I must admit I am a little surprised and disappointed by some of the replies.

I have been told to Quote – “STFU”. (If your like me and don’t understand all these acronyms. The reason I had to ask about “OP”) Its “shut the fuck up”

I have been called a Quote – “yob”.

And even Quote - “flipping ungreatfull ba...you can guess the rest,” I’m guessing ungreatfull bastard.

Another has even implied that most, if not all artist here will never be of a standard to sell their work. (mmm that really what they think of us?) So it really dose not matter how they package their stuff.

Then there was the old favourite (it never takes long before it rolls around).

Quote – “If you don’t like it why don’t you make your own”. That statement is so pointless I will not even bother to give a reply space.

I will state again some of my original post. As some have a/ missed it or b/ not understood it.

I am not having a go free stuff makers

Quote - “That some one has taken the time to make an item and to offer for free. To those I take my hat of to”

Some think that I believe “I should be free to use free stuff any way I want”

I don’t. It is your gift to us poser users, you can put any limits you want on it.

Quote –“ Be it open use or non-commercial only. I don’t mind”

What I am saying is” IT IS VERY IRRITATING having found an item that you feel will add something to an image you are creating. To check the details on the detail tab. Only to find the complete opposite in the read me.

That is the point of this post. Its not about the usage it about poor packaging.

To those that have understood this post and shown sympathy, also for the private mail. Thanks. Its good to know I am not alone.

SoulTaker, I feel the same way.

A big thank you to all freebie providers. Yes, you are free to restrict commercial use. But if you do, please set switch accordingly when posting into free stuff. For me (I would suspect for most people here) this means only that they may use the freebie in commercial renders, not that they might sell it.

I for my part try to get only stuff which IS commercially usable, since I had a hard time sorting out what I can use as I made a commercial render for a friend of mine. No, I didn't make much money with it. No, I do not make commercial renders very often. But I don't want that checking thing again.

I hate it, when I download a freebie, unzip it just to read that commercial use isn't allowed. Pretty please set the commercial flag right.

Thank you.

That's how I feel about this, and I think that's exactly what SoulTaker means.

SoulTaker, you've got a very good point - it should be stated clearly up front whether a free item is licensed for commercial use, and if so, if that is a limited or unlimited license. Thanks for, at the very least, not making this about "how free is "free," an argument I'm sure we've seen more than enough of.

I've made free items under both licenses - generally, if it's a model of something for which others hold the copyrights, I'll state up front that it is for non-commercial use only, and I think that's something that anyone should do. It's also the responsibility of any content maker to do this whenever he or she uses the intellectual property of another as the basis for their own work. By the same token, there is a responsibility on the user's part to use common sense - if you've downloaded something that's clearly from Star Trek or some other known commercial property, don't express outrage when you "discover" that you can't use it in commercial works - for that matter, even if it doesn't say this, common sense should tell you to err on the side of caution and not use it so.

If someone has been misled by how R'osity allows the Details tab to be worded, or by unclear or even missing Read me files, than by all means, let's address the problems and get them fixed. If someone has made assumptions, however, then I think that's an issue of personal expectations that needs to be addressed on a personal level - in obvious cases, not everything needs to be spelled out, and complaining about it won't change that.

>> What I am saying is” IT IS VERY IRRITATING having found an item that you feel will add something to an image you are creating. To check the details on the detail tab. Only to find the complete opposite in the read me.

Okay, since it seems we sometimes have to bludgeon the point home.....

All the donor is saying is "take a few seconds out of your otherwise incredibly valuable life and drop me a line letting me know what's going on with my stuff". I dont think that's terrible. I dont think that's a huge impediment.

Yes, it's annoying that Rosity cant find some other way to make the distinction of commercial and non-commercial, but when you consider that "commercial" can mean anything from "you can sell it as is and I dont care" to "yes you can make for-pay textures for it" to "yes you can use it in any work that gives you a few bucks" - those are three very different levels of how "commercial" is viewed around here.

So the donor looks at this and thinks, "Okay, I dont mind commercial work done with my stuff; just let me know so I can, in essence, make sure that whatever youre gonna do isnt gonna get me into trouble in the process". I dont think that's a huge inconvenience, sorry. A little paranoid sometimes, but some folks are. And yeah, maybe the donor should have said something to that effect in the "details" tab since the other one is, yes, pretty limiting. You're not being stopped from using it in commercial work. You just have to ask permission, which is probably gonna be pretty easy. And as to why you should have to ask, wel, that's just one of those things that we have to deal with sometimes when we get things for free. There aint no free lunch most times. Is honouring one tiny little request in the process of usage so terrible?

Quote - With all the moaning about freebies with commerical restrictions here and elsewhere, you'd think that people are making lots of money from their Poser renders. Are they? How can I get in on that action?

That's just the problem, it's not poser users and hobbyists that end up ripping you off. But if you give a blanket non commercial license, you've given it to the whole world, not just poser community.

Quote - I was gonna say, until I got to the final few posts, that folks seem to forget that there's a "details" tab which would be the perfect place to put whatever information you want about usage. And perhaps that means that, instead of "commercial and non-commercial", Rosity could simply add "see details for usage"? I mean, that's no big deal to program in, is it?

Not a big deal at all to put that in, and I usually do, in product details or in the readme file.
However, I've gotten bitched at by more then one person that it's waaay too much trouble to actually read the readme of a freebie someone wnts to use.

Especially in my newer non-commercial freebies, in the readme I've put a description that it's only significant commercial use that is not allowed.
I forget the exact verbiage at the moment, but it's something like, if you make a profit of more then $1000 using it, it's not free and you have to contact the freebie provider for terms.

Most of the responses were that it's just too much trouble to bother with the readme, and even with the product dsescription. People whom complained wanted an easily visible demarkation of 'commercial allowed' or 'commercial not allowed', and anything more complex then that was too complicated, and the freebie providers were the bad guys for wanting to define things in better terms before blanketly giving their rights away. (This is based on a recent set of thread sabout freebies that spaned Rendo and DAZ forums)

Very frustrating.  I think the OP also has a misfortune to post this topic perhaps just the few weeks after the recent upheaval about freebies, where  lot of feelings on the topic may still be pretty raw.

I know my first thought whan I saw the thread title was, man, ANOTHER person bemoaning stuff they get for free, and acting like it's their entitlement.

Quote - What I am saying is” IT IS VERY IRRITATING having found an item that you feel will add something to an image you are creating. To check the details on the detail tab. Only to find the complete opposite in the read me.

If you'e hoping to do any commercial artwork, you're going to have to get used to spending a fair amount of time on checking copyrights and usage permissions. It's about as fun and entertaining as doing taxes, but all of us whom do any commercial artwork HAVE to do it. Once you venture on the commercial side, you'll have to put some work into things that you don't like doing.... like copyrights paperwork.

Renderosity unfortunately doesn't have 'some rights reserved' category, or small time commercial use' allowed, and those like me whom choose 'Non-Commercial use' checkbox end up having to put up with 'hate mail' about being stingy for not allowing commercial use, before people even bother to read the readme - which specifies that most 'poserdom' related commercial use is actually allowed, and in most cass commercial license is granted with no royalties, or even credt asked.

I understand the frustration, but I have a hard time sympathizing with it, because I and everyone else doing commercial graphics have to shut up and put up with the same frustrating process, and then some. (like if you offer freebies, not only that you have to do what you're doing, you also have to listen to people bemoaning that they have to do the same.)  Yeah, the freebies come packaged in every which way, and using them for commercial stuff can be a PITA.

At some point, commercial artists discover that there's a fair amount of value in commercially packaged products with a lot of items whose copyright and terms of use are very clear.

Hell, I'd love to use other people's freebies too, and make money off of them, and not have to worry about paperwork and copyright details. And I'd love to have a Pink Pony and a Rolls Royce with that as well.

I agree with the OP, to use the term once again :-)

I've stopped downloading freebies from Rendo completely. There's some great stuff here, but I rather be safe then sorry. I also noticed that even some of the licenses change over time, that even adds to the frustration. There are only a couple of places I feel 'safe' to download freebies from, knowing they can be used for commercial and non-commercial.

Another thing is, with over 12Gb of content in my runtimes, I noticed I tend to forget where I did get stuff from. I may have downloaded an item with the intention to use it in a fun render, but months or even years later I incorporate it into a commercial render. By that time I often have no clue where I did get it from, who made and what the license on it was and I lack time to even try to find out which license belonged to which product. So, to avoid any risks, I emptied my runtimes end of last year, re-installed everything, except most of the freebies from Rendo and some other places that don't have a clear policy on the freebie terms.

This place needs a different approach to freebies..... instead of dumping them all into one place, a division needs to be created. A place for non commercial freebies and a place for commercial use freebies and perhaps even thigh the last category to the marketplace.

Well, the second quote seems to answer the problem of the first quote... sorta.

There is, in fact, a "better way": Make your own stuff. That would fall under the "better things to do with my time" thing, as I see it. End of worries and concerns, end of problem.

If I had the time to do that, I sure wouldn't be using Poser anymore. I've made and sold lots of models for games over the years, spending countless hours modeling. Now I'm trying to balance a family, 2 part-time jobs, a full time education on top of it, trying to get some decent night rests and so on and so on. I really don't have the luxury that I used to have being able to spent umlimited hours on modeling. Things change over time. BUT  I do like to create some renders once in a while and get hired to do so ever once in a while also. That's whay I love Poser, it was a great solution for my problem. If it wasn't for Poser, I would have left 3D years ago and never would have been able to create anymore 3D related projects. I use Poser for a reason, I lack time for modeling, if I still had the time I wouldn't be here.

You've got a way too simplistic view on this whole matter, if things would be that easy, we all would model and this whole community wouldn't exsist at all.

Hell, I'd love to use other people's freebies too, and make money off of them,

Sorry Conniekat8 - but that comes across as really greedy. Do some folks here really just see the good faith and effort an artist puts into a freebie as just another way to line their own pockets?

As someone said eariler about community being dead, and it's all about money now, then why bother with freebies anymore. Why not charge for everything and let the market decide if it's worthwhile or not?

Maybe go further and harge for membership fees or maybe $25 to post an image.

Quote - > Quote - Hell, I'd love to use other people's freebies too, and make money off of them, .

Sorry Conniekat8 - but that comes across as really greedy. Do some folks here really just see the good faith and effort an artist puts into a freebie as just another way to line their own pockets? .

It's supposed to sound greedy, I was being sarcastic.
The way I've seen people so adamantly complain about freebies not being allowed for significant commercial use, I wonder the same thing.

On the other hand, some of us make a living and feed out families by doing 3D work (within and outsode Poser realm). Are you suggesting wanting to have my bills paid before I give away things I make is greedy? Perhaps you're independently wealthy and have a skewed perception that people people trying to make a living are greedy. I'm not.

Also, you can rest assured, I'm not getting rich off of you or poser community, and very much resent your allusions to being greedy. Couple hundred bucks I made on one item I have in the marketplace doesn't come even close to paying my bills, much less lining my pockets.

:lol: That's waht you can expect if you tag your freebies for non commercial use only, people judging you labeling you as 'greedy'.
You offer a hand, and they tell you unless you give and arm and a leg, you're greedy and not giving them enough.
No wonder people don't dare to check 'non commercial use only' tag, but bury it in the readmes.

Actually, it makes me want to remove my freebies all together. This whole Poser community crap seems like one big waste of time and energy.

*It's supposed to sound greedy, I was being sarcastic.
*My apologys - I didn't see the scarcasm.

Are you suggesting..
You personally ? Of course not - but the way some folks are making this issue out it's sounds like the freebies creators are restricting their chances of making extra bucks. Now thats what I consider as greedy.

I also sell content as well and know very well what the financial situation is like for creators.

*independently wealthy

• Of course I am. My fleet of private jets is staffed by starving poser artists on minimum wage :)

*You offer a hand, and they tell you unless you give and arm and a leg, you're greedy and not giving them enough.

*Posted before your 2nd message - and yes thats what it does feel like. 
I sense we agree - just saying it in different ways. 

Though I wouldn't pull my freebies or make them all non commerical just because of a few selfish numptys.  

Quote - *It's supposed to sound greedy, I was being sarcastic.
*My apologys - I didn't see the scarcasm.

Are you suggesting..
You personally ? Of course not - but the way some folks are making this issue out it's sounds like the freebies creators are restricting their chances of making extra bucks. Now thats what I consider as greedy.

I also sell content as well and know very well what the financial situation is like for creators.

*independently wealthy

• Of course I am. My fleet of private jets is staffed by starving poser artists on minimum wage :)

Ah, sounds like we agree then.
Sorry I'm ranting, I'm on the edge about the topic, in the past I had been accused of being greedy and selfish for restricting commercial use of my freebies. It's become a pet peeve.

I've seen the fleet of your jets, cars and helicopters- in your freebie offerings :tt2:

Ah, sounds like we agree then.
Cool - hugs from the kittys.

*Sorry I'm ranting, 
*Rant away - It's good for the soul :)
I do know what you mean there.

A few months back some one asked if they could use all my freebies on their site, and would I mind removing them from my site and elsewhere until they'd got a good reputation on theirs.
I know a few other PA's who got that one as well.  

You gotta love this business sometimes!  :)     

Quote - Hell, I'd love to use other people's freebies too, and make money off of them,

Sorry Conniekat8 - but that comes across as really greedy. Do some folks here really just see the good faith and effort an artist puts into a freebie as just another way to line their own pockets?

Actually, look at the original post. That's pretty much what he's saying.

Just raising the point.

Yep.

Quote - Ah, sounds like we agree then.
Cool - hugs from the kittys.

*Sorry I'm ranting, 
*Rant away - It's good for the soul :)
I do know what you mean there.

A few months back some one asked if they could use all my freebies on their site, and would I mind removing them from my site and elsewhere until they'd got a good reputation on theirs.
I know a few other PA's who got that one as well.  

You gotta love this business sometimes!  :)     

Kitty hugz! 
(I'm super grunpy for some reason today... headache too... snort)

I har you on the other thing. Was it you that mentioned that in the Commons discussion a while ago too, or was it someone else?

That's another thing, so few people dare to admint in public that one of the big resons they're offering freebies is for self promotion. To get reputation and get known for their work. Sometimes leading towards being a merchant, other times for the gratification of getting known.
Like that's some sort of a bad thing, getting ahead off of their own efforts. No, w should make it easier for others to get ahead using our efforts - if we don't, we're the bad guys.

(Ugh, I better go find something else to do before I start ranting again!!! Sore subject!)
:m_redfaced: :m_fit: :m_temper::m_temper::m_temper:

Food Fight anyone? How about a pillow fight? Pixel Fight? Paintball fight?

Quote -
That's another thing, so few people dare to admint in public that one of the big resons they're offering freebies is for self promotion. To get reputation and get known for their work. Sometimes leading towards being a merchant, other times for the gratification of getting known.
Like that's some sort of a bad thing, getting ahead off of their own efforts. No, w should make it easier for others to get ahead using our efforts - if we don't, we're the bad guys.

ROTFL... like it isn't obvious :)

/P

 I think where some of the conflict comes from is the term "free stuff" for a product that many of us see as being akin to "here's a free cupcake I made for you which you can put on your table but you can't eat it."  we don't want it on our computers as we don't find it useful for anything we do as we want all our images to be royalty free (just in case one day etc) but a lot of the time we pick it up accidentally when we didn't want it on our computers at all.
I think a lot of us would like to see it labeled as fun stuff or something else.  However it is not.  And if we want to pickup what we consider real free-stuff then we just have to be prepared to sift through all that other not for commercial render stuff and probably not complain about that, after all there's no such thing as a free lunch.  It would be really good (as the original poster suggested) if it was easy to see what it was before downloading.  I suspect most of us veterans of poser and 3d know that it is better not to download any free stuff unless it is a daz product that has been put on sale for zero dollars as that has the same EULA as all their commercial products.  
It must be awfully confusing for new people as they probably often put the wrong sort of 'freestuff" right into their main runtimes and then it would be difficult for them to find it and remove it again.
To me a free thing is actually exactly like the original thing only free.  The original thing is like a  thing you buy at daz or renderosity.  The free thing is the same as the bought thing ie with the same license but just free ie no cost.  If it's not the same then it's not free.  However I understand that other people might still find the thing with a different EULA useful even though I don't.  I just don't think it should be called free.
And please no  one say, if you don't like it don't download it.  Because I already don't download it and I don't want to.  I'm  not complaining about it being not free.  I just don't like it being called free.  but that's just my personal opinion.
Love esther
  

Quote - I agree with the OP, to use the term once again :-)

I've stopped downloading freebies from Rendo completely. There's some great stuff here, but I rather be safe then sorry. I also noticed that even some of the licenses change over time, that even adds to the frustration. There are only a couple of places I feel 'safe' to download freebies from, knowing they can be used for commercial and non-commercial.

Another thing is, with over 12Gb of content in my runtimes, I noticed I tend to forget where I did get stuff from. I may have downloaded an item with the intention to use it in a fun render, but months or even years later I incorporate it into a commercial render. By that time I often have no clue where I did get it from, who made and what the license on it was and I lack time to even try to find out which license belonged to which product. So, to avoid any risks, I emptied my runtimes end of last year, re-installed everything, except most of the freebies from Rendo and some other places that don't have a clear policy on the freebie terms.

This place needs a different approach to freebies..... instead of dumping them all into one place, a division needs to be created. A place for non commercial freebies and a place for commercial use freebies and perhaps even thigh the last category to the marketplace.

Well, the second quote seems to answer the problem of the first quote... sorta.

There is, in fact, a "better way": Make your own stuff. That would fall under the "better things to do with my time" thing, as I see it. End of worries and concerns, end of problem.

If I had the time to do that, I sure wouldn't be using Poser anymore. I've made and sold lots of models for games over the years, spending countless hours modeling. Now I'm trying to balance a family, 2 part-time jobs, a full time education on top of it, trying to get some decent night rests and so on and so on. I really don't have the luxury that I used to have being able to spent umlimited hours on modeling. Things change over time. BUT  I do like to create some renders once in a while and get hired to do so ever once in a while also. That's whay I love Poser, it was a great solution for my problem. If it wasn't for Poser, I would have left 3D years ago and never would have been able to create anymore 3D related projects. I use Poser for a reason, I lack time for modeling, if I still had the time I wouldn't be here.

You've got a way too simplistic view on this whole matter, if things would be that easy, we all would model and this whole community wouldn't exsist at all.

Hmmm, i have downloaded a lot of freebies from Rendo, and i do check the read me file they include, but, yea, i too have over 8Gb of stuff in my runtime folder, so i don't remember what can be used for commercial renders and what cannot...

I was going to give this commercial renders a shot, but after what i read here, i think i'll pass...

(i'm trying to learn how to make stuff for poser, but i have a very thick skull, i found it it's very hard to do, and when i ask for help most of the time i get ignored... so doh)

 Why don't you start a new runtime that just contains non-commercial stuff?  It's a lot of work but for the peace of mind and freedom you will find it worth doing.
Love esther
PS ask me anything. I will help.

All the "free stuff" at Renderosity has a link to a description that can be clicked and read before you download. Do the creators not spell out whether the item can be used for profit in this pre-description? Not that it should be required. There are so many hoops to jump through already.

Quote - :lol: That's waht you can expect if you tag your freebies for non commercial use only, people judging you labeling you as 'greedy'.
You offer a hand, and they tell you unless you give and arm and a leg, you're greedy and not giving them enough.
No wonder people don't dare to check 'non commercial use only' tag, but bury it in the readmes.

Actually, it makes me want to remove my freebies all together. This whole Poser community crap seems like one big waste of time and energy.

It's you free stuff, you decide how to use it. It's sad, but people will cry anyway.
But will you get rid of the "greedy"-tag if you simply don't state  it before download?
You just annoy the people who don't want to download non-commercial free stuff.

By the way, this wasn't started as a "bitching for more commercial use"-thread. It was "please use the correct label". A lot of postings here IMHO miss the theme.

Quote - All the "free stuff" at Renderosity has a link to a description that can be clicked and read before you download. Do the creators not spell out whether the item can be used for profit in this pre-description? Not that it should be required. There are so many hoops to jump through already.

 
We already have a "commercial" or "non-commercial" flag. If your licence really needs to be more complicated than that, yes, I would be happy if the description would give a hint before downloading.

Quote - By the way, this wasn't started as a "bitching for more commercial use"-thread. It was "please use the correct label".

I must point out (for the third time now) there is no correct label for what is proably the biggest category - commercial renders OK, redistribution and resale not OK.  Bitching at people for not picking a choice that can't be picked is what this thread is really about.

Quote -  I think where some of the conflict comes from is the term "free stuff" for a product that many of us see as being akin to "here's a free cupcake I made for you which you can put on your table but you can't eat it."

Actually,  it would be more like "here's a free cupcake that I made, just don't go around selling the recipe, or charging others admission to look at it, please." ;)

/P

ST I can see your point, but look at my point as a professional and content provider. If I offer something for free, I get no compensation for it. Say John Smuck for Advertising Co Down the Street Inc. downloads it and uses it in a multi million $$ ad, I still get no compensation and John Smuck does.

Does that seem fair?

I usually don't have a non commercial use in my free items (except one for obvious reasons)  but I maybe changing that in the near future.

throwing myself to the wolves here, but I totally understood the OPs point.  Didn't come across as rude or anything to me.

• It is rude to ask that the readme clearly state commercial or non-commercial use.
  ...really?

Lately this forum has gone from alot of open give and take to a place where everyone just waits for someone to post so they can jump all over them and tell them they had NO RIGHT to even so much as state an opinion.

It's possible that some freestuff providers appreciate feedback on the way they handle thier packaging and were not aware of the fact that others were having trouble.  It is possible in this crazy universe that the freestuff providers want to actually improve and feedback helps them.

People should stop reading through every post looking for the one negative thing in it that they can latch onto.  It's simply not beneficial to the community.  I really think there is more value in the free exchange of ideas than there is in the freestuff area anyway.   

To get back to the original point.  I agree.  It should clearly say either way in the details tab as well as in the read me.  Additionally I think the details tab should have mandatory details in order to be posted here.  I think alot of quality in that section could stand to be improved. 

Even the Goodwill has standards on what they will and will not take to hand out to the public.  If someone went to the goodwill asking for some shirts and only recieved ones full of holes and ketchup stains - would they not be a little upset??  Or should they grovel with thankfulness for the shreds of fabric they did recieve?  Or I know, just take it and STFU!!!!!  Or don't take it and STFU!  Bottom line STFU!!!!

SoulTaker is 100% right,  It is VERY frustrating to go through the Freebies section, find somethig useful that says it's okay for Commercial use, then you download it only to read some comment in the Read Me file that says, "Oh no, I'm too stupid to put this in the right category, what I meant to say was that this is NOT okay for commercial use."  Just say so up front and I won't download or use it.  

Okay. Yes, I'm ranting.  But it is NOT too much to ask that someone properly categorize their work.  Now, if the work falls into a murky category, that's a different issue.  But if you don't want it used commercially, then just say so.  The issue has NOTHING to do with whether there should be freebies or not (man, some of you are off on tangents).  The ONLY issue is: Please label them correctly in the first place!  PLEASE!

By the way, I posed my one Freebie because I thought I'd share something just to be nice. I needed some dice for an image, couldn't find what I wanted, so I made some and then shared them with others who might need them. Are they that great?  No, not really, but apparently 200+ people thought they were worth looking at since I uploaded them four years ago.  And yes, I allow commercial use.

Miss Nancy:  "give the freebie creator a percentage of sales for any commercial use"

No problem!  Let's see, my book retails for $24.95 and has 178 pages. I downloaded a small element to go into one of the 85 images appearing in the book (or should we just limit it to the 27 CGI images in the book?). Anyway, that image where the freebie prop was used takes up about 5-7% of the space in the image... but on the other hand, it's 1 out of about 30 elements used in the image - the others were paid for); or do we consider that the entire image takes up about 1/3 of the page?  So, what's a fair amount?  And, of course, we should base this on Net sales not Gross sales, so we should probably cut that by 60%. 

Please, let me know what you think a fair percentage is for including a freebie spitoon in the back of a bar scene in a Western gaming book.

Looks like there's some misunderstanding about "commercial use."

As I understand it, it means using the item in a render/animation/print that is sold commercially. In that case, I assume "free" means "free". If the freebie maker allows commercial use in this sense, he/she cannot expect any financial compensation.

Selling the item itself? That is just plain simply not allowed. An item may be marked for "commercial USE". Downloading a freebie and then selling it as if you made it yourself, that's not commercial use, that's a direct and plain copyright violation.

In the marketplace, 'rosity has a standard EULA. If you buy something at the MP, you can use it according to the rules laid down in the Renderosity EULA. The vendor may grant the buyer additional rights, but as far as I know, he/she cannot take away rights granted by the 'Rosity EULA.

Something similar might be useful in the freestuff section. A Renderosity standard freebie EULA for non-commercial use and a Renderosity standard freebie EULA for commercial use - which one appliies is up to the freebie maker, Additional rights can be granted (in a readme, for example), but don't have to be.
That way, when you download a freebie, you know exactly what your minimum rights are, so the kind of nasty surprise the OP encountered is eliminated.

First off I would like to thank all the freebie makers....your work is appreciated even if we don't say it enough.  I understand the original posters questions and a few of the responses are the details are in the readme.  Thats where I have a problem. 

Why does everyone call it "readme".... I can't keep track of them and they keep getting overwritten so unfortunately I can't tell what your terms of use are.  This is just not freebies but purchased items too.  My one suggestion would be please name it something meaniful like "elmerfuddreadme" or whatever your product is called so people can see what your terms of uses are.

I can understand the frustrations on both sides but I think all the original poster was asking was please be upfront about what the conditions or restrictions are.  I don't think they were picking on anyone just expressing their frustration at expecting one thing and then finding out it was something different.  Imagine ordering that perfect pair of shoes online and waiting for them to be delivered...only once you got them they were 2 sizes too small.... you don't hate the shows or the maker but you are frustrated.  Even if you can return them, you can get back the time lost.

Just my humble opinion, that and about $3.75 will get you a gallon of gas....

Quote - I must point out (for the third time now) there is no correct label for what is proably the biggest category - commercial renders OK, redistribution and resale not OK.  Bitching at people for not picking a choice that can't be picked is what this thread is really about.

As I stated earlier, I don't think that most people understand the label in the way you do. I find it pretty clear that the freestuff here is not published for further distribution. And, by the way, this still can be clarified in the ReadMe. I don't think there are much people here scanning the freestuff for things they can legally sell somewhere else. To my experience, people who try to sell other peoples stuff from here mostly don't care about copyright, they may use any excuse. Actually, harvesting free stuff and selling it otherwhere has a foul stench even if copyrights are honored. I may be naive, but I haven't seen this a lot.

There is no reason why someone should think he could sell other people's freestuff just because the "commercial allowed" flag is set. There is no reason not to read or follow the ReadMe-file. **Adiing to that, please note that  the main problem as I see it are users who flag their stuff as "commercial use allowed" and disallow in the read me.
**
By the way, I have no problems with people NOT setting the commercial flag. I will not download, so I won't waste my time. If you think you need to set your free stuff to "no commercial" even if you allow  commercial renders you are fine by me.

Quote - Looks like there's some misunderstanding about "commercial use."

As I understand it, it means using the item in a render/animation/print that is sold commercially.

That may be the way you understand it, but it's not a safe assumption that everyone agrees.  Lots of people do indeed resell items of all sorts that were given away free.
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLJ,GGLJ:2006-52,GGLJ:en&q=sell+freebies

By the way, if the OP hadn't had a big pile of "FUCK YOU AND DIE" in his homepage my initial reaction might not have been quite so poor.

Yup. I used to post my practice models in Freestuff at a few places... until I found a slew of them converted to some game format for sale (including my handpainted textures) at a site. The only restriction I ever put on them was "no redistribution", which was obviously ignored. Now I just give them to friends. You want to use one of my couches in a commercial render you get paid thousands for, that's fine. You built the scene and did the lighting and render. But you simply run it through a converter and sell the mesh? That's not all right. And that's not what I meant by ok for commercial use.

pjz99:
I never looked at the homepage of the OP. It's just that I have the same problem.
And, to state it again - as long as you mark everything "non commercial", everything is fine. I just get annoyed by wrongly marked non-commercial stuff. Which has nothing to do with your different interpretation of the commercial flag, since (if I got you right) you will not set anyway.

And just showing Google links to articles where "selling free stuff" shows up is dubious too, IMHO. I know a guy who collects advertisment buttons and -pins, which are usually free stuff in the first place, traded by collectors afterwards. I would assume most links there are about physical free stuff, which can be sold without moral problems IMHO. As I said earlier, in my experience people who sell other people's Poser freebies will ignore copyrights anyway.

scanmead:
Yes, there are people who sell stuff illegally. But I seriously doubt you can prevent or further that with the "commercial use" flag here. If you want to prevent that, you cannot publish your models. That people do not honor copyright is sad, but has nothing to do with wrongly flagged freestuff.

By the way, I have read the homepage now, it's not polite or nice, but "Fuck you and die" IMHO is not the same as "I don't care about you". But I may have gotten that wrong too.

Quote - By the way, this wasn't started as a "bitching for more commercial use"-thread. It was "please use the correct label". A lot of postings here IMHO miss the theme.

They didn't 'miss the theme', they drifted into a related issue.

Quote - > Quote -  I think where some of the conflict comes from is the term "free stuff" for a product that many of us see as being akin to "here's a free cupcake I made for you which you can put on your table but you can't eat it."

Actually,  it would be more like "here's a free cupcake that I made, just don't go around selling the recipe, or charging others admission to look at it, please." ;)

Amen to that!!!!

Quote - * It is rude to ask that the readme clearly state commercial or non-commercial use.
...really?

I'd say something to the effect of: 
"freebie providers, please make the nature of use clear up front, I find it hard frustrating and time consuming to sort through it all" -  is definately not rude.

Something to the effect of:
"free stuff,non-commercial only.just bloody well say so up front....I am getting really pissed off with free stuff......Get it bloody sorted. I have better things to do with my time." 

That's pretty darn rude approach, IMO. Not the type of approach I would recommend to anyone seeking resolution of the matter.

If you were in a restaurant and they made an error on the order... do you recommend jumping up and down and attacking the waitress or a waiter for screwing it up, or would you politely bring it to their attention that things aren't as you ordered them?

Usually, I detest people whom go for the waiter/waitresses jugular when a restaurant makes a mistake.

Quote - Now, if the work falls into a murky category, that's a different issue.  But if you don't want it used commercially, then just say so. 

Well, the OP complained that an item was labeled as commercial use ok, and then in the subsequent fine print it said (Copying from the original post):
“These items are not to be used in any commercial work without obtaining permission from the copyright holders. Intended for personal artwork props only.”

To me it obviously falls in the murky category, one that doesn't have a 'checkbox' for
'some types of commercial use limited'
or 'Commercial use allowed with credit to the author'
or 'Small time commercal use allowed, over $$$ amount, must obtain permission'
or 'you can use it an an online render, but not in a book illustration'
or 'you can render it out, but you can not makea statue of it or partially modify the mesh and call it your own'
or whatever other permutations of restricted use there are.

Quote -
Miss Nancy:  "give the freebie creator a percentage of sales for any commercial use"

No problem!  Let's see, my book retails for $24.95 and has 178 pages. I downloaded a small element to go into one of the 85 images appearing in the book (or should we just limit it to the 27 CGI images in the book?). Anyway, that image where the freebie prop was used takes up about 5-7% of the space in the image... but on the other hand, it's 1 out of about 30 elements used in the image - the others were paid for); or do we consider that the entire image takes up about 1/3 of the page?  So, what's a fair amount?  And, of course, we should base this on Net sales not Gross sales, so we should probably cut that by 60%. 

Please, let me know what you think a fair percentage is for including a freebie spitoon in the back of a bar scene in a Western gaming book.

The trouble with blanketly allowing commercial usage is that you don't know if your item is going to be one of 50 items in the scene in a series of illustrations, or a central piece on a poster.
Which is why a lot of people like to restrict commercial use to 'at least contact me and let me know what kind of use'

Personally, I tried to define this even more by allowing commercial use resulting in monthly proceeds of $1000 a month or less. Anything over that amount, please contact the author for specific permissions.

If you;re going to make a book illustration and use it as one of many items, and you recieve one time fee of, let's say $2000 for making it... I'd be likely to say, sure, use it, no problem, no royalties.

If you're going to make it a central piece on an inspirational poster with three items and a quote on it, and sell the posters at $40 a piece, for next 10 years. In cases like that I may ask for royalties. Maybe 10% of your proceeds. Depending on what we calculate out to be a fair amount of work I put into things vs work you put into things.

"Usually, I detest people whom go for the waiter/waitresses jugular when a restaurant makes a mistake"

I agree 100%.  Actually I am adverse to going for the jugular in most circumstances.  This includes forums ;)
 
It's certainly sticky here lately.  Walking on eggshells to make sure that however you word something is the most acceptable possible version.  I have to say again it would benefit the forum greatly if people stopped looking through a post for a reason to disagree or be offended - looking for a negative - because if you approach it that way you will find it.  A better approach is to attempt to put yourself in that persons shoes and try to see what was meant by the statement.  It's hard to do sometimes but the outcome is more positive and community like for everyone.
Gunna go ahead and take my hippie banner off now =D

Quote - "Usually, I detest people whom go for the waiter/waitresses jugular when a restaurant makes a mistake"

I agree 100%.  Actually I am adverse to going for the jugular in most circumstances.  This includes forums ;)
 
It's certainly sticky here lately.  Walking on eggshells to make sure that however you word something is the most acceptable possible version.  I have to say again it would benefit the forum greatly if people stopped looking through a post for a reason to disagree or be offended - looking for a negative - because if you approach it that way you will find it.  A better approach is to attempt to put yourself in that persons shoes and try to see what was meant by the statement.  It's hard to do sometimes but the outcome is more positive and community like for everyone.
Gunna go ahead and take my hippie banner off now =D

Go look at the Original Poster's homepage here on rendo.
I'm not about to be willing to quietly swallow and bow my head to what appears to be habitual beligerance.

When someone walks in punching, I'll punch back in defense before I ask what they want. Why? Because I don't care to waste my energy on trying to remain calm due to their intrusion, nor do I care to expose myself to more of it. I'll take any stress the intruder caused right back on them and cut them off.
I'll save my emotional energy for people I like and care for. I'm not that much of a people person to be nice to every nut out there.

OT

Pjz99 I am starting to think you dont like me.

I had to go had have a look at the OP homepage, (that’s me) sorry if I sound a little confused. It’s just that I don’t recall saying, Quote –"FUCK YOU AND DIE" on my home page. So had to go and have a look, well I couldn’t see that written anywhere there?

Maybe you should go and see what it says for yourself. You don’t want to take my word for it. Or pjz99 word.

But take it as a whole, not just a line or two. Its not long.

(and maybe take a moment or two to think “did you need to buy that doodad, thingy bob. That you don’t really need anyway. So it only cost a few coins. But you do it every day and those coins add up and could be put to better use)

Sorry didn’t mean to preach. Or rattle any cans for the homeless, hungry, sick and dying. I have been told not to do that here.

Anyway back on topic.

Aside from the personal attacks and the sometimes-sideways step some have taken on this topic. I now have greater knowledge (I think) of the free stuff ”tab”. I am in no doubt someone will tell if I am wrong. But here goes.

1/ when one of those lovely people (well some are) puts up an item, there are only two choices

A, License: This is licensed for commercial or non-commercial use.

Or

B, License: *This is licensed for non-commercial use only.
*Or maybe its the other way round
Now I have always been of the understanding (as some of you have) that this meant.

I will quote svdl here, hope you dont mind >

 commercial use

“As I understand it, it means using the item in a render/animation/print that is sold commercially. In that case, I assume "free" means "free". If the freebie maker allows commercial use in this sense, he/she cannot expect any financial compensation.

Selling the item itself? That is just plain simply not allowed. An item may be marked for "commercial USE". Downloading a freebie and then selling it as if you made it yourself, that's not commercial use, that's a direct and plain copyright violation.”

While others have had a different understanding of the meanings.

So I think the problem is with the wording of the license and maybe this needs looking at. Maybe even changing. Ok so its up to rendo (surprised non of the rendo staff have shone any light on/in the post) to make the change in the wording (remember I am talking about the wording in the “details” tab on the download page here at rendo and not the read me file)
But maybe if we ask, they may think it over

Quote - Pjz99 I am starting to think you dont like me. ... the homeless, hungry, sick and dying.

Are you seriously trying for the sympathy hook now?  From "what makes you think I give a shit / I have no interest in what you think, feel, dream of or want" and "I have better things to do with my time" and "I'm sick and tired of shitty quality freebies" and various other gems, to swooning and fainting over how cruelty makes the world suck?  Wow.  Oh my god.  This thread needs a mute button real bad.

*"Go look at the Original Poster's homepage here on rendo.
I'm not about to be willing to quietly swallow and bow my head to what appears to be habitual beligerance.

When someone walks in punching, I'll punch back in defense before I ask what they want. Why? Because I don't care to waste my energy on trying to remain calm due to their intrusion, nor do I care to expose myself to more of it. I'll take any stress the intruder caused right back on them and cut them off.
I'll save my emotional energy for people I like and care for. I'm not that much of a people person to be nice to every nut out there.""*

I had gotten a look at his homepage, reviewed it again to be sure.  I guess I don't see what others are seeing. 
My interpretation of his homepage comments are that hes not here to make friends and he feels that some people are more interested in trivial things than ones he feels are important issues - perhaps this has left him somewhat bitter? 
Regardless Im not sure how this in any way at all relates to his feelings on whether or not an item should be marked clearly for commercial or non-commercial use. 

I don't see the habitual beligerance you are referring to?  TBH what he said is somewhat akin to your statement "I'm not that much of a people person to be nice to every nut out there."  Maybe his sentiments are poorly worded - I'm not sure if we should run him through the ringer for that.

I'm not trying to propose some "turn the other cheek" philosophy here.  Im saying we just might want to make sure that the person actually punched us, instead of maybe accidentally bumped us before we proceed to all out brawl action.

Quote - > Quote - By the way, this wasn't started as a "bitching for more commercial use"-thread. It was "please use the correct label". A lot of postings here IMHO miss the theme.

They didn't 'miss the theme', they drifted into a related issue.

But that's some kind of monologue. Nobody in this thread asked for more free commercially usable items, if I remember right. All posters agreed that the creator has the choice.

So, pretty please, can we drop that?

Pjz99
As you like quoting from my home page heres one for you. “I have no time for idiots, those that cannot see beyond there own back yard.”

quote >”Are you seriously trying for the sympathy hook now”  I am not after yours or anyone’s

Also if you are going to quote me the least you can do is GET IT BLOODY RIGHT. Nowhere have I said "I'm sick and tired of shitty quality freebies"