Fight?

Ooo-kay -- barkeep, time to cut this one off!!!

BTW: I'll be watching the progress on that low-rider. That is one very sweet machine.

The grass is always greener someplace else thread. You got bored and burned out and think your quiting for good. Then your working doing something else and this idea for a great render hits you.

I remember about 4 or 5 years ago I tried to give up Poser because I was frustrated with it. That only lasted a week or so

Quote - *quote: I modeled a few non-female non sex orientd pieces, and they get neglected - as freebies or as sale items.

Girly stuff gets a lot more attention, and means more sales for merchants.

I've wrestled with this same thing for all of the years I've been a vendor here too. You'd love to have a much more diversified product line but the customer base drives the marketplace and it's the 'girly' stuff that sells. I hold out for as long as I can with my products and then have to give in to the 'girly' stuff to get the sales I need. It's very frustrating but I don't know what else to do about it. I'd love to make more stuff for the male characters but you know going in that it's not going to make you much money.

I completely understands Sean's complaint though and fully empathize with it. The same thing could be said about the Poser gallery too. With all the emphasis on female-centric images there is a similar drain of creative energy.

• Rick

Yeap yeap.
I thought I'd add, when I want non girly content for 3D (I'm not exclusively poserite) I go to other sites. Cg society to learn high end tricks and see what super creatives are up to, 3D total for vrious things, CG Arcitect for my achh Viz research, zbrush central to see less sexually oriented body studies with more artistic quality and craftsmanship to them etc...

It would be nice to see fewer pinups and more other type of stuff, for the sake of artistic variety, but I understand that's not going to happen. So, like I said, for other things I go elsewhere.

Quote - all merchandizing and making sure almost everything merchandized revolves around the Showgirl. And it just gets tedious and boring and repetitive -- for me and probably just for me. So rather than whine about things I know will never change, ....

The remedy to that is not putting all your eggs in one basket. None of us are married to Poser or renderosity (even if some act like they are)

And here I was, thinking about doing a NVIATWAS render, now I've changed my mind.
Hold on, there's bound to be some new sexy/fantasy outfit in the MP to inspire me again. I may even render it in Poser with standard lights & pose. It doesn't matter what the qualities like so long as there's a bit of flesh showing. That's sure to get alot of views!

didn't we used to have a wishlist area? I mean, what would you like to see? Don't be a stranger or anything, but come and go as you like...;)

as an invertebrate modeler (I have no backbone...;), I can tell from long experience that a picture by itself, with only a model in it, doesn't get much attention (unless you're Moebius or something...;).

So you stick purdy girls in because that's the only way that you can get people to pay attention. Sad, but true. I'm always on the lookout for something that doesn't only appropriate wrapped around a brass pole...sometimes I find things, then wind up overusing...;)

it sounds like you have some good ideas for different things to model and create. Share them with us, and maybe something can be made.

Hey Sean

*BTW: I'll be watching the progress on that low-rider. That is one very sweet machine.

*Pm me if you'd like a copy.

One of the problems I see is that all the unique stuff usually goes into the clearance section here at Renderosity , because of lack of sales and eventually is deleted forever.  It's hard to make different looking scenes when all the different props, etc. are deleted.

Quote - One of the problems I see is that all the unique stuff usually goes into the clearance section here at Renderosity , because of lack of sales and eventually is deleted forever.  It's hard to make different looking scenes when all the different props, etc. are deleted.

Exactly right. 

*One of the problems I see is that all the unique stuff usually goes into the clearance section here at Renderosity , because of lack of sales and eventually is deleted forever.  It's hard to make different looking scenes when all the different props, etc. are deleted.

*Well,  when things don't sell,  like they think they should,  got to toss it into the bin...got to make room for the half a jillion erotosuits, you know. 

Quote - One of the problems I see is that all the unique stuff usually goes into the clearance section here at Renderosity , because of lack of sales and eventually is deleted forever.  It's hard to make different looking scenes when all the different props, etc. are deleted.

This seems to be one of the prime reasons many artists  sell off of their own sites too

 I just went to the Poser galleries and looked at the most viewed of all time.  Something to really be proud of I'd say. 

Quote - > Quote - Well I for one will miss Sean around here. I've had a boy crush on these two guy figures of his for I don't know how long!

Well, FWIW, they've been saying some very interesting things about you as well.... :)

Hrmmm... "Interesting" can be good or bad. I'm not certain whether or not  I should be flattered or afraid!

Quote - Take the fight outside, you two.  Someones beer might get spilt and if it's mine I'll be pissed.

Tip's over Pat's beer on his way out..... :tt2:

*Tip's over Pat's beer on his way out.....

I knew It!  I knew one of you would!  Towel on table 3 please.

Quote - didn't we used to have a wishlist area? I mean, what would you like to see?

That is a lesson in futility  I see so many request for things other than girly crap that go completely ignored or maybe the challenge to create these requests are just too difficult as they require too much clothing?  So my question is this if everyone wants girly crap then why are so many people requesting  real world items, historical items and things if this nature? I agree with Sean on many points I too do not understand why, for example, a so called firefighter outfit is released one week followed by another? This seems to be the theme over the last year a cloning effect. How many things of the same thing can we get?

All I have to say is this merchants can go and release all the same old girly and same old fantasy stuff they care to create I will not be buying it. The last things I bought was a great SUV model and a skin from Morris over at Daz.  I also model what I can't find but I am no great modeler and what I do model, so it would be to the so called masses, would be boring.

I can understand Sean's frustration as he isn't the only one.

(Long drag on beer soaked cigar)  Boycott!  If the market isn't providing you with what you need for your artwork,  then boycott it. 

CGSociety doesn't focus on things like beautiful women -- or perhaps they're just better at it than most.

I gotta admit -- I'm impressed.

http://features-temp.cgsociety.org/gallerycrits/199846/199846_1209098911_large.jpg

Of course, they totally ignore the 'female element' over there -- and they care nothing for the fantasy / scifi angle, either:

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=121&t=533839

You'll never see pin-ups over there:

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=121&t=532817

I......think that I'm getting the hang of this CGSociety thing (great pic!):

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=121&t=503445

No Victoria's with swords standing around here!!!!!! (another great pic -- there's no denying the superb quality -- I wouldn't want to):

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=121&t=483814

Ah, well -- there's no point in denying it -- "plain and ordinary" rules the day -- and with no boring fantasy elements thrown in to ruin the galleries:

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=121&t=466403

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=121&t=450726

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=121&t=422145

I need to go sign up with CGSociety......so that I can better learn to properly appreciate the everyday:

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=121&t=399499

If you've got it, flaunt it -- or so I've heard:

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=121&t=343797

No V4's dressed in revealing clothing here!!!!!!!:

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=121&t=311131

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=121&t=224737

There's other stuff there, too........but I'm trying to avoid having to tap the 'nudity' tag in this post.

No doubt about it: those people know what they're doing.  The level of professionalism and talent is undeniable.  As for subject matter.......they cover......or rather they uncover........the same sorts of topics that are likely to be seen elsewhere -- in other 3D galleries.

I suppose that it's all a matter of perception.  I suggest a boycott..........

I just gotta throw this one in:

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=121&t=184957

Back to learning Modo, I suppose --

CG is mainly about fantasy and science fiction. If you want pictures of the mundane you could buy a camera. The difference between CG society and Renderosity has more to do with quality than kind. (Kinda like a car dealer versus a car toy dealer.) I'm not thrilled with much of what passes through the Renderosity marketplace, but I wouldn't dream of leaving because of it. (There are plenty of better reasons not to hang out and waste a lot of time in Poser forums.)

Quote - (There are plenty of better reasons not to hang out and waste a lot of time in Poser forums.)

Yes -- I agree.  Wasting time in forums is a bad idea.

>> I suppose that it's all a matter of perception.

Indeed it is.

You have yours.

I have mine -- and as I have said several times over and over and over, I take full responsibility for that position.

But mine comes from almost a decade's involvement with this program and its change from a truly community-driven user base to merchants who flock to DAZ to see what they're supposed to work from next, which has resulted in a narrower and narrower culture. One page of gallery thumbs doesnt change what the full gallery itself truly is, sorry, just as few screen grabs of the current offerings at DAZ doesnt alter the fact that the overwhelming majority of items offered there are all purposely designed around the Showgirl and her... ahem... assets. And, as I've said repeatedly, that's fine, if that's what you want. I dont, which makes me sort of the unwanted guest at this all-DAZ-all-the-time-hosted party,

And I dont think anyone's ever said that places like CGTalk are any panacea here. I dont consider CGTalk to be anything more than a forum for CG students and wannabes, not professionals. It's like "Ads of the World", a forum that purports to host discussion on print media fand is frequented to an overwhelming degree by art school kids trying to look oh so impressive. But saying CG is a slam-dunk dispute of my argument... well, that's not my point, that's yours. Mine (and I repeat: mine and mine alone) is that, with the direction this package has gone, I'm not sure I no longer care about Poser's future development.  I dont care about the incessant, cookie-cutter textures and morphs for V4.x, because I personally find the mesh itself a bloated waste of virtual space, awkward to work with, poorly designed and overhyped. The A4 morph they carved out of it is freakishly ugly, IMHO*,* and the male morphs are two steps shy of an embarassment. It is thanks, as usual, to the users to make anything barely tolerable out of the mess thrown our way.

And yet this is the mesh our universe now revolves around because there's seemingly no alternative -- well, there is, of course, but because we want our images pretty right out of the box instead of putting the work into them to make them look pretty, we'll discard everything but the Showgirl, an action that IMHO has hobbled the development of this program irrevocably. As much as I applaud the work of folks like Patorak, the harsh reality is that chances are very good it wont find support in the community and will ultimately disappear. We've seen it happen several times over the years. I wish him well with his Plain Jane project, but, history being history, I'm not optimistic about it. It will wind up a niche, crushed under the relentless Vickie bandwagon... because Vickie is clearly and obviously what the Poser community wants. And that's fine -- it's just not for me. Never has been, never will be... particularly with the direction it's headed right now.

So no, I'm not abandoning Poser: I'll probably still be using it long after it's disappeared from the marketplace from lack of support (or been absorbed into the Microsoft that is DAZ). But at the same time... well, never mind -- the point's been made.

And no, I dont see the situation changing. Water will not be running uphill anytime soon in the Poserverse. I accepted that too a very long time ago. But that doesnt alter the fact that it's a pretty sad state of affairs.

Finally, thanks to the folks who have posted in this thread, both pro and con. You've certainly given me much to think about, and I appreciate that.

I don't think it's just poser I think it's slowing down everywhere even with the higher end programs.

*I don't think it's just poser I think it's slowing down everywhere even with the higher end programs.

(Finishing cigar)  Keep the faith bro'  this is just a cycle.  Things will turn around and be better than ever. 

Quote - >> I suppose that it's all a matter of perception.

Indeed it is.

You have yours.

I have mine -- and as I have said several times over and over and over, I take full responsibility for that position.

But mine comes from almost a decade's involvement with this program and its change from a truly community-driven user base to merchants who flock to DAZ to see what they're supposed to work from next, which has resulted in a narrower and narrower culture. One page of gallery thumbs doesnt change what the full gallery itself truly is, sorry, just as few screen grabs of the current offerings at DAZ doesnt alter the fact that the overwhelming majority of items offered there are all purposely designed around the Showgirl and her... ahem... assets. And, as I've said repeatedly, that's fine, if that's what you want. I dont, which makes me sort of the unwanted guest at this all-DAZ-all-the-time-hosted party,

And I dont think anyone's ever said that places like CGTalk are any panacea here. I dont consider CGTalk to be anything more than a forum for CG students and wannabes, not professionals. It's like "Ads of the World", a forum that purports to host discussion on print media fand is frequented to an overwhelming degree by art school kids trying to look oh so impressive. But saying CG is a slam-dunk dispute of my argument... well, that's not my point, that's yours. Mine (and I repeat: mine and mine alone) is that, with the direction this package has gone, I'm not sure I no longer care about Poser's future development.  I dont care about the incessant, cookie-cutter textures and morphs for V4.x, because I personally find the mesh itself a bloated waste of virtual space, awkward to work with, poorly designed and overhyped. The A4 morph they carved out of it is freakishly ugly, IMHO*,* and the male morphs are two steps shy of an embarassment. It is thanks, as usual, to the users to make anything barely tolerable out of the mess thrown our way.

And yet this is the mesh our universe now revolves around because there's seemingly no alternative -- well, there is, of course, but because we want our images pretty right out of the box instead of putting the work into them to make them look pretty, we'll discard everything but the Showgirl, an action that IMHO has hobbled the development of this program irrevocably. As much as I applaud the work of folks like Patorak, the harsh reality is that chances are very good it wont find support in the community and will ultimately disappear. We've seen it happen several times over the years. I wish him well with his Plain Jane project, but, history being history, I'm not optimistic about it. It will wind up a niche, crushed under the relentless Vickie bandwagon... because Vickie is clearly and obviously what the Poser community wants. And that's fine -- it's just not for me. Never has been, never will be... particularly with the direction it's headed right now.

So no, I'm not abandoning Poser: I'll probably still be using it long after it's disappeared from the marketplace from lack of support (or been absorbed into the Microsoft that is DAZ). But at the same time... well, never mind -- the point's been made.

And no, I dont see the situation changing. Water will not be running uphill anytime soon in the Poserverse. I accepted that too a very long time ago. But that doesnt alter the fact that it's a pretty sad state of affairs.

Finally, thanks to the folks who have posted in this thread, both pro and con. You've certainly given me much to think about, and I appreciate that.

Just a thought here, but the Poser Universe, much like any other universe, is susceptible to Newton's laws.  Objects in motion tend to stay in motion, objects at rest tend to stay at rest.

I think the reason that Vicky/Micheal figures sell so well is not so much a function of quality or "want" within the Poser Universe as it is a question of inertia.  Vendors create 3rd party products for Vicky and Mike because they believe that they will sell.

Consumers purchase new release of Vicky and Mike because they believe that third party products will be readily available for them, whereas other figures, regardless of quality, will probably not recieve that kind of third party support.

So it becomes a self feeding cycle, other figures have a difficult time breaking into the market, Vendors are not willing to risk spending time developing 3rd party add ons for new figures because they are uncertain they will sell, and consumers are unwilling to purchase new figures because they fear a lack of 3rd party vendor support.  The end result, new figures tend to die out pretty quickly as neither group is wiling to be the first to run the risk of "accepting" the new figure into the mainstream.

It's a lot more about marketing than it is about anything else.  However as the technology improves this will likely begin to change.  At the moment 3rd party Vendor support is crucial for many, because for the newbie or hobbiest purchasing/learning to use all the various programs you need to model/rig/create clothing and items of your own can be pretty daunting.

You have to be able to figure out how to export the figures from Poser, import them into a modeler for reference, use the modeler in quesiton, export from the modeler, import back into Poser, rig the new creation and have it work properly in Poser.

While this is old hat to a lot of us, from a newbie or hobbiest perspective if you've never done anything like that it can be a pretty overwhelming prospect.  There really isn't a single source tutorial on how to do this with most modeling applicaitons, and the applicatoins themselves really aren't integrated all that well.

So without 3rd party vendor support a new figure doesn't really have much of a chance to garner a real market share.  From the vendor's perspective they pretty much automatically assume a new figure that isn't Vicki or Mike will fail, and as a result most don't spend a lot of time creating products for them.

The funny thing is that most new figures die out quickly as a direct result of this "lack of faith" on the part of the vendors.  Even Daz products are not immune to this phenomena, I doubt they are are planning on releasing a David 4 because David 3 recieved such a lukewarm response from the marketplace.

Again I don't think this was so much a result of any shortcomings of the figure  when compared to M3, just a result of rather lukewarm support from 3rd party vendors, many of whom wanted to "wait and see" if D3 took off first, but of course there is no way D3 or any other figure can "take off" unless it has 3rd party support.

But I think things are changing - the technology is improving and 3d applications are becoming more and more able to exchange information in various formats without quite so much of the "hoop jumping" requirements.  Granted, still a long way to go here, but at least the process has started.

So further on down the line it might be possible to release a figure that might be much better recieved even without 3rd party support, as perhaps by that time 3rd party support won't be as crucial for as many in the community when it comes to which figures they wish to purchase.

But until then I'm afraid that any new figure, regardless of quality or features, is going to have a real uphill battle to make it.  All simply due to inertia.

The links you posted are indeed renders of "beautiful women." HOWEVER ... in Sean's defense, what those links show that MOST of the Poser renders DO NOT is individuality.

There is a lot of "sameness" in Poser renders, which is unfortunate.  Part of what made Poser a great tool for hobbiests is probably the very thing that makes it less appealing to the pros. It all looks the same.   Not enough people "un-Vicky Vicky" or "un-Michael Michael", or "un-Apollo Apollo."   Most buy a character pack, an outfit, companion textures, and then put it into a scene and render as is. And that contributes to the "sameness."

So ... I've attached here my best "un-Vicky Vicky" attempt. But with as much work as I put into it., it still doesn't anywhere near approach the quality of the images that you posted. And I also question whether or not it can truly be categorized as a Poser image, even though it was rendered in Poser and used a Poser figure (V4), a LOT of the work was done in other software like Cinema 4D and FaceGen for the custom morph.

If anyone else can show some other ORIGINAL* characters that were done in Poser and that approach the quality of art shown in the links Xeno posted, I'd love to see them here too.

Poser does have potential ... but not enough truly push it to its potential.

Excellent character Deecey!  The eyes are amazing.  I agree about the "sameness" issue,  That's why I'm giving plain Jane and her accessories to my friends.  Hopefully,  they'll be able to use her in their portfolios,  demo reels,  and commercial renders,  without having the daz look.  If you'd like a copy pm me here.  

Deecey - Superb work! Is it Scarlett johansson?

Yup, that it is! I started it with the intent of doing a digital version of the "Girl with a Pearl Earring" promo .. and haven't had time to do the clothing to finish it.  One of these days .... LOL

Yep.. I no longer even have a store here any longer, because all my stuff was moved to clearance, then then removed. Funny, I can be VERY successful at Daz and CP, but here I was shuffled off to no man's land.

Gareee - Were any of your products see-thru, sexy, fantasy outfits for Vicky?

Nope.. the sal adventurer set, evo girrl's morph set, and a few other "nitch" items.

They were buried by character and texture sets within days in the store here, and sales here were about 1/10th what they were at poser pros, so I never pursued releasing much else here after seeing dismal sales numbers, and being shuffled off the clearance land.

It's a shame it has to be this way, but I'm not surprised. I guess for what you create Gareee it's understandable you're at places like Daz where you have a better chance of your work selling.

Quote - > Quote - didn't we used to have a wishlist area? I mean, what would you like to see?

That is a lesson in futility  I see so many request for things other than girly crap that go completely ignored or maybe the challenge to create these requests are just too difficult as they require too much clothing?  So my question is this if everyone wants girly crap then why are so many people requesting  real world items, historical items and things if this nature? I agree with Sean on many points I too do not understand why, for example, a so called firefighter outfit is released one week followed by another? This seems to be the theme over the last year a cloning effect. How many things of the same thing can we get?

All I have to say is this merchants can go and release all the same old girly and same old fantasy stuff they care to create I will not be buying it. The last things I bought was a great SUV model and a skin from Morris over at Daz.  I also model what I can't find but I am no great modeler and what I do model, so it would be to the so called masses, would be boring.

I can understand Sean's frustration as he isn't the only one.

You can go have a look at a piece I have on market right now, it's a good quality piece of clothing for apollo maximus (a wizard robe). loaded with morphs and goodies, probably twice as much stuff as one gets in an average top selling piece. It took well over 200 hours of careful work to create.
It sold in less then 50 pieces (which I gather are pretty high sales for this type of a piece). At this rate, I'm not even up to making $2.00 per hour for the effort.

I can't continue to make pieces of genre that doesn't sell, or if I do, I have to make it a LOT simpler, lower quality to make it worth my while as a merchant.  At the moment, I'm not willing to dumb down the quality, so I've moved on to making pieces in the genre that has higher chances of getting noticed and being sold in couple hundred pieces or more - so maybe I can get all the way up to making a minimum wage with them. :rolleyes:

The trouble with Poser content is that Poser is an application oriented towards rendering and posing a human body... so in a way that's the direction it's users head.  You don't see nearly as much of the same phenomenon with Vue or Bryce or other software (unless they are Poser content imports)

As far as historic stuff, props, houses etc, I will probably look into selling at cornucopia. They're gettin better known, and are not flooded with demand for female nudes or close to nude character packs. I think quality props will have a better chance of getting noticed there.

Quote - Xeno ... nice links you posted there.

The links you posted are indeed renders of "beautiful women." HOWEVER ... in Sean's defense, what those links show that MOST of the Poser renders DO NOT is individuality.

There is a lot of "sameness" in Poser renders, which is unfortunate.  Part of what made Poser a great tool for hobbiests is probably the very thing that makes it less appealing to the pros. It all looks the same.   Not enough people "un-Vicky Vicky" or "un-Michael Michael", or "un-Apollo Apollo."   Most buy a character pack, an outfit, companion textures, and then put it into a scene and render as is. And that contributes to the "sameness."

So ... I've attached here my best "un-Vicky Vicky" attempt. But with as much work as I put into it., it still doesn't anywhere near approach the quality of the images that you posted. And I also question whether or not it can truly be categorized as a Poser image, even though it was rendered in Poser and used a Poser figure (V4), a LOT of the work was done in other software like Cinema 4D and FaceGen for the custom morph.

If anyone else can show some other ORIGINAL* characters that were done in Poser and that approach the quality of art shown in the links Xeno posted, I'd love to see them here too.

Poser does have potential ... but not enough truly push it to its potential.

Deecey, I agree with most of what you said... except, you don't give your attempt here enough credit ;)  It's beautiful, it definately has character and individuality. Wonderful work!!!!!!

*I'm currently working on a set of freebie railroad police textures for the Poserworld US Cop shirt. The attached image is my first one (Union Pacific). I'm going to call the set "Bullshirts" (a "bull" is hobo slang for a railroad cop)

Lookin' good!  Brings back high school memories of Conrail cops chasing us out of beer can beach!

Poser and DAZ Studio in and of themselves are not "bad" applications. The Poser figures that we commonly use in and of themselves are not "bad" models.

Now ... I'm just as prone to putting a scene together, playing with lighting, and pressing the Render button as anyone else ... it's relaxing, it's enjoyable, and it's fun, and when I don't have the time to do something really unique, I just put something together for the fun of it. 

I think what is "bad" in the community at large (and has been "bad" for a long time) is that there hasn't been enough encouragement or prodding to do something MORE with a product than using it "out of the box."  That's why I was kind of hoping that there would be more posts here of some really DIFFERENT looks for the standard characters that we typically use.

PS .. and thanks ConnieKat LOL

I want to start a little site for modelers that is just plain fun and not much into the "Sales" thing.  I purchased a domain name and hosting but have not got around to putting the site together yet. I like making things like this creature, but I doubt there will be much interest in it so a site like that would be a good place to put it. 

Well don't want to see you go but if it feels right to you then you must do it.

Quote - I
Lookin' good!  Brings back high school memories of Conrail cops chasing us out of beer can beach!

One of the RR's I plan on doing is Conrail.  Do you remember what colour their shirts were? I have the patches and badges, but I don't know what colour the shirts are

I'm all for difference and experimentation.  That's never been an issue with me.......in fact, I'd encourage it.

Where I feel that the discussion gets off-track is when people start making claims that the obsession with sexually-charged items and images is somehow a particularly localized phenomenon within the Poserverse -- when in reality it's a phenomenon that's pervasively exhibited across-the-board (even in highend "pro" CG galleries !) in today's culture.  Not too many years ago, this same sex-obsession was held up for praise as a newfound form of "freedom" -- an escape from the Victorian mores of a repressed past.  But now.....some people's attitudes seem to be swinging back the other way -- at least to a point, and with an odd PC twist to the pendulum swing.

Frankly, I'd have a lot less problems with the complaints if the complaints were deriving from a standpoint of pure moral issues, rather than from a standpoint of PC'ism.  Political Correctness attacking near-universal cultural sexual obsession is basically an example of one wrong-headed idea attacking another wrong-headed idea -- and for the wrong reasons.

If the truth were known -- I suspect that there are also other underlying motivations in play here......but I can't be certain that I'm right about that in particular cases, so I'll leave it lie.

The Poserverse is no more guilty of sex-obsession than standard television fare is -- or the movies, or PC games, or novels, or Broadway plays, or the DVD's at your local video store, or the magazine rack at your local grocery store, or........pretty much any other form of popular entertainment that you'd care to bring up.  It's everywhere --

.........so Poser is what you, as an individual, make of it.  What someone else chooses to do with the software program you can't........and you shouldn't have to.........answer for.  The Poserverse doesn't deserve any special condemnation -- beyond what the entire culture should be condemned for.

*Do you remember what colour their shirts were? I have the patches and badges, but I don't know what colour the shirts are

Bright white with brass buttons on the breast pockets.  Whistle in left breast pocket.

Hey Phantom3D

Welcome back!  Grab a seat,  I'll buy ya a beer.

Thanks, but it was really no big deal.. I hate to put all my eggs in one basket, and was exploring other possibilites, but Rendo just didn't fit well with me.. CP and Daz work out just fine though.. :)
 

Hey Gareee

Do you sell Lightwave versions of your models?

I've changed the looks of both standard and non-standard characters and only two of them have been DAZ figures. 99.9% of the freebies I released as MatrixWorkz were for the Poser/EF/CP figures. I think I did one dynamic hair style for M3 and some morphs for the DAZ Centaur. My favorite non-standard figure is still Ug!

Quote - Well here's something different. Not sexy, I don't think? 
 

Hey Phantom! That's a cool figure! Where can I find it?

Quote - Hey Phantom3D

Welcome back!  Grab a seat,  I'll buy ya a beer.

Thanks patorak, that would be great haven't been for a beer in ages. Good to be back.

LostinSpaceman:  It's just something I put together one day, it's not on the market or anything but maybe when I get things going I can put it up for download, still needs mapped too.

Well the wing's are really cool.