Attached Link: http://www.fractalforum.com

This is an open call for you to submit your fractal artwork for consideration for inclusion in the Fractal Universe Calendar 2008. We would like to stress again this year that this is a commercial venture, and not a contest. The publisher will ultimately decide the final 13 images that will be included in the calendar. All the information you will need is detailed on the following website: http://www.fractalforum.com Please make your submissions and any additional enquires you may have via the contact form on the above website. This message has been posted to some of the fractal art mailing lists and forums. If you think it may be of interest to others please feel free to forward it, as it is written here, to other 'net sites where fractal artists meet to share and discuss fractals. Thanks and good luck! Linda Allison and Panny Brawley

A friend of mine actually bought me the 2006 calendar... nice, but the images all start to look a bit the same after a while... I've checked out the site listed above, and checked out the galleries posted of all of the calendars to date, and they all look the same too... UF spiral style... How about suggesting to the publishers that they spice it up a bit by mixing up the styles of the images some? Maybe even considering works done in applications other than UF? People seeing (and possibly buying) these calendars might start to think that the particular style presented every year is all that fractals are - and I think that's just sad - they are missing out on a whole world of different types of fractals, each with their own wonderful traits... ducks for cover T.

No need to duck for cover. As co-editors, Linda and I send images of all kinds, from as many different generators that we can recognize, and have, guess what! actually pointed out specific images that are not the "usual UF spiral" to the publisher. And the publisher prints what sells. It may look the same to you, but the Fractal Universe Calendar is a sell-out every year. That's the point. We are simply co-editors and facilitators. Do we want them to expand the style of the calendar? Yes. But I'm going to say this one more time, and then I'm off the topic. The Publisher prints what sells. It prints flower calendars that sell. It prints "car" calendars that sell. And it prints Fractal calendars that sell. My best advice is to emulate what sells. Panny

Attached Link: http://woosie.net/gallery2/index.php

So I suppose it would be pointless for me to submit any Apophysis works (or works made in other fractal programs) to be even considered for inclusion in any future Fractal Universe calendar? I think that is a real shame - and not really a true representation of the "fractal universe" at all...

But maybe my work is too "different" from what has been decided as what "sells"... how would they truly know unless they threw in the odd different styled image now and then? (or had a truly different selection of images to choose from?) Unless the selection process is more transparent, then how are we to really know who is actually choosing the style of images for inclusion in the calendar - only you and Linda know exactly what you are sending to the publisher for their consideration...

T.

The decision to submit artwork is of course, up to each artist. The more variety we have in submission content, the more variety can be sent to the publisher. If one reads the FAQ's page, flame fractals are specifically mentioned, and encouraged.

Ahhh - but therein lies the conundrum... Flame fractals generally do not look anything like the style of image so obviously preferred by whomever is doing the selecting of the images for the calendars - thus stand about 2 chances of being included... slim and none... regardless of having specific mention in the FAQ. ...and seeing as that seems to be the case, the calendar should have a name more befitting the style... something like "UF Spiral Universe" would fit somewhat better methinks. To my thinking, the name "Fractal Universe" is being misrepresentative when UF spirals are the only images being included "because they sell". Just out of curiosity, roughly how many flame fractals were submitted to last years call? and how many made the cut to be sent to the publisher for consideration? A rough estimate would be fine... ...and how many works of an ilk like Deagol's or Rykk's were submitted and/or made the cut to be sent to the publisher for consideration? (yes - I know that Deagol has had at least one image in one of the calendars - but it was exactly the same style as the rest - UF spiral - and we all know that he has many works that are spectactularly "better" than the basic spiral) It's the selection process and the refusal of you and Linda to reveal which works have actually been sent to the publisher that may raise some suspicion here... you are asking us to only take your word for it that you have submitted a wider variety of images/styles than what appears to be the selected "theme". What is actually stopping you from showing exactly what you have sent to the publishers? T.

Tracey, I'm not taking the bait.

Message edited on: 01/31/2006 22:43

Spoilsport... lol! Come on... the same questions come up every year... and the same excuses in response... Maybe if the process was a little more transparent, then the questions wouldn't be asked? So - there were approx 600 submissions for the call last year, and you and Linda culled those to 200 to send to the publisher to select 11 images from (you and Linda get at least one image included each for being facilitators) It would be really interesting for the rest of us to see the process in action - from all of the submissions made, down to the ones sent to the publisher, to the ones finally selected for inclusion in the actual calendar. The logistics of such an exercise are not really that great as you well know - not with the wealth of great gallery based software out there in the public domain, etc... it could be done fairly easily, and possibly stop the same questions happening every time you call for submissions for a new calendar... I'm not being totally unreasonable in asking these questions, am I? T.

I believe Panny just SAID that they have sent "...images of all kinds, from as many different generators that we can recognize..." Can you read??? I don't think you are right to be calling her a liar in not very thinly veiled, arch terms just because of some sour grapes you may have over the choices THE PRINT COMPANY has made in the past and I find this attitude detestable and crass and that you would air statements like that publicly a cheap form of grandstanding - trying to come off like one or another form of fractal art is "downtrodden" and it's "so unfair". Not to mention just plain "uncool" as we used to say. All Panny's doing here is turning us ALL on to a neat opportunity. Seems you hardly even post anything here and just like to surf around to a bunch of mail lists and forums and gab or try to drum up interest in your site. I'm not all that impressed with the images the printer selects for the calendar, either, and have never gotten one in it myself but I've never thought that the selection process was "rigged" in any way. I'm just not good at making images like those. I've tried for 3 years and probably never even "made the cut". There is a definite pattern to the "tastes" of the people who print that calendar that seems unchanging for every year they've made the thing. That's why they all "look the same". They are in BUSINESS fer cryin' out loud! Sheesh - same reason every band on the radio sounds like Alice in Chains, Pearl Jam or Limp Bizkit. Or why every female pop singer sounds like Brittany Spears or Madonna and LOOKS like them, too. It's a "tried and true" BUSINESS FORMULA that assures them they will make some money and they aren't about to go taking any chances. Typical corporate behavior. The Amber Lotus calendar folks are the same. They require that all 12 images have a "recurring" theme or they don't even want to talk to you. Does it show the "state of the art" in fractal art? No. Are the images selected stereotypical? Maybe, though they are colorful and neat and I've liked a lot of them. But those kinds of fractals have been proven to SELL and that's the ONLY reason they are printing the thing. We have absolutely no right to expect a corporation's selection process to be "transparent". It is a BUSINESS, not some egalatarian democracy or "Hot 12". You want to be in THEIR calendar? Well it's their show so you just have to "play 'em what they wanna hear...." I just haven't learned to play any of those "songs" worth beans, yet. lol And guess what? I guess I'm just a sucker but I've bought the thing every year since I first discovered it years ago. I'd buy Alice Kelley's too if it was sold at B&N. Just to see ANY fractals displayed like that is good enough for me.

Panny and Linda are completely above board. They are women of integrity. Panny as much as encouraged all of us to submit what the publishers ask for- based on the choices for previous years, preumably so we all have the best chance to have our images considered. Thank you, Panny. As she explained, she and Linda are co-editors and facilitators. Nothing more (except for great fractal artists). Potential purchasers (of the calendar) want to see characteristic fractals; from the publishers' experience over the years, that's what sells. It's up to us individually, through our own efforts..and in different arenas, to change the general perception of fractal art. And, IMO, it won't happen by displaying them in a calendar. That's akin to expecting Hallmark to market real poetry. Just my two cents.

I personally don't submit because I don't think any of my stuff is a good fit for that calendar. The style chosen is the publisher's choice, and they know what they are doing to make a successful product. That's not to say that other styles would never sell in a calendar or book, but that is for someone else to risk and find out. I do not hold that against them that my way of making pictures doesn't fit into the style they want and I would certainly not hold that against Panny and Linda. They were chosen to gather the images and guess what, that means they are also part of the reason for successful calendars year after year. So they are clearly choosing the right images.

Rykk, my sweet, these publishers would sell palletloads of calendars of ONLY your works - if they had the chance (or you had the inclination to approach them about it) I'm not actually calling Panny a "liar" in any real sense - although that is how you may read it - I am just asking that the process be made more transparent so that we may have a better understanding of how and why only the images appearing in the calendar get selected for inclusion. What is the point of calling for a wide range of submissions if there actually IS a certain formula that will be adhered to in the selection process? Why not just call for that particular theme and make the submission/selection process easier for all involved? - and maybe stop raising the hopes of those of us who will be precluded in any case for submitting images not related to that theme? T.

My best advice is to emulate what sells.<<< Good advise... And if that doesn't work, here's some more... "Publish your own calendar." WHEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!

I don't think that I'll get my hopes up and enter! I haven't even been able to win any of the regular monthly contest,it seemed as if the same people or programs are winning every month and since I don't like using that program and am not on very friendly terms with most of the ones that make the decisions or are in the winners circle all the time, there is no reason why I would even consider sending in an entry!

I saw that about flames in the FAQs. Don't try to talk sense into the publishers. They'll do whatever they damn well please. These calendars are sold next to Britney Spears and the Beefcake Firemen and it is pretty obvious that this is about marketing, not fine art. If you don't want to play, don't play. If you do choose to play, be smart and play the odds. Look at what the publishers publish and mimic that, at least on most of your images, and submit a few that are not typical of what has been published. If no one submits flames then no flames will ever be published, but don't put all of your eggs in one basket. As far as Panny and Linda's role in this goes, I could not be more confident in them. I know that they are fair and honest. There's no conspiracy against flames. A few weeks ago I had face to face conversion with Linda about the calendar. I am convinced that her intentions are pure and are focused on the good of the fractal community. (Believe me, I am holding back on what I really want to say to those who question her integrity and I think that Rick was way too nice) The publishers are focused on selling calendars. They are not concerned about the community or the current state of fractal art. Play or don't play, but leave Panny and Linda alone. It's none of your business how they conduct theirs. This isn't a democracy, it's a business. I have had 2 images on the cover and it was great fun. I don't feel like either image represented my best work. In fact, I hardly even like the one that was in last year's, but it was still fun. I'll never forget when I went to the bookstore and hung around the calendars to see how people reacted. I wasn't there long when a guy started looking at the calendar. I told him that I created the image that he was looking at. He bought the calendar and had me sign it. It was cool. By the way, I didn't make it in this year's or next. Get your hopes up. Everyone should submit images. My first image that made it was created when I was just starting with fractals. Beginners make it in. Keith

So why make an "open call" for submissions, if the whole point is to get works of a certain theme? Why not be totally open about it and state exactly what criteria will be considered for inclusion? Especially if the publishers are sticking to a certain formula in their selections... T.

Sorry Deagol - your reply got in while I was posting mine... lol! You and Rick definitely have a point - and I'm not trying to cast aspersions on the intergrity of Panny or Linda - however poorly I seem to have chosen my words... I'm just a pedantic cow who thinks that if a certain style is actually what is being looked for - then maybe the call should be placed that indicates such... not as an open call to all styles. It would also make Panny's and Linda's jobs easier in their selection process... lol! T.

So as Keith already said be smart and choiche a populair UF style with mapping work and cool textures Have seen all the calenders and it is indeed a very similiar style but really fine work and yes a lot of the same names have seen that also LOL However as you not play the game you can not win it Succes to all that upload a picture for me are the rules and final big size from 4200*4200pixels in tiff format to high :-) Cheers Arend

The open call has always meant to me that any Fractal Artist could submit images. Simply that, nothing more.

Of course the publishers will choose what they think will sell. I think Panny and Linda are doing a fine job facilitating this and getting the word out. It should NOT be a transparent process. This is a wonderful opportunity for Fractal Art. Please let's keep it civil, here, and help promote what opportunity we do have. Nick

ahum... Panny, the link of the 2006 calendar is the same as for the 2007 calendar ... FYI good luck everyone with creating an attractive theme have a nice day keep on smiling Harmen

I just looked at the images printed in the calenders for 2004 thru 2007 and I saw a great number of the images were done by the same bunch. Some artists had as many a 4 images for one year and some had 3 images. With all the talented artists here, why can't there be a limit to how many images a person can have in the final cut, let's say "ONE" for instance and for the judges who make the decissions for the finals not be allowed to enter. That is like "The Miss America Contest" being judged by two of the contestants or the President deciding who he wants to hold offices from VP all the way down to dog catcher.

Firstly the calendar is not a competition it's a commercial venture by a publisher who pays artists for the use of their images. If you read the information posted at the website 600 images were submitted by 67 artists worldwide for the last calendar. On average 9 images per artist. Of those 600 200 were selected (approx 3 per artist) and sent to the publisher. Linda and Panny are guaranteed at least 1 image each in the calendar for the amount of work they put into the venture. It's the publishers (who are not the co-ordinators) that select the remaining 11 images based on what they like and think will sell. Knowing the impeccable reputations of both ladies involved I would say that each artist that submits would have at least 2 images each in the final 200. If someone has 2, 3 or 4 images in the calendar or has been successful in a number of calendars over the years, good luck to them, they are obviously providing images that the publishers think will sell....quite simple when you think about it.

Attached Link: http://www.avalanchepub.com

i don't see what the big deal of it is, about this all, what you need to do to avoid all these missunderstandings, is to submit your designs directly to Avalanche Publishing, Inc. They have each year approx. 175 assorted calendars covering a wide variety of subjects. All that is found on their website. It is that Panny and Linda are codinating that for fractals, but you could also try to get your images submitted to them directly by the site off Avanlanche Publishing, Inc. Good luck *smile*

Harmen, For the Fractal Universe Calendar, Avalanche publishing specifically asks not to be contacted directly (that's why they have chosen Linda and me as editors for their fractal calendar). You can read about open submissions for other specific subjects here here: http://www.avalanchepub.com/2004/aboutus/submissions.htm It would be a terrible shame if your post led fractal artists to believe that images sent by individuals are being accepted in that category.

"TD" - sorry I went off last night. And thanks for the compliment on my art. I've known Panny online a long time and I just got riled at what I saw as an attack. No need to go any further. As to making the call for art say something like "these types of images have the best chance for acceptance" or something, well I think its pretty evident that they ARE looking for a certain type just by looking at all the past selections. This is the "stereotype" the publisher seems comfortable with and it seems even if they are shown them, images that are much different "scare" them. Even Alice Kelley's calendar has a lot of really bright primary colors. I figured this out pretty early on but, since that is not my natural style, try as I might I can't seem to make stuff very good like that. Probably because it is contrived rather than natural. I think we see here some of the compromises that a "working" artist would have to make in order to make a living at art. There's a lot of effort that has to be made making art that is sometimes un-natural to you and has to be forced. Some would maybe call it "selling out" but it's a job to working artists and when your living depends on it, SELLING is the operative word. Professionals. Shoot, I even played in one COUNTRY band in the 80's just to be doing something. Imagine THAT - Eddie Van-Tillis! lol Only one band I played with actually did the high energy, progressive stuff like Kansas, Yes and Def Leppard that I REALLY wanted to play. Anyhow, I think it's ok that Panny and Linda get a guaranteed image or two in the calendar. Probably a good bit of WORK involved collating and winnowing down the "quarter-final" selections and its right they be rewarded/paid SOMETHING for all the hassle. Not to mention the cojones(or whatever women have that is equivalent lol) it took for Linda and Tina to carve out the deal for all of us fractallists in the first place. And the images always remind me of what hooked me about fractals in the very first place. That calendar is pretty prominent and its SO cool to see it bright and bold as love and just demanding attention......'specially if Joie thinks I'm looking at the Brittny calendars next to it, something I'd, of course NEVER do....Honest, hon....lol

I echo the same assumption Rykk that your fractal is far superior to what they select as Deagols. maybe there is room for another group to submitt. I am sure there is more than one calendar company

I am sorry Panny, but what you said is not anywhere to be found on the website and as far as i have seen your submissions are from mostly your kind of fractals, and so your category, i don't mess with =D They encourage the submission of any work that is new and different from calendars already available in the market. So if artists and photographers do have an other theme which isn't on the market yet, they are free to submit their work to Avalanche Publishing. Like my designs are seen as digital paintings, [or here in Holland as 'surreal anime art' wonders how they get that idea] not as fractals, so if i can send them 40 images to publish a digital painted calendar in my category, i am free to do so. You do your work very well as artists and as coordinators for your UF, FE category, but i can be quite sure that Avalanche Publishing wouldn't refuse any new extra-ordinary artworks to make a new calendar. I am a fulltime artist, and i make a living out of what people in Europe pay for my work. For me it is good advertising to have my work published in a calendar distributed by Avalanche Publishing, which will spread around the rest of the world. Hope that clarifies my intentions of previous message. Good day Harmen

Of course you are free to submit your own 40 images for a "new and different' calendar. What I was trying to clarify is that images submitted for the Fractal Universe Calendar should go through the proper submission process as outlined above. Panny

Look people. Quite whining about the contents of the Fractal Universe calendar and the submission process. I participated in the past, and had two images selected for the 2003 calendar. I don't create images of the quality of many of the people here, but I was fortunate enough to be selected. So might you, if you choose to participate. If you don't, then you have no chance of having images selected whether your conform to the "style" or not.

If you want to make your own calendar, of your own unique style, then go to www.lulu.com and publish it yourself. Then, you can get a taste of the process, including marketing. You can even make some money. It might just give you a different perspective on the whole matter.

Ken...

Some interesting points made whilst I was at work/asleep... Approaching the publishers with a new pitch or bunch of submissions is a possibility - as is self-publishing... Then there is a challenge in attempting to make other fractal applications create something of the style so obviously preferred for this particular calendar series... I think I came close last night - but I'll keep experimenting... hehe! Panny - I would like to extend my sincere apologies for appearing to attack your integrity... that was not exactly my aim, I must choose my words better... Rykk - you and I may not see eye to eye on many topics - but man, your work freaking well blows me away every time! I'd love to see a calendar devoted to just your images - THAT would be amazing! Many points have been brought up here about the style and number of images certain people tend to have in each calendar - those may be well worth taking into consideration when/if we submit images to such a venture also... T.

Ermm - just a small comment, anyone who knows how to use Apophysis (or any IFS/RIFS/flame program) properly should have no problem using it to produce a similar style images to those preferred by Avalanche :-).

(Also now ducking for cover)

Message edited on: 02/04/2006 17:40

Having said the above I should add that I also believe that as much as possible should be done to encourage Avalanche to extend their style limits somewhat - after all most of my own best UF work is nothing like the "required" style - as goes for say the best work of Rykk and Deagol and ....

I only just noticed all the replies to this thread.

I'd just like to add my support to Panny & Linda with regards to this submission process. The process was contractually agreed with Avalanche Publishing, Linda and myself back in 2001, and although Panny has now taken my place as co-editor it remains as it has been for the last five years.

It's a process that works well, and which the publisher is happy with.

It is written into the contract that at least one image from each co-editor is included in the calendar in recognition for their work in this process, for which they are not otherwise paid.

Sometimes the publisher chooses more than one image from an indivdual artist - as is the publisher's right to do so.

Panny and Linda both have the utmost integrity and I trust them implicitly to carry out the process in a fair and appropriate manner.

It's true that the publisher chooses not to vary the style of the calendar very much from year to year - but that is not for a lack of trying on the co-editors part - it's just that Avalanche are in the business of making money, and they succeed in that business because they sell what the market wants to buy...

Please remember ...

This whole exercise is not a competition or contest to find the "best fractal" or the "best artist" or the "best fractal software" - it is an editing process for a professional commercial venture.

Good luck to everyone who chooses to submit their work :-)

Tina

Tracey wrote:

"So I suppose it would be pointless for me to submit any Apophysis works (or works made in other fractal programs) to be even considered for inclusion in any future Fractal Universe calendar? I think that is a real shame - and not really a true representation of the "fractal universe" at all..."

Noone involved with editing the calendar has suggested anything of the kind. It's already been pointed out that fractal art of all types are welcomed in the submission process, and this is stated very clearly on the website.

My personal answer to you would be:

If you like the calendar and you think your work would look good in it, then try your luck and submit it. If you are successful give yourself a pat on the back and enjoy the $200, if you're not - well never mind, move on - you'll be in good company!

If you don't like the calendar and / or what it represents then don't submit your work - there are plenty of other opportunities out there for artists to make money - just go out there and find them!

Tina