I have spent a lot of time and effort trying to make origenal meshes for poser figures in Wings 3d and every time I do, an 'invisible' figure appears in Poser ... I finally know why - Wings 3d does not have a proper implimentation of groups and Poser uses the group info to interprete the obj file when creating a figure. Well, this leaves me the ability to create MTs and to make new figures in that manner but it doesn't allow me to create totally origenal figures [which is what I'd like to be doing] so I was wondering if anyone knows of a way to work around this. I wasn't sure if I should ask in the Poser forum or the Wings forum, but since Wings itself does not have any way to add groups [well, it does, but not in standard format and therefore only useful within the Wings environment itself] and figured that if there is a solution it would not be with Wings but rather with something else. And so I'm asking here if anyone knows how to deal with this. One thing I thought of trying was to make the mesh and then import each obj [hip, abdomin, etc, etc] as a prop and use "replace body part with prop" as a sort of limited way to assemble a figure since that way it doesn't matter that there are no groups - however, when I tried that I discovered that although it works, the parts remain listed as props, which leads to a working but very messy figure in which each part of the body is found not in the normal location but rather in the props section mixed together with all the other props. Now if I could get Poser to record my "Right_hand prop" as the "right hand" that would work for most figures I might do [as long as an existing figure has the same basic layout of parts]. Anyway, if you know of a way around all this, I'd love to hear it. I thought of getting the free version of Maya and see if I could use that - sadly, I cannot since I run Windows 98SE and you need either 2000 or XP to run Maya, but if there is another program that can export wavefront object WITH valid groups, then this would solve my dilema ... even if the program is a crappy editor, I could work in Wings, export the obj and just fix the groups in the other program.

You could try assigning groups in UVMapper or LithUnwrap. For that matter, you could use Poser's grouping tool. I use Ultimate Unwrap 3D for grouping, myself.

Why not cut the mesh in groups and then select all the groups and "export as selected." Do this in Wings.

Then you can import that mesh into poser, use the setup room to rig. Look for Geeps setup room tutorial.

Also, why not try the Wings forum where there are the Wings users. Edit to say that's what the "Loop cut," can do for you.

Message edited on: 03/08/2006 17:44

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=2543093

I don't know if this is useful to you - materials assigned to a model in Wings3d show up in poser correctly. Would that help? I'm in the process of creating something for poser so I'd like to know myself. Although I think I'l be starting with dynamic clothing and smart props before going anywhere near complete characters.

I've made poser fgures in wings. I start the groups as materials in wings, then I assign them as groups in UVmapper and reset the materials have had no trouble whatsoever in poserising the resulting obj

"an 'invisible' figure appears in Poser" Just remember that Poser has a limit of 13 characters on a group name in a figure. f your groups have more characters than this in the name, they will be invisible in Poser.

"free version of Maya and see if I could use that" I forgot. The free version of Maya is export restricted. The program will not let you export in a format useable in Poser.

ah..didn't know that. I thought there was a Maya demo, but it was time-restricted (but I could be wrong..I have way too many demos to look at..;)
I didn't know Maya wouldn't run in 98. You're a few OS's back there..what version of Poser are you using? The later the version, the (I preseume) the easier the 'boning'..
Usually If you're just doing morphs, you can export the body part you want, and manipulate it there (I'm at the 'baby steps' part of this..;), then bring it back in as a morph target. Dr. Geep (this is getting silly) has a morph tutorial using Wings and Poser.
not much help here, but good luck anyway..

Attached Link: http://www.quinlor.de/tutorials/

Firemonkey Don't give up on Wings, it's close to being the best modeller for Poser unless you're prepared to spend thousands. Basically you need to ignore "groups" (as listed in the Select menu) in Wings and use "Bodies" (as listed in your geometry graph). You know how if you cut a cube in half you get one piece called "cube1" and another called "cube1_cut2"? Those become your groups in Poser. Rename them to "head" and "neck" or whatever and off you go. Start with something really, really simple, like a cube cut into 3 segments and make a simple figure with that. That way you won't waste so much time going down blind alleys while you grasp the process. Then once you understand it, applying it to a complex figure isn't a big step. I've just had a quick peep at quinlor's tuts - looks like some excellent advice, it should get you on the right track in no time. I never use UVmapper these days, everything you need for the job is inside Wings. Ob

First I'd like to thank everyone for responding - lots of things to think on. Let's see - Little Dragon: assigning groups in UVMapper sounds like a good idea ... a bit tedious perhaps given the number of things that might need to be grouped together and assigned but hey, who ever said making meshes for figures would be all quick and easy [grin] As for using Poser's grouping tool - I find that to be almost unusable, certainly not any good for precise work. Now perhaps that has changed with later versions, but I have Poser Artist and in that I have found the grouping tool to be clumsy at best. beryld: Exporting as a collection of groups might work except that Poser Artist has no setup room to do the rig - still, if I do it by creating a .PHI file and using Convert Hier File it might work. Have to try that to know for sure but that would be the way to go for unique figures I suspect. As for posting in the Wings forum, as I said, I debated where to seek help but felt in this case the answer was more Poser related than Wings - the problem comes from a Wings 3D limitation but since there is no way to make Wings create standard groups in an .OBJ file, there is no Wings solution. So yes, others who use Wings might have answers, but they like me would be people likely to be in the Poser forum as well so it seemed like the best spot to seek help in this case. richardson: sounds good, but sadly Poser Artist doesn't have python support - I wish it did! anastasis: Using materials as a way to "define" groups? At least that's what it sounds like you are suggesting anastasis ... hmmm, well, certainly I could keep track of stuff that way but this would lead to lots of redundent materials. But yes, materials get translated fine, however it is groups that are needed to do figures. Now props are no problem, clothing is normally done as figures so that would have the same problem I have been dealing with. Lyrra: Ok, so you use the idea of defining matterials to fit the groups.... one question, I'm unclear as to what you mean by "reset the matterials", well, ok, I understand what the words mean just not how one does that. Is there a feature in UVMapper for resetting materials? Helgard: For some time I thought my problem was invalid group names and so I was careful to make sure each name was correct but it didn't help - turned out that Wings wasn't exporting group names in the standard format and so Poser was unable to read any group names at all. pakled: Yep, a few OSes back and staying there as long as possible. I don't trust Microsoft and have no interest in upgrading to their latestest ... personal view. As for Poser, I use Poser Artist - not a question of not wanting to upgrade, just can't afford to upgrade [also not sure if the latest Poser will run on 98SE or not] Using morphs is what I've been stuck with since I couldn't get an origenal mesh to work - that's what I'm trying to change [heh] quinlor: I'll check out the tutorials - thanks. obm: Actually I like Wings mostly and you can't argue with the price [grin] it would be nice if they could fix the grouping issue and stick with industry standard format and there are a couple features I'd like to see added but I use Wings a lot for Poser work - wonderful for doing MTs and props, etc, just been a bit of a pain with creating origenal figures [well, I have no problem creating the meshes - just getting Poser to read the .OBJ file correctly and it seems I have several options to try for that now] Actually I'm almost done a set of figures that are built using MTs and hopefully with this info I can do the next set as 100% origenal meshes rather than modifying existing meshes. I just wish I had realized what the problem was a while back becaue if I had then this set would have been 100% origenal rather than being built out of MTs.

"Poser Artist has no setup room to do the rig..." I have to object to this. I've been rigging for years without either Setup Room or Phi Builder. For simple figures, Spawn Props then Heirachy Editor. For conforming clothing, Donor cr2 to a Text Editor (then clean up with Joint Editor). A text editor designed to hack code is a good tool for dealing with 3d applications that like to add extra groups, or that won't save materials. With global search-and-replace it is a matter of minutes to, say, set up a model with materials zones, then change those all into groups in a text editor before importing into Poser to rig.

I never said that rigging couldn't be done [heh] only that Poser Artist didn't have a setup room. I've tried using spawn props and then putting stuff together in the heirachy editor but I have not have exactly complete luck in fifguring out exactly how to make it work right - I've used the idea of a Phi Builder [not sure if that is the program I have but whatever the name, I have something for working with PHI files] and I have had some success with that but mostly I use wordpad to edit cr2 files and stuff like that. I also have found that my over all success with the Joint Editor is only so-so ... it's hard to get streight info on using it - most things make generalised statements and then say something like "It's more an art then anything and you'll get the hang of it by doing it...." - best thing I've found [heck, only thing that really told me what I needed to know] was Dr Geep's tutorial on the topic. It's funny, some aspects of creating a character I have no problems with at all [and those are the parts one would expect to be hardest] and then other stuff I seem to have nothing BUT troubles ... and those seem to be the sort of things you would think should be easy. [heh]

Er when I said 'reset' I meant manually .. remove all the materials that were set for groups and set them to my Material zones instead.

Ah, I understand. One can never be too sure though - I try to avoid assuming too much in matters like this.

Well, just wanted to say thanks to everyone again and to report that I have things working. Did a simple model, saved it and tried to import to Poser with the same "invisible model" results I had been getting, then having confirmed that the model was having the problem, I loaded the mesh into UVMapper and checked the groups - Wings had saved groups as head_skin, head_teeth, head_innermouth, etc - so I loaded it into Wordpad and did a search and replace to get rid of _skin, _teeth, etc and saved it back again, got rid of the rsr file for the model and imported it to Poser again and lo! I had a model which was no longer invisible! Problem solved. Many thanks.

Sounds like you need to un-check the box at the top of the Wings wavefront(obj) export options pop-up which says "one group per material"

Funny, I checked that box way back when I started using Wings because someone told me that it was important to have the box checked or I wouldn't be able to export in a form that Poser would handle right [at that time I was doing just props so groups weren't needed, just materials] ... well, I'll give it a try, maybe the person who told me to check it was actually wrong [heh] learning software can be quite a challenge at times ... thanks for the suggestion.

There is also, "Windows > Outliner" You can clean a lot of that there.

Well, actually the outliner window showed the correct names for the objects- hip, chest, etc, it was in export that the material was added to the group names.

Some people prefer to do it that way - make a single mesh object (which just shows one body in the outliner) but then they paint it with a bunch of different materials, so there's a material for the left forearm and a material for the right forearm etc. Then when you export (with that box checked), each of those material zones becomes a group. It involves extra steps because once you get to poser you have groups but not the proper materials, so you have to start assigning skin materials, selecting fingernails and making them a different material etc I try to do as much as possible in Wings because it has such superb selection tools, whereas trying to select the faces of one toenail in poser is close to impossible - the selecting is difficult and the camera orbit is worse.

"... select the faces of one toenail in poser is close to impossible ..." Amen to that! It seems to be just random chance if you select what you wanted to select in Poser.