i just downloaded the vssPR1 from bagginsbill site, and when i run the sync script, V4.2 loses her arm textures.

What can I do to avoid that?

you dont use VSS 1

I downloaded  VSS but can't use it, I load the character, then the VSS prop, then run the script and get this error:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:Archivos de programae frontierPoser 7RuntimePythonvssvss.py", line 23, in ?
    import vsspzrXml30 as pzrXml
ImportError: No module named vsspzrXml30

Quote -
Hi I have some feedback, and questions.

1. For the eye materials on Daz Gen3 figures, and eyebrow/brow/lashes I changed after running the python to my own preferences instead of VSS.  Can I "teach" VSS my settings  on those materials, or disable VSS from over-ridding my settings?

If you want a specific shader in a VSS template you copy it to the template, or build it in the template. But you have to teach it which images are for what purpose. This happens via naming the nicely. The easiest way is to load the shader into the template, then go into Designer buttons and use one of them - Auto Rename Images. If your images are hooked up in a sensible way, they'll be detected and named correctly. If not, we have to do surgery.

Once you have the material in the template it will get copied according to the rules in the "Shader Rules" material zone.

If you are just making changes to my shaders, you should do the changes in template, not in the resulting figure zones. When you have modified the template to your liking you can:

1. Save the entire VSS prop as a new prop, for later reuse.
2. Save the VSS prop materials as a material collection, for later reuse.
3. Save any individual material as a material file, for later reuse.

To prevent VSS from overwriting, change the "Shader Rules". Disconnect the rule that is modifying the target zone and this will cause it to leave it alone. When I say disconnect, I mean it should not lead to a Copy node.

Quote - 2) I am working on a character that is very very pale Deep Winter with black hair. (Think Snow White) The skincolor is like sand to a wet sand color, (would you call that be pale olive, sallow, or soft beige?)  I'm finding that VSS has trouble with that. The color the shader adds in the shadows to rosey-pink instead of a sallow beige and that spots clash with the skintone. Is it possible to alter the color of the spots to one that is the right color for my target skintone?

I already showed that twice, maybe three times. I don't mean to be impatient, but you guys can't keep asking the same thing, unless perhaps I didn't cover it well the first time?

I need to know, did you skip looking at my diagram of the shader with the 5 key points to change on your own? Or is it not understandable what you're supposed to do, meaning I failed to explain it well enough the first time?

I identified where the SSS happens, where the SSS color is, where spots happens and what color it is, where the tinting happens, and so on.

There is no single shader that will produce every type of skin. In fact, this pale-Goth type is so wildly different from someone with a lot of pigment, that it doesn't even qualify as the same "material" in my opinion. It may be enough to tweak the parameters, or it may be necessary to come up with another model of pale skin altogether. Have you tried adjusting the parameters?

Quote - Would it possible to have VSS handle a skintone like this in either the commercial or free base shaders?

VSS can copy any Poser shader to a figure. That's not the right question.

The question you should be asking is can Poser simulate this type of material? The answer is yes, I believe.

A related question is, will I write such a shader? The funny thing is that was my original objective - pale skin. Super pale is just a matter of adjusting a few parameters, I think.

Have you tried adjusting the parameters?

LOL

In case I'm not being clear, what I want you to do is TRY ADJUSTING THE PARAMETERS.

LoL

Quote - 4) I plan to take the pale character and drop him into Film Noir type lighting situations. Other VSS users have found that VSS prefers brights light and doesn't performs as well under dramatic lighting.  I haven't tried it yet, but I will.  So my question is, if this true, will there a future version of VSS for low-lighting situations and dramatic lighting?

I agree that the PR1 Skin shader was designed (by accident) to need bright lights.

I don't agree that PR2 fails to work in low light. I have no intention of making a low-lighting shader, per se. What should it do differently?  Be brighter?

You already have that - adjust the gamma correction.

Remember, I have no intention of producing 8,000 skin shaders. There are key parameters here - for noobs they'll leave them alone and feel they did better, but they'll only have one skin shader. For more sophisticated users, adjusting the parameters is a MUST, and will effectively give you an infinite number of skin shaders.

Quote - Sunset Lights with Art Collab Piper.

One thing, Piper originally has shiny lips and I liked this look what would I need to adjust to add it back?

Nice renders - thanks.

We need a Template Lips and make it glossy.

You might try going into the "Shader Rules" and connect the lips rule to the eyewhite shader. Basically the eyewhite shader is wet skin.

In the future, we will have a specific template shader for lips. It will have a lip-gloss dial.

Quote - i just downloaded the vssPR1 from bagginsbill site, and when i run the sync script, V4.2 loses her arm textures.

What can I do to avoid that?

I need more info. What do you mean by "loses"?

1. The Image_Map node with the arm color map in it is gone completely, but it was there before you ran Synchronize?
2. The Image_Map node with the arm color map is still there, but not used by the new shader after you ran Synchronize?

I'm trying to understand what VSS did to the arm material zone. I've never heard it do anything bad before.

What sort of shader was on the arm before you ran VSS? VSS has to analyze the existing shader, take it apart, and re-build it using the template. It might be making a mistake, but I can't tell because you have not shown me what shader was there to start, and what shader it ended up with at the end.

Quote - i just downloaded the vssPR1 from bagginsbill site, and when i run the sync script, V4.2 loses her arm textures.

What can I do to avoid that?

Also, download and use the PR2 prop. I don't want anybody using the PR1 prop anymore. I should delete it, but I don't have time right now to work on VSS.

Quote - I downloaded  VSS but can't use it, I load the character, then the VSS prop, then run the script and get this error:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:Archivos de programae frontierPoser 7RuntimePythonvssvss.py", line 23, in ?
    import vsspzrXml30 as pzrXml
ImportError: No module named vsspzrXml30

Poser Python is telling us that you are missing a module named vsspzrXml30.py, which is in the same folder as vss.py. How did you get some files but not the others? Is there a reason you did not copy my entire folder structure?

Quote - > Quote - I downloaded  VSS but can't use it, I load the character, then the VSS prop, then run the script and get this error:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:Archivos de programae frontierPoser 7RuntimePythonvssvss.py", line 23, in ?
    import vsspzrXml30 as pzrXml
ImportError: No module named vsspzrXml30

Poser Python is telling us that you are missing a module named vsspzrXml30.py, which is in the same folder as vss.py. How did you get some files but not the others? Is there a reason you did not copy my entire folder structure?

I did copy the entire folder structure, and vsspzrXml30.py is in the same folder than vss.py

ima70,

Hmmm. I have no idea then, sorry about assuming you copied only part of it.

The error message is saying the file is not there. Perhaps this has something to do with non-English Poser.

I've about had it with Poser and Python. It's really frustrating that I can't share simple little programs reliably in the Poser community. Forget what I'm really trying to do, which is to give you a complex graphical user interface. I'm not even there yet. Right now, VSS is a tiny little toy and I cannot even get the basic buttons to work for everybody.

Stewer - if you're lurking... I'm not going to write a bug report on this, because I have no idea what the problem actually is. Make somebody fix this. Poser needs to have a consistent, reliable folder for 3rd part plugins that works correctly in every version of Poser on every operating system.

I've hacked the crap out of sys.path, trying to make this work for everybody. It doesn't. I'm done.

This is a great tool, had no problems installing/running it. This is just a click & go render. I really like the results. Rendered in Poser 7.

Thanks for reply bagginsbill, my poser is english version, not my windows that's spanish, I should uninstall Poser and reinstall in Program files folder not in Archivos de Programa, and see what happend, no now it's late here, if I get some result I'll post it here.

I don't think that the programm path is a problem. My Poser version is on "E:PoserCurious_LabsPoser 7" which is pretty non-standard, and I did not have any problem with the plugin.

Quote - I don't think that the programm path is a problem. My Poser version is on "E:PoserCurious_LabsPoser 7" which is pretty non-standard, and I did not have any problem with the plugin.

I don't think it is, either. I did a bunch of things to make this script theoretically work anywhere.

It should not matter where Poser is installed.
It should not matter where vss is, as long as all of it is together as it came in the zip.

But for some people, the buttons don't work, and for some people the whole thing doesn't work. These are path problems. There should be no path problems. I don't know what to do about it.

Quote - This is a great tool, had no problems installing/running it. This is just a click & go render. I really like the results. Rendered in Poser 7.

Thanks - your render looks very good. Am I wrong, or are you missing shadows there? Looks like it would be even better with shadows on the body/arms.

Quote - [
Thanks - your render looks very good. Am I wrong, or are you missing shadows there? Looks like it would be even better with shadows on the body/arms.

On the left image, no shadows. The right one does have them; they are set on a front light and  I think I have the settings really low. If his head was bent down more, or arms crossed, it might be more visible.

So do i download both zips from the site then or is there another link somewhere to the VSS2?

Instal the first zip into your Runtime, the second one is the VSS2 Prop only, and should go into the VSS Prop library. Hope it helps :)

that works. thanks :) holy cow long renders though hehe.

that's probably the sample count and distance on AO. my suggestion is to turn at least the samples down to 3 or 4 until your final render.

Also keep in mind that procedural shaders are math intensive. The more nodes the more calculations your computer-poser has to do.

Quote - > Quote - I don't think that the programm path is a problem. My Poser version is on "E:PoserCurious_LabsPoser 7" which is pretty non-standard, and I did not have any problem with the plugin.

I don't think it is, either. I did a bunch of things to make this script theoretically work anywhere.

It should not matter where Poser is installed.
It should not matter where vss is, as long as all of it is together as it came in the zip.

But for some people, the buttons don't work, and for some people the whole thing doesn't work. These are path problems. There should be no path problems. I don't know what to do about it.

It was all my fault, sorry, when creating the button in the Python window I called vss.py not vssMainButtons.py, my stupid error may help others to see what's wrong, now it work, testing now, sorry again. :blushing:

Quote - Also keep in mind that procedural shaders are math intensive. The more nodes the more calculations your computer-poser has to do. 

this shader should not take long to render.
something else is the problem.

actually, on a lot of computers, AO at 7 samples will take some time.

are we talking here about 5,10 minutes or 1 hour?
dont tell me that this shader will take so long.  how long would it take him to render the apollo shader? now this was complicated hehhe

it's not the complication.  it's the samples and distance.  and how long would depend on the resolution of the render, other render settings, number and speed of processors on the machine, etc.  but yeah, 7 samples vs. say, no AO at all could easily be the difference between a few minutes and a few hours on an old machine.  i know i immediately noticed a big difference in render time when i first used it, and i have a machine that's not the oldest i've seen spec'ed here and i was already using AO.

imho, that's not a criticism.  you end up with high quality renders that way, especially coupled with the render settings posted previously.  but that's why i say if you're having a slow render time, reduce the number of samples until you get to your final render.  or, if you test a small area  and find you don't care or notice more grain, leave them reduced.  it will immediately boost your time.  if you adjust the distance, that will also change the time, but it will affect how far the AO effect reaches.

personally, i've not been able to notice any difference in render time based on complication of nodes.  and this isn't nearly the most complicated material i've used.

Interesting topic - how does a shader change render time?

I just got back from a 23-hour day so I'm a little loopy and I need to go to bed.

But I'll say this about that :)

If you're going to use AO, it's because you want quality. I did some quite extensive testing, which I posted in another thread (not handy at the moment.) I found that 7 samples gets you 97% (my guestimate) of the maximum possible shadow quality that Poser is capable of. Pushing it to 10 samples will make a detectable improvement, but only if you're looking at it very closely. The other important consideration is the Irradiance Caching value. For awesome quality (and SLOOOOW renders) use 99. For medium speed/quality use 50, but sometimes you'll get artifacts. For a really fast test, use IC=0. Total crap - but fast.

Personally, I don't do test renders of this shader with raytracing enabled at all, so it costs nothing in test renders. For final render, I go to "awesome" settings, and I go get lunch.

Typical medium renders for me are 1 to 5 minutes, while "awesome" will take 30 to 60 minutes.

As far as other nodes go, most nodes (particularly math nodes) are almost free. I remember posting extensive test results on many nodes - again I can't remember where.

Lighting nodes are pretty cheap - Diffuse, Glossy, Specular, etc.

The nodes that cost a lot are raytracing nodes - Fresnel, Reflect, Refract, AO.

The nodes that cost medium to a lot are the noise nodes - Fractal_Sum, fBm, Noise, Spots, Turbulence, etc.

A "mildly complicated" shader of 100 math nodes is almost free. A "complicated" shader of 10 noise nodes + 100 math nodes is pretty slow. An "unbelievably complicated" shader of 5 lighting nodes + 10 noise nodes + 100 math nodes + 3 rayracing nodes is very slow - and that would be AMUCFS.

The VSS demo skin shader has no reflect or refract, just AO, a single noisy node (spots), and the rest are lighting and math. It is only mildly slower at test rendering than your average piece-of-crap DAZ shader. LOL

Hi bb,

     Do you have a tutorial site for VSS? Its hard to go through all 23 pages (and growing) of this forum just to look for particular things I need to know about VSS. What I want to know also is "Is it possible to adjust the redness, brightness, specularity, etc. of the shader via dials like the one by faceoff?

here
www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php

look at bagginsbill's post with the picture. you have numbers. then he explaines what the numbers mean.

Mac OS X 10.4.11 Intel Xeon with Poser 7.0.2.132

BB, sorry I am so late to the party, but I just discovered this thread last Thursday on June 26th and spent the weekend reading the first 15 pages of posts while I waited to return to my Mac on Monday night in order to try out your new VSS.

Seeing my configuration above, I'm sure you already know the results I got. Yes, loaded up the buttons in the python window, but nothing happens when I push them.

First, a little info about Macs that PC people may not know.  The "4" in my above configuration means that I'm running the "Tiger" version of Mac's OS.  When they upgraded their OS, the new number became 10.5.1.  What they "Leopard."  Very odd since most of us who are very familiar with software upgrades think of this as simply a version update.  With Mac, it's an upgrade - a $129 upgrade, in fact.* * Kind of like from Windows XP to Windows Vista.  And in spite of those cute Windows/Mac commercials, Leopard has it's share of bugs.

Next, what I did.

After downloading both files, I placed the the props and lights in my secondary runtime.  And I placed the VSS python folder in my main runtime python folder.

I then placed the vssMainButtons.py script in the "Script Menu" folder of my python folder.  Now that you have Poser 7, you're aware of what the script menu is.  This is the menu where I have the ParmaticUpdater script for AMUCFS also.

Back to Poser (after a restart to initialize the new scripts) I loaded up one of my pre-existing characters.  I loaded up the VSS 2 prop.  I went to my "scripts" and clicked on the vssMainButtons.py.  The VSS button all showed up on the python window.  I clicked "synchronize" and nothing happened.

Remembering having the same issue when installing AMUCFS, I placed the VSS python folder in the "Package Contents" folder.  This is revealed when you right-click on the actual Poser Application.  Not only did I place the whole VSS folder in my PythonExtentions folder, I also placed the contents of the folder within that folder - just to be safe.

After running the vssMainButtons script, I clicked on "synchronize" on the python window button and still nothing happened.  So, I gave up for Monday night.

However, on page 19, DancingCat was so kind to repeat the solution - which was to run that Wacro01 script - the one that mysteriously showed up in my "Scripts" menu.

Synchronizing Dixon from VSS_1
Synchronizing nodes from Template Skin to SkinTorso
Synchronizing nodes from Template Skin to Nipples
Synchronizing nodes from Template InnerMouth to InnerMouth
Synchronizing nodes from Template Skin to SkinArm
Synchronizing nodes from Template Skin to SkinHead
No rule matches zone HiroGen - skipping.
Synchronizing nodes from Template Skin to Fingernails
Synchronizing nodes from Template Skin to Toenails
Synchronizing nodes from Template Skin to Preview
Synchronizing nodes from Template Skin to SkinHand
Synchronizing nodes from Template Cornea to LCornea
Synchronizing nodes from Template Skin to SkinNeck
Synchronizing nodes from Template Pupil to LPupil
Synchronizing nodes from Template Skin to SkinForearm
Synchronizing nodes from Template Pupil to RPupil
Synchronizing nodes from Template Eyewhite to REyewhite
Synchronizing nodes from Template Lash to Eyelashes
Synchronizing nodes from Template Skin to Nostrils
Synchronizing nodes from Template Skin to glands
Synchronizing nodes from Template InnerMouth to Gums
Synchronizing nodes from Template Iris to LIris
Synchronizing nodes from Template Teeth to Teeth
Synchronizing nodes from Template InnerMouth to Tongue
Synchronizing nodes from Template Skin to SkinFeet
No rule matches zone EyeSocket - skipping.
Synchronizing nodes from Template Eyewhite to LEyewhite
Synchronizing nodes from Template Lash to Eyebrows
Synchronizing nodes from Template Skin to ForeSkin
Synchronizing nodes from Template Cornea to RCornea
Synchronizing nodes from Template Eyewhite to Lacrimal
Synchronizing nodes from Template Skin to SkinLeg
Synchronizing nodes from Template Skin to Lips
Synchronizing nodes from Template Skin to SkinScalp
No rule matches zone PubicHair - skipping.
Synchronizing nodes from Template Skin to SkinHip
Synchronizing nodes from Template Iris to RIris

The next time you run synchronize, if the message is the same
as this one, I won't bother printing it.
Synchronizing D-Gens from VSS_1
Synchronizing nodes from Template Skin to glands
Synchronizing nodes from Template Skin to Preview
No rule matches zone HiroGen - skipping.

The next time you run synchronize, if the message is the same
as this one, I won't bother printing it.

Here are my results.  believe it or not, this is The Freak.  He doesn't come with a woo-hoo so I've attached Adzan's HiroGen prop in lieu.  It has 2 material zones to it. 1) Glands (which you are familiar with because of Apollo) and 2) HiroGen (The rest of the shaft and scrotum - the "skin")  As you see above the script did not recognize that name and as you can tell from the picture, ignored it  -but not the glands.

jd - this is a different problem than AMUCFS. I fixed that problem. The old problem was that on certain versions of Poser, the Runtime:Python folder is in the list of searchable places, and on others it is not. My mistake was to tell people to use that folder, when in fact it is not universally findable.

But vssMainButtons.py has code in it to add its own location to that list of findable python folders. Unfortunately, by separating vssMainButtons.py from the rest of vss, you broke that feature. Fortunately, I still look in the main runtime and it found it there. I know it found it because you see the buttons. If it could not find it, the buttons would not be there. Instead you would get a Python Exception.

Meanwhile, we have this new issue, which is that when I loaded the buttons with path names, they are somehow not right on your Mac and some other Mac's. Not all, just some.

If you would like to help me debug this, here's how.

I've uploaded a special copy of vssui.py into my google file cabinet. It is here:

http://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/file-cabinet

Go to that cabinet and download the vssui.py file there. Make sure you replace the one you have already with this new one.

The new one will print some extra information for me when you first execute the script. It will display this in the Python console window. The information is going to include the actual path that VSS thinks should be used to find the VSS macro files, which are supposed to be connected to those buttons.

Please copy and paste what it says here, so I can see what the heck the MAC software did wrong with the paths.

People on the PC should never see this problem. I believe also, that Poser 6 on MAC does not have this problem. Not sure.

Whoever has the problem, if you want to help debug it, please try it.

That vssui.py does not do anything different or better - it just displays more info for me.

After several of you do this, others can stop - no need to fill this thread up with tons of duplicate information.

However, if there is even one Poser 7 MAC person who does NOT see this problem, then please run the new script and tell me what you see. Because, if you do NOT see the problem, it will tell me what paths actually do work.

If you go to the file cabinet and do NOT see that file, then you can assume I don't want anybody using it anymore.

I won't be back to my Mac until late night here on the west coast, but it will be the first thing I do when I get home.  You'll find the results when you wake up tomorrow.

Unless another Mac user beats me to it.

Anyways, the VSS version on the right is 100 times better than on the left.  Perhaps a little hot, but I did nothing more than run the synchronize script.

In this picture, I used your indoor02 (I believe - I'm not at my Mac and it's the peice of info I forgot to check before leaving the house this morning)

Initially, Dixon was WAY blown-out in light.  So, I reduced the intensity of all 3 lights to exactly 1/2 of their original setting.

I also changed the spot color to pure white and the first value (can't remember name) I reduced to, I think, .4.

Also, the 2.2 value on whichever node you always talk about, I reduced to 1.8.

I remember throughout the 23 pages reading about how to fix this and that, but I have to go back and look for the info again to clean this up.  I didn't have time this morning trying to rush to work.

Wow freekie. I just saw a bunch of your posts and images show up that I didn't see just 30 seconds ago.

Listen - tomorrow I'm going up to my condo in Maine for the holiday and I won't have internet access until Sunday.

So I can't follow up till then. Looking forward to seeing what I find when I get back.

Apollo does have a Hair TransMap, which we all know is way better than painted on hair. 

Jepe's texture doesn't have a TransMap, all the hair was painted on (I believe, by hand.)  In fact, he provided in that package 4 separate Maps with different degrees of hair.  Hopefully from what he's learned in this thread, in the future, he'll provide 1 hairless texture and then 3 separate TransMaps.

So the picture on the left is AMUCFS with Jepe's Dick AM VI plugged into it.  Again, Jepe doesn't include a Hair TransMap and that's why the hair is so flat in left picture.

I took the texture map into PS and desaturated it, blew it up with light so almost everything washed away.  I then erased everything that wasn't hair and wa-la:  A Hair TransMap.  Which is applied on the right and makes the hairs POP off the body.  I l;earned all that with your help.

Now, I just need to figure out how to apply Hair TransMaps in VSS so get them on my models in the future.

Sorry about so many posts at once but I forced myself not to post anything until I was completely caught up.  23 pages later and now I'm posting everything at once.

Ah - I didn't realize that. I thought Jepe made a transmap. Well Jepe is a convert now, so we can hope.

My heart goes out to you man. Poser started as a Mac only app as did Bryce, Painter and Carrara. Once they got the bugs out, found success, they ported over to PC and their sales sky rocketed. Since then Mac support has been less than stellar. In large part due to Apple's developer attitude.

(Former long time Mac User now miserably on PC).

BTW, isn't a Tiger more powerful than a leopard? What's next, Maine Coon?

Sorry, I was replying to jdredline 1st post.

Isaoshi reports this from my button info. Anybody here understand Mac path issues? These look unix-like to me. Are they just like unix? I thought the Mac path separator was colon, and that a Mac leading colon is the opposite of a PC-Unix leading /. In Mac land a leading colon means it's a relative path, whereas in PC-Unix a leading / means it's an absolute path.

So is Poser thinking these are relative paths or absolute paths? Because they are absolute paths, right? I didn't make these paths - Poser did when I asked it to. The code also has to generate the actual macro files, and we know it does that in the right place.

I need somebody who understands Mac path interpretation to explain the problem to me here because I just don't see it.

script button 1: 'Synchronize'

        invokes: '/Applications/Poser 7/Runtime/Python/vss/macro1.py'

script button 2: 'Render'

        invokes: '/Applications/Poser 7/Runtime/Python/vss/macro2.py'

script button 3: 'Designer...'

        invokes: '/Applications/Poser 7/Runtime/Python/vss/macro3.py'

script button 10: 'Poser Main Buttons'

        invokes: ':Runtime:Python:poserscripts:mainButtons.py'

Also, anybody who shows me output - please grab all of it. There should be stuff before those button infos. But I do not need to see "Synchronize" logs right now.

Could it be that Poser python buttons are just stupid, and only understand the slashes on PC, even though this Mac uses slashes?

Do I have to change those slashes to colons?

Can somebody on a Mac try manually making Python buttons for my macro paths using colons instead?

Also try with and without leading slash or colon.

What happens?

In case any of you understand Python, I'm just doing os.path.join(vssFolder, 'macro1.py') 

That is the official way to join folder names with file names.

Why is that not producing the desired outcome?

BB, I got the same results as Isaoshi. 

Mac OS X 10.4.11 Intel Xeon with Poser 7.0.2.132

BTW, although I'm Mac, I come from PC and still have & use my PC right next to my Mac. 
Unfortunately, I don't understand how the Mac works as well as I understand how the PC works.

A vast improvement!

A Fantastic thing this VSS is!!