Quote - Point 3...No one is knocking anyone's preferences, just looking for more options. I love Blackhearted and Rio... and think Micki and Koji are right on time.

You might not have been knocking anyone else's preferences.  But I wouldn't say that "no one" was.  Some others quite clearly were.

Quote - The number of long legged hollywood breasted Fairy/ vampire/tribal tattoo covered /jolie lipped characters resulting from vicki, makes me wonder, is this just what everyone likes? or simply a lack of flexibility in the base character?

It's not what everyone likes -- but it's what a lot of people like.  And it sells more products in proportion to public taste.  Most merchants will tell you this.  That's why the Marketplace looks like it does.  It's not really complicated.......but some try to make it complicated.  Primarily because the prevailing taste doesn't happen to match their own.

Quote - so...........I ask the question again,(sarcasm not needed.. doesnt render very well) does anyone have any suggestions on  generating body morphs for this character?

Please note that the sarcasm wasn't directed at you.  And I'm glad that you spotted the 'attempt' at humor.  Some don't quite manage to catch the fact that such a post isn't meant to be taken literally.

Don't get me wrong -- I have no objections whatsoever to ethnic figures; "ordinary" figures; figures showing various types of real-world human deformities; figures body-morphed in every possible way.  About the only types of figures that I ignore (not object to) are 'toon figures -- because I'm not a big 'toon fan.  However: I have nothing against those who are.

My runtime is filled with ethnic characters of every type.  The more variety that I have: the better that I like it.  That's great with me.

But what I strongly object to are the attempts that one sees from time to time to attack both the motives and the maturity of others who prefer to render attractive women in their scenes.  Or to attack the motives of certain companies who provide the community with attractive female models -- as if that were a social crime.  Yes, I object to those things very much.  But I especially object to attempts to shame us into worshipping at the altar of the modern-day secular deity of political correctness.

Others might wish to be self-consciously PC.  I prefer to be self-consciously UN-PC.

Everyone has their individual tastes & preferences -- and on this subject: that's great.  I'll never call your motives into question.  Not once.

Sarcasm only renders properly where it's appropriate.  And to direct it at you would be wrong.

As far as your central theme is concerned -- I'd suggest going over to Artzone & taking a look at V4.  She should be out soon.  I believe that she'll end up proving to be far more morphable than V3 ever dreamed of being.  And that'll be a good thing for everybody.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - > Quote -   This is not a fact. This is opinion.

If you had lived in Happy Valley for seventeen years, you too would be entitled to call it a fact.
Karr's innocence in the Ramsey case was a fact before the Boulder Buffoons discovered it.
:) M

point 1: feeling entitled to label an supported supposition a fact doesn't make it so.

The Cartesian distinction between a fact and an opinion is dogma, not fact. All expressions of fact are tainted with opinion; many opinions are founded firmly and unshakably on facts. And let me interrupt this quibble to point out that most of us do not take the phrase, "Fact is" literally. But it the Cartesian world, literally is all you got.

Quote - point 2 : the second element has what relevance?

If I had said, "Karr is innocent" three days ago, that would have been sniffed at as "one person's opinion." And so it is. It also turned out to be a fact. Fancy that. Those of us who were not surprised must have luckier opinions than others. Our fact is independent of whether your opinion agrees with it.

M
 

A Cartesian?  Bah!!!
The empirical mode is much better, :D

Oh, Xen, Xen, I feel so chastened. I think I'll run over to WalMart and buy a laudatory biography of Dick Cheney, read it quickly, then tear up the pages and toss them into a pristine wilderness!

You are right, of course. People who think hooters the size of Australia are a feminine ideal are just guys with preferences. Holy Moses, who could think otherwise except a liberal traitor obsessed with political correctness???

Kissy kissy.
M

Quote - [

The number of long legged hollywood breasted Fairy/ vampire/tribal tattoo covered /jolie lipped characters resulting from vicki, makes me wonder, is this just what everyone likes? or simply a lack of flexibility in the base character?
so...........I ask the question again,(sarcasm not needed.. doesnt render very well) does anyone have any suggestions on  generating body morphs for this character? preferably  an external program that would  not cause polygon matching issues.

I think a lot of the people who do fantasy art grew up with artwork from people like
Vallejo, Olivia, Frazetta, and so are trying to emulate their work.  Look at some of
that art.  Victoria has the ideal figure to emulate those characters.  Posette, Judy,
and now Jessi just don't have the morphs right out of the box to create those women.
They aren't trying to create Ethel down the street driving the kids to soccer practice,
they are trying to create Esmeralda the Gypsy Princess.

Quote - Oh, Xen, Xen, I feel so chastened. I think I'll run over to WalMart and buy a laudatory biography of Dick Cheney, read it quickly, then tear up the pages and toss them into a pristine wilderness!

That's a unique idea for recycling paper.  Not to mention that it would provide superb nesting material for small animals.  Excellent enviromentally-friendly idea.

Quote - You are right, of course. People who think hooters the size of Australia are a feminine ideal are just guys with preferences. Holy Moses, who could think otherwise except a liberal traitor obsessed with political correctness???

Personally, I find that "hooters the size of Australia" look deformed.  There it is.  I'll go further and also grant you that gigantic "hooters" can be offered up to us as an entirely unhealthy obsession.  I certainly won't argue the point that women can be objectified.  But for that matter: so can men.  People of any type can be objectified.  And while admitting that various body types & the attraction to them are in the eye of the beholder -- it still remains that there is a generally accepted ideal.  This is the world & the reality that we live in.  Perfectly natural inclinations cannot be pointed to as a reason for condemnation.  Because if they are: then we are all equally condemned.  The problem here stems from an apparent desire to place everyone whose tastes follow the generally accepted ideal into a condemned category.

Personal taste is personal taste.

Attempts to force people to adhere to some other mode of thnking  will always fail in the end.  However: such attempts at enforced mental bondage contrary to free nature can and do sometimes succeed in making life into a living hell for many, many people.  Unless, of course, if one wishes to immigrate to North Korea.  While the topic that we are discussing here certainly doesn't rise anywhere near the level of North Korean regimentation -- it can be extended to show the same sort of principles in operation in a microcosm.

PC'ism is just another form of mental bondage.  And I'm a conservative with libertarian leanings.  So the smell of PC is offensive.

Quote - > Quote - Oh, Xen, Xen, I feel so chastened. I think I'll run over to WalMart and buy a laudatory biography of Dick Cheney, read it quickly, then tear up the pages and toss them into a pristine wilderness!

That's a unique idea for recycling paper.  Not to mention that it would provide superb nesting material for small animals.  Excellent enviromentally-friendly idea.

Quote - You are right, of course. People who think hooters the size of Australia are a feminine ideal are just guys with preferences. Holy Moses, who could think otherwise except a liberal traitor obsessed with political correctness???

Personally, I find that "hooters the size of Australia" look deformed.  There it is.  I'll go further and also grant you that gigantic "hooters" can be offered up to us as an entirely unhealthy obsession.  I certainly won't argue the point that women can be objectified.  But for that matter: so can men.  People of any type can be objectified.  And while admitting that various body types & the attraction to them are in the eye of the beholder -- it still remains that there is a generally accepted ideal.  This is the world & the reality that we live in.  Perfectly natural inclinations cannot be pointed to as a reason for condemnation.  Because if they are: then we are all equally condemned.  The problem here stems from an apparent desire to place everyone whose tastes follow the generally accepted ideal into a condemned category.

Personal taste is personal taste.

Attempts to force people to adhere to some other mode of thnking  will always fail in the end.  However: such attempts at enforced mental bondage contrary to free nature can and do sometimes succeed in making life into a living hell for many, many people.  Unless, of course, if one wishes to immigrate to North Korea.  While the topic that we are discussing here certainly doesn't rise anywhere near the level of North Korean regimentation -- it can be extended to show the same sort of principles in operation in a microcosm.

PC'ism is just another form of mental bondage.  And I'm a conservative with libertarian leanings.  So the smell of PC is offensive.

I think you make a great argument.....it is so great in fact that it perfectly finds grounding in what i have been saying all along, and that is no one should have the Vicki ideal forced down thier throats. creating a character that limits you to this ideal does just that.

Your argument attempts to turn the whole issure around as if Vicki as a mesh is under attack and  needs some type of defending. you further go on to say that there is a generally accepted ideal...which is again, the point I raise, accepted by whom?  I can tell you that when my friends and i go to clubs, one of the most fun things to do is bust on each other about how our idea of "sexy" often breaks down along racial lines.... example... White guys like long skinny legs,   Latino and Black guys tend to like thicker much more curvy type...asian guys like something else etc...etc...... now keep in mind im talking about amongst my friends, this is what ive seen. vicki as a "generally accepted ideal, follows very closely the fantasy of mainly my white hanging buddies...so If you mean the accepted ideal of white guys.... I might accept that.....Are you sure you dont work at Daz? lol!  nothing wrong with vicki or those who like what she is. there is something terribly wrong with this idea of a generally accepted ideal.   hopefully daz gets a clue in V4 and gives you your standard vicki, but at least provides usable morphs for the rest of us. maybe a start would be making her about 5'4". shes been very tall for all her versions thus far.

Oh, I suspect that V4 will prove to be highly adaptable.  She'll probably morph just about any way that you want.

As I've indicated earlier -- I've got characters in my runtime from many different ethnicities.  The more the merrier.

You are sort of missing my point here -- you don't see semi-regular complaints being posted in the forums over the taste of those who prefer various races/ethnicities.  That's not the issue.  Rather: the vocal complaints tend to be directed towards those whose tastes extend to Victoria.  And it's said that you tend to hear from the unhappy.

You've got your taste?  Your buds have their tastes?  Great.

An ideal accepted by whom?  What sells.......sells.  And far more than the rest.  There is a reason.  And it's not because of the pseudo-arguments that some people attempt to come up with in order to explain it all away.

I'd never dream of saying that "this is the way that a woman should look".  But I wouldn't hesitate to point out (truthfully) that it's the ideal......empirically for the majority of the male population.

Is a person's intrinsic worth decided upon such factors?  Absolutely not.  That's offensive, too.  But hey: most of us don't possess Hollywood-star looks ourselves.  Life just isn't fair.  The best thing to do is to not worry about it.  Look at what you've got -- not at what someone else has.  If people could do this simple thing, then they'd be a lot happier -- and a lot less inclined to constantly whine about other people's personal tastes.  Whining about what "they" are doing won't make "them" change their behavior.  It'll just increase the unhappiness of the complainer once they see that for all of their bitter words -- in matters of personal taste: other people will still go ahead and do what they are gonna do.  And they aren't going to ask for permission or approval to do it.

V4 will probably be a great mesh for body-shaping as needed.

Quote - Oh, I suspect that V4 will prove to be highly adaptable.  She'll probably morph just about any way that you want.

As I've indicated earlier -- I've got characters in my runtime from many different ethnicities.  The more the merrier.

You are sort of missing my point here -- you don't see semi-regular complaints being posted in the forums over the taste of those who prefer various races/ethnicities.  That's not the issue.  Rather: the vocal complaints tend to be directed towards those whose tastes extend to Victoria.  And it's said that you tend to hear from the unhappy.

You've got your taste?  Your buds have their tastes?  Great.

An ideal accepted by whom?  What sells.......sells.  And far more than the rest.  There is a reason.  And it's not because of the pseudo-arguments that some people attempt to come up with in order to explain it all away.

I'd never dream of saying that "this is the way that a woman should look".  But I wouldn't hesitate to point out (truthfully) that it's the ideal......empirically for the majority of the male population.

Is a person's intrinsic worth decided upon such factors?  Absolutely not.  That's offensive, too.  But hey: most of us don't possess Hollywood-star looks ourselves.  Life just isn't fair.  The best thing to do is to not worry about it.  Look at what you've got -- not at what someone else has.  If people could do this simple thing, then they'd be a lot happier -- and a lot less inclined to constantly whine about other people's personal tastes.  Whining about what "they" are doing won't make "them" change their behavior.  It'll just increase the unhappiness of the complainer once they see that for all of their bitter words -- in matters of personal taste: other people will still go ahead and do what they are gonna do.  And they aren't going to ask for permission or approval to do it.

V4 will probably be a great mesh for body-shaping as needed.

I got your point my friend, and maybe you are right, that people do post attacks on vicki lovers..lol! but the point of THIS post was not that.... and  it certainly isnt my point, so im going to assume that you werent implying that I was whining.
As far as what sells...are you making a comparative statement? sells compared to what? a more realistically proportioned daz product? well, that product hasnt happend yet. compared to miki? well miki is a very successful productin her own right.
 Vicki sells because she is all that Daz has chosen to put out that is poser targeted. not because she has long skinny legs.
You know, we may not share taste in women, (which i know wasnt the point as well) but i suspect I would enjoy discussing this with you in one of those clubs over a beer.
As far as V4/Daz being anthing more than a further tweaked version of the current somatotype, ill believe it when I see it....... thier thought process in what they told me says it all.

But you feel free  to enjoy.  you certainly have AMPLE opportunity. lol!

MIki is also cute in her own right.....and so Miki has developed a larger-than-most-other-figures (except for Victoria) fan base.  That's an example of the "Victoria Effect" in operation -- not an argument against it.

And yeah -- I suspect that when it comes to V4 -- seeing will be believing.

Quote - I'd never dream of saying that "this is the way that a woman should look".  But I wouldn't hesitate to point out (truthfully) that it's the ideal......empirically for the majority of the male population.

The rule in neocon thinking is that first we define "the majority" as ourselves. Then if someone points out that white "majority" is slipping fast, we summon the spirit of St. Paddy of the Bog Trash (of which I am one, by the way) to excoriate mud people under various euphemisms.

The argument that what white middle-class media ram down our throat is the ideal because it's what white middle-class media ram down our throat is, well, we call it "circular." Vicki is the ideal the way you define "ideal," of the majority the way you define "majority," of males the way you define "males." You are wrong on all three counts.

The "ideal" is what we love, not what we drool on. The "majority" is all people, not just the ones who fit your definition by sharing your prejudices. And you don't get to be "male" until your values grow up.

Mick

There we go with that dreaded "neocon" label again -- I suspect that anything not to your taste is "neocon" in origin.  Kind of along the same lines as a somewhat elderly woman that I know.........to her, anyone that she doesn't happen to like or agree with gets labeled "lazy".  Even when, given the context of the discussion, the term "lazy" is utterly meaningless.

"Neocon" is a shadowy political term of dubious origin.  These days, it's a term which is used constantly by a lot of confirmed anti-semites.  Some of them use it to mean "a conservative supporter of Israel".  But at its base -- it's basically a derogatory term meaning "conservative Jew".  And I'm not Jewish.  But I am a conservative supporter of Israel.

So what relevance the term "neocon" has to do with the present discussion escapes me.  If you are looking for an insulting term to use against your opponents, then you can borrow the favorite label of my old-lady acquaintance.  "Lazy" will do the job just as well -- and it'll be just as on-topic for the purpose.  Also -- it's easier to pronounce than "neocon".  Shorter, too.  You can save yourself some typing time.

This isn't a racial issue.  But I'd like to point out which side it was that dragged the issue of race into it.

Miki is attractive, too.  I've said that: in case if I didn't make it clear the first time around.  And you don't "become male" by "your values growing up" -- whatever that means.  I suppose that -- loosely interpeted -- it means "when you agree with me"........and that ain't gonna happen.

Quote - There we go with that dreaded "neocon" label again -- I suspect that anything not to your taste is "neocon" in origin.  Kind of along the same lines as a somewhat elderly woman that I know.........to her, anyone that she doesn't happen to like or agree with gets labeled "lazy".  Even when, given the context of the discussion, the term "lazy" is utterly meaningless.

"Neocon" is a shadowy political term of dubious origin.  These days, it's a term which is used constantly by a lot of confirmed anti-semites.  Some of them use it to mean "a conservative supporter of Israel".  But at its base -- it's basically a derogatory term meaning "conservative Jew".  And I'm not Jewish.  But I am a conservative supporter of Israel.

So what relevance the term "neocon" has to do with the present discussion escapes me.  If you are looking for an insulting term to use against your opponents, then you can borrow the favorite label of my old-lady acquaintance.  "Lazy" will do the job just as well -- and it'll be just as on-topic for the purpose.  Also -- it's easier to pronounce than "neocon".  Shorter, too.  You can save yourself some typing time.

This isn't a racial issue.  But I'd like to point out which side it was that dragged the issue of race into it.

Miki is attractive, too.  I've said that: in case if I didn't make it clear the first time around.  And you don't "become male" by "your values growing up" -- whatever that means.  I suppose that -- loosely interpeted -- it means "when you agree with me"........and that ain't gonna happen.

IT was I who brought up the race issue,as it was eqivalent to the shape and variety issue. and by the way, im on no one's side. In fact, i carefully brought it up with reluctance, hoping to avoid this degrading into what it has. The term "PC" has no more to do with the original point than the term "neocon" ...or "lazy"....
As mentioned before, I agree that you have the right to like Vicki as she is. that also had nothing to do with the original point.
Its always amusing to me, how those unaffected by an issue are often the first to tell those affected how they should feel about said issue.
The different "Ethnicities" you have in your runtime folder are simply new textures with Vicky underneath. far from authentic. If that works for you... fine. ..... but in case I didnt make it clear last three times, im hoping someone has ideas on altering the body proportions. do you have any opinions in THAT regard?

belalarue --

Don't misinterpret arrows which are aimed at someone else as being aimed at you.  I haven't seen any evidence of your being a PC-shill; nor have you made any detectable not-so-subtle hints at someone else being a closet racist.  Or at least I haven't interpreted what you've said in that way.  That's all come from elsewhere.  You've not impressed me as the type who tends to favor such methods of argument.  That is to say: the standard lib methodology of attacking your opponent's motives & engaging in name-calling, rather than dealing with the facts of the case.

But I will say that I wish that your reluctance to bring the subject up would have prevailed -- because the (at least) indirect implications of.......like maybe someone is a racist, or else motivated by racist underpinnings........are hovering around in the background.  And a 'discussion' which ends up heading in that direction can quickly go into the intellectual dumper.  When anyone refuses to grant their opponent the courtesy of allowing them the pure sincerity of their opinions without suggesting that they must have underlying evil (insert dramatic horror-movie music here) motivations for holding to those opinions..........then 'debating' is no longer what you are doing.

Using epitaphs like 'neocon' in an attempt to label your opponent -- and thus discredit their points by smearing their motives -- quickly leads into an intellectual black hole from which the "discussion" can usually never return.  After that: it can all become nothing more than a matter of hurling personal insults.  Speaking of 6th-grade boys on a playground..........

BTW - if my esteemed opponent wishes to use the "implied racism" card -- then I'll be happy to call the bet -- and to raise the ante on him.  In fact, I'll be happy to throw the entire deck in his face.  "Neocon".......yeah, right.  He's in good company, using a term like that one.  There are certain groups who just LOVE to use that silly codeword all of the time.

And it seems to be one of his favorite words.  I wonder why?

BTW - if they choose to make a base figure that looks like Tyra Banks, then I'll be more than happy to add the model to my runtime.  But that's the thing about meshes.  They can be meshed pretty much any way that you like.

Quote - belalarue --

Don't misinterpret arrows which are aimed at someone else as being aimed at you.  I haven't seen any evidence of your being a PC-shill; nor have you made any detectable not-so-subtle hints at someone else being a closet racist.  Or at least I haven't interpreted what you've said in that way.  That's all come from elsewhere.  You've not impressed me as the type who tends to favor such methods of argument.  That is to say: the standard lib methodology of attacking your opponent's motives & engaging in name-calling, rather than dealing with the facts of the case.

But I will say that I wish that your reluctance to bring the subject up would have prevailed -- because the (at least) indirect implications of.......like maybe someone is a racist, or else motivated by racist underpinnings........are hovering around in the background.  And a 'discussion' which ends up heading in that direction can quickly go into the intellectual dumper.  When anyone refuses to grant their opponent the courtesy of allowing them the pure sincerity of their opinions without suggesting that they must have underlying evil (insert dramatic horror-movie music here) motivations for holding to those opinions..........then 'debating' is no longer what you are doing.

Using epitaphs like 'neocon' in an attempt to label your opponent -- and thus discredit their points by smearing their motives -- quickly leads into an intellectual black hole from which the "discussion" can usually never return.  After that: it can all become nothing more than a matter of hurling personal insults.  Speaking of 6th-grade boys on a playground..........

BTW - if my esteemed opponent wishes to use the "implied racism" card -- then I'll be happy to call the bet -- and to raise the ante on him.  In fact, I'll be happy to throw the entire deck in his face.  "Neocon".......yeah, right.  He's in good company, using a term like that one.  There are certain groups who just LOVE to use that silly codeword all of the time.

And it seems to be one of his favorite words.  I wonder why?

BTW - if they choose to make a base figure that looks like Tyra Banks, then I'll be more than happy to add the model to my runtime.  But that's the thing about meshes.  They can be meshed pretty much any way that you like.

GREAT!!!! maybe we can still get that beer one day after all lol! but i gotta tell you, interjecting "race" is different from implying "racism" and it was done before your first rsponse, so you willingly walked into it before my reluctance subsided. additionally, by wanting me to not bring it up, does that not border on wanting me to be pc?
while i do have strong feelings and thoughts on the socially relevent sides of this issue,  I just dont think this is the time or place for them.

.  I have no doubt that you'd rush to get a TYRA mesh... after all,shes tall and got skinny legs "all the way to heaven" hahaha! on the issue of making vicki into whatever you want.... lets just strongly agree to strongly disagree.

we really should get that beer, you're alot of fun to spar with, but i m not sure that other members are enjoying this.

@belalarue

“..hoping someone has ideas on altering the body proportions”.

Well in one of your earlier post you said you were playing with Zbrush, so in my opinion you already have one of (if not the best) tool for shaping body/face proportions.

You expressed concern about changing the polygon count (and morphs not working) with some software…

In Zbrush you can take the mesh up one or two “levels” (which subdivides the hell out of it) and work with an incredibly dense mesh to get detail.

Then bring it back down to level one and the resulting morphs will work just fine (no change from the original poly-count)!

While people get very worked up about how a particular mesh looks, I look at the mesh as nothing more than a primitive (with rigging) waiting to be shaped to my likings.

Admittedly I don’t use Vic3 very much, but prefer the Laura3 (Young Teen) version of the unimesh (technically the same mesh).

I’m not being anti-Vicky, but I find three things more compelling working with the L3 version mesh.

1. While underdeveloped for an adult mesh, I find her body proportions (limbs, torso, shoulder scaling, etc.) closer to a real human than Vic3.
2. The shoulders don’t need nearly as much work as the V3 mesh.
3. Being an underdeveloped (not as shapely) figure, I find I get more pleasing results by pulling a mesh out to shape as opposed to pushing one into shape.

Don’t know if that makes any sense but an example would be, making Laura’s small breast larger and shapely is easier than making V3’s large breast smaller with a good shape (more aesthetic than technical I guess).

L3 is only my personal preference, but it doesn’t really matter which mesh you choose, as with the software you have (Zbrush, Mudbox) you can make whatever you want…just dig in and learn them.

Hope my rambling helps some,

SWAMP

Quote - we really should get that beer, you're alot of fun to spar with, but i m not sure that other members are enjoying this.

 Oh......some members are enjoying it, and some aren't.  That "Rendersensualosity" (sp?) thread is getting more hits than this one is.  So perhaps upon that basis we can gauge what the membership is more interested in..........

You'll have to make that beer into either water or a soft drink for me: as I am what they call a tee-totaller.  But I'd be happy to discuss these issues with you in a social situation.  I get the sense that you are a right guy.

Quote - While people get very worked up about how a particular mesh looks, I look at the mesh as nothing more than a primitive (with rigging) waiting to be shaped to my likings.

SWAMP - you've said far more with that one line than most ........

Quote - Hope my rambling helps some, SWAMP

Your "rambling" got right to the essence of this thead.  That might be the 1st time that I've ever seen such an excellent techincal answer to a "social ills" type thread.

Thanks. :thumbupboth:

Quote - @belalarue

“..hoping someone has ideas on altering the body proportions”.

Well in one of your earlier post you said you were playing with Zbrush, so in my opinion you already have one of (if not the best) tool for shaping body/face proportions.

You expressed concern about changing the polygon count (and morphs not working) with some software…

In Zbrush you can take the mesh up one or two “levels” (which subdivides the hell out of it) and work with an incredibly dense mesh to get detail.

Then bring it back down to level one and the resulting morphs will work just fine (no change from the original poly-count)!

 

While people get very worked up about how a particular mesh looks, I look at the mesh as nothing more than a primitive (with rigging) waiting to be shaped to my likings.

Admittedly I don’t use Vic3 very much, but prefer the Laura3 (Young Teen) version of the unimesh (technically the same mesh).

I’m not being anti-Vicky, but I find three things more compelling working with the L3 version mesh.

1. While underdeveloped for an adult mesh, I find her body proportions (limbs, torso, shoulder scaling, etc.) closer to a real human than Vic3.
2. The shoulders don’t need nearly as much work as the V3 mesh.
3. Being an underdeveloped (not as shapely) figure, I find I get more pleasing results by pulling a mesh out to shape as opposed to pushing one into shape.

Don’t know if that makes any sense but an example would be, making Laura’s small breast larger and shapely is easier than making V3’s large breast smaller with a good shape (more aesthetic than technical I guess).

L3 is only my personal preference, but it doesn’t really matter which mesh you choose, as with the software you have (Zbrush, Mudbox) you can make whatever you want…just dig in and learn them.

 

Hope my rambling helps some,

SWAMP

 

THANX!!! Just what i was hoping for! Mudbox demo indicates a much more intuitve interface and process than Zbrush, but Im guessing the end results would be similar.somehow, i wasnt aware that you could simply output to level one after the surface had been subdivided...without a polygon change. this simplifies things quite a bit. much appreciation for your input!

 

Quote - > Quote - While people get very worked up about how a particular mesh looks, I look at the mesh as nothing more than a primitive (with rigging) waiting to be shaped to my likings.

SWAMP - you've said far more with that one line than most ........

Quote - Hope my rambling helps some, SWAMP

Your "rambling" got right to the essence of this thead.  That might be the 1st time that I've ever seen such an excellent techincal answer to a "social ills" type thread.

Thanks. :thumbupboth:

I definately agree but with one caveat......if you are using zbrush or any such THIRD PARTY program to rework a mesh, then you are going beyond what DAZ had intended for the mesh in terms of its  capabilities.  Anyone well versed in these external resources that wasnt satisfied with vicki would of course then have options.... and consequently view her as just a starting point mesh.....Water or juice....it's on me man.