i've been reading up on how to make full body morphs in Blender, and they all seem to point back to Compose.  conversely, no matter what i set my import settings to pay attention to, i don't seem to be able to get .obj groups into Blender, let alone back out.  is this impossible?  do i need a 3rd party app just to make a .obj that has the same groups as the original?  at the moment all i want is to be able to create eye morphs to match the head morphs, so i don't need to morph everything at once.

if i could just retain groups, that would solve my current problem.  does anyone know how to do that with just Blender?

The Compose11 utility is definitely the way to go but unfortunately it is a little tricky to use.  A google search only turned up a really crappy tut for using it with ZBrush.  I know there was a better one on some other forum, I think John Wind himself did it.  Sorry I couldn't be more help.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2723112

from said thread:  "If you examin the translate and scale channels in Victoria 3's eyes you will see that they are slaved to morph (targetGeom) channels in the head, so that when a morph in the head moves the eye sockets the eyes automaticly translate and scale to match."

"If you study Aiko's Cr2, you will see how her Realstic head dial automatically dials the eyes to match, so you don't need to select each eye and dial Realistic."

if V4's eyes were actually just moveable, it wouldn't be an issue.  and the built-in morphs do morph the eye with the morph.  but with translation and scale dials locked away...  i don't see how i could get the eyes to change position or scale without an appropriate morph or a cr2 edit.  which is much more problematic for anyone else to use than morphed eyes, since you can't distribute it.  if it's just for me, heck, i'll morph eyes (and everything else) to fit the picture i'm working on or  postwork the eyes altogether.  or both.

and reading the adorana eyes thread, why wouldn't it just work to conform or parent the new eyes to the old ones if no new morphs were in play, and all that's changing is translation and scale?  it seems like overkill and copyright infringement to duplicate a slaving function that's already present in an existing body part.

besides which, i just might one day want to morph more than just the head...

The main reason not to morph the eyes (too drastically) is that you don't want them to move the geometry off (the rotation) centre.

If you find morphing the best solution to repositioning the eyes, use it, but expect problems if you try to rotate them.
Most, if not all, of the "difficulties" you mention are solvable once you know enough about the CR2 file structure.

When exporting OBJ files from Blender to Poser, you'll need to change the grouping options to write group information as "g" lines, and you'll need to fixup the naming.
If Blender is still reordering the vertices, that can be fixed, but we'll deal with that if you run into that problem.

i have no problem with editing the CR2.  that's not the issue.  the issue is that's a me-only solution.  i can't even share work with a partner that way (not conveniently at least).  knowing about the cr2 structure isn't going to cause DAZ to allow distribution of Vicky .cr2s.  unless i've missed something and they do now?   maybe i'm mistaken, because i know that both Capsces and Posermatic need to distribute .cr2's. though Beth's products have a DAZ installer.  my understanding was that it isn't allowed.  and since i am sharing work with a partner, i really don't see a better way of handling it invisibly. 

but that's moot.

it's not helping me for you to fight me on this.  at some point very soon I'm going to want to make full body morphs, so getting all stuck on educating me on how non-spherical objects change their profile as they rotate, or about object centers in Poser, isn't at all beneficial or necessary.  heck, it would be best to be able to do neck morphs, too.  at some point i'd like to do some specific african morphs, and overall head shape will be very key.

i'm not at my 3d machine now, so i can't say all the permutations i've been through.  i've had no trouble with reordered vertices, but all the options for groups/objects/materials into and out of Blender have still left me with no groups.  at least none Poser can recognize.  i've tried this without changing the mesh in Blender, just import and export, and .objs exported from Poser and loaded directly from the runtime (just to test).  my partner seems to be having no problems doing this in Lightwave, but if Blender needs a 3rd party app just to retain or create grouping, i guess i can live with it.  wouldn't that mean one could never make a figure for Poser in Blender though?  that just seems wrong.

if you can pinpoint what blender object exporter needs to do or does wrong ask for it in the blenderdev forum. maybe they can add that option to the .obj exporter.

The required export options settings (for the "Grouping ..." section) are to have only "Object Groups" selected.

Maintaining the correct naming requires a small tweak to the export script (to stop it decorating the mesh name).

Haven't checked recently, but the OBJ importer used to reorder the vertices (which is a problem for morph making), but it can be fixed by using either a Python script (for Poser or standalone -> http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2704761) or a utility from the FreeStuff ("Morpher" by kawecki).

oh, it's been fine otherwise.  i followed the export/import settings for Poser and Blender on PosetteForever, and they've been working perfectly.  i'm not (at all) good yet, but i'm having lots of fun with the sculpt tool.  it's wonderful.  the only thing i'd like so far is some standard brush controls to go with the any brush option. like adding options for square shape, aspect ratio and softness.  if anyone knows about locking some areas of  the mesh, that  would be great, and i suppose if i were an actual expert at virtual sculpting, i might be hankering for z-brush.  but right now i'm ecstatic.  i've been wanting something like this for ages, and it's both free and stable. 

i've tried turning on the "object groups" option, but it seems to have lost groups on import.  and when i import with groups to blender objects, it still doesn't seem to make different objects or groups.  i'll try more systematically tonight, and post settings. 

thank you for the advice and pointers.

The default for the "Context ..." section is "Selection Only", so make sure you have the meshes you want to export selected.

Some simple experiments exporting simple meshes (say some cubes) and examining the export OBJ will help you get the settings and mesh naming correct.

i had been thinking about doing that.   i'm not sure the problem isn't on import, and i figured just dealing with export might narrow the problem down.

The importer is (or used to be) responsible for the vertex reordering, for which the fix was to use a different (but older) import script (may still be possible if Python module changes haven't broken it).

When you import an OBJ, you should get one mesh for each group in the file (open an "Outliner" window makes it easy to check).
If you not seeing meshes named correctly (or your getting just one) check the Poser export options (you need just "Include existing groups").

i've only started at 2.44 and shifted to 2.45 recently, just to give you background.  it's built-in importer is  the only one i'm familiar with.  i do have the Outliner window open, and I seem to have materials but not groups.

there are options to make Blender objects on import out of objects, groups and materials, but none seem to work.   i decided to try and determine if it was the Poser export options by importing Posette's source obj.  i'm assuming meshes in the Geometries folder should have all their proper groups?  i'm sure i'm just missing something.

Which version of Poser are you using ?

P4NudeWom.obj has an empty group line at the beginning of the file, which is confusing the importer script, once removed this file will import correctly.

ok, maybe i'm doing something wrong, but none of these .objs have worked with groups to Blender objects on import:

• Posette's source - I have P6, but I probably do need to edit it.
• David's source
• A V4 head exported with groups that imports back into Poser OK

i'll take a look at the head in EditPad tonight.  if you have the time for any advice or information on what to look for or correct besides empty groups, that would be very kind and going above and beyond. 

There is a "Morph Target" option in the import dialog which says that selecting it preserves vertex and face order, so you'll definitely want to use that (this is new in 2.44) and the same for export.

To load Posette, you'll need to make the edit mentioned (use a copy of course).

No problems loading David ("blDavid.obj"), but you'll more than likely want to unselect material groups in the import settings.

If your exporting just V4's head, you should have just one group, if your exporting the eyes, then you should have three, if your including the teeth and tongue, you'll have several more (again unselect material group on import).
The only option that should be checked on export from Poser is "Include existing groups in polygon groups".

Precision problems caused by the natural size of Poser objects can be avoided by scaling the OBJ (up before import, down after export) using OBJAction Scaler (see FreeStuff) or possibly inside Blender itself; 10 or 100 are probably the best values to try.
Even differences in the last decimal place are noticeable when the morph is applied.

unfortunately, there are problems.  none of these are making objects or seem to have groups in Blender, despite my import settings.  i know the plain head should be one group, but it was with the eyes.  just to check, i imported the head right back into Poser and verified that it had groups.  i know how to export and import in both Poser and Blender for single group Poser morph  targets. like i said, i'm not good yet but i'm having fun. 

i've been scaling up (and down) by 10.  since 1 Blender unit seems to be 1 m in several renderers, i figured it was a good rule of thumb for scale. 10 seemed to fit a lot better than y100, and i wanted an easy conversion.

if you want verification, i'll post screen captures tonight.

This is a tutorial for Blender and Compose some people have reported good results with. I didn't get it to work but I tried it late one night and prob. screwed it up.

http://www.posetteforever.com/discussion2870.html

Thanks for the link.  This is the tut I mentioned,  sorry to rayera  (if he is  reading)  for  getting  authorship  wrong.

Hi cobaltdream!

I have a method to create morphs in blender on more than one body part, and then exporting those back to use in poser without using a 3rd party tool.... Only skimmed over the rest of this thread so if im missing the point, just ignore this post....but if this is what you are looking to do and don't have a solution yet, I'm am more than willing to share how I do it...Just let me know if you are interested because it will be a good bit of typing!

I use Blender 2.44!

Cheers

thanks to everyone for their replies! 

yes, that is what i'm interested in.   someone has emailed me one method, but i'd still be interested to hear yours.  sorry that i've been quiet all this time.  i've been getting back to finishing some images, rendering some stuff, and trying to comment and critique more.  but i really appreciate how supportive and helpful everyone has been.  and i'll need to know more soon...

thanks to everyone for their replies! 

yes, that is what i'm interested in.   someone has emailed me one method, but i'd still be interested to hear yours.  sorry that i've been quiet all this time.  i've been getting back to finishing some images, rendering some stuff, and trying to comment and critique more.  but i really appreciate how supportive and helpful everyone has been.  and i'll need to use all this help soon...

Ok here goes! Will try to keep it short. Will do it in a step process!

Step 1) Export from poser  as "morph target" only!
Step 2) Import into Blender with only "morph target" and "separate groups" sellected!
Step 3) Go to edit mode desellect everything. (A key) When you hover mouse pointer over part of the mesh and press L key, you should notice you can sellect model groups even though they not named!
Step 4) create your morphs(edit mesh)!
Step 5) Save your blend file
Step 6) In edit mode use L key and delete all groups except the group you going to export! Then in object mode export your group! Make sure to sellect only as "morph target" and "rotate 90 degrees"!
Step 7) In edit mode undo your last actions or reload your blend file and follow the same procedure till all parts have been exported!
Step 8) Import morphs into poser(Load Morph Target), each morph to the right body part (group)...and Create Full Body Morph when you are done.

Ok that was very short.....some points to note. I do not use any scaling.....You also mentioned working with a partner.....I am not sure if you are allowed to share these morphs like this....this you would have to check.....maybe someone else can advise on this?
Also in Blender don't sepate the parts(groups) using the P(separate) command to save time...this will not work...you have to delete the unwanted groups as explained!

Please let me know if this was helpfull to you!  Have only tried it on Blender 2.44

Cheers!

thanks so much for taking the time to write the at up.  that does help a lot. 

No probs!

Hello people, I'm rayera, compose is needed if you want to use smooth and inflate tool without problems (try this tools in the seam of two groups), it's not a Blender problem, this procedure is needed for doing full body morphs in Zbrush as well, but if you don't use this tools you can do it in this way:

1. Export you figure from pose using only Include bodypart name in poligon groups and As morph target (no world transformation)
2. Import your character to blender using ONLY Morph target option, and clamp scale set to 0
3. Do your morph but remember not to use Smooth or inflate.
4. Export your morph using only Rotate X90 and Morph target but don't overwrite the original obj
5. Load the morphed figure in UVMapper (yes I know you wanted to do it all inside Blender, but it's the easyer and faster  way IMHO (and UVMapper is an aplication everybody use and have ), you'll be alerted you figure have no UVMap, don't care about it, go to File/Import UVs or just press CTRL+I and load your original obj exported from Poser, save you morph with the default options
6. Import your morphed figure in Poser, with all options uncheked, now you can spawn the body parts in props with the groupping tool, load your charater and inject the morph with the wonderfull script I provide whith my tutorial, or export part by part as obj using only As morph target (no world transformation)

Hope I've been useful.

Hi ima70!

Thanx for the input!! Where do I get the compose tool! I tried following the links above but I get an "access forbidden" message. Is there a different link to follow? 

On the alternative method you posted. I use to export it first to uv mapper...then to poser...then spawn props.....but I found that if I export one group at a time from blender( by deleting the other groups) I can skip this whole process...saves me time!...:)  I suppose it does depend what areas you working on or if you going to use that script you mentioned. Can that script be found at the same place as the compose tool?

Cheers!

Hello Daniel:

Follow the link in the first post from my tutorial at Posette Forever:

http://www.posetteforever.com/discussion2870.html

I tryed today and the link is working.

The Python script to transfer the spawned props as full body morphs to the figure is an atatchment in the first poset too, it's not a link to other place so you shouldn't have problems downloading it.

Good Blending and Morphing! :-)

Thanx....rayera!

Will give it a go!

thanks again to everyone for all the information and links!