My question is if i was to make a video game and distribute it free to friends what meshes can I use legally. Are the Poser models  legal to use?  I heard p5 and up are strictly prohibited, but what about P2 and P4?

If the model is butchered by reducing the number of polys does that change anything? If so, what would be the number of polys qualified as being okay to use.

Are the skeletons legal to use in a user created mesh?

Are the bvh exported files legal to use?

Thanks, I know this seems to be asked all the time and should be answered by the EULA but I am not sure of the answer.

No, you cannot use the models that come with Poser (even altered or reduced poly versions).
The only meshes you could use would be ones whose license specifically says they can be used for that. Most of the models in Poser and other 3d apps are too high-poly for games anyway.
The best thing might be to download one of the free modeling programs and try your hand at modeling, then you can make your own (and even sell them to other game designers if you want).
If you're interested in checking out that option, go to the Wings3d Forum and click on the banner at the top of that forum and it will take you to the website where you can download wings3d (a free modeler).

to quote Mr. Seinfeld "Did you see the size of that document? It's like the Declaration of Independence, who's gonna read that" but I wonder if someone can "boil" the Eula down to plain english, what we can and cannot do with Poser (Excluding the single user license, since i think that issue was throughly covered when P5 was released) For instance, the Poser gallery says the artist holds the copyright, but what if the art gets printed on a book, or a DVD cover? And what about when I see Don or P4 woman in a commercial on tv, is it legal for them to be used like that?

The only thing I know you can always do with content is distribute "Renders"

I've read here that P3 or P4 Posette, and/or maybe even a Low Res. Posette,  has(/Have) been made Open Source, but you'll need research this.

There is a thread in the copyright forum on this.

Basically anything you buy from Daz, Renderosity or other store , or the content included in Poser is licensed for personal or commercial use. (very rare exceptions)

That means any pictures or animations created using Poser are OK for distribution. The srtist is the copyright holder.

The figure itself, 3d geometry and joint setup remains the property of the creator and may NOT be resold, given away or put into another application from which it can be extracted.  You can use it in any 3d app you own for your own use though so applications like Vue, Carrara or Bryce are OK but thats still just creating pictures.

If you take a mesh and modify it , that makes it a derivitive work, it may be OK for your own use , but giving it away or selling it is a no-no .

There are some specific exceptions that allow people to create clothing to fit the characters but they are fairly specific and dont include use in games engines.

If you are the copyright holder to a picture that you have created, you have the right to determine who uses that picture. (the right to copy it ). So for book covers, cd covers , tee shirts , fabrics etc the copyright holder of the picture gives his consent to his pictures use, usually in exchange for some money.   The terms of that permission can be varied , for example , a book cover picture may be sold for the sole use of the book publisher. The copyright holder then cant sell it to anyone else, or it can be more open , and the picture sold to multiple businesses. 

• You see, trying to explain a EULA winds up taking as much space as the EULA  ... hhahaha

I do covers for 2 publishers at the moment and they differ with copyright issues, with one I keep the rights to my images and get paid by the publisher for letting them use it, the other one gets exclusive rights to my images and in effect becomes their property, obviously they pay me for that too!!

I think this is what I read of what became of the Low Res. P3 Female.  There are probably other Freebies around in the Free Stuff here to!

Project Human Open Source: Female LoRes Freebie

This Low Resolution figure is ideal for Poser Ready use as a background figure or for animation; looks great rendered out of P5 or P6 with 'smoothing' on at render time. It is also intended for developers as a base figure to subdivide, resulpt, use as a base for clothing, etc...
**
** Project Human Open Source: Male Freebie
Project Human Open Source: Britta Freebie

Project Human Open Source: Adam Freebie

** Project Human Open Source: H.I.M. Freebie**

H.E.R. Freebie

Project Human Open Source: Pose Set 1 Freebie

Suit for H.E.R. Freebie

Sorry the links do'nt match, they wo'nt fix!

Not exactly on topic here, but: Basically I'm surprised about so mutch people asking for free content to be able to wrap it with their own copyright.

What about an open license (more GPL like, or at least CPL) so that any work using "free content" is automatically wrapped with the same license? Just to keep good free content alive?

Links:
General Public License
Common Public License

Okay, here are the basics:

If you create something using Poser or any content that is "licensed" for commercial work you can create any image or animation and retain the rights to that image or animation.

YOU CAN NOT create anything from wich the original mesh, textures or pose can be extracted, this usually means video games and such!

BUT, the difference is, if you create a video game where the Poser content can not be extrated (ie: cinematics), you are fine.

Bascially, if it is flatened, renderd, rasterizae, you are fine.

If I can, decode ytour file and extract a mesh fo sme kind, then you have broklen your agreements with whoever you have gotten the mesh from.  Tis would include any generateion mesh, P3 or or bvh motion or otherwise.

Got it?

yeah, I'm drunk, but the rules are really simple.

The resources beong to whoever created them.  An original Image beongs to the artist who used them.

Don't vreate ANYTHING from which someone can extract even a derivitave of womone elses resources!!!

A 32 by 32 byte version foa texture map still belongs to whoever created it!!  The same with a reduced mesh!!!

Okay, I hop this has helped and not sounded to arguemtative!!

We are all friends who depend on each other.  Play by the rules and no one will get hurt!

I have yet to do anything so I am playing by the rules.  Thats why I am asking in an open forum to clarify any rules. I understand none of you are lawyers, but that doesnt mean you dont have the knowledge I am looking for.

I realize the current EULA seems to forbid using the Poser meshes, but I, and as it appears others, dont recall the EULA of Poser 4 being so restrictive although this may be a misconception. I imagine that those who have been around after 2003 won't even remember the old EULA, so I am glad that some experienced posters replied. And as my poor memory serves me the reason Daz was able to take off the way it did, and created the D|S was because the EULA became so restrictive.

From my research on the net, P4-Lo models can get pretty close to 70 frames a second. Some gamers are taking those, creating derivatives, changing the format then using moledex to encrypt them. Ethically, that is only okay only if the Poser P4 EULA allows it, and that is in part what I am trying to determine.

Secondly, if an "open sourced" model existed, the community looking to expand and not necessarly make financial gains, people would be able to distribute the product Free and its add ons (much like the old P4 members did). Renderosity has been very nice to provide free add ons to retail products, I am surprised the same does not exist for an open source object.

Lastly, if I was able to create/ or even buy a model (in wings, 3dmax, obj ect) and import it to Poser, whats the legalities of using the base skeleton and exporting the bvh files. Afterall, isnt this what Daz does, create a model in LW and import it into Poser, add a skeleton and sell it? The drunken post above confuses me, as why would Poser even have an export for BVH if its not intended to be used!  One tutorial on Daz forums explictly state they had permission to use the skeleton and animations.

Now, if Poser can ONLY be used for 2d screens, as some had presented, and should never be used as a tool to pose for 3d projects, then I can respect that, but I also would not be surprised if Poser 7 is the last on the series as it has far out grown its need for this user. There are a number of open source programs that are limited but catching up to Posers power (for example make human).  With an open sourced competition coming, I would argue change is necessary.

For some reason I think the majority of users forget the prime function of Poser is a tool to "pose" figures. Outside of that, the orginal poser figures are pretty high quality.

There's something obvious that people seem (to me anyway) to be missing, The original question was about designing a game using the figures & distributing that, not actually distributing the figures themselves.

Unless I'm reading the original post wrong then any figure usable in Poser unless stated in it's EULA is ok for that purpose as long as the original meshes/textures are not distributed in a form that others can access & copy.

*"...if an "open sourced" model existed..."

*Anyone catch my second post(7th one in?)

=^ |

Do we get a prize for spotting it? :thumbupboth:

You get Distributable Geometries!

lol thanks :D

Attached Link: http://www.dedalo-3d.com/

Check out MakeHuman 0.9.0 at the link above, an open source software to create a variety of human meshes.  The license states that the meshes can be redistributed and sold, you would need to rig the mesh, but it would be a great starting point for your project. It was originally designed for use with Blender, which has it's own game creation engine.

Good Luck!
DR

Angelouscuitry I caught your post and hence my suggestion and rant to an open source figure. I need a low poly male figure though. I have had bad luck with trying to use programs to lower the poly count.  Still even with a good figure, I need too add a skeleton and animation and need to know if that is usable.

DustRider, I have checked out MakeHuman, thats why I referenced it.  The most current web page is the source forge page as the admin has changed. To be honest the Make Human figures currently have too many polys. If the project isnt abandoned, it will probably come in a much later release.

Lucipher, I agree with you but that does not mean we are correct. Nothing would make me happier then hearing, go ahead use any figure and re skin him as you wish just as long as you dont distribute the mesh in a usable form. But if you have the mesh in a game (encrypted or not) you still are distrubuting it. As you see by some posters, they interprete the EULA as saying thats not possible.

In the end, I will just email eF as they now own the rights to the program.

Quote - In the end, I will just email eF as they now own the rights to the program.

eF owns the rights to the program and to the new figures but the rights to the Poser 4 figures belongs to Zygote since they've made them.

What's wrong with the H.I.M. and Adam links?  They come as poseable .CR2s so they must also have a skeleton you can use?

Your best bet is to contact e-frontier for info on Poser 4 or below figures.

Sixus1 can be contacted via contentparadise I think. He did the adam figure and a couple of other figures.

Angelouscuitry, it is the belief that low poly but well textured figures are better for real time renders then the high poly counterparts.  I understand that someone can make a 4 faced poly and make any system crawl (scripts, shaders, shadows ect) and polys are not the only factor, but it is a factor.  Other than that, I would use them in a heart beat.

Oh, Male and Low(?).

Hmm.

 So, what kind of poly range are you interested in?

Well, I have not completely experimented.  But I would try one at maybe at 10-12k and maybe one at 4-5k.  Besides Poser4 lo, there are a few on turbo squid I am considering. In addition, I would like to have the character be easily modified so several characters can share the same skeleton. 

I did contact zygote and the sales person stated they did not own the old poser model and refered me to daz, claiming they own the rights.  I am not sure if he meant ef, or if he was correct in stating daz.

ok got my answer. and lucipher in the dark was right on! 

You can put the model in a video game as long as the finished product does not allow the geometry to be extracted.