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Poser - OFFICIAL F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2024 Nov 28 11:20 am)
Subject: Honesty in the galleries...no more suck up!
beryld:
Quote - The way some slap images up pretty much every day, there needs to be some kind of control to the ebots.Could you imagine what it would be like if we could post 3 images a day like it used to be, all those ebots? I
IMO that's more of a problem with how notifications happen; if you feel you're getting too many notifications, it isn't right to make everyone else who uses the galleries to adopt new posting practices - set up a filter on your mail client, or lobby for some control over how many ebot notifications per day you get.
What about using the "non-critical comments are preferred" option when you don't want to be critiqued?
OMG, I made through ALL four pages!! A lot of very good points and observations. Some I may underscore. To get back to tainted_hearts original post: Here's part of the problem, tainted_heart: 1. Your list of artists didn't include ME! ; ) 2. The artists in your list are good but that's still just subjective opinion, yours or mine. 3. This place is so big I amazed that after 8 years there are plenty of people whose work I have never seen. Like, this is so amazing how have I never seen this? 4. I can hardly believe I took the time to plow through everyone's post to this thread. So, while I agree with your original post and feel sometimes someone ( you, at this moment) has to say what you have said, I don't think it is worth the effort to change what is essentially the nature of the galleries/internet. Humans get attracted to praise, good feelings, drugs, sex, like-minded-ness. I also agree with those that say this thread will repeat in a month or so. I rarely leave constructive comments unless, by looking at the image, I believe that the artist is invested in their pursuit of a better image and might want to hear my "tip". There just isn't enough time to leave comments on work if the person doesn't have the desire or ability or appreciation to include a comment that isn't "this is wonderful". And to another person's comment re: having blind comments only The comments have been my avenue into other galleries that normally I wouldn't find. I see an interesting avatar with their comment and I'm intrigued to see what else they've done. Clearly, we all know this can be a blind alley as some avatars are acquired in ways other than via their own art. For the record: Yes, I see some pictures that I consider "bad", "painful" even, but somewhere out there someone might see my gallery and feel the same way.
There is a Works in Progress gallery which, by its nature, would be open to helpful critiques of works as they are being created. Incomplete works are being posted so that helpful suggestions can be made while it is being developed.
Critiquing is always a dicey proposition. Helping somebody fix an obvious technical flaw is useful. Critiquing aesthetics is tricky because everybody has different levels of understanding in different areas. Professional critics routinely disagree on the merit of a work of art, literature or film. Watch an episode of Ebert and Roeper to see that the two critics disagree almost more often than they agree and, not infrequently, disagree drastically.
A less definable thing is understanding how much an artist can learn from a critique. Artistic growth takes time and practice to learn and improve. Sometimes criticism helps in that process and sometimes it doesn't. A lot of criticism is meaningless if the artist cannot see the problem.
I think it's fairly safe to say that most of us can look at our older artwork with embarrassment because we've grown as artists. We can see things wrong in the past that we didn't see when we created them. What we didn't think was wrong in the past probably were things that we would not have understood had somebody pointed them out to us because they looked pretty good back then.
We've all seen critics, whose own artwork had glaring faults, that would be better served by improving their own work and not trying to improve that of others.
My visual indexes of Poser
content are at http://www.sharecg.com/pf/rgagnon
pjz99 wrote: "IMO that's more of a problem with how notifications happen; if you feel you're getting too many notifications, it isn't right to make everyone else who uses the galleries to adopt new posting practices - set up a filter on your mail client, or lobby for some control over how many ebot notifications per day you get."
Completely missed my point with a non-solution.
Don't worry about it, I won't bother with the group. I'm keeping it simple.
Oh I see - I didn't realize you were talking about using the forums for that purpose, sorry.
beryld - hmmm. i think an ebot each time someone posts seems superfluous. why not just get an email with a link directly to the image? and a thread with all images to be critiqued would get pretty unwieldy. besides, then the thread can be kept for group issues, and image critique will stay with the image. if the thread is used to post about the images, i think critique will start happening there. but again, that's just me. i do think your idea would work; i just think the thread for adding new members or leaving the group and favorites would work better. and i think i think other people should state their preference. i'm very willing to go with anything people agree on.
kalon - i think, though i could be mistaken, that the notion was less about not wanting any critical comments than not wanting an in-depth critique. for instance, if someone posts a quickie of a new purchase just to test it out, they might actually know that the pose is boring or the composition is weak.
gagnonrich - i'm not talking about works in progress. i'm talking finished products.
i don't have any wish to change the nature of this community or how anyone posts. and yes, i know any critique is opinion based. as someone mentioned, i'd love to know why some people like some of my images more than others. i just thought it would be nice to work with other artists to improve my work. as it is, i don't think people feel free to say what they really think. and i know i don't. not because i want to trash talk some images, but because i think some pointers might help certain artists grow. but since it doesn't seem like many are interested, i guess it won't happen.
Right, 10 artist post an image. If they posted a link to the sticky thread, you would only get 1 ebot until you checked the thread, But you all like to have 10 ebots, one for each image wether they want the critic of the image or not. You have to go there to find out. Now what happens on a weekend when many post images, it becomes an ebot nightmare.
Most of you prefer all the ebots, that's fine. I was just suggesting something that some can't grasp the concept of what I am saying. That's cool too. Not a big deal, I already know how to deal with the problem.
Now, someone mentioned the WIP gallery. That may be the best way to go and just have everyone check that gallery a little more often. Then there would not be a need for the sticky thread.
"My opinions do not reflect the opinions of the chosen few."
OK here's the deal. I read through the whole front page of this thread and then skipped to the end so I could post so I apologize if this seems out of context.
First thing... Most times when I make my images I WILL start out with a library pose to get a general idea of where I'm going. When I see certain things in my mind as to how I would like it to turn out, its not so easy for me to turn it into reality. So on that note I believe that people do deserve some small amount of praise for coming up with a nice idea even if their presentation isn't so much...
Secondly... I have been here at r'osity for several years and I consider myself an artist regardless of if I'm any good or not but because I truly enjoy doing this (playing dress-up dolls as some of my friends lovingly call it.) If I find myself browsing the 'What's New' uploads I look for the beginners... I do this because I remember what it was like to first start out with Poser (v.4 LOL) and I know how hard it is. I don't give rediculously happy --'Oh thats so byooteefull"- and stuff like that but I do say things like: 'Hey, great work on this and this and such' and then if I feel it necessary I will send them an email or IM on what they could do to improve. IMHO the comments option on images is really designed to be a motivational tool for anyone who wants to be an artist. If you do choose to be critical (option allowing) then be gentle... Many of these artists are new or not exactly used to harsh comments of the public. Who gives a rats hairy bumm about the people who have 300 comments/image? There are only so many generic comments to go around, just figure that they really only have about 15 -real- comments after lumping all the 'awesome' and 'beautiful' and 'incredible' comments apart.
Another thing I tend to do is come here to the forums and get opinions on certain aspects of my images. For example: I went to the PSP forum to get opinions on an image I painted hair in.
Just remember, the older artists here can have their following but make sure to recognize the new artists because they could end up commenting on something you made! :)
OK, what I'm going to do is post a new sticky thread for those interested in getting and giving critique.
I'll leave it up to the individual members how they want to go about viewing galleries. If you want to add artists to faves, that's great (it will be what I do). If you want to just periodically check the thread and visit peoples' galleries, that's also fine. Initially we'll leave it open as to whether people post in the thread when they have a new work they want critiqued, or they can just make their gallery post and trust the ebots to tell everyone. We'll see how it goes.
PLEASE join up and participate, folks, because unless we do, things will never change! And in six months' time we'll all be reading this same thread by another author!
Gonna make the sticky now...
"you are terrifying
and strange and beautiful
something not everyone knows how to love." - Warsan
Shire
Beryld: You know, you don't necessarily have to subscribe to a thread like you're asking for to participate in it, you can just check it when you feel like - it'll be easy to find after all since it's proposed to be a sticky. I never subscribe to any forum threads, myself (which was why I didn't get what you were saying initially).
Karen: Thanks, maybe that will make some people happy. I'll be using it myself for at least some images, probably not all. You may want to put a strong note reminding people to flag their posts based on the content of the link they point to.
TOM!! :lol:
"you are terrifying
and strange and beautiful
something not everyone knows how to love." - Warsan
Shire
Rule 4: During controversial multi-page posts, blow past everyone else's opinion, post a huge block of text without considering whether that point has already been made or not and sit back and expect plenty of acknowledgement. Or: Just post pictures of cats. My favorite is the one with the beer and the remote. BTW, I'm not complaining one person actually checked out MY gallery because of this thread. Thanks, SoCalRoberta for your comment.
I'm a bit perplexed why people who've got no uploads in the past several months are asking for critiques in the other thread. 
I think it is important to remember that some gallery users, regardless of experience, are really very social and people-oriented. More socially active artists always have more views and friend responses.
Lots of people don't forum post often but are very active with IM, adding people to their favoroites and such.
I think it is really okay regardless of who comments or how many comments or what they say.
Some artists are just quiet people. As a result the their work my get less response. But I don't think that means their work isn't appreciated.
-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the
face of truth is concealment."
Quote - Rule 4: During controversial multi-page posts, blow past everyone else's opinion, post a huge block of text without considering whether that point has already been made or not and sit back and expect plenty of acknowledgement. Or: Just post pictures of cats. My favorite is the one with the beer and the remote.
Hey, I did warn you at the beginning of my post that I jumped to the end :P
And I personally like the Military kitten... way too cute!
wait. i certainly wasn't trying to be controversial. i am not trying to change how anyone uses their gallery or comments in anyone else's. all i'm trying to do is trade critiques with others. i'm very glad karen has established a way for us to do this.
beryld - i believe i get what you want, and pretty much did from the start except for thinking you wanted more than one thread per artist. i just personally disagree. i could get into why, but i don't see a point in it. i find favorites easier, and i can do that. and i want feedback on finished works, not w.i.p's, which is totally different, imho. there are tons of forums for that, and i'd use one of those should i want that.
From what I read in the sticky, it looks like you are going to control the art charts. So it looks like your back to the original post in a round about way. You will critique each other and get your images into the top ranks. Not much different than having all the friends, is it.
I would think that if you are going to use the excuse of being critique, maybe you should have a special gallery that does not use the post/view count. Then again, maybe that is the whole plan to get these images in the top ranks. I'm confussed, what's the difference between the populars and the Critiques now?
Hm... I think someone deleted a post from me because I used the P-word for cat. Or did it just not get through? hm...
No, you can say "pussy" all you like (I'm guessing that was the word!)
*From what I read in the sticky, it looks like you are going to control the art charts.
Unlikely.
"you are terrifying
and strange and beautiful
something not everyone knows how to love." - Warsan
Shire
Yeah, the people who tend to be in the top comment/rating category have 70-100+ of each, the critique group has about 30 signed up, even if everyone was very vigorous in critiquing every submission.
I see, it's ok for you to take over the gallery but not them. So what happens when the group grows as it most likely to for the weekend. There are only 30 you say now but that is just the first day and started in the middle of the week.
If your wondering why I bother posting in this toasted thread, it is, I didn't want to ruin the sticky thread for what it was intended.
Beryl, I must be missing something. Who is talking about "taking over" the art charts? The purpose of the group is to solicit critique. This is what the gallery function is supposed to be about.
Nobody is soliciting high ratings, image faves, or store credits, which are an integral part of the art chart calculations.
I am curious to know how you feel an agreement to comment honestly on each others' works is unfair or unethical? As compared to everyone else who has favourite artists and will comment on each of their uploads, whether honestly or not?
"you are terrifying
and strange and beautiful
something not everyone knows how to love." - Warsan
Shire
The point is to have the comments be a way to improve what you need to work on and know what it is you're doing right. As a reminder, the group was set up for -anyone- to join so the 'them' you speak of are welcome as well. They just need to realize that we're not going to 'oooh and aahh' the snot out of them, we're going to say what we think.
Its not about getting topped in the charts, if it were... we would restrict the group to certain members wouldn't you think?
I think its a great idea and look forward to seeing what happens with it.
You not looking at the whole picture. As soon as you have all the critiques posting the charts change. It's not what you say, it is still the most views and postings. So yes you are dictating the top images.
I see your not going to agree with this in your just cause. I was looking at the outcome and wondered what was the difference. I thought the critique club was a good idea but not when it can control the galleries. That is why I thought that there might be a why to keep that from happening. But looks like you do want that. Oh well.
Karen1573 you admitted that it would influence the art charts on the very first page of the sticky thread. I"m not saying this to argue, I was trying to point out something that you all were complaining about and then turn around and can do the same thing now.
I understand that if you had not started this new group now, when you had the chance, it might not have happened. That's a good thing. Just don't become what you criticized in the first place.
Time will show the truth.
beryld - no one said anything about it being fine to take over. i believe pjz99's point was that the only thing we're doing is commenting. since the "Today's Most Commented" images are between 80 and 48 comments, and we're only 30 people so far, even if every member commented on every image, we'd be far from the top.
i am deliberately not rating anything i critique. but even if i was, i doubt that the number of ratings would help. because the whole point is to be more critical - so no more easy 5's. since "Today's Top Rated" images have from 50 to 22 perfect ratings, again, it's very doubtful the group would influence ratings.
and since the "art charts" have even more complex logic than these two simple ways, i don't see the point of your complaints. i think that if anything, this will be a detriment to the uber popular love fest some have. for one thing, others not in the group will see the more critical comments. human nature dictates that people will be influenced by them. so they'll see the imperfections, and be more likely to give their own critique and less likely to give a perfect rating. unless they're just looking to make themselves popular (not much you can do in that case). i don't think it will be nearly as easy to become the next hot new artist here with 4 or 5 critical comments in the mix.
it seems to me that you're grasping at potential negatives in something that's the most positive and community driven change i've seen in a long time. i'm not sure why.
I honestly don't think it's likely any of us will come anywhere near disturbing the art charts at all, and if so, the regular leaders in the art charts only have to join the list themselves if they like, and thus get scads more comments than they already do.
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I would be interested in a Critique Forum too. Knowing who is willing to have their brains picked for tips would be really useful :)
Favoriting members seems like a good idea to me. If I don't want a critque on a particular image, can't I just say so when I post it?
I have never been able to figure out the star system. what makes an image one star or two or three , or even 4 instead of 5,totally confuses me. So if it's great (IMO) I give 5. If it's not, I don't give any. And I admit 5 is a knee jerk reaction. If I look at an image and my first thought is whether or not I could get way with stealing it, that image is a 5 :)
(no I don't steal any. I just wish I could.)