IMHO it's very reactionary. And....that email is like a brand new Ford Mustang with a 4 cyl under the hood.
I am reffering to a recent thread on the Daz forums regarding CP Passport, if you read the text of the email, it seems CP is gaining traction and they've noticed. That thing was a joke last winter...

The thing for me is that I've been making Poser stuff for a long time and anymore it's difficult to select projects. I won't do anything half way and I really like to see a return on my time. I've always supported the Mil figures (as well as the CL stuff here and there), however as prices drop and more people decide to make content, the incentive to do so wanes, not just for me but for any merchant that is really proud of quality work.
Why should I support a DAZ figure if I can only sell an item for low dollar and have to compete with DAZ for the limited amount of $$ users have
and then on top of that watch them drive prices down.

I also buy a LOT of content. I have to tell you, that I think that this type of thing is bad. Yes the price goes down, but the incentive for a creator to spend that extra few hours putting the final touches on something will also go down. So hence, lower prices, lower quality. I thought V1 was worth $99 and so is v3 and Miki is worth $49. Yes it was difficult for me to find the cash to purchase her at the time so I understand that aspect and I understand DAZ wanting to fight for it's grip on the market.
An incredible amount of effort can go into something like Vicky or Miki.

They(DAZ) seem to be moving towards the Wall Mart model of "buy more crap from us that you don't need 'cause it's real cheap". I hope that's not the case. I want to see them as the leaders they claim to be set fair pricing for unique, quality products. I want to see this from everyone. DNA, CP, DAZ, here on Renderosity, whoever.

Any thoughts? I'll take my answer of the air.

Cheers!
Pat

Interesting. It never occurred to me that this sale was a reaction to Passport/CP. Could be - market share matters in Poserdom.

DAZ does seem to be moving toward a mass market kind of model. Which isn't all bad. They are bringing in new customers with their free D|S program, and many of them go on to buy Poser content (and even Poser itself) at other sites.

That does mean lower prices. But it's not necessarily a bad thing, if you make it up in volume. And I think they are. I heard they sold 10,000 copies of some of their March Madness items. And they keep doing it, so I suspect they aren't losing money at it.

Prices are getting lower, but I don't think DAZ is really to blame. There are just too many people who are making and selling Poser content, and many of them are not doing it for a living. It's a hobby. They have day jobs. So they can afford to price their stuff really low.

I worry about the the bargain basement approach as well.

Yup 8-(

I kinda view it as "loss-leader" strategy rather than "bargain basement". For instance, I'm definitely going to move on a DAZ Original I've been wanting: the "Captain's Uniform" for A3, at a deep discount, but then inevitably purchase renapd's "Around the Clock" texture set at full price...and perhaps even pay full-price for DAZ's Clothing Converter utility so that I can get V3 into it. DAZ is definitely pursuing a multi-prong model: 1) loss-leading where it makes sense (i.e. base models), 2) volume pricing where it makes sense (i.e. Platinum), and 3) getting early adopters to buy those truely exquisite creations at full-price. My take, michael

Y'know, I'd agree that the price discount could be bad for quality.. Unfortuantely, I'd have to say that in general a large number of the items I bought from DAZ were NOT quality and NOT worth the price I paid for them (bad mesh, poor textures, no morphs, etc).. Some stuff has been decent and is well worth it.. But for the most part DAZ has always seemed rather over-priced.. And to add insult to injury, I often find that 2 months after I buy something, they are giving it away for free with some magazine - not cool.. Needless to say, I don't buy much from them anymore.. And seeing that they can drop prices by 30-80% and consider making it PERMANENT just confirms the fact that they were grossly over-priced to begin with.. I think they would have been much better served marketing quality items and done something to encourage customer loyalty..

I think they (DAZ) is trying to reafirm its place in the market. There are a lot of different sites in competition with them PoserPros & Content Paradise come to mind off hand. But then there are the former brokered artists that have jumped ship and begun to do things on their own. Has anyone else noticed the amount of freebies here slowly beginning to dry out? When I first found Renderosity years ago, I checked back every chance I could because there were more things being added what seemed like every hour. In my favorites folder, I had list upon list of other sites with different freebies then what were shared here. 90% or more of those sites have gone the way of the original Poser characters .. they are no more. Everyone talented enough to be able to build good quality items, has a store. And, as sad as it is to say, so are some of the less then talented modelers as well. I spend a lot of time "window shopping" here in the marketplace and at Daz because I can't cough up the cash for a 25 plus dollar model that I may only use once. Heck, even $7 for that model can be hard to justify. Perhaps the people at DAZ figure more sales + lower prices = higher profit. I can't speak for them, but in the business world - its always about YOUR bottom line. Just a thought.

Poser Pros doesn't fit in as competition ... DAZ owns it.

With all due respect, Mizrael, I did caution you the content creator was still learning the nuances of character rigging. I'd much rather have someone like Little Dragon or Ajax installing the "bones". They would have rigged the arms with ERC so they could be bent serpentine fashion. My praise was exclusively for the accuracy of the detail. Besides, the only way I could recreate the "dislocation" depicted was by using the "twist" control upon the actual figure. I stopped using that tool a week after I bought Poser and have since used the dials exclusively. One has far more control. Sincerely, Bill

I think it's like this: Everyone who was going to buy a DAZ original product has already bought it before now. Therefore, to increase sales of DAZ originals, they lower the price so people who haven't already bought will pick it up. I bet the DAZ original products have already paid for themselves, so this is pure profit now. Thus the reason they can lower the price. I would think you have to sell huge volumns to do something like that. I don't think there are DAZ originals left that I wanted that I haven't gotten, but maybe some things I was luke warm about, I might be tempted to get. I don't think there's any indictation for a reason of the sale. Last year was March Madness. So maybe this is the 2006 gimmick. shrug bB

Lower prices--Who wants that? I want to mortgage the house to buy Poser content! Seriously, I prefer low prices to high prices. I can understand that being a problem for content creators competing with DAZ, but it's what I, as a customer, want. If crap is being sold cheaply, it's still crap and I won't buy it. This new sale hardly emptied my wishlist even of DAZ originals because a lot of stuff didn't get dropped more than 30% and there's better sales than that a couple times a year. I did find a lot of other stuff at 70%-80% off that was worth picking up.

Yes you did Bill, however, the creator on his site was claiming "Professional" quality on his website in another thread where he was discussing methods of accepting cash for his works. He may or may not have been talking about the B9 at that point but read in conjunction with his thread about the B9 model I took it to mean he considered that model of professional quality since he was only releasing it if people paid a donation for it.

...I'd make an awful Poser content merchant. First guy to email me complaining that 'the shine on Aikos belt isn't quite right' would generate a response from me along the lines of: "Hey. Wudda ya expect, bub? It only cost ten bucks." hehehe. Anyway, I admire the people who make and sell Poser stuff, whether they be pro or hobbyist. You must be a patient lot, both while you're making your products as well as after they're sold.

I was curious about that B9 as well.. when I saw the price, I figured I'd stick with the freebie version. Same thing as the Chariot here.. if they were reasonably priced, I'd have gotten them.

Oh! As to the Daz thing, I think they've been around for so long that a lot of the vintage products have already paid for themselves.. they are trying to increase the number of poser users, so why not take advantage of all that old content, and make it available to "hook" new users? I'm MUCH rather see the old stuff clearance priced, then just see it discontinued, and no longer available.

I have what I wanted, and there's nothing in that sale that attracts me. Besides: the argument: buy a lot so things stay cheap tells nothing about the quality. And what I do would like to have isn't discounted. Yet. But it may come, so I'll wait...

I'm thinking the Big DAZ Sale might have something to do with the upcoming release of V4. Demand for the V3 stuff will drop dramatically after V4 is released, and maybe this is their way of making some extra money off the V3 content while they still can.

Don't get me wrong, Tony's B9 mesh is much more accurate than the freebie version's I've got. However there is still work that needs to be done to make the "Poserisation" of it "Professional" quality. He is taking all suggestions on improving that to heart as far as I can tell from the succesive updated CR2's he's released in the past 24 hours so I don't fault him for that either. I'm fairly certain it'll all work out in the end, whether he fixes it or I figure out how to fix it myself.

I think they should lower the prices of older items. It's bizarre that some of their older models are so much more expensive than newer and better ones.

But some fairly new items are also on sale, with steep discounts. I suspect they are items that aren't selling. You don't see 80% off on items that are still hot, like Aiko's sailor suit.

It's about time the prices drop.... the price should reflect the quality and that has dropped at DAZ a lot compared to over a year ago. I've returned most of the products a bought lately due to serious lack of quality compared to the price I payed for it. I have yet to complain about an item bought at CP, you can easily distinguish the good stuff from the less good stuff, so it easy to know what to buy or not. Also CP's prices do reflect the quality of the products much better.

Well THAT didn't take long.. LOL!

Someone mentioned freebies and there being less of them. While that may be true the quality seems much improved and not just here. This would also impact users willingness to pay $ for sometimes inferior product. Quality at good prices usually wins in the end.

"I'm thinking the Big DAZ Sale might have something to do with the upcoming release of V4. "

I agree although I hadn't realized it. This would be typical for sales anywhere in probably most industries. So you can't fault them on that. I'm not sure I need or want a V4 but can't imagine not getting her. I like Miki aside from a lack of poseabilty. I think because she's cute and just different. If you look at the CP featured image she's pretty sweet. Olivier does some nice stuff with her too. Fresh is always good for me. Jessi was too much for my taste. I'm anxious to see the new EF character in hopes they've learned a lot from previous releases. If you look at CP now it's pretty much all Miki on the front page and they've gotten behind her 110%. Unlike Jessi. So we'll see what happens with the two new character releases(V4 and EF?). I know this will be good for everyone, content creaters and users alike.
Ok sorry for the tangent.

'I've returned most of the products a bought lately due to serious lack of quality compared to the price I payed for it' Aeilkema, Considering that you you take every opportunity you can get to take a swipe at DAZ, and put other people off going there, I'm shocked that you buy anything from them at all. mac

I don't think I have ever heard even Wal*Mart use a Sales Pitch quite like Daz is doing.

This price reduction can only be maintained by an increase in overall purchases.
The more people you help become aware of DAZ, the greater success this new pricing strategy will enjoy.
Show Us How Much You Want These Prices to Stay - Place an Order Today!

Sounds like a Ronco, Popiel or Carney Barker pitch to me.

You and your friends come spend loads of money at Daz and we will keep the prices down. And Hurry, because this sale may not last long.

There isn't anything new On Sale. I made my mind up the first time those products were offered at the Introductory Price.
Sounds like a Clearance Sale.

I spend my money at CP these days.
With the CP Store links to Rosity, RDNA and other Merchants, everyone gets a piece of the cash pie.

This also allows me to use my CP Passport Coupons on a wider variety of products. By going to CP, I can shop from many Merchants in one location, not simply what Daz wants me to buy.

Cheers
DR

Message edited on: 02/17/2006 19:14

Two reasons to part with my money:

1. As investment in a work of art;
2. As consumption expense for a piece of consumer good.

I would pay price premium for (1), and grab discount for (2).

If the product is exquisitely crafted and of utterly no use to my art projects but I want it for whenever, simply to admire it, yes, I would spend in the case of (1).

If the product is cheap and good, more bang for the buck, and boy do I need it for a project, yes indeed (2) is very good.

In times of severe budget constraint, behaviour (1) is not activated. Also in times of severe budget constraint, I would scrutinse if the unbelievable discount is justifiable for behaviour (2). In my case, that is.

Message edited on: 02/17/2006 20:18

I do not think it has anything to do with V4 specifically. If you look at the discounts, it appears the slower selling stuff has the deeper cuts. Stuff for V3 is some of the least discounted items. As far as quality from site to site and recent releases... the newer stuff is not as deeply discounted as much as the older stuff, so I think this is sort of generate income on slow moving items type of sale. On quality at other sites... some sites sell from many sites, some only sell stuff from their site, and some do both. If you look at the actual original items for those that do both you will see many issues that have yet to be resolved, so to say that is better quality or not is kind of pushing it. Some people just do not like site A or site B. That is okay. It does not mean site C that you spend all your money at is the best thing since sliced bread, it just means you really like site C and hate Site A.

Sheesh, why do so many think that every move DAZ makes is part of a great Poser-content conspiracy? I always find it interesting that those criticising DAZ rarely have a legitimate complaint, they're usually just mad because someone hasn't responded to their complaint in the last hour, or the product didn't come with MATs implementing Faceoff's Realskin shaders, or they're just DAZ-bashing CL fanboys like Aeilkema. It's a sale, period. If you see something you like, buy it. If not, go spend your money at Content Paradise...quietly, if you don't mind. >:) SnowS

Yep, I agree.. I see both good and not so good items everywhere I look. Plus, since every store has a mix of many artists, quality, value and style are going to vary a lot at each store location. I think it's just a move to have more people regularly shopping at Daz.. and that's something every single store is always striving for.

Over at DAZ, there's someone who thinks this sale is an evil plot to foist content on us that won't work when Windows Vista is released.

I don't understand the paranoia. DAZ regularly has sales, and regularly changes the kind of sales they have. Last year it was March Madness. This year it's this. (Alas, they seem to have given up on 99 cent sales.)

DAZ seems to be quite happy with the sales so far. I've got several things in my cart, though I probably won't buy until tomorrow. (Buying on Friday night is too much of a pain.) It's gotten to the point that I have to really, really like something at DAZ before I buy it at the introductory price, because I know they will eventually offer it for 80% off, if not as a freebie. (At least if it's a DAZ original.) So there are several items on my wishlist that are on sale.

I got irritated with daz a long time ago after buying a few items that I didnt know had poor compatibility with P5. I didnt know anything about their we dont support P5 stance at the time. I thought then, as I do now, that it was a cheezy way to do business to not have that policy clearly stated instead of buried under a slew of links somewhere. Ive run a successful business for a long time without having to do that kind of thing. Another example: I tried twice to buy some low rez version of one iteration or the other of Vicki a year or two ago. Spent quite some time going through the shopping channel maze of links and never did find the product (which I would have bought at the time). Im a busy guy as Im sure most of you are. I dont have time to watch the equivalent of an infomercial when I know exactly what Im after. Another example: I recently needed to identify the file name of a daz product in order to reinstall only that product after getting P6. A search on that product yielded 260ish results, most of which had nothing to do with the search term back to the daz shopping channel. I could name several more examples, but I think this is enough. The point is, you can rest assured that anyone who doesnt like to shop at daz almost certainly has a sound reason, or perhaps many.

As a DAZ Platinum Club member, I used to find myself trawling through the DAZ Originals section on a monthly basis, trying to find something to spend my $5 voucher on. I used to look at the older animal models. I would like to possess them all, but not at the ridiculous prices being charged. These models are on a level with the Poser 4 stuff; low to medium poly and planar mapped, with that nasty texture stretching across the midline. I only want them as background filler, and I can't understand why the prices haven't been reduced as techniques and production standards have advanced. I used to wonder if there was some cynical marketing reason - either to soak up the vouchers, or so that when they put them in bundles they could trumpet how much we were saving...

This sale, which "may be permanent", is a step in the right direction, but for some of the more elderly models it might still not be reduction enough.

Tunesy..no offence but what you've cited is applicable across most of the stores,especially the search function. SS>"Sheesh, why do so many think that every move DAZ makes is part of a great Poser-content conspiracy?" quoted for agreement, some people don't buy from Daz but they still take every opportunity to whine about them :(

-shrug-

"they're just DAZ-bashing CL fanboys" ...talk about the pot calling the kettle black... Don't misunderstand though. 2 of the 3 examples I cited are simply marketing decisions on daz part. I'm sure at least some of the various shopping channels on cable these days are very profitable, although I wouldn't give any of them more than 10 seconds of my time. I'm just not one of those people you'll see dancing around in glee because I got a free set of steak knives with my brand new air purifier. Nothing wrong with the business model if it works, but it should be expected that a lot of people will avoid it.

"...talk about the pot calling the kettle black..." There's a difference, I don't bash companies that I don't care for and I don't necessarily agree with everything DAZ does. It so happens that I DO agree with most of what they do, so I probably do come across as being a loyal supporter. SnowS

Well I didn't intent to "bash" either however I do think that the content is being devalued by such things. Having a day to think about it now know what really miffed me was the wording in the email about the sale, again it seemed really reactionary to the Passport threads and what CP is doing and I feel that they're possibly going to cut into my livelyhood and that of other creators just to make a buck! If that's bashing then so be it. I have also "bashed" Cl for Mikis bending and fair is fair, however I post very little and I'm sorry snowsultan but I have an opinion that I stated much more diplomatically than you stated yours and as far as I know have not violated any TOS and have opened up a fairly worthwhile discussion for anyone who has an interesst in Poser merchandise from just about any point of view.

...I didn't bash them either. I simply related 3 irritating experiences I had with them. You think maybe I should polish up those annoying experiences so they sound better to daz?

Grandpuba, I was not referring to you as having bashed any company, sorry if it sounded that way. As for Tunesy, of course if you have a legitimate complaint, you don't need to polish it up. My complaints are with those who seem to think that DAZ is always up to no good, regardless of what they do. Again, my apologies if either of you thought I was simply attacking anyone who badmouths DAZ. SnowS

I could relate a couple of irritating experiences with CP, I just don't feel the need to do so.

This is the only community (Poser) I know of that cries, bitches, whines and moans about the price of something being cheaper, (not anyone in particular, just in general, although this thread seems to be pretty evenly matched).

DAZ has a big sale similar to this every year. Even brick and mortars have sales and drop the price on old stock. It's common business practice. Several times on these boards I've seen merchants drop the price of older items permanently, (even their entire stores), I didn't see anyone bitching about them.

No one is forcing anyone to buy something from them. Don't like it, don't buy it, don't bitch.

I buy from a lot of different places, here, Daz, RDNA, PoserPros, 3D Commune, etc. I also buy from a lot of independents, Xurge3D, Polymage, 3DMenagerie, Curiography, Sixus1, Vista Internet, etc. If I see something I want or need, I buy it, it doesn't matter where it is.

"And seeing that they can drop prices by 30-80% and consider making it PERMANENT just confirms the fact that they were grossly over-priced to begin with.." No, it means it's generally older items and/or items that haven't been selling well.

Welcome to the world of business.

Coldrake

I think they would have been much better served >> marketing quality items and done something to >> encourage customer loyalty. I'm afraid DAZ's attempts to buy loyalty remind me of the girl with a "special spirit" (code for Oreo-enhanced bum) who puts out because she thinks it will get your attention. When the spirit is unwilling, the flesh is irrelevant. M

RE: I buy from a lot of different places, here, Daz, RDNA, PoserPros, 3D Commune, etc. I also buy from a lot of independents, Xurge3D, Polymage, 3DMenagerie, Curiography, Sixus1, Vista Internet, etc. If I see something I want or need, I buy it, it doesn't matter where it is. Bet it's the only place that the announcement comes across as a ThreatPromise though. Comes right out and says, If you don't buy enough or don't invite friends to come buy and increase our sales, we will stop this sale on 15 March. Just don't think I have ever seen anyone with and add quite like that one. Cheers DR

*And seeing that they can drop prices by 30-80% and consider making it PERMANENT just confirms the fact that they were grossly over-priced to begin with.." No, it means it's generally older items and/or items that haven't been selling well.

Welcome to the world of business.

Coldrake*

You would be correct if it were selected older items only..... that isn't the case at DAZ at all, they've dropped all of the DAZ original prices, also the newest items. So, I do agree with the statement "confirms the fact that they were grossly over-priced to begin with...." It could also mean that they're loosing customers to other places and finally we will see some real competition between the business, it is really needed. The price is kept high due to lack of competition. So keep on going CP & RDNA and others. Keep bringing us more and more good quality low priced items! Message edited on: 02/18/2006 08:41

I pop in and out of the poserverse as other projects permit - so I have a sort of "strobe light" look at the place. I notice changes I might not see if I were in it every day. The quality overall at Daz isn't great - and it used to be. There was a time when something you bought from Daz would be spot on. It was, really, the REASON to stay Daz only. You know it would work, you know all the morphs would match and so on. Thats not true anymore. Daz's decision to seperate itself from the Poser mainstream was a bad one... and it is only getting worse. They are fairly marginal now. They only support their own figures, and most of those are irrelevant as far as the market goes. V3 is still important as is A3 and M3 to an extent. But where they used to stand alone we now have Apollo (a M3 killer), Terai and Mikki. Daz is outside the Poser market now, instead of defining it. Content Paradise has always had the potential to shake up the Poser content world... a single source store was always a great idea. Even back when people laughed at the idea :) Honestly if it wasn't for how much I like A3 I would probably write Daz off, switch to Terai Yuki (I think Mikki is seriously ugly) and be done with it. The only reason I look at V3 these days is the stuff As Shanim is doing with her - but honestly since the demo figure isn't released for sale its pointless.

"(I think Mikki is seriously ugly)"

To each his own I guess.

:)

I do agree that DAZ used to define market, but they have stepped outside of it. Very well put. CP may be very well poised to be the next defining entity. I guess we'll have to see what they can do with their fair to midland start.

I must be a simpleton. I see a sale, and celebrate. That's it for me.

Attached Link: http://www.shopwicked.com

Man I recognise that robot as one of my creatons I put out a long time agoe as a freebie..... the one on the lkeft is mine because i messed up on the dome and made the feet too wide, i shared this file with jafo, I would really like to know how it got to Daz for sale....

sigh

Oh, brother.......here we go yet again.

Look -- it's been said before, and it bears saying again (perhaps some will actually HEAR it this time, although that's not likely):

If you don't like DAZ, then don't shop there.

Speaking for myself, I intend to keep right on shopping there --- and I feel safe in saying that outside of a very vocal (and very small) minority -- the vast MAJORITY of Poser users will keep right on shopping there, too. In the face of anyone else's incessant complaining to the contrary.

Now, if DAZ were to ever drop their Poser support in favor of D|S only, then they'd lose me as a customer. But I don't see any signs of such a thing happening: so I'm not particularly worried about it.

CP looks to be beginning to come into it's own in this market. Good for them. I'm inclining more and more in their direction. But that doesn't mean that I intend to abandon DAZ. Far from it. It simply means that I'll be buying from BOTH places.

I've never understood this deep-seated need that some seem to have to always be choosing up sides & then going to total war against THE ENEMY (insert dramatic drum roll here) -- whether the issue involved be over websites or over specific 3D product stores.

Whenever given individuals constantly take whacks at something: then it tells me that they've got some sort of an axe to grind. An ulterior motive. Pure and simple. If they want to hate DAZ (for whatever reason), then have at it. But I grow tired of the on-going attempts to proselytize & convert others over into the same form of bitterness. If someone chooses to define their presence in this community by what they utterly despise -- then do so. But you can count me out. I'd rather be defined by what I support.

And I support DAZ. And Renderosity. And Poserworld. And RDNA. And 3DCommune. And Poserpros. And Faerie Dreams. And CP. And.......whoever and whatever contributes to this community.

shrug But that's just me. Others are free to despise whomever and whatever they choose to despise.

Just keep in mind that in life: you tend to get what you give.

Thanks for putting on a nice sale for us, DAZ. I'll be sure to drop by and purchase something today.

Merely on general principles......although that latest character for V3 from HandspanStudios & Thorneworks has definitely caught my attention.

I don't dislike DAZ i dislike some peep putting my robot I made in truspace out for sale...