Actually, I didn't much use photo references at all. Just so you know. Mostly, I studied actual people and tried to understand the shapes and construction principles, then sculpted from memory. If you've ever done any figure drawing, you will know that working from photographs is generally not a good idea, unless you've already done so much life drawing that you know your anatomy by heart. But I agree that I should have used more references to check the look after sculpting.

You may be right about the hands. Maybe I got a bit tired and didn't give them the attention and detail they needed. Or maybe they're just more difficult than other body parts.

You have to remember that I'm an amateur. This is only the fourth mesh I ever made. It was the first time I ever tried to rig something in Poser, and I only started with the rig once the mesh was pretty much complete. So I didn't have any experience that would tell me how much detail the hands really needed to look good when posed. As with the rest of the body, I decided to keep it as simple as I could and figure out later, after rigging, whether I needed more detail or a different flow. Because I had to change hardly anything in the mesh to make her bend nicely, I may have overlooked the fact that the hands could have used some refinements. But actually I'm not sure how well one can really do hands in Poser. Most of the figures I've worked with had pretty crappy hands.

Maybe something to look into when it's time for Antonia 2?? :biggrin:

Hands are a nightmare. Period. Whether drawing them or sculpting them.  Antonia's hands are still a big step up from V4's or M4's in my opinion. I was working with all three last night to the point of madness.  Compared to MOST poser figures, Antonia's hand compare favorably from what I've seen and worked with!

In that Antonia is your forth mesh, it's startling that you got so close to 'perfection' with that try!  Geez. :laugh:  Leave improvements to later.  We're still working on doing stuff with this version!

Ha! That made be remember just how crap the hands I did in life drawing used to be. You people are all very lucky Antonia has halfway decent hands. :tongue1:

Also, the best thing about the hands is obviously phantom3D's rigging. To think I actually offered to rig them myself.

Quote - There is not the expected permanent creases in the palm suggest by topology...

thank god there isn't.  if you model things like deep creases, then all the texture elements need to follow it.  hand and foot creases are darker in color.  it makes more sense to put those in a displacement map, or you have to place each line on the hands incredibly carefully to match the mesh.

@Starkdog:   Love the color of that dress. Nice! Dynamic clothing is beyond my comprehension at this time, but it looks like it works well. Does show off her curves well.

I was very pleased to get the chance to make a rig for such a gorgeous mesh. Antonia's mesh was really a treat to work with, clean and functional. I left the hands plain without any JCM's or morphs of any kind, this will allow odf to add poly's or change things around as he sees fit, with out messing up the hand grasp etc.  I understand this is an alfa release, yes?

continuing to follow her progress with delight.

Mike.

Starkdog: Love the dress. Definitely some nice curve-hugging going on there.

I haven't done much with dynamic clothes yet, but a tip I've seen for making them sit tighter is to shrink both the dress and the figure some amount in the first frame and then expand just the figure, but not the dress, back to normal size. The more shrinkage, the tighter the clothes will be in the end. I imagine something like that could be used, but a little more selectively, to solve that little collision problem you have. But that's really just a guess.

On the other hand: why should Antonia be better off than most women with a similar body shape?

Quote - I left the hands plain without any JCM's or morphs of any kind, this will allow odf to add poly's or change things around as he sees fit, with out messing up the hand grasp etc.  I understand this is an alfa release, yes?

That's true. As long as no one's made any non-second-skin gloves, changing the hand mesh a little shouldn't break anything.

I have to confess, though, that for the time being, I'm no longer in "fiddling around endlessly with every little bit of the mesh" mode. So basically, I have a tendency now to leave things be unless they're obviously broken (as was the case with the ears a little while back) and concentrate on getting the figure ready for use. What that means for the hands is that I might have a look at the knuckles at the first finger joints and see if adding a few polygons there will make them bend more smoothly, but that's pretty much it.

I am finished with the texture set...yay! All mc6 and pz2 files are done. I've zipped it and will upload to my site tomorrow (or later today, actually). odf, I'll send you the link by email when she's there. She has two body textures, one with pub hair and one with no pub hair. And she has four face styles, two made for P5 and above with mc6 files and two with pz2 files compatible for Poser 4, also five iris shades.

Yay! Thanks, BluEcho!

Quote - Yay! Thanks, BluEcho!

So say we all.

Wahey! (offers virtual glass of wine to BluEcho) Just got to learn to use the VSS system now....

A Definite WOOHOOOOOO! moment for all of us following this thread!  Now we need some clothes for her, and some more morphs, and shoes, and we'll see how she takes off! :laugh:

Maybe this is a good opportunity to talk about licensing. It's great to see people make free content for Antonia. But there are different degrees of free. So you need to decide which kind license to put your content under. D'oh, you say. You already knew that. But what I'd like to remind you of is that the figure itself will be under the Creative Commons Attribution License. What that means, in particular, is that it can not only be redistributed, but also sold without any obligation to pay me or phantom3D anything. Not everyone who contributes to the project will want that kind of thing.

So here's the thing: if you're happy to publish your product under the CCAL, we can put it in the official Antonia package without thinking twice. If you would restrict redistribution or commercial use, we should probably put it in a different package to avoid confusion. But of course, once I've set up a web site, I'll be happy to host contributed content on there that uses different licensing. I'm not going to accept any retail content though, because I can't be bothered to descend into the purgatory that is online payment processing. I hope you understand.

I'm just putting this out here for now so you can think about it before you send me your stuff. I'll definitely make sure though that I won't make anything public unless I understand what licensing the creator has in mind.

If you'd like to put any of the Morphs I did into the Official Package, I hereby give my official permission to do so as per the terms of the CCAL, and transfer rights of property on those said morphs for Antonia to you (also known as as:odf, on Renderosity) in perpetuity.

By posting this, I agree to abide by the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution License on the Antonia figure, and honor the wishes of odf, said creator of that figure.

That done...Like any more morphs? :laugh:  I didn't know I had that much legal terminology in me! LOLOL

Would you mind signing that in blood for me?

And I also understand and agree to the terms and quote, " I hereby give my official permission to do so as per the terms of the CCAL, and transfer rights of property on those said morphs for Antonia to you (also known as as:odf, on Renderosity) in perpetuity. By posting this, I agree to abide by the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution License on the Antonia figure, and honor the wishes of odf, said creator of that figure." Texture will be on my site in a couple of hours. :)

I'm out of blood.  I didn't know I was a trend setter! :laugh: I guess we're REALLY committed to getting Antonia off the ground, and moving this project forward with some OMMMMPH!

I know I'm committed.  To the project, I'm narrowly avoiding being committed on other grounds! :lol:

Eagerly looking for a texture! Somebody give Blue some morphs to go with a new look! I need to re-do the brow up and down morphs, though.

Ooops, should have inserted "textures' in place of morphs. lol. My mind is about to explode, the grand daughters are being very loud and naughty today.

You could have written it in red,too. LOLOLOLOLOL

No,no, i'm seeing red enough as it is. lol.

some kiddies need a time out here.

Aww!! I love you guys. :woot: ::blows kisses::

Listen, I'm having a slight case of getting married this weekend, so I'm not sure how soon I can give your textures and morphs the proper attention. But I'm definitely looking forward to it.

Hey, congrats! Now get outta here and spend some time with your beloved! :)

Unfortunately our bosses might object to that.

Good GOD! You goof!  Getting married would be a higher priority to me than a VIRTUAL girl!

What kind of "Bosses" do you serve? {Picture of a HUGE PC game BOSS monster leaps to mind...]

Get married when you can.....and are you going to be gone all next week, or are you going to punt that,too? :laugh:  Wow, you're shaping up as a true romantic.

P.S. Congrats and do you want me to send you the objects for the morphs?

@ Blue--Went to your website--SO MUCH FLICKERING!!  OMG!  I feel like I sprained my eyes on it!  I'm glad I don't suffer seizures, or I'd be twitching on the floor right now.:laugh:

I think you could turn down the pulsing of the stars to below 5-10 Hertz and I wouldn't mind.  Even down to the flickering of Xmas lights would be cool. Shouldn't background  STAY in the background?

I normally don't complain about stuff like this, but my eyes feel.....ah.....PROBED by aliens, if you get my drift?:lol:

I loved the rest of it!  The dripping blood was very cool. The blue haired woman with the guitar should be your avatar. Very VERY cool!:woot:

My Daughter loved the stars, but was curious about the "dripping paint" (she's 6)

Looking forward to the texture!

I've just downloaded Antonia, and when I have the time, I'll see about getting her mapped correctly, the way she should have been from the beginning.  Poser needs, and should be working towards a UNIFORMITY in texture configuration, not more discrete and confused diversity. RailRoads all use the same guage, cars of different brands and make can all drive on the same street, and use the same gas to fuel their engines.  Only in Poser do we see this multiplicity of dissonant UV mapping.
As for Antonia, when I finish some of my other projects, I'll try to correct this.
DPH

UV mapping apparently is a real pain.  I use Accutrans to slap a flat map on what ever, and not worry otherwise.  I have UV mapper classic, so I'm lost otherwise.  If you want to map Antonia to a V3 standard, I REALLY do not think that anyone might mind.  I know odf had some REAL problems getting Antonia's UV maps as presentable as they are.

He's a pro modeler, but he has had problems with the mapping.  You know....You are as close to an expert UV mapper as I've seen around here.

This is sort of exciting!
Modeling: odf
Rigging: Phantom3d
Shader nodes: Bagginsbill
Uv mapping by dphoadley

It staggers me that the best and brightest of rendo want to push this project along!  Wowee! :laugh:

dph: I don't quite agree that we need the same UV mapping for every figure, but I'd definitely welcome a V3 style mapping. You're obviously the master of UVs in these parts, so it's great to have you on board. The existing mapping was just my attempt to get something working so people who wanted to make original textures for Antonia could do that. You might have heard the saying: "perfect is the enemy of done."

I gave some thought on how to support multiple UV mappings for a figure, and I think I've got the answer. The height map I posted a few pages back was a first test. One can actually use Poser to render a texture map for UV mapping A onto a template for UV mapping B and thus convert the texture map into one that works with B. Obviously, there will be some loss in detail, but if the original map has fairly high resolution and appropriate filtering is used, it shouldn't be too bad.
I need to work on the details a bit, but basically there will be a little program that takes as input two .obj files of the same figure with different UV mappings, and outputs a third .obj file that can then be imported into Poser as a prop in order to convert as many textures as one likes. Or maybe if I see that the principle works I'll do it all in Poser Python to generate the conversion object on the fly and set all the parameters for the render while I'm at it.

I mean, don't hold your breath. There are lots of things I have in the queue for Antonia, and besides I have those pesky things called a job and a life. But it will definitely happen.

A figure called Eszter had TWO different UV maps in the same figure. It was controlled by a single parameter dial!  You could switch between original mapping and V3 mapping! it was pretty wild and very original looking.  It's not for sale anymore, but the page for it might be up in the marketplace.  The creator of her might be contactable and give you some ideas!

Quote - A figure called Eszter had TWO different UV maps in the same figure. It was controlled by a single parameter dial!  You could switch between original mapping and V3 mapping! it was pretty wild and very original looking.  It's not for sale anymore, but the page for it might be up in the marketplace.  The creator of her might be contactable and give you some ideas!

Interesting! I wonder how it was done. Geometry switching maybe?

The Vendor's name is DigiCalimero!  Looks like he's pulled all his original figures from the market.  Which is a REAL shame!  He had an older gent figure that was pure dynamite.  However--he's still around and might be contactable!

Cool! Thanks for the tip.

i think the geometry switching stuff is explained in the book "Secrets of Figure Creation with Poser 5", i am in the move but i check my copy once i am at home

Here's a link to Eszter's (inactive) product page:

http://www.runtimedna.com/mod/bcs/index.php?ViewProduct=2583

**JOELGLAINE, yeah I need to take a bit of time and upgrade my web pages.

I recently had to update the links but so much going on I didn't do the background.

And I do have to get rid of the flickering stars (even though I like them) because they bother me a lot.
If I look at them more than a few seconds my eyes start that funny twirling and I get dizzy.
It could cause a seizure and I have enough of those!

Hmmm, maybe I'll use some of my own artwork for the background. :)

DPH, a remapped Antonia?
Waiting. :)

Also wating for some great morphs so I can make the gal smile a bit.

odf, I saw that commercial again.
The model has long, dark hair and I swear she looks a lot like you Antonia when she has a tex and dark, long hair.
The commercial is one by Loreal.**

Wee, I'll have to see if I can find that commercial on YouTube or something like that. I'd love to find out who the actress is.

I played with the texture a bit. It looks really nice with VSS, although I need to work on the settings some more. VSS gives a great overall look, but has a tendency to hide texture details. The key thing, though, is to change its default skin tone to something that looks like pergament.

I really love the brows. I think they are perfect for Antonia's face structure. Not quite sure about the eyes yet. It sems like some of the eye textures have a big black ring between the iris and the eyewhite. I haven't done any closeups yet, but I can't imagine that looks good in renders.

More next week. I don't think I'll do a lot of Posering this weekend. :biggrin:

Some morphs for opening and closing the downstairs would also be nice. ;=D
DPH
PS: My post above was worded a bit harshly, but I am tired of always coming across great figures, and not being able to use the textures I already have on them.  Also, I do believe that a uniformity of texture configuration will help enhance the diversity of character poses within a the discrete figure groups.  MY remapped Posette, or my remapped Judy, or even my remapped V4.1 doesn't look the same with say, Danae's Manhattan skin texture, albeit by such means one can establish a family relationship within a render.  If you look through my gallery, you'll find a couple of renders where I posed Victoria 3, PosetteV3, and Vic4.1V3 as three sisters consloling each other after having fallen into the family way.  I did this be texturing all three with the same skin, and using the same Kozuboro hair.

Also, by having Antonia mapped for V3, she'll be able to tap into an already existing large supply of textures.  And too, it'll be much easier for experienced texture artist, or even new ones using the vast amount of V3 tutorials, to create new textures for her, using the tried and true templates that they've already developed before.

I'm sorry I can't seem to find the texture :crying:  Did I miss something?

DPH: Yes, it was a bit harsh. I was tempted to give a snarky retort, but that would have gotten us nowhere. I see your point. Going with established standards has its advantages. But having choices, and being able to experiment with different ways is a good thing, too. So personally I wouldn't mind having two versions of Antonia, one with my mapping and one with the V3 mapping.

Incidentally, what's the copyright situation? Do you have some kind of agreement with DAZ about using the V3 layout for other figures?

Quote - I'm sorry I can't seem to find the texture :crying:  Did I miss something?

BluEcho mailed me a link. As far as I understand, it's not supposed to go public quite yet.

Texture configurations is not subject to copywrite, possibly to patent, but that doesn't exist in this case.  -and inter product compatibility is an established custom in industry.

There are also numerous 3rd party figures already conform to the V3 texture norm: Mayadoll, and F220 to name two.  When I remapped V4.1, there was also the question of whether I would need permission from Daz in order to market the UVs map.  After contacting their support department, I was informed that Daz has no objections to remaps and marketable UVs files, as long as it didn't involve their object mesh geometry files directly.  Since Antonia is not a Daz product, even such restrictions would not apply in this case.

Since then, I have remapped the Dork for M3, and the P4 Catsuit so as to take advantage of V3 2nd skins, I've made a hybrid clone with 'The Girl's head on PosetteV3's body (Rte Encoded), remapped  the P4 Horse to take Mill Horse textures, and have recently remapped V2, whom I'm negotiating with Content Paradise to place in their marketplace there.
DPH

That's good to hear. I agree about the copyright vs. patent thing, but it's always better to have the go ahead directly from the source.

I have a question, or more, about remapping.
If you remap an object, would the user then have to have a re-saved obj to go with it or does the original obj still work?

If odf releases Antonia with his own map and the texture I made with it, how would a second re-map work with it?

I had no problems with his mapping and with a little effort I can always alter my V3 textures to work with it.
But having two maps that exchange back and forth sounds good too. :)

You would need a separate object file for the V3 remap, but object shifting/exchanging can be written into the Cr2 file.  It's already been done with the P4 male and his genitalia, and also with both the P5 male and female with theirs.  So too could an Antonia standard and V3 version be controlled by a button, or even possibly by way of adapting the genitalia switch in the Figure's menu.
DPH

Yep! I'm not completely sure yet how the setup for doing the switcheroo on a complete figure at once would look like, but it's definitely doable.

I have a cr2 for Antonia with sixteen different morphs in it, if anyone wants it!  odf, want to PM with and email address so I can send you a copy?

Quote - I have a cr2 for Antonia with sixteen different morphs in it, if anyone wants it!  odf, want to PM with and email address so I can send you a copy?

Yes, please! You already have my email address by the way. You sent me some .obj files.

(Which - mea culpa - I haven't found time to look at yet.)

I think we need some kind of platform for developers, so that people can upload things to a central repository instead of having to email it around or host it all over the place. Why is there no Sourceforge for 3d content?

Say odf, I have been thinking on a better way of rigging the toes. I know rigging them individually is usually a pain to use cause of all the extra joints, but there's no reason dials couldn't be set up just like for the fingers.............what ya think?