(The attached screengrab shows that the eyes have not only 5 separate surfaces, i.e., Sclera, Iris, Eye Surface, Cornea and Pupil, but separate UV's for each, as well.)
I have to wonder why all the eye surfaces except the "sclera" (which is attached to the iris - sorta) are mapped planar, with the vertex points spread out evenly.
Every part of the eye is more or less spheric, yet the Sclera was not mapped out as such.
(The cornea is a cover, meant to be transparent, with a certain amount of specularity and refraction for the sake of realism in closeups, and, unless you need trans or spec maps, having it UV'd is pointless.
But the real important part of it all is the Iris and how well it merges with the Sclera, when it comes to painting or applying photos...
How does one go about painting over this, or applying a photo?
maybe you don't, unless you're DAZ, and have a plan for that.....

I just bought the pro bundle tonight, after downloading the free v4 base. I figured I might as well, since it's on sale, plus with my vouchers, etc, I got the whole set for 43 bucks. Can't beat that.

I only played around with her for maybe a total of an hour and I already like her WAY more than v3. I really didn't expect to even have much interest in v4. I still don't like her shoulders, but just playing with the facial morphs for v4, I came up with this character. While I'm sure I could tweak some things here and there if I spent more time, I don't think there's anything ugly about her at all. She's rather cute, in fact.

You should take advantage of the free v4 base while you have the chance. Even if you don't have an interest in her right now, later on you might and then you'll have to actually buy her at full price before you can use anything you might find that you want.

But just experimenting with her a little bit here has me interested. I'll most likely be making some of my own stuff for her pretty soon.

~E.D.

I have to agree that the Base V4 is not the prettiestlady in the office, but she isn't terrible.  My first gallery post is a true example of ugly, though.  I learnt very quickly that using the available morphs (I've got eh Pro Bundle) it takes some time to dial a pretty face.  My second go was much better.

(If anyone is thinking of stopping by my gallery to take a look, be forwarned they are nudes.)

My third render with V4 is her base face and it is done with Sydney at her side for comparison.

Anyway, my point is that though, V4 is not pretty to begin with and though she requires completely relearning how to dial-a-face, she has a ton of obvious flexibility.  I believe she is a vast improvement over V3, but it will be months before we really get to see that reflected in galleries and products.

Yes, there are annoying and weird things about her, but they can be worked around or eventually some clever merchant will invent a product to help us along.

I'm happy with my V4 purchase, she is the future and I have no doubts there.

Its her eyes that put me off in most pix I have seen. Although that might be more the texture than the shape they seem dead to me and what mostly makes me grimmace is this bizzare trend to have freakishly shiny eyes, like someone took out her eyeballs gave them several coats of hot wax them buffed them for a few hours coated them in olive oil and popped them back in  (that would also explain the vast amount of red veins I see also...LOL)

I have been out of the loop for a while, but many of the pix I have seen of V4 look kinda clunky to me and almost posette 'ish. 

She doesn't buzz my buttons, but its very very early days. We've had V3 for a long time and I suppose when you have invested alot of time and effort not to mention pennies - its hard to let go or even make room for something new, V3 has become very comfy and I know where I am with  the figure, I may yet buy V4 but i'll probably wait until there is more bits n bobs for her and a way of converting V3 body textures - I love to make V3 textures but one look at V4's texture guide and YIKES!!! looks like a seam matching nightmare LOL.

Well, i've rambled on - time for a nice cuppa and crumpets. :biggrin:

Yeah about the first thing I did with her was figure out how to tone that down.  It also took quite a bit of effort to get the trick of really changing her eyes without just making them look bad.

While certainly not the high point of art, my last few gallery pics of Victoria 4 do not resemble Posette in the slightest (at least to me).  The builtin morphs + the P7 morphing tool are a pretty strong combination, and the mesh she is built on is just very tough and resistant to creasing.

I still don't get why people are making a big deal out of how pretty or ugly or whatever the default face is, it's not like most people would want to use that very often, right?  Personally I'd just as soon she had a face like a cueball when you started.

xeniaghost - I think it depends on what you've been up to?  I believe the reason for you dislike with V4, is that we're spoiled by V3.  V3 has been around for quite sometime, support for her is huge, she has an enormous following!  Unfortunately not enough people have had near enough time to impact a whole community with V4, as has happened with V3; and I feel that pot wo'nt be sweat with our creative juices, for at least another year from now, maybe more...

On the other hand if you're just starting out with Poser,(and hav'nt spent the past year, or more,  working on V3...) then you do'nt have any loose ends to tie up.  In that case I would fully recommend purchasing V4!  It would make a wonderful learning experience; I'm sure, and I'll highly doubt you'll ever be disappointed! 

...then do not buy v4??

i know things will definitely improve for V4 in the next year or two and she will get better but time is an issue with everything being on sale at the moment so if i don't get her now, she will full price soon. i have been using V3 for several years so i got a lot of stuff for her and it will be a big upheaval although i know i won't disregard V3 immediately if i do purchase V4. Also does this mean that A4, SP4, M4 and D4 will be released soon?

I do hope for M4 as soon as he's read,...  I've gotten fond of using Ambient Occlusion to kill nostril glow but for some reason when you inject Vittorio's morph it takes out one of the Nostril/Nostrils material zones and leaves a hole where light will show through (need to mail the creator about that I guess).  Plus the morphs are laid out kind of old-school in an un-organized fashion, and I ended up doing a lot of scrolling around to find things, which was one of the things I liked a lot about V4 - the organization of morphs into trees.

Don't worry, xeniaghost, V4 has a lot more promise then SP3 ever did (yeah, I'm not a big fan of her's either).  I think we will be seeing some great stuff for V4, too many talented merchants and too much riding on this fig.

Also, I do believe they are in the works on your above mentioned characters.  I suspect M4 will be next.  I'm not looking forward to a new Aiko, I really like A3 a lot, but again, a new mesh never means you have to retire your old ones.

My advice would be to get V4 while the sale is on, but then again, there might be an even better sale in March, so who knows?  As I said, I'm happy with my purchase, and I see a bright future for the character.

Quote - If i owned a copy of V4, i wouldn't be asking for opinions about her. i'm going on the images i i'm not made of money.

Make your life easy
DONT BUY THE NEW  "V4" MODEL!!

use V3 SP3 A3  etc.
and be happy

seeking to be "convinced" by  "the community"
is as pointless as  walking into an ice cream parlor and demanding
to know why you should "invest " in Chocolate as opposed
to  vanilla, pistachio etc.

Ha!  Wolf, you are so right.

Quote - i know everyone has their own idea of beauty and life would be boring if everyone looked the same and perfect, but it's definitely something with V4's eyes that is wrong and she seems to have a round face. Personally i just think so far, V3 and A3 are a lot more attractive in comparison. So now i've opened a can of worms with V4, what's Sydney like?

Here is something Sydney can be like (NUDITY WARNING) Yasmina There are some images up at Rdna in the forum posted by Colm who worked on Sydney that are quite true to what I found her to be like. I was trying out a different body type than what I usually do and was very pleased with the results. I did use the Rdna morphs too as I have liked things Colm has done in the past so bought them straight away . The Sydney face has a distinct look too, quite different than V4. I find it hard personally to get very far away from any figures 'look' without using ZBrush to morph the mesh or the Liguify filter in Photoshop. I tried a similar image to the one I posted with V4 : - I like V4s new bodygroup movements via 'morphforms' a lot though Sydney is easier to pose too compared to earlier figures - I like V4 feet better than Sydney's - I like Sydneys default texture better than those that came with V4Pro. -For the moment I'll use Sydney more..... but later on ? I think the more the merrier anyway. I still like V2 and M2. And Apollo. They are what I have used the most until now. It would be tough to make an either/or decision between V4 and Sydney. But at least the latter comes with Poser if money is the issue. I'm personally happier to have spent $25 on extra morphs for Sydney so far than am with what I spent on V4Pro.

A friend of mine listened to be describe this debate and laughed.  "That's like a sculptor saying, 'Damn that's one ugly piece of clay!  I refuse to make a pot out of that!!'"  Had to agree.

Quote - "My advice would be to get V4 while the sale is on, but then again, there might be an even better sale in March, so who knows? As I said, I'm happy with my purchase, and I see a bright future for the character." i think i will have to buy V4 eventually as before long V3 will be forgotton about and merchants will no longer use her so i don't really have a choice in the matter. i just wish i could find her attractive. @pjz99 If you think this debate is so pointless, don't comment!

You know Xeniaghost the EXACT same things you are talking about with V4 are the SAME problems with all the other figures.  Look at Aiko.  She's BUTT UGLY out fo the box yet you seem to 'love' her.  The debate IS pointless because, no matter what anyone says here, you've already made up your mind.  You asked for opinions and then dismissed any opinion that did not agree with the one YOU ALREADY MADE out of hand.  Makes you wonder what your true point in starting this thread was because you don't really sound like you wanted opinions - only for people to agree with you.

i do have an opinion about V4 and from what i've seen, she is quite ugly compared to other characters, so i have made up my mind. Out the box, so are most of the characters but at least they can look really good with some work on (except for SP3!) i wanted other peoples' opinions about V4 because i really wanted to be proved wrong and someone to show me a character that was stunning, but so far no one has. Some are nice enough but i'm still disappointed. i'm trying to decide whether to blow money on her and i know with time she will improve, so i'm resigned to the fact i will have to purchase her eventually but i'm still not convinced she's got an attractive face and ever will have so i will stick with V3 as long as i can.

Quote - @pjz99 If you think this debate is so pointless, don't comment!

you know, that's really good advice, appreciate that.

The difference I find, is when I purchased V3, I loved her IMMEDIATELY.   There were so many injections, really with some patience you could totally create thousands of different body styles..... especially the ethnic injections.   Norse?  yay!!!  French?  More yay!!  Native american!! woot!

Granted packages may or may not come out in the future, but V3 was "good to go" from day one.  Her "default" was ....... BEATEN by the ugly tree.  Her base textures....... Oie!!!   But still, it could be worked around.

I'm just finding i'm not having that instant attraction or desire to use V4.  Though I have loaded her, in less than a day, I'm almost totally bored.

Done with her morph package and playing with it, I went to, dare I say it, the face room with Jessi.  You know, I've had poser 6 I don't know how long and its the first time i put her in there....

I was litterally stupified to realize.....  Holy moley!  I could create any kind of face i really wanted.  The only exception the nose, though, even that now I'm toying with and realise..... I'd been missing out on a complete wealth of ability with Jessi.

If I ever get back down to my big comp and not the laptop, I'll render something out, for an example.  I think I'm back in love with Jessi again........ and who knows, possibly James too!

V4 will be the new standard.  Sure, I'll use other figures on occasion.  But V4 will quickly become the "IT" girl for the majority of the community.

9 out of 10 of the "pros" seem to like her.  And that fact alone says something.

As for totally subjective judgements over her out-of-the-box looks -- shrug -- I never used the default V3 either.  And I won't be using the default V4.  So, quite frankly, her out-of-the-box looks are utterly without meaning.

*"Of what use is a newborn baby?"- Benjamin Franklin, on the Montgolfier Brothers (sp?) balloon.
    * I'm sure V3 wasn't that versatile less than a week after release..;)
"Beauty is skin deep, but ugly goes straight to the bone" -Southern Saying..;)

My God, have some folks forgotten how ugly all the Vicky's are without textures and morphs??

I got the full pack, her and her morphs. After trying her in P7, couldn't get it to render, I put her in DS. (The render problem is some error on my part since I also tried with James and it wouldn't render.) Her body came out nice, her face quite pretty once she had hair and the render was fine. Next I took her into Poser Pro and worked there. She loaded quicker than V3, rendered quicker than V3 and I was able to make my own pose (full body) without any difficulty. For what it's woth, I think she is worth the money if you're planning on making items or textures to sell or even if you just want to make images as a hobby.

i hope you like the ipod. as for v4 i agree on her appearing ugly but if she were a dog not much hope for her if she entered crufts.still merchants will help and as new year is around corner someone may help towards the purchase of v4 or maybe not.

Quote - She haves a very cool new features and a new way of mapping i have never seen before really.

It will be VERY familiar to anyone who has a copy of Apollo Max. In face Sydney and V4 both look like they borrow heavily from techniques Anton was using in Apollo years ago.

One of the reasons I currently prefer Sydney is because the faceroom frees me from having to wait for people to produce endless sets of slightly different mores that step all over each other.  Similarly I am pretty much gonna go to dynamic clothing and hair.

I am REALLY tired of the "buy a new morph, break my clothing" treadmill. The technology is there to get off but it wont happen if we keep buying stuff that doesn't use it.

Quote - I was litterally stupified to realize.....  Holy moley!  I could create any kind of face i really wanted.  The only exception the nose, though, even that now I'm toying with and realise..... I'd been missing out on a complete wealth of ability with Jessi.

The face room is a hidden gem in there really. Between the face room, the new shaping tools and dynamic cloth there is really no reason to have to buy endless sets of morphs any more.

Quote - One of the reasons I currently prefer Sydney is because the faceroom frees me from having to wait for people to produce endless sets of slightly different mores that step all over each other.  Similarly I am pretty much gonna go to dynamic clothing and hair.

Be aware that P7 cloth room has some bad bugs in it.  Apparently hitting cancel button can cause textures to go nuts and in my case it was the probable cause for corruption of a scene file.

You know, Xenia, if you want people to be open, helpful, honest and friendly, it's generally better not to be impolite.

Pretty much every post you've made in this thread has been abrupt, condescending or downright rude. You've asked people for their opinions and they've given them. Next time they may not bother.

The only comments i have made that have been impolite have been in retaliation to rude or condescending comments made to me. i asked for opinions to help me make up my mind before spending a lot of money but now i've got an iPod instead, i don't care anymore.

I've got one on it's way to me too!!    I love iTunes, no really I do, and it will be cool to use that interface to get my music organizing done.  I have an mp3 player but I'm going to load up some music I think my mom will like and send that on to her to have.  Maybe not.... still thinking on it.  Might be too hard for her to get her head around.  Not as easy as iPods are to use.... :sad:

In the end, the whole thing depends on whether or not you have/want to spend money on new Poser content. I have no intention on abandoning V3 for V4. V4 is just something new to play with that I got at a reasonable price because I am a PC member. I even once and awhile use V2 because I have some old, but nice characters for her. The only Poser folk I do not care for are the ones that come with Poser because, IMHO, they are homely. But that is subjective. I know artists here that still love Judy and do nice things with her. I know that some people love Jessi - I think she's ugly. Again, subjective. If money is tight and you are not sure if you want to go with V4, don't buy her until she has been out there for awhile. same goes for Poser 7. Again, just my opinion.

Quote - > Quote - She haves a very cool new features and a new way of mapping i have never seen before really.

It will be VERY familiar to anyone who has a copy of Apollo Max. In face Sydney and V4 both look like they borrow heavily from techniques Anton was using in Apollo years ago.

I hesitate to mention it, but I'm glad someone else has noticed. I see many Apolloish things in V4. There are many questions about this floating in my head. OMG, I LOVE my iPod. Mine is the green Mini. That baby goes everywhere with me. ^^ Say.... Has anyone made a iPod model? heeh heeh. Yeah, and it would be funny to have V4 wearing one. ;) bB

The thing I was most afraid of were the eyes. Well, making them slightly larger and closing the upper eyelids a bit made them, for me, much better.

Here's a quick render. I'm not there yet, but, unfortunately perhaps for merchants, she's so easy to tweak than I'll only be buying a few top-quality skins I really like.

I think they put random woman names on the various morphs you'd otherwise expect to be "Ethnic" morphs for political correctness reasons - after all there ARE more than two African-American face structures in the world.

You and I have the same issue with the eyes I think, one just has to be really careful messing with them to really get them to look different without breaking anything.  Beautiful render by the way.

re: skins the DAZ high-rez skin is pretty clearly the best available so far as I've seen, and the Jojo character pack from PoserPros is pretty good as well, the others seem to have a really bland, featureless look to them.  None have the character that Tendom's or Blackhearted/Rio's skins do for V3 (looking forward to offerings from those two for sure)

Pjz99, I think you are right on the character names vs ethnic names for the morphs.  I can really see the reasoning behind that too.  When I used V3, I always wondered if there was any science behind the international morphs or if anyone would be offended.  I tried dialling in my ex-girlfriend's mixed heritage and she and I agreed that it was nothing like what we expected.

Still, I prefer a more concrete name to generic names.  I have no clue what a Maria is supposed to look like.  I find myself in a position of being much more random when I'm trying to dial a face.

At least with V3 I knew what "Asian" was going to do to my character's eyes or what "Roman" was going to do to the nose!

Understood, I find it a bit irritating too.  On top of that most of the "character" morphs really don't look that good, so unless I'm trying to whistle up an unpleasant looking character I avoid them anyway.

I have her and the only thing I don't like so far are the eyebrows painted on the mesh, but that doesn't stop me from using her. Daz will not ban you for getting refunds, they have always been great about that, and have been since the zygote days. Sounds like no matter what you aren't going to like her so the solution is easy, don't buy her.  8^)
Marque

Quote - The problem with the picture above is that it generally means nothing to me because I never use the default faces. As long as the figure starts out looking somewhat human and has a mesh capable of being shifted, the default can look like anything.

That's what I never got about this whole thread, along with some others (e.g. V4 vs. Sydney).  Who cares the default looks like? 

I can't understand how people can tell if someone "steals" their original mesh - ex. Apollo vs. whoever. GND vs Umotov. Can someone explain?

Quote - And from behind...

Wow. From behind, V4 /so/ wins.

Still waiting 'til there's more support, though.

Pjz99: thanks.
The names can indeed refer to ethnic types, but the names are confusing.  It would have been great if in the readme there had been a folder with thumbnails of the different faces.
As for skins: I do have several by Blackhearted and Rio and I like them a lot.
Thing is this mesh really invites to create one's own characters.
The eyes are indeed something to look into from closer by. More than a dreamy or a blank stare is difficult to achieve. Plus: often I have the feeling the eyes pop out a bit, just like as if she were suffering from an hyperactive thyroid gland.
The standard face resembles SP a lot.

Don't know if you decided to buy her now, cause this tread is some days old, but ...I understand. When I opened her the first time in Poser I wasn't very satisfied with her, too... Now that I'm used to her and did a few images with her, I really like her a lot and I think she has a lot of possibilities. Unfortunately I don't have Zbrush ( I would love to have), and I'm very curious to see what other modelers are doing with her...You can take a look at my gallery there are some images with V4.. Believe me , she's worth the try...

soandso bought an ipod and that seems to be that. 

ExpressnImg just released Laurie over at Daz. Guess I already found "my" skin. The ones I have by him are really top quality. And this is no exception.
Blue, green and brown eyes and:
To add what Daz doesn't show: no forced tan lines but a natural Mediterranean sun bronze , pubic hair and sex.

Good tip, I'll go check that out myself.  Thank you!