It wouldn´t so bad If they had given these new models at least some decent proportions, which would be the basic thing to do, even for low-polygon models, but everything is out of proportion: the head, the hands and the feet are too big, the neck is short, the belly button is too high, the crotch is too low, the breast are too small (woops, that nothing to do with proportion, but they look like a bad boob-job),
Even at long distance is it hard too make them look human, only when set my camera distance to 15mr. they starting to look a bit humanoid.
But there are other things that I just can't understand: If they where meant for long distance and so low-poly as possible, why do they have belly buttons, nipples and a very detailed ear, teeth, mouth and nose?
Let's face it: these models are way down below any standard. In my opinion SM let some  trainee do the job, which is a pity, because, with some flaws, they did a  great job with the rebuilt of the rendering engine to 64 bit, which is the biggest profit of Poserpro.
 Everyone is complaining for years about the bad memory management of poser, but with the 64bit version, it was possible for me, to finaly render a scene that poser7 refused to render because of memory problems.
I hope that the next iteration of poser, poser 8 will also have this 64 bit render, which shouldn't be a  problem now they launched this sidegrade, but I also hope it will have some nice new features and some less hilarious content.

Best regards,

Bopper.

I prefer exporting to another app - always have - so that's what I did. You could use the morph brush in Poser Pro too though.

Still going on about these low res dudes?

I'm more curious to know how many actually bought PP and what their experiences are. Mine has been very pleasant until now (got PP Base), except for one minor issue with texture paths.

I passed some post, while typing my reply, but the excuse of using Zbrush for pimping up their models with the new normalmap feature is a little lame. With other words: hey, our models suck, but they are just blank templates to create you own fantastic models. But you have to have Zbrush, which is more expensive than Poser (even pro), you need to know how Zbrush works, you have to be a great creative sculptor.

I could rattling along for some more time about this subject, but in the mean time I'm aware that this is a side grade which isn't meant for the regular poser user, but for the more professional market, with more money and more skills.

Bopper.

What is Body Studio?  It was supposed to released with PP 7, but I can't find a description.  People igonored my question before, but I'd appreciate answer because I am really clueless.

Could one remodel the low poly's with Hexagon and then reinport them into Poser?  I think that application is probably as similar to Quidam as one can get.

BTW Teyon, I am impressed with what you could do to the low poly guy in just 10 minutes.   I can see they have potential, especially for Toon models.

Watch out, friends of Dumpling 1 and Dumpling 2, Vincent is going to kick some low-poly ass.

This is a WIP - still some adjustments to the figure and color maps to be done, but I'm liking him already.

Quote - What is Body Studio?  It was supposed to released with PP 7, but I can't find a description.  People igonored my question before, but I'd appreciate answer because I am really clueless.

http://www.reiss-studio.com/

From direct experience with the company and the product, I cannot recommend it.

Quote - Could one remodel the low poly's with Hexagon and then reinport them into Poser?  I think that application is probably as similar to Quidam as one can get.

Yes, but you can do that with any figure within reason, with any modeler.  This is how Blackhearted and other folks have done their character morphs for a long time.  Pretty sure Posermatic ("Natural Gravity Morphs" guy) does his work with Cinema 4D and export/import of wavefront OBJ.

What is Body Studio?  It was supposed to released with PP 7, but I can't find a description.  People igonored my question before, but I'd appreciate answer because I am really clueless.

Body Studio is essential what is now called PoserFusion, for the integration with the high end applications. EF/SM bought the technology from Reiss Studio http://www.reiss-studio.com/

You can read more about the features of PP here: http://my.smithmicro.com/mac/poserpro/index.html

Quote - My problem is that the features in Pro Base, the version that would suit most of us, are the sort of features that I would expect to see in Poser 8. If these features are not in Poser 8, other features will be, meaning that I would have to switch between two version of Poser to get use of the different features. Alternatively, a new version of Pro may be released along with the new version of Poser. Do I switch upgrade paths now? Will I need to buy the pro pro if pro base doesn't have the same upgrade path? I don't want to pay an extra $50 for a bunch of real pro featues that I won't use. So, do I pay $150 now for Poser 7.9 or wait a while longer for Poser 8?

I think we need some clear statement regarding where Poser is going.

If you check on Smith Micro's site you will find that even if you take the crossgrade offer your serial number will still be good towards an update to Poser 8 and your copy of Poser Pro will be good to use for future upgrades along the PP path.

So this release is not an upgrade per se it is a new program being offered at a special price to Poser 6 and 7 owners.

You don't need ZBrush, you could use other tools like Blender or Silo or even Modo. Anything that accepts OBJ files to tweak the models.  I think what folks aren't understanding is that these aren't meant to be characters...they're meant to be building blocks for characters.  That's all. They are also not the main focus of the application.

Like a template to build your own figure?

Quote -
low res male after 10 minute tweak.

i fail to see an improvement.
there are serious issues with the entire eye area, corners of the mouth, nostrils, etc that are well beyond the average user's ability to fix. and again, if someone posesses the skillset to completely rework the mesh topology and then remap it they would just make their own figure from scratch.
and dont tell me that these are impossible to include in 15k, 30k poly models because on this very page is a low-res model that looks completely natural in comparison.

i also dont buy the 'building block' argument. with that line of reasoning i can release a cluster of high-res spheres as a 'redistributable figure', seeing as a talented morpher can morph them into a realistic human being.

the fact is that these models look amatuerish and from what i can see from the renders (since everyone refuses to post mesh shots) that includes the mesh layout as well. ive seen people produce better figures with their first modeling attempt following a tutorial.

rather than sitting back and vaguely refuting criticism id like to see some of you guys actually stand up and endorse these models.
something like:

'i think this is what a low and medium res figure should look like'*

or

'i believe these are quality figures made by professionals'.

• id love to get some of you on record saying that.
  come on... say it.... say it...

Well, it was only 10 minutes work and I do feel it looks better than it did. At anyrate, it's not the focus of the product, as I stated before. We can nitpick the models to our hearts content or, if you prefer, you could always write a letter expressing your dislike for them and why. There's also Nathan to play with if you want a model with more character but his fingers are a bit thin.

OK forget the low res figures. I guess they just got stuck in because SM felt bad about not being able to deliver the quidam integration that they promised.

I bought Poser Pro. Looks like P7, with nice rendering enhancements.

I shelled out 200 bucks for the full version - we don't want the company to go under - and I wanted the Collada import. Now I have been trying to import the makehuman mesh via collada and I just get a static object with no bones. Anyone out there had some success with this?

 It could have easily been this:

http://www.peopleforpeople.com/charts/charts.html

or this:

http://www.axyz-design.com/axyz-design-3d-humans-characters-metropoly-tpose-mespt0001.php

My point is, those 4 characters are not the focus of the program and they're intended to be worked on to actually turn them into a character but are not "characters" themselves. At the end of the day, it matters little to me, as I make my own models and will be using them in Pro. However, as I said, if it's bothering you that much, you should take it up with Smith Micro.

Quote - OK forget the low res figures. I guess they just got stuck in because SM felt bad about not being able to deliver the quidam integration that they promised.

I bought Poser Pro. Looks like P7, with nice rendering enhancements.

I shelled out 200 bucks for the full version - we don't want the company to go under - and I wanted the Collada import. Now I have been trying to import the makehuman mesh via collada and I just get a static object with no bones. Anyone out there had some success with this?

It would help if we knew where you were importing it into. Not all programs import collada files the same way, unfortunatley.

I was trying from makehuman into pp.

the point wasnt to nitpick the content but the fact that content like this was included at all in a program that already has an unfortunate 'noob' stigma attached to it.

there are dozens of skilled people in these forums that would have gladly have lent a hand to help give the content a bit of a facelift.

youve been to CGTalk. care to speculate on the reaction were someone to post a new thread there saying 'These are the new Poser Pro redistributable figures'? starting to see my point now?

how on earth is poser going to shed the noob stigma if shortcuts like this are taken?  poser is a hobbyist application but there is no reason on earth it cannot be accessible to novice users and be polished and professional.

Having read thru this thread I don;t want to take sides yet but one question does come to my mind...

Granting that these figures are meant to be improved, can some one show me the improvements MADE WITH POSER PRO'S internal tools only? I mean I would assume that if they were meant as base building blocks to be improved on, then they should easily be improved within the program they support, and so far none of the posted improvements have been (but the posters own admissions) done in Poser Pro. I'd like to see just how well they can be improved using the morph tool, face room etc and see the time line of those improvements.

Gee, I wish they'd made the morph tool work across group lines.. That single improvement would have made me pay for a cross grade.. As it is I'm on the fence.

inability to morph across group lines aside, the morph tool is incredibly underrated. so few people use it :(

rather than making face/figure morphs i think that its real advantage is being able to quickly touch up clothing pokethrough, joints, flexing muscles, creating expressions, etc.

making it morph seamlessly across group lines would be amazing... unfortunately we probably wont see that till poser 10 :)

I am totally in agreement with Blackhearted on this issue.

I love Poser. No argument about that. I have spent five years running a site and making my entire income off Poser. It is in my direct and personal selfish interest that Poser does well, that it breaks into the "Pro" arena, that it becomes more widely used, and that the company and program have a strong and prosperous future.

My problem is that Poserpro is aimed at the professional market. It offers integration with high end programs. Great. So these high end users may decide to give it a try, and if they like it, we have more users, a bigger market, and more money flows to Smith Micro to spend on Poser and it's development.

So if they had asked, I am sure that many of the highly talented people on this forum would have offered help, could have modelled better figures, could have written python scripts to ship with the program, could have tested integration and workflow with programs that high end users use, like ZBrush, Mudbox, etc.

I am not breaking down Poser, or Smith Micro, I am just expressing my dissapointment that once again, an opportunity to really improve Poser, to lift it out of it's "Poser is a ghetto" category, has been squandered on small things, such as these new figures.

I bet if he had been asked, Blackhearted, or many of the other fine modellers on this forum would have jumped at the chance to help on PoserPro. The owners of Poser, the people who run the show, have repeatedly said in forums and in interviews that the strong point of Poser is in it's very knowledgeable and professional user base. So maybe it is time for the makers of Poser to put their money where their mouth is, and to start leveraging the talents and skills freely available in these forums, and to start getting that highly knowledgeable user base involved in the development of Poser.

I agree,  but I think it's up to us. 

Ah, I thought you were going from Poser to another app. Not from another app to Poser. Collada import is limited at the moment.

Ah, I thought you were going from Poser to another app. Not from another app to Poser. Collada import is limited at the moment.

???

Where does it say that???
I read the Collada page very carefully before buying and it talks about import and export.

I should clarify - not all programs implement Collada in the same way, so some features may not export from your app or may not import into Poser.  There's a matrix of currently tested programs and the limitations you may run into working while using them with Collada. I don't think Project Human is on the list though... Not sure how to set it up to get things the way you want.

Quote - What is Body Studio?  It was supposed to released with PP 7, but I can't find a description.  People igonored my question before, but I'd appreciate answer because I am really clueless.

I believe that the PP ability to host scenes for 3D studio Max is the Body Studio function. I gathered they purchased it and made it an integral part of Poser Pro. In other words, you peobably won't find anything titled 'body studio' inside Poser Pro.
Instead, you see it able to host scenes for Max. I didn't see any advertising on improved hosting features compared to when it was body studio.

makehuman from http://www.dedalo-3d.com/
Projecthuman is something else (from sixus1)

This is bad news. I will persevere and do some more experiments.

I get those mixed up all the time.  If you do any experiments, feel free to post your results at the Poser Pro community wiki.

It'd be great if Collada was more standardized but...it's not. :/

Quote - You don't need ZBrush, you could use other tools like Blender or Silo or even Modo. Anything that accepts OBJ files to tweak the models.  I think what folks aren't understanding is that these aren't meant to be characters...they're meant to be building blocks for characters.  That's all. They are also not the main focus of the application.

I get it perfectly.
It's just that I don't like the look and feel of their building block with so many other, better ones around.

The way Phil C initially presented what can be done with Poser Pro, I was hoping that you are now able to sculpt and export them Poser Pro, and I missed that feature somewhere in ads. (This would increase it's value in my mind). Now this has been clarified to the same old process of using third party apps, with the exception that normal maps are now functioning as normal maps are supposed to.
So, in addition to displacement maps, you can now read in normal maps (created elsewhere).  Same thing that you always had to go through for creation of displacement and bump maps.

Not a feature that I would find all that interesting, not to a point it would make me want Poser Pro.

Quote - Well, it was only 10 minutes work and I do feel it looks better than it did. At anyrate, it's not the focus of the product, as I stated before.

What IS the focus of the product?
Sell it to me!

I'm not opposed to getting it if I see something I really want it for.

Quote - Ah, I thought you were going from Poser to another app. Not from another app to Poser. Collada import is limited at the moment.

???

Where does it say that???
I read the Collada page very carefully before buying and it talks about import and export.

If you wanna use Collada, you don't need Poser Pro.
D|S (the free version) has collada import and export built in.
My workflow is  Poser scene ->D|S->Collada Export->Max.

If someone thinks Collada is limited, you're in for a surprize With Body Studio. Collada works a a heck of a lot better  then Body Studio. now Poser Pro's scene hosting for max.  There's been a fair amount of discussions about both methods it in 3D Max forums over the last year.

What IS the focus of the product?
Sell it to me!

I'm not opposed to getting it if I see something I really want it for.

Buy it so SM can hire someone to come up with a decent marketing strategy.

...

Seriously, the background rendering is nice. I mainly bought it in the hope that the collada import would be useful for my project.

Quote -
What IS the focus of the product?
Sell it to me!

I'm not opposed to getting it if I see something I really want it for.

Buy it so SM can hire someone to come up with a decent marketing strategy.

...

Seriously, the background rendering is nice. I mainly bought it in the hope that the collada import would be useful for my project.

Collada import is free, with Daz Studio.
I'm a mid to high end user that Poser pro is supposedly aiming for.

I already have background rendering, HDRI rendering, 64 bit 3D and Network rendering, having invested in other mid to high end applications. With Collada being free, I also have the portability between Max and Poser solved. Portability between it and Cararra and Vue has been there for a while now.

I'm not knocking it down just for the sake of knocking it down. I'm looking at it as a potential buyer and a member of their target market, looking at the features and thinking, if people like me were their target market, they missed the mark.

Gimmie something I actually want, and don't already have!

What's up with Poser Pros rigging?  Has it changed?

Quote - What's up with Poser Pros rigging?  Has it changed?

I doubt it has strayed far (if at all) from the joint-rigging it's always had.

sigh... my kingdom for a proper joint-to-skeletal rig conversion that won't cost me $4k (or even $1k - yeah I'm a cheap bastard - sue me).

/P

Maybe next version...

Quote - *i think the idea of including low and medium res redistributable figures with poser pro is a very good one. my only gripe is that they look rushed and unprofessional.

Yep!  I agree!  I think those figures are a joke!  I mean us "indies" half to go through a mountain of crap with beta testing and everything to get our figures to market and here SM just spreads their cheeks and shits them out!  BTW they look like they were the base meshes that Don and Judy were developed from. 

If they were Don & Judy's base, that would explain why they have Faceroom support which was "OMG Too Expensive" to give to Koji 1!

*If they were Don & Judy's base, that would explain why they have Faceroom support which was "OMG Too Expensive" to give to Koji 1!

It's a racket...

Excellent work Helgard!

 I've been using Poser since version 4.  I have upgraded all the way to version 7.  This version is shit and I will not be upgrading.  The defenders of this version have their reasons but they do nothing for me.   It seems more like excuses and rationalizations for a overpriced lame upgrade to justify their purchases, than valid reasons for me to buy.

The new figures show how much Poser's new owners care for their old users.  Nothing.

It a nutshell, SM...  This sucks!

I wonder who will buy Poser next?

Is there anything left in Poser or is this the end?

Connie, the focus is to make it easier to get Poser content into professional apps. I mean, that's it in a really simplified manner. At least, that's how I see it. I don't pretend to speak for what the company's goal is with it, that's for the PR guys to get across. As a user, I'm really stoked about the normal mapping (true support for it), the render que, the improvements in speed and the ability to take my Poser work into XSI easily via Collada.  Would I have done a few things differently? Maybe but it is what is. Poser Pro, a version of Poser designed to work with pro apps more easily.  Is it for everyone? No. Should everyone rush out and buy it? If you think you can honestly benefit from what's included, then yes.  If you feel it's not worth it for whatever reason, then hang on to Poser 7 and do the upgrade when Poser 8 hits. I find Pro has things to offer me that Poser 7 couldn't. Things I may actually use. Just like with any "what program should I buy" question I get in the modeling forum - what I find worth using isn't always what the next person will. Only  you can decide.

I consider this a side grade.  I think I'll wait until P8

Quote - 'm more curious to know how many actually bought PP and what their experiences are. Mine has been very pleasant until now (got PP Base), except for one minor issue with texture paths.

I'll give you my opinion...

I am absolutely furious that they did not include 64bit versions of the Poserfusion plugins.

That they call it a "Pro" application and limit it in this way is beyond my comprehension.
PoserPro has been market as being all about getting your data into professional apps AND harnessing the poser of 64bit computing.

Now we find out these two features are basically INCOMPATABLE!!! You can either render in 64bits, OR get your data into other professional packages (in 32bit only)

I've posted this before elswhere - and I'm sorry for the double post - but I've been waiting over a year for Reiss to fulfill their "any day now" promise of 64bit compatibility.

The companies goal is to get your wallet to open up and spill into their coffers. Nothing more nothing less.

Quote -

I'll give you my opinion...

I am absolutely furious that they did not include 64bit versions of the Poserfusion plugins.

That they call it a "Pro" application and limit it in this way is beyond my comprehension.
PoserPro has been market as being all about getting your data into professional apps AND harnessing the poser of 64bit computing.

Now we find out these two features are basically INCOMPATABLE!!! You can either render in 64bits, OR get your data into other professional packages (in 32bit only)

I've posted this before elswhere - and I'm sorry for the double post - but I've been waiting over a year for Reiss to fulfill their "any day now" promise of 64bit compatibility.

Excuse my ignorance on higher end applications but which of those other applications are currently 64 bit?

My initial thought was that it is pointless to have a 64 bit plugin if the program you are exporting to is only 32 bit....

Quote - Excuse my ignorance on higher end applications but which of those other applications are currently 64 bit?

**All of them. ** This is a pretty bad gaffe, looking at it completely objectively.
ps: it's not even a surprise to EF support, I know they were well aware of this when I contacted them about BodyStudio and 64-bit (i.e., it wouldn't install at all in XP64 and broke my 3ds Max install).  They knew about this well in advance, I can't have been the only one that brought this to their attention.

If this has been addressed in the prior pages, please forgive....

PP Collada export....can you export an animation? If so, does it bake Poser cloth sim and export that as well? I expect the answer to dynamic hair is 'no it does not export with collada' but I am asking just in case. What about comforming hair, will that export under collada baked as geometry and animated?

My assumption is that a Collada animation export is a folder of .obj files, one for each frame.

I am thinking about Modo impoft for render.
http://forums.luxology.com/discussion/topic.aspx?id=15878

::::: Opera :::::

Conforming clothing and hair export. Animation will export to certain applications (see the matrix at poserpro.net). 

Thanks for all those who answered by question.  It's really a moot point with me, I'm more interested in using pre made content, I know I have no talent for modeling.  For me, the $200 is too steep for many features I can't or won't use.  The performance enhancements should follow through to patches or at least Poser 8.  I don't run a 64 bit OS, so that's little help to me.  I'm a hobbiest, no I'm not this products target market.  I guess it remains me to see how much mileage the real graphic professionals can get out of this. 

I'm a little dissapointed at SM website, it offers little information about the products or at least not enough for my tastes.  I hope they can improve upon it.

Finnally had time to read this whole thread. A bit confusing if it is a P7Pro thread or a new figure and DS pimp thread.

Same few non-owners of PP still ripping it as in every PP thread here. Not counting BH, I can see and agree with some of his points but to judge the whole apps future or lack of over a couple of figures is a bit silly. Also as pointed out a few times, all the content is there if you want to DL it.

It is a great update for P6 users, $150 is nothing for it. I think P6 users would be a bit foolish not to take advantage of the sale. For P7 users not so much but still a good upgrade for $150. Very stable right out of the box. It all depends on you.

I can't use P7 now after using PP. PP is just smoother to work with, faster in many things, bit better renders. I like being able to do something else when it is rendering and I like the fact that I have not had one crash since I bought it. I can't do more than 4or 5 renders in P7 before that friggin desktop crash.

I'm sorry, but PP has been a pleasure to use. I'm sure I'll even find a use for those figures. It works great with my Vue6I and my main app these days, Modo302. It has been worth the upgrade for me.