If like me , you have been the victim of "i love your picture" but then get 1 out of 5 rating from that member then you know what I'm not happy about.
We should scrap this rating system for a simple "recommendation star" which the viewer could give or not, anonymously. No comments needed which in this multi-lingual site would be easy and helpful.
Then we could see how many of the members who viewed the image actually liked it.
Any ideas?

rosepab - I see your point, but alot of people like to have comments on their pictures on what people liked about it & also how they could improve.

By all means have comments, good and constructive....but to just choose if they like what they see by giving it a recommendation star would help people just browsing the galleries, to see if the images are worth clicking on.
At the moment, I have on average 25-30 images a day to comment on just from favourites. I can't comment on every image but I try  not do the "copy and paste" replies that I see a lot of.

Rosepab yeah I see it going around, I think it's obvious who's doing it and why.  Stormchaser I dunno if you get it, the cute gag going around in the past couple of days is for certain folks to a) gush over your gallery submission in a comment, but b) give you 1 out of 5.  Not that I give a crap, I think the whole ranking system is rubbish anyway.

So how do we get renderosity to change this? I hear on the other galleries they have the same problem!

OK I have to agree with this. Based on comments left on an image (mine or others) you would think considering how much certain people 'love' the image that they would rate it 5 stars but when you get to the 15-20 rating mark someone comes along and slaps you with a 1 star rating and completely kills your average. I mean, its almost like there are people who specifically go around low-rating people who might stand a chance at getting in the top-rated images because they aren't part of 'the clique' or some such thing.

I feel your pain rosepab...

Comments YES, because sometimes they can actually be useful!

Ratings NO, I have to agree, totally superfluous and of no use or merit in any way shape or form!!

Just disable ratings on your images and forget about it.  Seems pretty obvious to me who's doing it and why.  Terribly unlikely Rendo is going to act on it, and frankly they should not, it's just an application of the ratings system.  It's there to be gamed, so people are gaming it.  What do you win or lose at the end of the day?  Who cares?  /yawn

I do switch off the ratings now, and who cares? Me of course!
Just change the system like I mentioned...easy!

Next thing you'll want to change the thumbnail policy too!!  

Now don't get me started on that s**t!

I don't understand, are people really giving great comments on pictures & then purposely giving low ratings? If this is true, how SAD!!

The sad thing is now that I have turned off my ratings, that person hasn't commented on my last 3 images! Go figure!

I keep forgetting they're there..;) Maybe they need a simple category where you can enable comments, but not ratings.

Quote - The sad thing is now that I have turned off my ratings, that person hasn't commented on my last 3 images! Go figure!

You have now his name... Let's find out the real-life name and adress and... be creative. ^.^

Much more than the current rating system I would prefer a list, some control boxes, of good/bad things that people find in a picture and click on that list.
Let there be 30 or 50 entries in this list that describe attributes of an image.

One can now instead of writing a long critical comment click in the list what is applicable and add the things that are not on the list. The list would work well because most pictures suffer from the same technical shortcomings.
The hug-club prolly ignores this feature because it requires to spent a few seconds looking at a picture.

Quote - I keep forgetting they're there..;) Maybe they need a simple category where you can enable comments, but not ratings.

Yes, this is how it works already when you upload.

  How about a set of check-boxes that truly reflect opinions.... two categories... technical and artistic. Then, subcategories in each.... maybe... something like "Technically: well done, but not to my personal taste" Vs. "Artistically: I like it"  . One thing, though, it would have to allow for the "But" part. I REALLY hate it, when I'm only given a choice of yes/no, when I'm asked for my opinion on something that has multiple bits that I do, and don't, like.......... or, "Did you find the information you were looking for? Y/N." No, I only found PART of it...... "Was it useful? Y/N.".. not unless I can get the rest. How many of you have been asked the same questions, and been really annoyed by the choices. Lou.

archdruid - that seems a bit complex to me.  i think it would be much better if we had, as rosepab suggested,  a "recommended" toggle instead of ratings, and you didn't have to comment to recommend. 

personally, i feel the opposite.  i could love an image and think it's absolutely wonderful, but still a 3.  because even if i adjust my standards to just here instead of the wider world of art (how do you rank compared to picasso or matisse?), i still feel like 2 stars below the absolute best is really, really good. but all anyone seems comfortable giving is 5s or nothing (except some strange person now).  if we're going to be so binary about the scale, we might as well reduce it to being binary.  and since ratings are just averages and not specific reviews, they're not much less meaningful that way.

should we take this over to the suggestions forum?

  No, don't get me wrong..... I'm much the same way.... i've seen things that are "technically" really bad, yet, I loved the "whole"... that's why I said.... no Y / N answers. Lou.

this issue has been beaten to death at all the poser-related sites AFAIK. I dunno of any instance where the admins removed the ratings function, although they may have threatened to do so, after web-weenies complained about low ratings. we all know the ratings are meaningless, but why spoil the fun for those who take solace in them?

we're not suggesting they be gotten rid of.  we're suggesting they change.  i almost never see any rating beneath 5 stars on _anyone's _ work.  what i generally see is more and less votes for the 5 stars.  and personally, sometimes i just want to give someone a gold star and not say anything.  actually, a lot of time that happens.

and actually, this might be kinder to people who care. don't you have to get 4 ratings or so before it shows up?  with a recommended mark, you could have the show immediately.

just a thought.

How do you tell what someone rates you?  I'm suppressing the urge to be catty and do it back - ok maybe just once to get it out of my system....

Frankly, I don't know of any solution to the ratings/comments in the galleries business which would make everybody happy.  The underlying difficulty being that even a hypothetically 'perfect' system would still be corrupted by the presence of imperfect people participating in it.

I've seen the 'ratings troll' phenomenon pop up on other sites, too.......where someone was systematically giving low ratings to images.  shrug  What can we say?  People can be petty and childish.  And I don't know of a way to stop them from doing that.

The suggestion is not bad really. I see lots of pics that I like, but have nothing to say because I'm not going to say "nice work" 30 times a day. But I'd certainly click the "Close and GoldStar" instead of just "close".

And nobody could "game" this. You either give it a star or you don't.  A individual cannot lower the star count - he can only raise it by one. Even having 10 "star hackers" who come to look at your image but don't give it a star would hardly affect the outcome. After 300 views and 200 stars, you know where you stand, 210 wouldn't make any difference.

Personally I think just looking at your "views" counter is a pretty good statistical indication of whether people like your image or not. Because people browse each others favorites, great pictures get advertised in a way that shows up statistically.

I know which of my gallery posts are the most appealing - they have over a 1000 views. That's all I need to know. By the way my "scientific" study shows that a thumbnail showing a shapely leg will get more views than breasts, ass, or face. And if you have none of those things, don't expect views. :biggrin:

Quote - Terribly unlikely Rendo is going to act on it, and frankly they should not, it's just an application of the ratings system.  It's there to be gamed, so people are gaming it. 

Actually it's against the TOS. It falls under this clause:

Quote - Member/User Conduct:

Members and users are expected to conduct themselves in a manner that is constructive and respectful of others at all times. Additionally, we would hope that each member/user would do their best to facilitate a culture of collaboration and positive reinforcement, so that we can all share our passion for art while realizing our personal ambitions, and developing friendships.

Members/Users will not use this community for;

Any practices that affect the normal operations of the community (Admins will take whatever steps are necessary to restore service)

If someone is abusing the rating system, contact a moderator and they will deal with it.

Honestly how is it an abuse?  If someone feels like giving a 1, they're entitled to give a 1.  Conversely if a few hundred people feel like giving a 5 to a very plain get well card, is that an abuse of the system?

Quote - Honestly how is it an abuse?  If someone feels like giving a 1, they're entitled to give a 1.  Conversely if a few hundred people feel like giving a 5 to a very plain get well card, is that an abuse of the system?

It's abuse if they rave and gush over your image and then give a 1 for the rating.

Don't blame me. I don't make the rules. But I do know for a fact that it's against the TOS to rave and gush over images and then give a 1 for a rating.

How do you know what people rate you?

Personally, I always give a 5 for effort unless I really hate it, and then I don't even comment or rate it at all. Sometimes I don't rate if I have little time, but usually I figure everyine deserves a high mark for effort whether I like it or not. Art is subjective.

You can't know for sure, but when a small number of people rate an image, it isn't hard to guess, particularly since you must leave a comment in order to leave a rating.

Besides commenting on other people's work and then they comment back, it really helps to have an eye-catching thumbnail. This is a huge gallery if you look at everything every night. For example, when I have time, I comment on cute animals, beautiful scenery with water, things I like. It is impossible to comment on everything. As far as ratings, why worry about it? Except for those lucky few who sell their art or do commissioned pieces, this is a hobby for most of us. When i started, i would upload something I thought was pretty good and not recieve a single comment much less a rating. We can't please everyone so please yourself!

Your not going to be able to change it. Any type of rating system turns into a popularity thing. The star system you mentioned would be no different, in fact it would be easier to get top charting. Just click a star on every image and leave. Most of what I have seen going on in the gallery is not how good the art is. It's how many you know and comment on or what group you join.

Take the rating system totally out and you would solve the whole issue. Comment all you want on an image, it does not mater because they are not being counted and no charts made with those numbers. The drawback of that would be, you would have to actually look at images that are not part of the popualrs or groups. How else would you know if you like them, they aren't racked in the top 20 or have the most stars.

Now, if those with top ratings got PAID REAL MONEY, like a prize, every week, it would be worth it, LOL!

Could you hear the howling over that? It might make for an interesting read though.

Seriously?  Industrious and highly motivated Asians would kick out all these flabby Americans and Euros, a la the online RPG ebay market.  None of the usual gallery top #s peeps would ever, ever, ever get on the list again.

I'd settle for a gift certificate, ROFLMAO!!!!

I know most of us do this for a hobby, but we would all like our art to be seen. And someone mentioned that if you are part of a small community you can rack up 50 comments in no time. So the rating system, I thought was a way of trying to get the good stuff to the top of the pile. I have found that I find most gems when looking through peoples "favourite image" section, a truer but not perfect way of seeing the good stuff.
But then again this points me in the direction of my tastes in art, which isn't a bad thing!

Do you want your art to be seen?  Print it on flyers and throw copies out the window of your car on the way to work.  It will be seen then, at least by the policeman who gives you a citation for littering.  Being part of a small community that cut-and-pastes generic comments, however flowery, is not the same as being seen - after all many of them are not really looking.

Do you want money or some concrete item of value for your art?  You won't really get that here either.  I suppose once in a while some person or other might buy you some item on your wishlist, but otherwise no.  It's terribly unlikely some wealthy art dealer is going to come here and take your jpeg to Sotheby's and auction it for a million dollars.

Do you want ego gratification?  Show your art to your mom, she'll give you much more thorough and gushing praise than you can get from "awesome render" and a meaningless 5-point decimal score.  Although in your case in particular, your mom might spank you - I know my mom would spank me!

There is no objective standard for "the good stuff".  I don't even like very much of the stuff that goes in the staff choice threads.  Leaving it up to the users just makes it a game, that they play with themselves.  ;)

When has staff choice threads been called "my favourite images", maybe I should ask your mom!!!  ;-D
If I wanted money, wouldn't I be better on deviantArt site?
Should pay for all the flyers I have had printed!!!!!

It only falls under that clause if it is in a disrespectful or trolling comment. It is not against the TOS to rate a image 1 .

Quote - It only falls under that clause if it is in a disrespectful or trolling comment. It is not against the TOS to rate a image 1 .

That's incongruent to what has been happening.  There have been situations where people have received warnings for consistently giving rave reviews with low ratings. 

**Acadia,

Situations like this are examined by the staff.. Low ratings need to be put in context..
There are isolated situations where it could be a simple mistake..
There are also situations of people attempting to manipulate a rating system.
(Thankfully the HOT 10 is gone !)

Again...the circumstances have to be examined in the over all context of both parties involved.

**

I am sorry ment trolling in general which is what that would consist of a pattern of being disrespectful but if a person does this in just one instance it would not be considered trolling. It depends on the circumstance each one is different and it is always run by the team before we determine if it is trolling or not.

It's not a mistake a hundred times over.  If admins can do something about the person rating it a 1 but saying "Excellent 5*****" than they should.    To me that is the same as any troll.

Megalomaniacs someone needs to give them a pill or something.

Quote - It's not a mistake a hundred times over.  If admins can do something about the person rating it a 1 but saying "Excellent 5*****" than they should.    To me that is the same as any troll

We do.
We need to be told about it though. So if someone does this (especially persistently) then please flag it to us so we can investigate.

How would you know of someone rated a 1 but said "excellent 5"? I can never tell if someone rates my stuff or not unless I get into the top rated. I get a lot of comments but not a lot of ratings, I don't think.

I think you would have to anally watch your comments.  So if 4 ppl comment and you get 4 ratings and you are sitting at a rating of 5 - (everyone gave you fives) then someone comes along and gives you a 1 - your rating would go down.  But like I said you would have to be anally watching it to see when that happened I think.

Either way I suck big time in math area - it hurts my brain right now just to try to figure out what that averages to.

Well, if people worry about ratings here at a hobby gallery, they should try to show a horse at a horse show. I went to a show to watch some kids from the stable where I board my horse. One girl is overweight, and although her horse is well trained and she rides well, the judges never give her a ribbon. Only the skinny girls get them.

Karen is correct. We have to know WHO the alleged abuser is and we WILL take care of it if after review it appears to be a pattern of abuse from that member. It would fall under trolling IMO if someone consistently went around doing this.

Since it was probably a response to forum threads about this very subject, it is likely the culprit has already stopped.  Thanks to various Rendo staffers who have responded, that probably did the trick.

I hope so as that is completely uncalled for.  Let us know if this type of abuse of the system is seen