I consider myself a Vue veteran, I've been using Vue for at least 5 years, and I'm fairly good at figuring out software interfaces quickly in general. But Vue 5 Infinite's Advanced Function Editor has to be THE worst interface I've ever seen. It talks about nodes....what the smeg are those? Sorry, I forgot to get my degree in advanced mathematics. For crying out loud, all I want to do is create/apply a colour/bump function...yet this damn Editor makes it look like I'm trying to navigate a black hole or something. I figured out most of Lightwave 8 in a matter of a few days....but Vue 5's Function Editor is still perplexing me, 5 months later!

I guess this post has no point, I'm just venting. But I really do hate that bloody interface.

Nodes....nodes....nodes????

JoeBlack

I love that Function Editor, lol.

Never found an easier way to write computer graphics programs - without writing computer graphics programs. That's what the Function Editor lets you do, create shaders with as much power as if you were writing them in code, without knowing how to code!

Considering the creative power, my opinion is that they made it  pretty easy. Not saying there's no learning curve or that it's simple - just that it's much easier than writing the code that would give you the same creative power.

You can do simple color and bump mapping without touching the Function Editor. I expect lots of folks will never try to learn functions and you can do a great deal without them. But i'm sure glad they are there for those that want to have that power. Different strokes for different brush using folks.

I hate the function editor also.    All of us are not as intellegent as some compuet geeks whos IQ are  way above a normal persons.

  Glad some can say its easy but for me it suxs big time.   Remember all people can not comprehend the same so some find it easy and lots find it complicated.

Joe Black I agree with you 100%.  Guess we some of the few who find it diffucult.

  Why couldnt it have been made using sliders like carrara 5 pro which to me is much eaiser to use. :(
 
And don't anyone take that as an advertisment for carrara software.

I love the function-editor aswell although I think I still have to learn alot.

But I would apreciate it if it could show even links like when you create a mixed material. It should show both materials with all their nodes, this way you could for example link both to the same bumpmap but have differences in color...

It took me a while to get my head round how it works and I'm still finding my way round using it but then it is a powerful tool.  I found the best way to learn it was to find a material that were sort of how I wanted a material I'm making to be, copy them and then play with the copies to see if you can get the new effect.  Sometimes I'll borrow something from another material and combine it with the one I'm working on to get a new effect.

If you don't like it Vue does give you other ways to produce materials but you can't control.  Or you could learn Python and write your own material functions for the different properties but I've not even looked at that option yet other than reading the function names in the manual.

As to calling them nodes - I'm afraid that is pretty common terminology for systems like this so, as with other terminology, like it or hate it you just have to accept it and see if you can make it work.

I'm still a newcomer to Vue (I'm using Vue 5 Esprit) and learning new ways to do things with each new image I do - and yes I think the function editor does look a bit daunting (to put it mildly)

........but I'm actually pleased to have a lot of additional functionality waiting there to be explored.

I learn slowly lol - so it should keep me busy for some time!

I think some more walk simple walk through material making tutorials would have been useful to at least give everyone a start.

But as it is - I am at least having a lot of fun trying to figure this all out :)

That function editor ... Yet difficult to understan at the beggining, it is damn fun! I've tried this: Many of the materials that comes predefined are made using the function editor. Wth some clicks you'll learn you can make almost any material without having a tiled map of it.

It is very funt trying to do your own materilals. Just try! You can get some ideas by looking at the nodes of the predefined materials. Also, i think I saw some tutorial for the function editor at the tutorials section.

good luck!

Compared to the Materials editor in Bryce, it's a walk in the park!

I like it but it is way WAY too obscure and, pardon me, bloody stupid in some regards.

Many things cannot be done ISMPLY, the terms used, lack of precision (like c not being able to chnage degrees of rotation as DEGREES in the finction editor) and so on makes it way too damned obscure and a pain.

The basic structure is great, but all the silly Vue-non realistic made up numbers, need to GO, ASAP, ugh that's what drives me nuts. I need to be bale to input "3 metres", "rotate 90 degrees", "use greyscale fom a Vue colour gradient" and so on.

I love messing with materials, the UI system rocks, it really does, but it can be way too damned abstract that makes it impractical.

I think part of the reason it resonates with me is that i spent years as an electronics hobbyist and love schematic diagrams. Dragging components around and plugging them together is fun and familiar - and schematics are a powerful metaphor.

But to really get the most out of the Function Editor, you have to have some background in math and in math applied to computer graphics. Maybe the Function Editor and Renderer are the "Not-so-easy-but-more-professional" parts of Vue?

Which means the pros can get a lot out of them, the amateurs can leave them alone and just use the easier default menu choices and the amateur  wannabepros can use the help + the pro tools + the professional terms + their own iniative + the web, to learn the pro concepts. Because of this, i'm glad e-on is using the pro industry terminolgy and not trying to "dumb-it-down" by substituting idealized labels.

I want to learn the real thing. If i have to translate some simplistic terminology and concepts into the real industry jargon, it just makes it harder to learn.

In any case, e-on has to use standardized terminology - that's what standardization is for. Would you create a new automobile and invent your own terms for all the parts? "No, that's NOT a steering wheel - it's our patented 'BX Directional Control Yoke'".

I knew a guy who was an upper admin guy for Discreet and he made a comment that stuck with me - more often than not people are either on the creative side or technical side. They can sway a little into the other area, but it's rarely both.

Last time I opened the Function Editor I frowned and sighed, then closed it again. Never gotten much farther than that, I'm afraid.

Seems if you have a strong background in math, it's the most wonderful thing!

If you're like me - bad at math - then you'll just sit in the corner and cry...
-Lew :-

I don't think Vue's function editor is just something for math experts (although logical thinking can be highly helpful but that goes for every computer software). It's rather something for people who like to try and explore. I used the deep textures editor in Bryce for years and seeing Vues function editor the first time I was close to terrified. True, it looks complicated. Also true, once you figure out how it works - and once you do, it's amazingly straightforward and much clearer to manipulate than its Brycean counterpiece - it's a quick way to success. It's even fun because you have so much control about everything.

I started the very easy way into the function editor: opening it with materials or procedural terrains I liked and just looking at what exactly was happening there. Once you start playing with it, you really quickly achieve a high level of understanding. Wouldn't want to miss it!

Okay, I'm thinking I'll dive into the editor tonight to see if I can finally make head or tails with it - I'll cry for a while, but I'm sure I'll live.
Had reasonable success with Bryce's material editor - and now 2 of you say it's easier than Bryce so I'll give it another go.

I have found that with features like the function editor, I have to be properly motivated.  I opened it, shut it, and tried to ignore it for the longest time.  UNTIL, I REALLY wanted to create something that wasn't available any other way.  And I took the plunge.  Glad I did.  Once I was in the thick of it, I found it wasn't as bad as I had originally thought.

Lin

What I find in tresting about the function editor is that people never got into it like people got into the Bryce deep texture editor.. There were people in the Bryce world, that would spend most of their time creating amazing textures, stuff that applied to an object would look real or better...

And yet in the Vue community that whole desire to create textures that are completely extraordinary has never really taken off... Not a criticism, just an observation...  I still remember one Bryce material called flakey paint... I forget who made it... Applied to a pipe, it looked like old paint that was flaking away... The guy who did it created it for one of his scenes... Now I'm sure that there's a way to do the same thing in Vue, I'm just saying, I've never seen that kind of interest from any group of Vue users, where creating textures was an art form... Anyway, an observation, and a thought, nothing else... :)

Oh, right, majority of Vue users don't use XSI or Maya.
e-on, we have a problem! :D

I love the function editor. For simple stuff I just SWITCH to the basic editor, do what I want with ease, then SWITCH back for advanced usage. Doesn't seem hard at all.

Lol, my IQ is only 200 so I still have to struggle with the AFE; sometimes I dare to edit some existing mat but it's hard to get the desired effect. For me the Text.Edit. in Bryce was a bit easier to work with.

My most frustrated question is : Why isn't there a "wet terrain" button in Vue? (Automatically creating a tiny dark strip where rock meets water) I can't play in the AFE for hours for every rock texture I want to use...

"What I find in tresting about the function editor is that people never got into it like people got into the Bryce deep texture editor.. There were people in the Bryce world, that would spend most of their time creating amazing textures, stuff that applied to an object would look real or better..."

I totally agree! Would it be sensible to set up a separate thread dedicated to Vue textures and how to create them? I often play around in the V5I editor, and did so again this evening (as a result of this thread), but didn't come up with anything significant, alas:-((

I'm willing to spend a bit of time, starting from "basic priciples", experimenting with/exploring the texture/materials editor, if there's a dedicated thread for that... But not otherwise, I need something to "bounce off of", or I lose interest (to my own detriment, but that's my own problem..)

Anyone interested in starting (preferably with some totally new material, using only a few nodes in "simple" mode)???

PS - If I do come up with anything interesting myself in the next few days, I'll be sure to post it, but don't hold your breath - I'm a bit of a grasshopper...

Cheers,
Diolma

I've been out of the loop with Vue for a long time, so I'm not much use here... However, when I was doinga lot of projects in Vue, I always found the best results by creating my textures in other programs (photoshop, photopaint) and then bring that jpg into Vue and create a texture from that..  That's the easiest way to get  good textures, not knowing wha tyou're going to get from the functions...

I think that the problem of  creating great textures in Vue is that  nobody , including the folks at Eon, have ever come out with literature strictly dedicated to creating textures... I mean, that could take up a book on it's own...  

In Bryce, there was Susan Kitchens who wrote great manuals on all aspects of Bryce... We really need dedicated thrid party books by people who know what they're doing that will walk people step by step on how to create multiple usable textures and explain it thouroughly... But I don't think that there's ever going to be any 3rd party books for Vue... 

Also, it would be nice if  Eon updated the textures in  Vue ... I understand that in Version 5, the textures for Vue not been updated.. So, they're basically using the same textures that were used since Vue 3...