MachineClaw... what's the difference in justifaction between a user coming online and posting 'where can I find... (insert model/content type here)', and 'how do I... (insert method here)'? Both can be seen as someone wanting to take the 'easy way out' - relying on another person's expertise and knowledge in order to get to their own end product all the sooner. Of COURSE Poser is about content, be it sold or free - since Poser has no (real) modelling capabilities, you have to import the content from elsewhere. And unless you expect evryone who uses Poser to come from amodelling background, then there's going to be a market for selling the pieces you make. And if you have a market place, then there are goign to be those who choose to give their goods away for free, instead of selling - whatever their motivations for doing so may be. Similarly, we could all start from square one, armed only with the Poser reference and tutorial manual, ignore the forums and community completely, and try to work out exactly what evry single possible node, button, dial and menu item in the program does all by ourselves. Or, we oculd come here, ask people who might have trodden the same ground as us before if they have the answers, and learn from their experiences. As Isaac Newton once said, 'We stand on the shoulders of giants'. We all take advantage of those who have gone before us - whether it be in terms of content, or workflow. Sure, we could just take models, textures, lighting sets, and so on that other people have done before, throw them together randomly, hit render and present it to the public. And some people do. But we can also take those things, try them out in new combinations, take them apart to see exactly how people did what they did, and then try and improve ourselves, tweaking a pose here or light setting there - hell, maybe even beginning to use procedural nodes! Poser is what you make of it. And as you said yourself, the price you pay for content does not necessarily dictate the quality of the finished result. I'm stopping, now, because I'm in danger of continuing to wax lyrical on this vein for a VERY long time indeed. jonthecelt

Shrug. k. it's all good in the hood. Next week the forums are going to change anyway. we will have avatars and lots of new learning and CHANGE. I know how the poser "community" loves CHANGE. Incase you have NO clue what I'm talking about, check the Community Center forum woohooo scary forum you may not have gone into before. Site is changing the software used for Forums at Renderosty, sounds like it will be more like Daz and PoserPros now, guess we wait and see.

I just googled "Spam" amdchecked Dictionary.com The defination is broad. I think we all do know exactly what MachineClaw is talkingabout. I think he is (and I apologize if I am speaking for him) referring to the marketing ploy freebie posts. I play this MMP game (DAoC) and peole are always selling and giving stuff away, but it is generally discourages in certain chat channels because you can't read through all the announcements. They call it Spam. So I can see it's use here too. I think as years go buy everyone has dofferent ideas on what they want. I think all of us have felt tired of the manipulation and spam scams after awhile.

Hmm... ...'I know how the poser "community" loves CHANGE. Incase you have NO clue what I'm talking about, check the Community Center forum woohooo scary forum you may not have gone into before. '... MachineClaw, if you checked this forum as often as you seem to, you'd know that every forum has been informed of this, as well as it being on the front page. Why do you seem to be attacking this area now, with your "community" comments and 'woohoo scary forum' stuff? That's just uncharitable. jonthecelt

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/index.ez?viewStory=13011

jon, I couldn't SEE that post in the poser forum through all the stuff I'm talking about in this here thread. It's kinda why I posted this thread, cause I'm missing stuff by skipping over so many threads, what I call SPAM. Before anybody says I need new glasses or learn to read, I waded through 100+ posts with responces on multiple pages. Not mad, not angry, not even really up on a soapbox, just an observation that I have made that from the views here in this thead are no shared. tis all good.

I missed that annoucement. I knew it was coming but didn't see it. The avatars sound cool. Kidna exciting to have new features to play with. I am sure there will be the Normal "I hate it change it back" threads. That is normal. Off to read the announcement again properly.

Yeah, I've found that, on average, about 50 new posts are added each day to the Poser forum alone. Most of them have no relveance to me - they're questions I can't answer, art I have no interest in, freebies that I have no need for - but I read them anyway. It takes maybe forty minutes of my time each day. But it's not difficult to begin to skim over them, if you want to. If you don't like freebie links, ten avoid anything with 'freebie' in the title, for example. I'm surprised you missed the forum thread regarding the change, since the title was 'Forum Conversion - Monday, April 3rd': I won't make any comments on your ablity to read, or your eyesight, however. And yes, it does appear that not everyone here shares your opinion, MachineClaw. However, that still doesn't seem fair to begin talking in desultory tersm about our "community" that seems to be scared of forums other than this one. jonthecelt

There is an unspoken aire in Poserdom that I'm sure brokers wish they could speak ourtright.....they wish freebies would disapear cause it hurts sales. What a load of crap. I know tons of merchants/brokers and not a one agree's with that statement. You'll actually find that most don't make free stuff because they just don't have time. Poser consumers are MUCH more demanding than they were a few years ago, and Poser content, on average, takes at least 3 times longer than it used to. (remember back when their were not mat files, no jcm, no fbm, poke thru wasn't a 'drama', textures where just flood fills of a nice pattern, etc)

Attached Link: Free Tutorials :)

Anyway.

OT: A fun feature in the new forum would be a topic meter. Are we going to reach Kill mode by post 100?

Message edited on: 03/31/2006 17:59

By gosh, how long can it possibly take you to skip over the headlines that announce a freebie? Nobody FORCES you to read them all!

Someone stated that the freebies are why we have so many NVIATWAS. Without freebies, I think we would just have a lot of NV without swords floating in front of a grey background :-) At least the freebies provide some clothes for the poor girl--whether they get used or not. Bons mots of the week, pigfish9! You have distilled the issue to its essence. -------------------------------- Brief Tutorial: Subject Line Filtering Tags OT: My back hurts! FREE-B: My Back Hurts Poses! -Site Link- PROMO: Sale at my Bach Ache for Miki Store! POMO: No Soap Radio! PSYCHO: No one has mentioned my back in a post for the last 36 hours! and... FLAME TARGET: Grover Cleavland was the hotest US President ever!

I may be thinking of someone else, but is this the same Machine Claw that thinks rules will kill forums? (c; ?:

Anyone still has LittleDragon's old topic meter?

It makes me more than a little upset that you lump us free stuff providers into the same category as people who send spam messages about "breast implants, a penis implant, to take the blue pill". We take our time to make something that we think everyone will enjoy and then we post a message telling everyone where they can get it for FREE, at no cost them. And now we're being compared to spammers. And I thought not receiving a "thank you" was bad. This is just a slap in the face. --John

Are you quoting VanishingPoint? Or are you Vanishing pont? There was an earlier post that said the same thing?

Well I'm outta this thread it's going down hill fast! How do I stop the dozens of ebots on it... you know the ones with the Renderosity ads about the "My services side bar" at the bottom? mike

"How do I stop the dozens of ebots on it... :<< You just don't come back. You only get ebots if you keep returning.

Okay...anyone who has "already" posted, and is NOT a part of a store please raise your hand. :)

Attached Link: freestuff :P

Are you quoting VanishingPoint? Or are you Vanishing pont? I deleted the earlier post because the message was supposed to be posted under my account as my opinion, not the opinion of the Vanishing Point company. :) Anyway, back to the point: Okay...anyone who has "already" posted, and is NOT a part of a store please raise your hand. Okay, just so I'm straight- you don't want merchants to post free items? Or are merchants allowed to post free items, but can't talk about them because talking about free items is "spam"? --John

editting for typos:

I see. I don't aways know who everyone is. Keeping track of male and female is hard enough :)

I think what MachineClaw is referring to, by the title and what he has writtent, (and again I do not mean to speak for him), are those posts that are not really about freebies, but rather using freebies as an excuse to lead traffic to a store, with the hope and intention that they might buy something while they are there, and that those post might be becoming so frequent and numerous that it might be harder to read the other posts (over-advertised).

lol But I don't want to put words in his mouth. (Sorry MachineClaw)Just how I read it.

I don;t think he is against merchants, freebies, or anyone and just sharing a point of view like when people say there is too much nudity, etc (maybe bad example)

Message edited on: 03/31/2006 21:47

I'm just trying to find the part that says you have to pay attention to 'spam' posts, etc..;) When I first got here ('01), there were so many Poser posts that it ran to 4 new pages a day. As the years went by, I'd copy down URL's, etc., download freebies, and haven't had a moment's regret (except when I first started..;) OT posts? Heck, sonny boy, I remember when we had an OT Forum!..;)

Complaint and Debate.... remeber that one. lol Wow. hehe.

"Okay...anyone who has "already" posted, and is NOT a part of a store please raise your hand." I'm not a part of any store anywhere in any industry. My stuff is so bad I can't even give it away.

((Okay...anyone who has "already" posted, and is NOT a part of a store please raise your hand.)) I'm not a merchant and have no affiliation with any of the stores.

I have found many a good freebie from scanning this forum and I greatly appreciate each and every one. Maybe it's just because of my upbringing, but it just seems rude to lump the good people who provide us with freebies in with those who IMHO equate to snake oil salesmen. Also...... I do wonder if Poser has nothing to do with rendering, then why all the clammering for a better render engine each time a new release comes out? Don't we learn about the software in order to produce better images/animations? If not, then what's the point?

Well sheesh. Spam?

I spend loads of time searching for free items within the poser community for myself to use, or helping others find what they are looking for.

I thought I was helping this community by sharing a FEW of the links that I find. Yes, only a few because the ratio of links I post to those I actually comb through is about 1:10 if not less.

I can't texture, I don't know how to model. I thought I was helping give back to the community that has given me so much help and encouragement. Guess not.

I'm sorry to hear that some of you consider my trying to help all of you out in my own small way as being "spamming".

I won't bother posting freebie links anymore.

Sorry to those who have enjoyed my findings over the past months, but I am hurt and saddened that my meager efforts to give something back to this community has been annoying and considered "spam".

Message edited on: 03/31/2006 23:30

APRIL FOOLS!!! GOTCHA! :) Anton you win couldn't get the thread to 100 posts in 12 hours. I love freebies as much as the next person.

Good try. Yeah I was worried there but 82 isn't bad. I even was worried when the Daz sues e-frontier popped up early as well. Only copyright can get to 100 in 12 hours. I think I did a good job calming people down. But people are so passionate the numbers climbed. Acadia, Sweetie everyone loves you and noone refered to you. It is just a coincidence that this is the type of posts you like to make. Don't think any of this was about you.

you bastards! you killed kenny^H^H^H^H^Hacadia!

I'm glad to know you guys weren't serious. Sorry I took it so personally. I've had a really bad (beyond bad) day today, so I'm a bit touchy and a whole lot more sensitive than usual. I'll keep on posting interesting freebie links when I find them :)

Poser is a passionate place. Intense and passionate.

So you're only a troll stirring trouble if it's not April Fool's Day ;P

Xena, seeing you call his opinion "crap" was pretty fabulous. :)

Well it was a pretty crap opinion LMAO

Only the first time was funny.

Fair play, MachineClaw, you got me... :) jonthecelt

I think I had your brainwaves filtered as spam guys :P checks in the calendar that Internet April Fool's Day lasts more than 48 hours and starts much earlier than you'd expect I DO really hope that noone will ever post a topic like that being serious :) Michal 4blueyes

Sorry, April Fools Day is April 1 not March 31. Crying April Fool is a lame excuse and an attempt to backtrack from saying something unpopular.

checks in the calendar that Internet April Fool's Day lasts more than 48 hours and starts much earlier than you'd expect Nonsense - who says? You might as well say that Internet Christmas starts on August 15. Mind you, round here it seems to ...

It can't be an April fool if you started the thread BEFORE April the first. Anyway I hardly ever go to Product Showase unless I recognise the name of the thread starter or the title jumps out screaming at me so I would miss a lot of really neat freebies if they were moved to the showcase.

Hmm... Even in Aussieland or one of the places where the futurepeople (compared to us Europeans) live, this was started before April 1st...

Gee. Glad I was out all day and missed this. Not very funny for a joke, was it? bonni

this all somehow reminds me of one of my acquaintances who tends to tell really nasty things in the face and then add with a charming smile "But I am just joking ^_^" ... kitty5

I'm w/Bonni. I think jokes ought to be funny, as a sort of minimum. And hurting people may be funny for the guy with the bat, but many of the rest of us are not amused, unless the guy being treated to the humor gets control of the bat and returns the favor. Anyone who didn't expect Acadia to take this personally is tone deaf or permanently immature. It was obviously aimed at her, whether it was a "joke" or not, and the "humor" was pure meanness that deserved her first reaction. When I read the first post, the first thing I thought was, "What kind of ungrateful, self-important SOB would attack Acadia like this?" If she had been in on the joke, that would be different, by the way. If it really was an April Fools' gag, including her so she could "defend herself" as part of the alleged sendup would have been a bit less stupid. A "joke" with humor that depends on harm is not funny, period. And "Just kidding!!" is a cop-out smelling dubiously of bullshit. M PS: Y'all understand that this post is just a silly ole April Fools' joke, right? Just kidding? No harm done? Right? Piffle.

To be fair... it's not just MachineClaw claiming this as an April Fool... Anton is backing him up... it was apparently something they both schemed up together. I'm not going to judge them on the rightness or humour in the gag - after all, I bit on this one pretty hard, and any griping now would probably just be sour grapes on my part - but if both parties concur that this was a premeditated joke, then I believe them. jonthecelt

if both parties concur that this was a >> premeditated joke, then I believe them. Right. And secretly delivering watermelons to your new Black neighbors is a "joke." Man, don't those folks have a sense of humor? Personally, I don't care if it was "meant" to be funny. It was not funny, it was petty, thoughtless, and mean. Just kidding, of course. M

APRIL FOOLS!!! GOTCHA! Ha ha. You basically called free stuff providers spammers, but it's only a joke. Ha ha. Right, I get it. Like mickma just said, it's like how jokes about African-Americans aren't really supposed to be racist. And like jokes about Polish people aren't really meant to demean them. But those jokes are funny, right? Who cares if they offend people? Feel free to add my name to your "block messages from this person" list so you don't see any of my messages announcing new free stuff. After all, I wouldn't want you to get any of my "spam". I was planning on announcing new of my latest freebie, the Episode I C-3PO, but since you consider it spam, I won't be making the announcement. --John