Well, I got round to it at last!  Sorry for the delay, but I've been having computer problems like you wouldn't believe - I mean serious problems.

Anyway, I rushed this video together last night.  They're giving me a new replacement laptop and I don't know how long that will take, so, I thought I'd better get this video done now.

It's not too bad, it should at least get the basics across on why you don't have to 'fake' colour bleed in Bryce.  I'm not sure everyone will be able to understand me though - because I'm recovering from a cold.  I literally had to talk through my damn nose on this video, but, it can't be helped.

IMPORTANT
There is not much bandwidth available so PLEASE DO NOT try to play the video directly from the website.  Instead, save the files to your hard disk first before you watch/use them.

Two sets of downloads are available, some for Bryce 5 and 5.5 users and some for Bryce 6 users, so please be sure to download the correct version.

BRYCE 5 and Bryce 5.5 DOWNLOADS

VIDEO FILE (75MB WMV Format): http://www.pumeco.com/temp/PRB_Random.wmv
SCENE FILE (Bryce 5 Format): http://www.pumeco.com/temp/Pro-Render_Basic.br5

Bryce 6 DOWNLOADS

VIDEO FILE (75MB WMV Format): http://www.pumeco.com/temp/PRB_Random.wmv
SCENE FILE (Bryce 6 Format): http://www.pumeco.com/temp/Pro-Render_Basic.br6

Just one thing I forgot to mention in the video.  Don't be put off by the boring tutorial.  Once you start using this concept on your own objects in your own scenes, you'll hopefully start to get satisfaction from it.  Oh, and BTW, it's only four years late, so, no complaints either ... so there!

Nice to see you about again Pumee!

Hey, cheers Brystie!

BTW, did you understand the vid with it not being in Cydonian?

BTW, did you understand the vid with it not being in Cydonian?

That would be a 'No'.

Cool vid...thanx for 2 versions for us cash deprived folks who don't have 6...5 ver works well...I expect this will be wonderful for indoor as well as the forest type scenes which I flavour.. ...

Best point out of the tutorial is keeping those Mat values "in synch". That's always been a good Bryce rule of thumb even when not using True Ambience.

Thanks Pumeco!

In the the future, when a movie ends and I see 'Kirk Dunne' in the credits, I just know I'm gonna say 'Hey, that guy had a play with Pro-Render" :woot:

I've been daring Producers to give me the credit of "Lead Bryce Artist" just as joke to see if anyone would notice...no takers yet, lol.

Using the True Ambience along with HDRI - I have to bring the Value of the Material Color WAY down. Or, at least I like how doing that looks compared to just reducing the light of HDRI WAY down. Either way can give you a slightly different look to the lighting of the scene.

But, True Ambience + HDRI....whew, its gonna be a long-ish render, even with quad cores.  ;o)

lol - Now you've got me wondering if Bryce has ever been given credit in a big movie or something like that.

Too right on the render times with TA + HDRI.  Still, I've started to play around with HDRI more and more now and I gotta say it looks really good in Bryce.  Despite the render times I'm going to try and integrate it with Pro-Render.  There's bound to be a formula that works well - and I think the results would be amazing.

I'll definately have to raid Horo's site first though.  I don't know the technical spec's of HDRI yet but his website is excellent - loads of useful info on it.

It's just like using the Bryce Sky with TA, it affects the lighting & shadows. IMHO, Keep that HDRI Quality down to 16 though, unless you love week long or even month long render times. I've never used a value higher than 16 on any of my hdri renders.

I heard a rumor years back that Bryce was used in the last "Time Machine" movie, to show erosion of a landscape. However, later, it turned out that it was used as a concept shot, and some high-falutin' heretical, megadollar app was used instead...;)

However, Agent Smith was used in a crowd scene in 'Spiderman 1'...which as as close as we've gotten to date...;)

bandwidth exceeded........will try again later

Lol...yup, you're right there pakled. I would wager a hunch though that that particular scene you are talking about in Time Machine might have been helped out by Terragen 2.0, or at least the guy who invented it.

(The inventor of Terragen once worked at Digital Domain, which did the special effects for Time Machine)

Hey btw, the current movie I have worked on is being directed by Simon Wells, whom had directed Time Machine.

AS

Sorry for the inconvenience, I knew the bandwidth wouldn't last long but that's ridiculous!

Either folk are repeat-streaming the video instead of saving to disk, or the video is sparking interest.  Unfortunately, the bandwidth has gone until next month arrives and there's absolutely nothing I can do about it.

I'm wondering if ICM or Brystie could give the files a more permanent home in that Backroom thingy?

AS, thanks for the tip, I'll have to remember that 'cause my new comp is only 2.4 Core2 Duo ... aaargh!!!  I wish I hadn't needed a laptop so badly because with the money I paid for this thing, I could have built an absolutely scorching desktop!

*I'm wondering if ICM or Brystie could give the files a more permanent home in that Backroom

*Once I have them DL'd, I'll store them here and post a link on the "Backroom Links" page.

Cheers Rod, that's great!

Rather than wait a month, what about if I put the files into a ZIP and email them to you?
If that's possible please drop me a private message with an email address.

Thank's again.

In your next "movie", could you please either put captions or supply a running script alongside. I'm deaf, believe it or not and found it difficult to follow. All I see is the arrow  waving about the screen, stopping here and there, then  PRESTO!!! :scared:  Something (a sphere and a torus)  pops up on the screen like MAGIC!!! :scared: Then the "magic" arrow cursor is waving around the 2 magical objects that has appeared for a time then suddenly all the wire(form)s turned red, (embarrassed the heck out of them, eh?) then PRESTO CHANGE-O!!! :scared: We're in the mat editor, where the "magic" arrow plays around with those slide thingy at the end of diffusion and ambiance hole. Then  suddenly nothing... Absolutely nothing! :huh:  Everything is black...  The End????

:b_crying:

On a serious note, I am not making fun of the video. I think it's high time Bryce got a little visual tutorial of the sort, only I was hoping it would take the forefront in remembering that not everyone on the internet can hear well. I generally shy away from online learning videos unless they happened to have a transcript or embedded comments or captions to go with the video.

Sorry, ThunderStone.

I was going to add captions here and there but it really was a rush effort, if I hadn't managed to get it done that night it could well have been a long time until I'd been able to give it another bash - so I didn't chance it.

When I captioned a video a few years back it felt messy and it somehow distracted the viewing, so in all honesty I wasn't that keen on adding adding text to the video anyway.  I appreciate what you're saying but I'm not going to caption it.  I know that's not what you wanted to hear but I've got my head in all sorts of stuff right now and I just can't be bothered.

I'm considering doing another video but unfortunately I won't be captioning that one either.  All I can do is apologise and tell you that if someone here would like to take the video and caption it for you then of course they have my permission to do so.

That's alright. No need to apologize. Time is a luxury we all can't afford to dole out for the minorities.

Guess I'll just miss out on the tut. No biggie, I've manage to learn without video and will continue.

It was an idea.

TS

Dammit, I hate refusing.

Not sure if this will help but when the arrow uses the menu for the first time, it's because I'm selecting 'Copy Material' from the Edit menu.  After that, every time I use the menu it's because I'm using 'Paste Material' from the Edit menu.  The plane has a material applied to it that must be used as a base material to work from.

Then when I go into the Materials Lab and change the values it's to ensure their total does not exceed 100.  For example Reflection set to 75 would mean Diffuse/Ambience needs to be reduced to 25 to compensate.  Same rule for transparency, and remember that on transparent objects reflection is controlled by refraction, not reflection.

Diffuse and Ambient colours always need to be the same as each other and for the Sky & Fog settings and any lights you create, shadows need to be black and set to a value of 100.

That just might make the video make a little more sense

Just got home from work too late!! Bandwidth exceeded.   Oh well will have to wait I guess.

Good news; the files are now back up thank's to Horo's generous offer to help with hosting.  Please note that the download structure has changed and so has the way you download the files so please read carefully before you download.

The files are now in .zip format, there are two .zip files and each person will only need ONE of them.
There are also different download locations for different connection speeds.
If you have problems with these links please try again a few hours later.

For BRYCE 5 and BRYCE 5.5 users on a SLOW connection use this link :
http://www.horo.dyndns.org/public/Pro-Render_Basic_B5.zip

For BRYCE 5 and BRYCE 5.5 users on a FAST connection use this link :
http://www.horo.ch/guestxchg/Pro-Render_Basic_B5.zip

For BRYCE 6 users on a SLOW connection use this link :
http://www.horo.dyndns.org/public/Pro-Render_Basic_B6.zip

For BRYCE 6 users on a FAST connection use this link :
http://www.horo.ch/guestxchg/Pro-Render_Basic_B6.zip

BTW, if anyone on this site hasn't checked out Horo's informative website yet :
http://www.horo.ch

Quote - Dammit, I hate refusing.

Not sure if this will help but when the arrow uses the menu for the first time, it's because I'm selecting 'Copy Material' from the Edit menu.  After that, every time I use the menu it's because I'm using 'Paste Material' from the Edit menu.  The plane has a material applied to it that must be used as a base material to work from.

Then when I go into the Materials Lab and change the values it's to ensure their total does not exceed 100.  For example Reflection set to 75 would mean Diffuse/Ambience needs to be reduced to 25 to compensate.  Same rule for transparency, and remember that on transparent objects reflection is controlled by refraction, not reflection.

Diffuse and Ambient colours always need to be the same as each other and for the Sky & Fog settings and any lights you create, shadows need to be black and set to a value of 100.

That just might make the video make a little more sense

Ohhh, now I am beginning to understand the pro rendering secret... And yes, it does make the video a little more sense.  I had tried out a set of robots but am going to re-try them again using this new way of doing things.

I'll post a rendering up here soon.

Thanks!

:b_smile:

Tell me what you think. It's a WIP.

Looking good, two things though;

You can't ignore the envivonment with this system.  Obviously you can have most of the sky and environment settings however you want them, but be sure that the shadow colour is always black and set the shadow intensity to 100.

In the next stage of that WIP I think I'd do something with the sky 'cause reflecting a flat colour tends to make things look flat - especially on very reflective objects.

Cheers ThunderStone, I'm really glad the description helped you get into it

Okay, Am going to work now on the environment. Don't know if I am going to be indoors or outdoors... Maybe I'll do one of each. ...

Thanks again!

TS

*It can be noticed, but you really HAVE to use a very bright value color to get an effect that the viewer can readily see, and even then it is slight. (and spread over a larger area, for some reason; most likely due to the HDRI having multiple sources of light(?))

Would be great if the TA effect could be pumped up well beyond what it does now. Of course, if I could get that, I would then want TA range and falloff control, lol.

But, if it could be pumped up to a huge degree....you would start to be able to simulate (fake) something I tried to talk DAZ into years ago and that was to turn any mesh into a light source...

AS

I dunno if you know this AS, but I've noticed through the years that you like to use lot's of reflection (and not forgetting rust obviously) in your renders.

Nothing wrong with that, but did you know that the more reflective your materials are, the less colour bleed you will get?  I say this because you're after that colour bleed, and because you're following the rules you're kinda making it harder on yourself because the more reflective your material is, the less Ambience/Diffuse is allowed.

Remember, less Ambience = less colour bleed.

As for the HDRI tests, lol, I dare not even get into mixing things with it yet.  But yes, I say you're right to suspect the amount of light sources for the overpowering effect.  Kinda like using lightdomes where eveything feels oversensitive.

Anyway, I would test HDRI using only fully Ambient/Diffuse materials, at least that way you get to see the optimum results possible with maxed-out Ambience.

Yet also, when using Reflection I make sure the Metallicity value is in synch. Normally (for me) that means either having;

• The Reflection and Metallicity values add up together to be 100 (i.e.; 50-50, 75-25, etc).
• Or, as in your TA Diffusion/Ambience, just have them match (100-100) , whichever way looks best in the end.

In this case, the sphere with a Reflection value of 50, also has a Metallicity value of 50 and the sphere with a Reflection value of 100, also has a Metallicity value of 100.

"I would test HDRI using only fully Ambient/Diffuse materials"
-Oh yeah, when making a TA render I always make sure the Ambience is maxed out at 100, also as your video tutorial points out, additionally making sure the Diffusion is not only also maxed out, but matches the Ambience color exactly. If I need to make the overall mesh lighter or darker, I do that with the color values only (hue, saturation value, etc)

That all sounds good AS, I like the balance and sync stuff you speak of.  One problem though is that because TA was recently discovered to be highly blurred reflection, when you feel the bleed does not make much difference it's probably because it showing it as a more 'clean' reflection instead.

Anyway, check out this thread - there's a request for you :biggrin:
http://forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=95359&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Yeah, the basics of balancing of various values in the Materials Lab was something I picked up from the Real World Bryce 4 book some years ago. It's a good starting point, but sometimes mats have to be tweaked to look "good" in various lighting situations.

Heh - I take it no vid's on rust then!

Rust is easy. Its just getting the time to get something together and doing it. With my work schedule I only have about 2 waking hours at home.  ;o(

Just teasing AS, no prob's.

If you keep up at that rate though you can consider yourself to be as overworked as the avarage Brit'.  Something I'm determined never to fall into, even if it means I can't afford many luxuries because of it.

Sod that for a lark, I like to keep work to a healthy amount!

Attached Link: Video Tutorials

What about uploading it to the new Video Tutorials Section they were going on about a while back. That is what it is. Save space in our Backroom. I have both the Pro-Render_Basic.br5 and Pro-Render_Basic.br6 as well PRB_Random.wmv and could do it later...would put the br5&6 files in freestuff tho.. ...

From the Renderosity video upload section FAQ ;

How long can my videos be? Videos can be a maximum of 10 minutes.
What is the [max] resolution of the video? 640x480

Huh? Really? Why in the world would those two things matter? The internet boils down to one single aspect, bandwidth.

I mean, I guess pumeco could slice his video into thirds (its almost 23 minutes long). That does make logical sense....but, even then its resolution is too big at 720x576. Which, is illogical to me...

Ah....I see. Renderosity uses its own little embeded player. Too bad. But, I guess it keeps it from being leeched easily.

Okay...logic returning...green skin fading....

This is from the uploads page itself. Maybe I can downsize it with something, cuz 100mb is way bigger than the 77mb of the vid so screen size is the only problem. I'll look for a free editor and see what I can do. If someone has an editor and can do it I'll put this up at sendSpace and they can dl and convert it as another option.....oops I totally missed the 10 min. length...guess we need a host site...maybe I'll do it at sharecg just post it as well in freestuff...the backroom can link to that as well. Comments please, before I do anything...thanks.. ...

How long can my videos be? Videos can be a maximum of 10 minutes.
What video formats are supported? All major video formats are supported, including the 3pg format found on mobile phones. If you're having a problem uploading a certain video format, email us at admin@renderosity.com to see how we can help.
What is the resolution of the video? 640x480
What is the maximum file size? Max file size is 100 mb.

Hey thank's for going to all that trouble, Bobby

Yeah, video file-size, resolution, codec, etc ... can be a real pain in the arse ... you get one part right, then there's a problem with something else - feels like you just can't win!

That was a neat idea to try putting the video in the video downloads, but like you say, can't be done because of resolution - which is a shame.  It would have been fine if the upload procedure actually downscaled the resolution automatically like YouTube does.  Still it's good you pointed it out because next time I'll see if it can be kept to 640X480.

Actually, I think I tried that but Bryce was too big to fit in the screen.  My video capturing software doesn't have that panning ability some of the others have - but I chose to go for quality over the ability to pan.  For 75MB though, the video and sound quality is very good considering it's resolution and running time.  It would have been even sharper if I hadn't been having computer prob's because it had to go through 'three' encodings before I got to what you downloaded - lol

Anything you want to do is fine by me Bobby, it's copyright free so fire away if you wish!

To be honest I'm far from happy with the video now that I look back on it.  Not only that, there's things I've accidentally missed from the video - and quite a biggie as well!  It's got me needing to do another video so ... I dunno ... maybe it's best kept low profile for now at least.

There's not many people uploading their results, the DAZ thread is certainly picking-up, but for the most part I'm shocked at how little response there is by way of render uploads.  Bryce doesn't have Radiosity so I'm amazed that Brycers aren't realizing what this thing can do for them, colour bleed is there for all to be had!

Anyway folks, two important things that need to be added to that video :

1 > Use 75% shadows on the sky and any lights, do not use 100% described in video.
2 > Don't use the 'Sky Dome Colour' setting (second from right), it must always be black.

Those two are very important and need to be taken into account.

Re: posting of results, I did a few tests in br5 but beyond the test render I haven't had the time on my workstation to do a full render. Was trying one for the Light Comp but it was going to interfere mercilessly with the work I absolutelly need to get done [cash cow stuff] on the workstation, I emphasize thr work part...sigh..I now need a Bryce compute and a terragen one as well as a cash cow one...LOL...need another job it seems. I think it's the render times for the technique that are keeping renders out of the loop at this point...sigh.
Re: posting of the vid....if you are going to do it again and as the time limit for here is 10 min., maybe break it up into 2 or 3 parts so we can fit it in here...that would be the best option. I do believe that .wmv will work here...it's just the screen res[needs to be max 640x480] that needs to be addressed as well as the length [time wise]...size was fine as we can do 100mb uploads.
If bandwidth is a problem I will still upload it to my sendspace account if folks want/need it and I can stash the 2 br's there as well...just let me know folks and I'll do it and post a link here.. ...

Thank's again Bobby, I've been sorting out the pumeco.com site so that it has tons of lovely bandwidth!  The bandwidth is back but the site has been moved and needs time to propagate before it get's used.

I'm with you all the way on that feeling you get from a slow computer.  My desktop is single core 2.6 Celeron and even the new laptop is only 2.4 Core2 Duo.  Good specs for a laptop, but considering I'm using it as a desktop replacement it's actualy slow by todays standards - and even slower if you use Bryce a lot.

Aaargh!

I better start selling stuff on R'osity to help me buy a better desktop comp!

A permanent download area for my files is now available at :
http://www.pumeco.com/pumeco/

People wishing to download should follow the link and choose the correct file from there (only one file is required).  Also, anyone wishing to link to these files should also use the link above as the website will block 'direct' downloads in the future.

Again, my thank's go to Horo for helping out with bandwidth when pumeco.com went down
http://www.horo.ch

More Files Uploaded: Glowing Objects
http://www.pumeco.com/pumeco/

In response to Horo's interest in Volumetric Ambience, I have uploaded two samples of how Volumetric Ambience can be used as a glowing object or light. To use Volumetric Ambience in Pro-Render, you need to activate Volumetric material by clicking on the Volume button. You must also synchronise the colour of Volume with the Ambient/Diffuse colour.

I figured this would be a quicker and easier way than recreating a scene, for now at least. Please note that the new uploads are of course, Pro-Render Basic compliant. You should experiment by changing the colour of both the sky and of the glowing object.

Electrosnake!!!

Hey, you could use this technique for 'glowing trim' on Bolo if he's not been deleted; he'd start to look like something out of Tron!

Something's come up I need to work on so I'll not be posting for a week or so.  I've been working on more stuff for this, though, and I will be gradually adding more and more files over the following weeks (very useful for the beginners) - allthough I doubt I'll be going 'round updating all the threads for a while to reflect this.

Be sure to check back to http://www.pumeco.com/pumeco/ now and then because there's more files to come - I promise.

I'll be logging in to read the forums but only to grab replies.
It stops me getting stuff done otherwise.

Another file added to help coordinate what was said in the video with actual materials.  Simply examine them and note how they relate to the rules stated in the video.

There's more to come :
http://www.pumeco.com/pumeco/

UPDATE:

More files uploaded and some rearrangement to make finding them easier.
http://www.pumeco.com/pumeco/

I got a message from richter of bryce5.com the other day.  He pointed out a render he'd done using Pro-Render; a cool concept tech-looking thing.  I don't think he posts here though so I'm including a link to the image.

http://www.bryce5.com/details.php?image_id=3456

I hope such renders will encourage more Brycers to learn the Pro-Render rules system.

Pumeco? Pro-render? LOL now this brings back memories.

• waiting for Pumeco vs. Draculaz meltdown*