This is a major disappointment.  I'm a big fan of C5Pro and Hex.  I won't spend a dime with daz though.  Hex is easy enough to replace.  I can work faster in Silo anyway.  But C5Pro will be tougher to replace.  Well.  Back to revisit some demos and move on to another package.

C5 Pro works great as it is. No need to replace it just because DAZ now holds the reins. :) Of course I am sure you mean the future of Carrara, which I am worried about as well. I still model in Lightwave, I have yet to make the jump to any of the newer modeling packages.

C5 Pro is an excellent product. The development team in my opinion has done a great job over the past couple of years. To see it end would be a shame. Though I am sure we will know more tomorrow, indications are that the development team will stay on and still maintain development of Carrara. I sure hope so. Changing apps is not easy. I attempted it with Carrara at version 3. Only now have I made the complete transition. I like Carrara and it has some great features that Lightwave doesnt have. More importantly, I just have more fun using Carrara than I did in 7 years of using Lightwave.

The only experience I have with any DAZ product is Bryce and that was years ago, back before Corel got it. It would be easy to point to the fate of Bryce and be real sad about the future of Carrara. Bryce was pretty much dead when DAZ took over. Here we have the full development team staying on, from initial reports anyway.

Other than that, my experience with DAZ is zero. So I guess I will wait and see. But I still have a $400 upgrade for Lightwave to take advantage of if things dont pan out. For now, Carrara suits my  needs perfectly, hopefully it will continue to do so and the development team will still keep adding the amazing new features.

That's it. I feel I just got f###ed in the face.  Having just invested into Carrara and Hex. Another app that will be lost to time. These companies always say that the developing team will stay with the program but that always turns to BS.

I would still like to know if I can get my money back.

From a long time user of al the old Metacreations products, throught the Corel acquisition of Bryce and their near killing of it...thru Poser..and the DAZ buying of Bryce, and saving it from extinction...I think you will find DAZ more than supportive of Eovia products..Carrara and Hexagon. They're commited to keeping great apps reasonably priced and available so a lot of folks can achieve in CG. Their customer service is overall outstanding. A few glitches here and there, but everyone has them. They do have a special knack at marketing, just witness what they have done with DAZ Studio....But there is no question they are a great company and have a very loyal customer base.

Their current base is a bit different than cobblers like you guys...doing the modeling and so forth...maybe a lot of people that cant model...yet...but have to buy product from a company such as dAZ...but there are already people over there wondering what Carrara and Hexagon are...and more than likely a lot of them will join you guys in learning and using the Eovia applications.

Yup, Brycers freaked when DAZ bought Bryce. As Carrara/Hexagon users are beginning to now.

It won't count for much in the face of a company buy-out, but fear not Carrara users, DAZ will treat your program well. Time will show you.

The Chicken Littles have really come out of the woodworks, haven't they AgentSmith?

:b_scared:

Quote - That's it. I feel I just got f###ed in the face.  Having just invested into Carrara and Hex. Another app that will be lost to time. These companies always say that the developing team will stay with the program but that always turns to BS.

I would still like to know if I can get my money back.

Probably, call element5 or customer service. They will tell you.

Not Chicken Littles. I just payed for an app that will no doubt be turned into another DS add on and will take forever to get an update. Bryce has proven this. Yes it was saved and then pretty much given away. I'm I wrong in worring that I just lost money? If I had waited a couple of weeks, would I have gotten it cheep like Bryce. When your on a tight budget because you can't work anymore due to health and you have scrimpt and save for a long time to buy something. You would be wondering what is going to happen.

Smug little remarks like that do nothing but piss people off even more.

over in the Poser thread, Dan Farr just made a statement that you guys that bought Hex before the announcement would be taken care of...

danfarr

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Posted Mon, Apr 24, 2006 8:56 pm

Jcleaver,

Even though we did not own Eovia at the time you made the pre-order I can assure you that we will do something for people who have pre-ordered. You will not "get the shaft" but will be getting more than you bargained for.

Dan

Back to Top [quote]  

Quote - daz got some of the cash from platinum users, who have shown themselves to be willing to buy anything at any time, even if they never use it in a render. they got some cash from buyers of the millenium group of models, whose users have shown themselves to be willing to buy hundreds of textures, hundreds of clothing items and hundreds of injection morphs, even if they never use them in renders, and even if they already own a lo-res or a hi-res copy of the same texture. to me it implies daz are positioning themselves to move ahead of e-frontier. they have the new bryce/hexagon combo, and e-frontier has shade. they have daz studio, and e-frontier has poser. but daz is in a better position, as they have a customer base who have shown themselves willing to buy any new sale-price add-on to daz studio, even if they never use it. this is something that e-frontier doesn't yet have - a gimmick to trick people into buying stuff they'll never use, that they'll never need. they have plenty of customers who don't understand most of the features of their software, but e-frontier haven't yet grasped the marketing genius of charging people extra, at special one-time-only sales, for the useless bells and whistles they'll never use or comprehend. y'all might be surprised to learn this, but troll the poser forum sometime. you'll often find people admitting (or bragging) that they spend hundreds of dollars per month on poser extras, thousands of dollars per year. I daresay e-frontier should be interested in tapping into this gold mine.

You could say the same of people who buy expensive sw  package after package and never use it. Or expensive other gadgets. Hey, more power to them if it makes them happy. You don't have to buy the stuff. I like the sales,  they can be very good.  Daz has sales regularly. I have gotten stuff for dirt. Nothing wrong with that. If you think it is too much don't buy it. The have a 30day no questions asked guarentee. Not everybody in sw does that and the ones that do don't make it as easy to really get your money back. They market and they do it well. It's a tough world. Companies have to compete and market. Most companies put money before people. I have no problems with companies making money, but that shouldn't be all the company is about. This is one reason I don't like publicly traded companies. DAZ nor Eovia seem to be those kind of companies.

well, i a daz platinum club member and i model, on the serface this may look real bad but i have a feeling that Daz will serve us well (if my memory severs me right, didnt they used to be zygote,  and i know that zygote was a commanion with Ray dream- carrara's beloved granddaddy for all you younglings-so for me presonaly, this seam like we all have just come full circle form InifiD and ray dream to Carrara and Hexagon, all working with zygote/daz)

Quote - but daz is in a better position, as they have a customer base who have shown themselves willing to buy any new sale-price add-on to daz studio, even if they never use it. this is something that e-frontier doesn't yet have - a gimmick to trick people into buying stuff they'll never use, that they'll never need.

I'm sure people who buy things they'll never use and never need are willing to take responsibility for their own actions, and don't feel tricked by DAZ.

One thing is certain only...It is wait and see time.

I am willing to give this all a chance.

i wish i would have seen the signs quicker, like the Eovia promo bundel at daz or the daz stuff in evoia's store

Quote - i wish i would have seen the signs quicker, like the Eovia promo bundel at daz or the daz stuff in evoia's store

They have been doing this since 2004, I think, when they partnered.

Personally, I like DAZ. Like every other company they have made their share of minor mistakes but they always seem to correct their errors with grace and style. As they had the resources to acquire Eovia they are clearly doing something right. Eovia and DAZ have always given me excellent service and I have no reason to believe this will change.

It is true that many Platinum Club members have made little use of DAZ products they have purchased, primarily due to a gimmick- a reasonably decent product for next to nothing. Sounds like a pretty good gimmick to me even if I'm not a Platinum Club member. Certainly, I lack the arrogance to judge how people should spend their money.

Likewise, the modeling forums are full of people who constantly leap from one piece of software to another (by their own admission) and never learn to really model anything well. Does this somehow make the modeling programs in question less capable? Regardless, I fail to see how such buying patterns are relevant to the quality of a firm's product or service.

DAZ's combination of aggressive marketing and competitive pricing is more likely to further Carrara & Hexagon than hinder them. Historically, DAZ has certainly demonstrated a higher regard for their customers than CuriousLabs or Corel have. Call me a fanboy but I have no fears for the future.

• Jack

I've no complaints against DAZ. Done quite a bit of business with them so far and expect to do more. I'm just concerned that in the enevitable confusion that comes from this kind of situation those of us who pre-ordered Hex are going to get the short end.

On the Poser group Dan Farr of DAZ said that anyone concidering pre-ordering Hex 2 should wait, that there would be a pleasant suprise with the announcement, or words to that effect.. But where does that leave those of us that were loyal enough to Eovia make the pre-order already?

mike

scroll back a few mesages trav and see what Dan said about that

Quote - over in the Poser thread, Dan Farr just made a statement that you guys that bought Hex before the announcement would be taken care of...

danfarr

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Posted Mon, Apr 24, 2006 8:56 pm

Jcleaver,

Even though we did not own Eovia at the time you made the pre-order I can assure you that we will do something for people who have pre-ordered. You will not "get the shaft" but will be getting more than you bargained for.

Dan

Back to Top [quote]    

Hmmm,

   Ya mean like a free 'The Civil Servant: For Aiko 3', or a 'Damaru Jigoku for Hiro', or maybe a 'David: Base'? Thrilling, ... cough, cough, cough (trying hard to remain civil).

rj

I believe what Dan Farr has to say...they've never lied before...that said...I've been a member for so long now I already have everything.....I think I should be embarrassed about that.....

Oh well, will just to have to wait & see...as I have NO use for any addiitional content from them(past products) as I'm up to date

Walks away red-faced

"I just payed for an app that will no doubt be turned into another DS add on"

-Bryce users had the same exact fear, and it just isn't true. In the end It has not really affected Bryce users or Studio users other than a superior way to bring a DAZ figure into Bryce, and one button added to Bryce's gui.

"and will take forever to get an update. Bryce has proven this"

-Also try to take into mind about when DAZ took Bryce over, that the update from version 5.0 to 5.5; a lot of that update was the re-optimization of the old 5.0 Corel code. It was an unfortunate but absolutely neccessary process that had to be done, and ate up a ton of development time.

Carrara users will very thankfully  not have to go through that!  ;oD

Again, I know this time is going to be rough for Carrara users, but try to take heart and give it all a chance.

Daveso, punched back in from an e-bot and missed your post, made mine, then found Dan's post on the Poser forum.

I and NOT a DAZ fanboy, but I have had occation to use their products and deal with thier customer service people, I haven't touched DAZ Studio since it's first release. That said I can say that their customer service people have always been freindly and helpful, thier products are of good quality and as advertised. I have no reason to expect less in the future.

I have reservations... I never really pictured DAZ as a company as being beg enough to support the software they now own, Bryce, Carrara and Hexagon, added to thier original line of models and DAZ Studio. Plus I've seen them moving into other media areas, that book with Dick Van Dyke, and a couple of ads that seem to indicate some work in television and maybe movie SFX. I hope they haven't over extended themselves... I'd hate to loose ALL of thier resources because they bit off more than they could chew!

All of that off my chest, I'll wait and see... I LOVE Carrara! The features of Hex 2 have me working hard to lear to use Hex 1, and I find Hex 1 at least twice as compicated as Carrara's modellers! I hope this does turn out to be a positive move!

mike

I'm defenitely studying what Carrara and Hexagon is all about more than I ever have, that's for sure.

I've known AgentSmith quite a while now, (though I've never met him in person) and he has always given me good advice, steered me to cool freebies and other treasures, and taught me quite a bit about CG in general. I intend to follow his advice and "give it all a chance". Besides, Ringo said- "It is all good guys.....all good". That's good enough for me right now.

I hate to sound like I don't like Bryce or anything, but I would really like to see it folded into Carrara.

I think that Carrara and Hex will benefit from the merger, but I don't see how Bryce will. It seems to me that most everything that people have wanted to see come into Bryce is now in Carrara. Unless there is som e type of product seperation to come to the two apps, I don't see the reason to continue to market both.

Maybe I am wrong. Actually, I am excited. Native support for all DAZ content built into Carrara? If you thought you could do without Poser before...

Bryce users are pretty devoted, lol. And, we may be considered to be on a different position on the "prosumer" totem pole as a good amount of us are "hobbysists", meaning they may not feel the need to spend what looks like to most of them as a great deal of money ($550) for Carrara, only because their 3D leans more towards fun and less towards being "serious".

Both Bryce and Carrara have its user groups. To cancel one of those programs out could/would be canceling out a large user base, which would be less people to use DAZ figures. :o)

(So as far as keeping the program seperate, there ya go)

And...for those Bryce users that do want to have a more rounded 3D package, rather than a expanded landscaping program, adding Carrara and/or Hexagon on, is a great option. (imho), especially if they can still have their Bryce to lean on as an area of familarity.

Maybe DAZ will develop a sidegrade for Bryce user to get into Carrara. I was once a diehard Bryce user,  but wanted to build my own stuff. I gradually moved to Carrara 3 or 4 years ago. As of Carrara 5.1, with GeoControl and some plugins that are available or soon to be available,  I can tell you that Bryce can't touch Carrara's landscape capabilities. Volumetric clouds, surface replicator, plant & tree generator with wind animation for trees,  translucency, HDRI, indirect lighting, visible light cones that are interactive with translucency and transaprency, and great terrain distribution shaders are just some of the featues for that. Also, Hexagon 1 is a great modeler, and Hex 2 is going to be amazing with the displacement brushes, 3D painting, and UV unfolding. With both programs, they are almost unlimited in their 3D capabilities.

"Maybe DAZ will develop a sidegrade for Bryce user to get into Carrara"

I have no proof, but....bet your butt they will.

Well, I didn't really consider the content sales could make keeping the two apps seperate viable. That's actually a good point, but the rendering functionality of Bryce and Carrara overlap so much that...I don't know.

As long as Carrara benefits from the DTE I'll be happy.

This could still be our future!!!  A Carrara/Bryce 6 app.

Hey, I thought the images were suppose to resize so we didn't have to scroll anymore.

Everyone post a lot so we can get to a new page.

Post

Everything Patrick_210 said about Carrara's landscape capabilities is true IMO. You can also animate everything in that landscape! With a combination of Carrara's advanced particles and animated displacement maps, you can have streams, rivers, and waterfalls rushing through your scenes. The Anything Grows plug-in from DGC allows you to make animated grass using the "wiggle" function. You can also add flying flocks of birds with the native importer. And all of this is available in the standard version of Carrara5! I also am a long-time Bryce user and hold this app in affectionate regard. Hopefully some of Carrara's technology will 'trickle down" to Bryce and give current and future users new and exciting capabilties.

Yup, I've been going over C5.1's features, and available plug-ins.

I had to put plastic over my keyboard to keep the drool from shorting it out.

Shonner NOW you have me worried--no universal manipulator? (or did I miss it)

DAZ just needs to buy e-frontier now to make Meta Creations / Fractal Design a complete set again.

You will not "get the shaft" but will be getting more than you bargained for.
See my first post in this thread. The BS begins. I'm stuck with a couple of extinct products with no tech support and a bunch of smiling eager faces poised at the phones.

And if DAZ farmed their programming to China, then I remain unsurprised. After all, good old family values patriotism shouldn't be allowed to interfere with profits.

My Hex 1 arrived yesterday, by the way. No manual. Great.

M

This is great. Now Carrara will have all the tools we need to make big-breasted underage latex-sheathed anime nymphs. And mountains. What else is there? Yeesh.

Just some wild speculation here, but I think the relationship between DAZ and Eovia has been closer than what most people have realized for quite some time.  Look at how long it took for Eovia to get P6 support for Transposer, over a year! It didn't happen until after they made an announcement that C5 would have native "DAZ3D" figure support.  My initial thought was that Eovia was able to pull off the native import of DAZ, and Poser, figures through a jump start provided by DAZ (a by product of DAZ development of DS).

eFrontier made life difficult for Eovia for quite some time, and no doubt hurt the sales of C4 and Transposer a great deal, due to their reluctance to provide Eovia with the SDK for P6. Sounds a lot like what happened between Curious Labs and DAZ a while back. Given that both companies were at least partially dependent on, and had strained business relations (potential loss of profit, and additional expenses) with the parent company of the same product, it seems only logical that they would "gravitate" toward each other.

I thought that Eovia might buy DAZ, so DAZ aquiring Eovia is a bit of a surprise. But the handwritting was on the wall that the two companies were going to have an increasingly closer relationship since "Poser figure" support in Carrara is critical to CS sales, and no doubt eFrontier views Eovia products as being in direct competition with Shade.

Only time will tell if the aquisition of Eovia by DAZ will be a plus for Carrara/Hex users.  But DAZ now has all the right tools to make what MetaCreations was working toward when they sold off all their 3D assets.  This could potentially be a very good, or even great boost to the capabilities of Crrara, and make C6 one of the best 3D applications out there (of course I'm one of those people that always sees the cup as being half full).

This will give DAZ the tools to work toward the next generation of "Poser" figures without having to work around the limitations of Poser.  If the OGL responsiveness of DS can be integrated into C6, and content (figures) are optimmized using the advanced rigging capabilities in C5, then Poser useres will finally have what they have been asking for (of course they'll need to add dynamic cloth and dynamic hair).

Just my 2 cents.

DR

LOL..LOL...LOL.

I'm glad AgentSmith and a few other rational minds are in this discussion!  I think DAZ marketing and Eovia code developers might just do some good things.  Carrara and Hexagon are simply too valuable to die off or become disfigured due to this corporate change -- it just won't happen.

What might happen is the Eovia (now DAZ) software developers digging into poor Bryce’s innards and creating a truly awesome 3D landscape package.

It’s not likely that DAZ will mess with Carrara’s development path, but I imagine Bryce will come out a clear winner.

You know, it's a bit like walking in on your own mother while she's doing the dog with a sleazeball politician. I'm not so much angry or shocked; more like sick to my stomach. Time to check out the upgrade paths on Shade, and start saving my pennies for Vue.

Y'know, I could've bought Blacksmith for less than Hex, and actually gotten what I paid for.

M

mickmca, although I can sympathize, you'd be shooting yourself in the foot moving to Vue. But if  you like working with a buggy.crashy program...have fun.....I doubt you'll get much done.  Which is why I switched in the 1st place.  In addition to receiving multitudes of buggy  patches & poor c/s.

Just due a search in the Vue forum on Vue 5 & go over to eon & read for yourself.

Good luck with this, I got tired of all the "quirks", which is what they calling bugs now LOL

I prefer a "quirkless" program :)

We each have our own perspective.  I love Carrara, but I also love Vue.  I guess I am lucky, as Vue doesn't crash on me.  I will say that E-On is a little slow to respond however.

I understand that jcleaver :)  Just don't want mickmca making rash/hasty decisions in a state of upset without knowing  the WHOLE gig before he jumps ship.

As always best to thoroughly read ALL the forums & demo things before you buy.

But you know the old saying, the grass is greener on the other side. ;)

Actually, I have Vue 4 Pro, and I haven't used it enough yet to hit the bugs. For what I do, C5P with Ground Control was all the terrain tool I needed, so I had back-burnered upgrading to Vue 5 Infinite or whatever.

I've made a pretty heavy commitment to C5P, plus "buying" Hex 2.0, which is now DAZ vaporware (and that's a personal promise! Rilly!!!), so the transition to a program I can trust will entail a lot of mac and cheese. I guess it's time to revisit the freeware options, since I can't afford any of the first-rate commercial products.

I'll continue to use C5P, and if DAZ delivers a working Hex 2.0 for free as Eovia promised me I would get when I bought Hex 1.0 last week, I'll use those products mainly. At the DAZ forums, by the way, the buzz is that DAZ will NOT give free upgrades to Hex 1.0 purchasers, only to Pre-release Hex 2.0 purchasers. Maybe that's the same thing, but they aren't saying so. And if there's one thing you can trust DAZ to do, it's to find a way to make a pig's ear sound like a silk purse, even if it still stinks of hog flop. 

I hope the 5.1 patch is solid, because I won't pick up another C5P "update" without letting a lot of DAZzies try it first, and I went out and grabbed the Hex 1.21 download a few minutes ago. I wasn't concerned about having it when I actually believed that Hex 2.0 would be out by April 30. Now I assume it's the last meaningful change we're likely to see for a while. Those of you unfamiliar with DAZ as a software white knight should take a look at the unrevised history of the "release" of D|S, which was announced a few months after P5 hit the streets, driving one more calculated nail into the Curious Labs gurney. D|S had an alleged release date a few months later. The BETA, which they hastily revised history to call an ALPHA, came out, in part, two years late. And it was unusable junk for another year. Pray their monkeys don't get to type code for Hex 2.0.

I'll continue to use the programs, because I like what I have (C5P), orphaned or not, and because I can't afford the money or time to switch. What I won't do is put together the tutorials I was planning to write for CBasic (dead orphan?), introductory-level CP5 and, eventually, introductory Hex. No loss for DAZ, big waste of time for me. And it will be a long, long time before I go out on a limb to defend the integrity and quality of a software company again. It almost makes me want to cry that only last week I was posting on a number of forums what a great company Eovia was, especially their customer support and QA. My comparison above stands.

M

Vue4 Pro works like a charm...it's the 5 series that has troubles FYI.

Why not post your tuts for sale here or on own website(providing you have one)?

I'm sure the rest of us would benefit & then Daz wouldn't be getting of your monies rec'd :)

Just a thought :)

Hmmm

Guess it's daz taking over the world instead of eovia?  heh...I KNEW I shouldn't have went to
California for siggraph with them and shared my idea about that with Dan.  lol

For those who are not familiar with carrara:

I use carrara.  I can use carrara equally as well as I can use Bryce...and that being said, there are times when I can do things in C that I can not do as easily (or at all) in Bryce.  I highly recommend both programs, but have for a long time recommended Carrara as the best/biggest bang for the buck for anyone wanting to get into 3d and get the most for their dollars.  Ive posted images in the Carrara forum here, from games and from a DVD that Im working on if you'd like see what can be done in this program...

To AS, if you are not familiar with this program...I would say directly to you that you would not regret the purchase.  At times, things arent as clear as they should be..but the manual is pretty well written and it follows pretty much all of the metacreations rules about interfaces.  You'd pick it up in no time...however, it is NOT bryce and does not compare to bryce image quality.  I have not ever seen an image made in carrara (by me on anyone else) that has Bryce's richness in render.  But...you are very familiar with the 'all bryce renders look alike' comments Im sure, and thats because of that richness of color.  C does not have this...its something to do with the light ambiance..but Ive never been able to get around that "hazed" look.  Anyhow, even with that...it kicks arse!  Look back a few weeks, months (even years) at some of the posts here by me (and other) to see some of the advanced scenes you can make that would killllllllll bryce.  I guess you could just search for 'brycetech'.

I'm pleased at Daz acquisition, but a bit surprised as I didnt expect it....still very pleased tho.  DAZ has the rep for quality and I feel C is in good hands.

/me goes off mumbling about never telling anyone else about plans to take over the world.

BT

Hope everythin goes well.

Quote -

I'll continue to use C5P, and if DAZ delivers a working Hex 2.0 for free as Eovia promised me I would get when I bought Hex 1.0 last week, I'll use those products mainly. At the DAZ forums, by the way, the buzz is that DAZ will NOT give free upgrades to Hex 1.0 purchasers, only to Pre-release Hex 2.0 purchasers. Maybe that's the same thing, but they aren't saying so. And if there's one thing you can trust DAZ to do, it's to find a way to make a pig's ear sound like a silk purse, even if it still stinks of hog flop. 

For now they will have the same developers so updates should be fine. Also, don't confuse issues with the upgrades. If you pre-ordered rather thru a hex1 purchase or otherwise you should be fine. There is no reason to think they will not honor that. They are probably going to actually lower the prices on the software, I bet.

Yup, it was all Brycetech's idea from Siggraph `04, I over heard it all.  ;oD

Yeah, as far as a package aside from Bryce, I have been looking at C4D, which is very excellent, yet price-wise...especially after getting the older Carrara 2.1 for free after that last 3D World Magazine...and especially now with the DAZ buyouy...I'm looking really hard at Carrara. (Carrara has some sweet plugins).

Besides, I've been looking to settle on something that supports displacements for my ZBrush work.

And...if DAZ can make all their programs work as a true Suite...and juggle 3D data in and out amongst all the programs? Holy metal Batman......I'll get a 'Dan Farr' tattoo on my lilly white...er, leg.