I don't know if that helps - but I have used a totally different runtime for everything, prop and python. Maybe the prop and the script need to be in the same runtime?

By the way, with the "forrest lights" tuned down a bit, here is Rikishi with the new shader (beard zones added). Looks great to me.

Robby -
You are running an old buggy version of Poser 6.

You need to install the latest service release.

I know this because your Poser doesn't know about material external names (ExtName). BastBlack had the same issue. After installing the SR, all was well.

Quote - I don't know if that helps - but I have used a totally different runtime for everything, prop and python. Maybe the prop and the script need to be in the same runtime?

By the way, with the "forrest lights" tuned down a bit, here is Rikishi with the new shader (beard zones added). Looks great to me.

Turn the lights down way more.

Not supposed to be bright sunshine, true. I had rendered that picture on my second computer, with a comparable dark monitor. On my TFT, it was much brighter.

Here is another Rikishi, IBL on 30% intensity, main light on 35%.

Probably still too bright. Here is a full body shot, I will turn down the lights further.

i am doing some test renders now. i still can not belive this. it renders faster the nthe apollo shader and it looks better.

Once again I gotta say, thanks, bagginsbill, for your work. You always seem to make Poser more and more exciting. take care jdc

Quote - LOL

I thought I mentioned this before.

When I released AMUCFS I accidentally disconnected the AO on the skin because I was getting artifacts and trying to debug it. I forgot that I never reconnected.

There IS NO AO IN ANY AMUCFS SKIN.

LOL sorry

P6 sucks. Its what I was using when I did AMUCFS - I guess I gave up on the AO.

 

Well a few artifacts is fine like I said especially for skin this amazing. It gels so well with your lights too. While they may be overlight for non VSS there perfect with it. I did some test without AO and spots or no spots it makes quite a bit of difference in realism.  Anyway looks like a good excuse to upgrade to poserpro. I need a new pc first though. Im long over due for a new one.
Cheers
JB

After two hours of fiddling today with right light and right bump and right displacement I came up with this - straight P7 render of my Jaymie for James P6 - doesn't he look incredible? Too bad I can't show all his goodies here - only at 'rotica, but what I wanted to say, thanks, bagginsbill for that VSS. Made my day. :)

Another test of stock Poser to ROCK poser :) lovin' it take care

I had to try. This is my unfinished Antonia figure. No texture, just plain VSS with slightly altered AO node to please Poser 6. Three infinite and one IBL light.

odf: is this VSS version 2?

ice-boy: Yep, version 2.

I've been tinkering around with my character as well as VSS the past few days... I've been trying different lighting from different packages and getting the following results. The picture attached to this post illustrates the results I've been getting. The lower lid problem I seem to have with every single light, even ones that come with VSS. :( I'm not sure if it's a material setting or light setting causing this. I've set up all I need to (shadow, raytracing) and have tried different options, and still get these results with most if not all of them.

I did the suggested tweaks around his eyes and nose as you suggested BagginsBill, but I notice the morphs almost seem very light dependant. What looks noticible with the default Poser light (I like to use that when I'm working on details so I can really see how it will looks), gets washed away by some lighting. Even the chiseling I did on the nose. I'm guessing it's a trick of trying to impliment more shadowing into the lighting. I guess I'll end up either trying more shadowing or back to making more morphs LOL :(

Thanks,
--R.

I've been tinkering around with my character as well as VSS the past few days... I've been trying different lighting from different packages and getting the following results. The picture attached to this post illustrates the results I've been getting. The lower lid problem I seem to have with every single light, even ones that come with VSS. :( I'm not sure if it's a material setting or light setting causing this. I've set up all I need to (shadow, raytracing) and have tried different options, and still get these results with most if not all of them.

I did the suggested tweaks around his eyes and nose as you suggested BagginsBill, but I notice the morphs almost seem very light dependant. What looks noticible with the default Poser light (I like to use that when I'm working on details so I can really see how it will looks), gets washed away by some lighting. Even the chiseling I did on the nose. I'm guessing it's a trick of trying to impliment more shadowing into the lighting. I guess I'll end up either trying more shadowing or back to making more morphs LOL :(

Thanks,
--R.

Hey hey - been busy doing real work - sorry for no updates. Cool pictures - thanks all.

Vince - rules are not case sensitive.

RnRWoman - what zone is the edge of the eyelid - I probably don't have a rule for it. Which means VSS didn't replace the shader there.

Regarding the eyebrows turning gray - that's probably because of specular effects being applied to the "skin" - which happens to not be skin but hair! This is why texture sets really should have specular maps. If that was skin, it should be showing a highlight. But not hair.

I tried to connect the texture map to the specular if there is no specular map, but maybe I made a mistake.

What did VSS plug into the face shader Blinn node there?

Quote - Now i look at the other figures, it may be too long to post in this thread, as i don't want to hack it ^^

I sent you a sitemail Bill about that :)

Vince -

Maybe I should NOT be using the material zone "external" names, since they seem to change. I didn't know that figures have language-sensitive material zone names. Is this a feature of some figures, or all? Of course I run English Poser, so I don't run into this.

I chose to use the external names because as far as I can tell, users cannot see the internal names.

You could, of course, make your own French name rules. But I think I should try internal names, even though it may cause confusion for people. Or - maybe I should try external AND internal name - use the internal name if the external name has no rule. That makes sense, no?

Quote -
RnRWoman - what zone is the edge of the eyelid - I probably don't have a rule for it. Which means VSS didn't replace the shader there.

I believe the edge of the eyelids must be using "EyeSocket," as I can't find anything else that looks like it pertains to it or would be even close to it.

Quote - Regarding the eyebrows turning gray - that's probably because of specular effects being applied to the "skin" - which happens to not be skin but hair! This is why texture sets really should have specular maps. If that was skin, it should be showing a highlight. But not hair.

Yeah, that's what I thought, that it had to do with how the light is bouncing off of it. It looks cool in some lighting, but gets the grey effect in others.

Quote - I tried to connect the texture map to the specular if there is no specular map, but maybe I made a mistake.

I have a specular map to a texture for V3 (I'm using David so he can accept maps from V3 and M3) so I'm wondering if it'll work for my character here. I've tried to plug it in to various places, but I admit I have no idea what I'm doing with it LOL!

--R.

Bill -

French Poser tends to translate everything it can. It must have a base or something to refer to, but sometimes it's very weird Oo
For instance, it doesn't translate at all V4 material zones, because they are like '4_facesomething'. the number and '_' prevent it to do that.  Poser only translates simple words.
It even translates body parts names. When i rig something, i have to go through my cr2 afterwards to put it back in english! Once one of my tester asked me what was the 'Main Droite' bone that appeared on my clothing in his english Poser!
They really did a crappy work with the local versions :(

You should ask to someone who owns the german version too.
And i know Basil has some extra work to make his scripts german and french versions compatible because of that. You may drop him a line about that :)

RnRWoman -

A V3 specular map won't fit as the specular won't be at the right places. The eyebrows shape is surely not the same for both textures.

Quote - RnRWoman -

A V3 specular map won't fit as the specular won't be at the right places. The eyebrows shape is surely not the same for both textures.

Ah, okay. Thank you, Vince. :)

--R.

You could make a try though by using your bump map as a specular map. It won't be as accurate as a specular map, but it could worth the try :)

edit:

Don't forget to invert it. The dark area won't show the specular, and the white ones will drive it. So the brows must be black ^^

Quote - You could make a try though by using your bump map as a specular map. It won't be as accurate as a specular map, but it could worth the try :)

edit:

Don't forget to invert it. The dark area won't show the specular, and the white ones will drive it. So the brows must be black ^^

Vince: Wow, cool! That's a good idea! I'll have to try that. Thanks for the advice and tips!

BagginsBill: I tried to add a "eyesocket" node, but it keeps saying it can't find it so it will ignore it, or something to that effect. So his lower lid still looks funny. :(

--R.

Umm - is it too much trouble to tell me exactly what it said?

Did it say this?

No rule matches zone EyeSocket - skipping.

If so, what did you put into the Rule node for the name? Did you put in eyesocket? Did you connect that rule to a Copy node? You should connect the rule to one of the templates. Otherwise even though it matches, it doesn't say to do anything.

There is little bug in VSS. It should give you a different message if the rule did match but didn't point to a Copy node. It should have said:

Zone EyeSocket matches empty rule - skipping.

No LOL. I just thought I'd sum up what I saw.... I'm sorry if this caused aggrivation. Please give me a little patience here, as I'm not as techie-minded. ;)  I'm not purposely trying to be lazy...  I knew I should've printed out the exact message as I know all too well this is a standard precedure for beta testing (and it's not like I'm inexperienced), but I was currently fiddling around with it and that would require reloading everything.

But, I have reloaded everything now so I could give you the proper error message:

Synchronizing Figure 1 from VSS_1
Synchronizing nodes from Template Skin to SkinTorso
Synchronizing nodes from Template Skin to Nipples
Synchronizing nodes from Template InnerMouth to InnerMouth
Synchronizing nodes from Template Skin to SkinArm
Synchronizing nodes from Template Skin to SkinHead
Synchronizing nodes from Template Skin to Fingernails
Synchronizing nodes from Template Skin to Toenails
Synchronizing nodes from Template Skin to Preview
Synchronizing nodes from Template Skin to SkinHand
Synchronizing nodes from Template Cornea to LCornea
Synchronizing nodes from Template Skin to SkinNeck
Synchronizing nodes from Template Pupil to LPupil
Synchronizing nodes from Template Skin to SkinForearm
Synchronizing nodes from Template Pupil to RPupil
Synchronizing nodes from Template Eyewhite to REyewhite
Synchronizing nodes from Template Lash to Eyelashes
Synchronizing nodes from Template Skin to Nostrils
Synchronizing nodes from Template InnerMouth to Gums
Synchronizing nodes from Template Iris to LIris
Synchronizing nodes from Template Teeth to Teeth
Synchronizing nodes from Template InnerMouth to Tongue
Synchronizing nodes from Template Skin to SkinFeet
No rule matches zone EyeSocket - skipping.
Synchronizing nodes from Template Eyewhite to LEyewhite
Synchronizing nodes from Template Lash to Eyebrows
Synchronizing nodes from Template Cornea to RCornea
Synchronizing nodes from Template Eyewhite to Lacrimal
Synchronizing nodes from Template Skin to SkinLeg
Synchronizing nodes from Template Skin to Lips
Synchronizing nodes from Template Skin to SkinScalp
No rule matches zone PubicHair - skipping.
Synchronizing nodes from Template Skin to SkinHip
Synchronizing nodes from Template Iris to RIris

The next time you run synchronize, if the message is the same
as this one, I won't bother printing it.

I put in EyeSocket, yes. However I didn't connect the rule to copy node. I'll try that.

EDIT
I've tried adding the eyesocket rule, then a copy node and it still gives me the "No rule matches zone EyeSocket - skipping." error.

Thanks,
--R.

Thanks - so i bet it works if you connect the rule to Copy Template Skin. Or - not sure what is desirable, maybe you want it shiny/wet so copy from Template Eyewhite?

Should I add another button: "What was that last message?" LOL

You're welcome. Nope. :( I've tried adding a rule, then using the copy. And vise versa and it still ignores it. I'm probably doing something wrong. Yeah, Eyewhite sounds good for the shine.

Yeah, that would be a good idea. Otherwise you have to load the whole thing over again to find it LOL. :P

--R.

Okay, I got it to work. But I had to type it in, as picking it from the drop down list did not work. Now the lower lid looks normal. I used eyewhites as the template to hook it up too. Thanks for the help :)

--R.

Hello bagginsbill. I was wondering,... Is there a node to control the level of colour saturation in your skin shader? thanks jdc

jd:

I almost always include an HSV node in every shader I've ever produced. But, I've observed it to be a significant slowdown. Remember ice-boy noting that this shader is sooo much faster than my AMUCFS shader? Part of that is because I stripped out all the non-essential stuff to make it faster - and HSV got the boot!

You can easily add an HSV node into the skin shader. However, let's try something simpler first. It may be that for the particular situation you've got, the SSS is just too strong, making it more reddish than you want. Try decreasing the SSS multiplier.

That would be arrow #1 in the screen shot below. The default value is .7. Making that a lower number will decrease the redness.

Are you using the PR2 prop? Remember that I had a blue tint to that one that actually makes the skin less saturated (because it is starting off with too much red.) The above screenshot is of the PR1 skin shader. The PR2 doesn't have the blue tint.  Jessi's texture is very very red. Try putting that blue tint back  (Arrow #3)

If you find those adjustments are not sufficient, or perhaps not friendly, I can add in the HSV as an optional skin shader which you can load at your desire.

Everybody should realize, too, that this is preview release stuff - I have not yet added in all the parameter knobs. When I get this finished, you won't ever have to go into the shader nodes. You can just spin knobs on the figure's parameters to adjust these various shader characteristics.

Have you played with Parmatic ever? Parmatic was a plugin I put out a long time ago that allows shader parameters for dozens of zones to be controlled by a single dial on the figure.

Parmatic will be merged into VSS, so that dial technology will be available to configure VSS shaders. You'll be able to put the dials on your VSS prop OR on the figure. That way you can have per-figure parameters, but not have to change them in all the zones.

Yup, I'm using the PR2 prop. Thanks for your help - seems to work. take care

 Stumbling around trying to figure this all out, but on several V4 texture sets including the Daz med resolution using the PR2 prop and some not to fancy light sets I made myself with PPro no Gamma correction with render settings cranked really high (texture filtering off, shader rate on all materials down to .01 via a script, ray traced shadows) and all I can say is WOW! The skin-face close ups are killer. All done quickly and easily with a few mouse clicks. Unbelievable!

bagginsbill

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2738989&page=2

Quote -  Stumbling around trying to figure this all out, but on several V4 texture sets including the Daz med resolution using the PR2 prop and some not to fancy light sets I made myself with PPro no Gamma correction with render settings cranked really high (texture filtering off, shader rate on all materials down to .01 via a script, ray traced shadows) and all I can say is WOW! The skin-face close ups are killer. All done quickly and easily with a few mouse clicks. Unbelievable!

Great! Where is your test render? Share!

Quote -

Great! Where is your test render? Share!

In a folder on my computer at home :biggrin:

Me still messing around in PPro with various settings. When I get home I might get enough guts to post something. 

Couple of questions to the testers: Are you applying VSS before you clothes your figure?
I see for example if I do it afterwards, necklace or the popular MFD dress has names like neckline and they get trapped up in  the neck rule.

Using the VSSPR2Test prop, I didn't like how it changed the shaders applied to fingernails. So I assume the safest bet was to just disconnect that node from the template skin, vs making a new copy fingernail. If that was the wrong thing to do I am sure their are others who would appreciate an answer if it was.

Same can happen to lips on females that have lipstick. Most of the render shared in this thread don't have lipstick. Renders cooking in background. As soon as I have a pair off I will post a comparison.

Bil it would appear that people are going to generate different props with different rule sets. Going back to the top. If you selected just the figure of the character and VSS was only applied to that, instead of other figures conformed to that figure then the necklace, MFD zone naming issues would not be an issue.

Heya grichter,

I too had a similar problem when I first loaded VSS onto the figure. I had a bodysuit (for bodyhair) conformed to the original figure and it tried to apply VSS to that too. So for now, I load it on the figure before I conform anything else to it. It doesn't seem to effect most props that I've noticed.

I'm guessing that the lipstick issue has to do with how the bump map is set up originally on the figure? Does it look like the bump is too strong or does it do something else?

--R.

OK sticking with Bill's desire of the Freebee of point and shoot or click and render...

Going to post a series of images. Never posted an image to the forum before, so if they are too small or too big...rookie mistake sorry.

SydneyG2, morphs and textures by Freja found at CP (FR-Mimiko G2S). PoserPro Mac OSX10.5.2 (FYI have not had any issues with  version1  in either P7 or PPro on my mac relative to the scripts running, buttons working)  Rendering settings all highend. Smooth and use displacement on. It's the displacement that is causing the issues BTW or at least what I see. Have not gone back and studied Bill's image with numbers and the resulting explanation to solve the skin issue. Sticking with the concept of point and shoot of the freebee, vs edit to a point. The examples show what happens when you disconnect the node to the lips. Which does the same with the fingernails when color or polish is applied

Edited to add used the supplied Indoor lights 2 as they came, not changes other then rotating the character to the right about 15 to 30 degrees

First image up as it came from the PA, no VSS applied.

Now VSS Generic, notice how the  lip color changes

Now VSS Generic with the lip node disconnected in the skin template. Notice in the second image to this one the color of the lips is washed out.

Finally again using pure point and shoot and  the PRC prop with the lip node detached. (FYI if you simply turn down the displacement amount streaks on the cheeks go away. Time to study Bill Image with numbers I think)

And finally a rules technical question. The Body wild card that catches BodyHandle or Hand that catches Handle, HandleM, HandleF, etc, etc,  in cloth for example...is there a running order in which these occur? Meaning if I created a wildcard rule handle, how can I get it to happen in order so that the Body or Hand doesn't overwrite that rule as the script moves down from line to line? Does it matter where they are in order as to what happens? Or is because Handle is a closer match to the target word vs Hand lets say the create rule takes a higher priority?

> Quote - Couple of questions to the testers: Are you applying VSS before you clothes your figure? > I see for example if I do it afterwards, necklace or the popular MFD dress has names like neckline and they get trapped up in  the *neck* rule. > > Using the VSSPR2Test prop, I didn't like how it changed the shaders applied to fingernails. So I assume the safest bet was to just disconnect that node from the template skin, vs making a new copy fingernail. If that was the wrong thing to do I am sure their are others who would appreciate an answer if it was. > > Same can happen to lips on females that have lipstick. Most of the render shared in this thread don't have lipstick. Renders cooking in background. As soon as I have a pair off I will post a comparison. > > > Bil it would appear that people are going to generate different props with different rule sets. Going back to the top. If you selected just the figure of the character and VSS was only applied to that, instead of other figures conformed to that figure then the necklace, MFD zone naming issues would not be an issue.

First of all, if you do NOT want it to apply VSS to just any figure (particularly clothing, etc.) you should edit the "Apply Rules" material zone. Delete the Rule because that is the generic rule to match any figure.

Insert a rule with the name of your figure (or wildcard name, for example Apollo*). I discussed this in an earlier post I believe.

For special handling of nails and lips, you have two choices:

1. Disconnect the rules that match those zones so the copy nothing.
2. Create new Template zones, add new Copy nodes for those templates to the "Shader Rules" material, and then hook the desired rules to those templates.

Of course I'll be doing the latter in the final VSS prop - but I haven't had time to set all that up.

When you have distinct material templates and additional rules matching those, you can have different materials for different zones. In the Preview Release props I'm just making it easy to do the generic stuff.

You can also make separate VSS props to configure shaders for clothing, jewelry, etc. You don't have to have just one VSS prop. Again, this is just Preview Release - you have to do some additional work to get more complicated things going.

Right now, I'm building my entry for the Poser Challenge involving primitives. I'm building a house out of primitives. So far I have over 200 boxes and over a dozen one-sided squares. The VSS prop I'm making to speed up the work has templates for clapboard, trim, glass, grass, curtains, shades, etc. VSS has nothing to do with figures, per se. You can set up rules to manage all kinds of materials and distribute them throughout your scene consistently. So using it, when I change the color or shading on the clapboards, it copies that to the 145 boxes automatically.

My WIP image is attached. Rendering in Poser 7 with HDRI lighting.

Quote - And finally a rules technical question. The Body wild card that catches BodyHandle or Hand that catches Handle, HandleM, HandleF, etc, etc,  in cloth for example...is there a running order in which these occur? Meaning if I created a wildcard rule handle, how can I get it to happen in order so that the Body or Hand doesn't overwrite that rule as the script moves down from line to line? Does it matter where they are in order as to what happens? Or is because Handle is a closer match to the target word vs Hand lets say the create rule takes a higher priority?

I discussed this earlier - please read for more detail. But, basically the longest rule name wins.

So if you have a "BodyHandle" material zone, given rules for hand, body, or handle, handle wins.

Poser still doesn't handle displacement, smoothing, and raytracing too well. The artifacts you're getting on the face could be AO artifacts, or they could be light/shadow artifacts.

Generally, to fix them, increase bias or raybias until they go away.

Quote -
Right now, I'm building my entry for the Poser Challenge involving primitives. I'm building a house out of primitives. So far I have over 200 boxes and over a dozen one-sided squares. The VSS prop I'm making to speed up the work has templates for clapboard, trim, glass, grass, curtains, shades, etc. VSS has nothing to do with figures, per se. You can set up rules to manage all kinds of materials and distribute them throughout your scene consistently. So using it, when I change the color or shading on the clapboards, it copies that to the 145 boxes automatically.

My WIP image is attached. Rendering in Poser 7 with HDRI lighting.

BB, Good luck with the primitive contest. You WIP looks good so far.

Something you might be interested in to see what can be done with primitives is here: market.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php and here: market.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php. This is a project I worked on for a long time but, unfortuniately, I can't enter those now, been in the gallery for awhile. Most everything was done with primitives except the flag, car, tractor, and background.

Oh, and by the way, I love the VSS shader.

Thanks Cherokee.

I saw your renders before - they're really great.

I just submitted mine.  I used about 470 primitives. Almost all are boxes.

Good luck. Have not been following the contest , but do idiots like me get to vote on them?

Cause I assume one of the pre-condition of dl'ing VSS determines which one I vote for :)

FYI I made a bunch of materials for Template skin. Lowering the diffuse reflectivity or number 6 in the reference image to .4 makes the skin a little muddy looking. However I like some tests I have done at as high 1.0. Personal preference, I am not a fan adding blue to the skin tint, unless I want the character to look more pale (less red). rgb 188,218,218 or default. Granted I am weird and made a simple chart with various rgb values changing in levels of 4 point changes and then been rendering up a storm so I have reference images of what each change does.

Question: How big is your sense of humor Bill?

Huge. And subtle. :)

How do you add a material AO node? There's a Math Function attached to the Diffuse_value slot typically where you'd put the AO shader.

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