Okay, pardon me for swearing. ;-)

Just curious whether anyone is using both of these. I have used the basic free DS off and on, but not extensively. However, the DS3 Advanced version includes GI, indirect lighting, SSS and full 64 bit support. Even P8 doesn't have the latter two. I'm curious what someone who has used both IDL in P8 and GI in DS3 thinks about the comparative quality of each, as well as render times. (My initial experience with DS was that I wasn't even able to render with the software renderer, a frustration that led me to Poser to begin with. But later on with a new version, I found rendering speeds to be very fast compared to Poser Pro. But now with Poser 8, everything is a different kettle of fish again.)

I'm actually a member of the Platinum Club at DAZ, so I can pay considerably below list price if I want it (though I'd probably wait for another one of their supersales again... I think I could have had it for under $50 when it came out).

I bought Carrara Pro a few months ago, which I regret as the GUI is indecipherable for me, but I can find my way around DS reasonably well. DS3 Advanced probably would have been a much smarter purchase for me, had I waited for it to come out.

Product info for DS 3 Advanced.

It Depends on what you primarily do

DS3 advanced seems to have a more Stable/faster GI Engine & Content Library.
The figure Mixer is a superior feature over poser8

DS3 has the "aniMate" plugin Which makes it Superior to poser if you need to quickly create some character animation.
the morph Follower is a nice feature.
but Poser8 Does have WW.

For the $73 Dollar "platinum club" price
you may be better off with DS in the long run
IMHO.

Cheers

Don't you have to buy all that render stuff and everything else - plugins and such - separately?

No click on the link at the bottom of the OP's post
and read the  DS3A feature list for yourself.

Cheers

I didn't notice there was a link there.

Looks cool, looks better than DS Free.
Is it any easier to use Poser content in it? Last time I tried DS I had such a bitch of a time trying to figure out how to add my own content I just said to hell with it.

I am Still on DS 2.3x as My macbook does not meet the open GL requirement for DS3
but I find it quite easy to access my poser runtime in DS.

But I personally only use DS only for the
aniMate+ plugin for character animation
which I can export  to animated pose files
I use Cinema 4D R11 Studio with interposer pro® For my actual renders and other CG work.

Cheers.

"Morph Follower - This feature allows you to add support for new figures in old clothing by automatically creating new morphs to fit an unsupported shape. (Based on technology by EvilInnocence)" - so they've apparently incorporated Crossdresser  which would be the equivalent of P8 including WW.

"Map Transfer - This allows you to convert a texture from one figure's UV's so they can be used on another figure's UV's." - I didn't know they had built in texture conversion as well.

On the renderers, Daz "seems" to be using the stock 3Delight engine and picking and choosing what functionality to expose inside DS. I thought that Poser  was using Pixels3D's Tempest engine as Firefly but recent posts state that Stewer wrote the P8 renderer so I'm confused. Maybe they bought the source and he's modifying it but it sounds more like a new engine.
 

In some ways, it almost looks like DS3 Advanced is a much better deal than their free version, unless you're really a casual user and don't dig into many features at all. There are quite a few relatively expensive plugins there. With the free version, it can actually get pretty expensive.

Meh. I'll probably buy it when it goes back on sale. I'd kinda like to have it for doing promos in DS when my characters start coming out.

It is pretty funny that DS already supports native 64 bit and Poser doesn't.

I personally see D/S surpassing poser soon
right now DS dynamic cloth system is its weakest area as well as no Dynamic Hair but nether of these seem to be a Deal breaker for the majority of users.
looking at how posers Dynamic hair has not even put a Dent in the Transmap hair market.

I think it would'nt hurt for a PC member like yourself
 to try DS3 Advanced.

Cheers
 

:)

Be nice to Carrara.  :)
I personally feel the GUI in Carrara 7 is very easy to use.
But, I've been using Carrara since it was known as Ray Dream Studio back in 1998 I think. ;)

I'm also considering picking up DAZ Studio Advanced rather than Poser 8.
Kinda sad for me since I've been using Poser since version 2.

Clint

I find it hard to be nice to Carrara. I know it produces great stuff, but I couldn't do the first thing in it. Very unintuitive to me. Longtime users of course will have a different perspective. But for me it feels like nothing else at all.

Yea - I agree there - that it has its own unique GUI.

I appreciate you starting this discussion since I'm also thinking about DAZ Studio Advanced.

:)

Personally I think that when you're used  to one particulair GUI, it's rather hard to learn and to appreciate another one. From both sides: poser as well Daz|studio users I hear complaints about the terrible GUI of the "other" application. As a poser I find it difficult to use DS, because of the GUI, although I have the opinion that DS offers a lot valuable features that Poser doesn't have like the puppeteer module, which is great for making animations or in between poses. Both applications have  a property editor, but the looks and feels are quite different: Poser has dials and DS has sliders. It are just those little things that make someone love or hate a program. I have the same problem with autocad and Rhino: Rhino is by origin a autocad-clone, and  sometimes I use those two programs simultaneously, but when I switch from the one to other, I sometimes get confused by the different behaviour of their GUI's (right-or middle mouse clicks by example)

But to stay one topic: the main reason I don't drop poser is the dynamic clothing, I use it very often, for all kinds of purpose, not only clothes but also drapes and sheets, (look at my dynamic chairs in my freebie section) Just when there will be an easy (and cheap) way to make dynamic clothes for DS I would consider to turn to the dark side. (BTW 64bit dynamic clothing is still not supported AFAIK)

Rigging figures on the other hand is a complete different story: I bought the advanced figure setup for DS, and like others I impressed about the possibilities. I haven't used the new Poser8 setup-room yet, but there have to be some mayor changes to beat the DS rigging plug-in.

considering rendering and material setup: The new DS advanced material editor is just as if not more complex than the poser materialroom, so I haven't had the time to dig in the more advanced and esoteric features like subsurfacescattering and global illumination. to compair it with poser.

I think that DS-advanced has come very close to poser, but the new poser 8 update has given me enough reason to keep using it. DS has a lot of new features and possibilities, but it will take a long time before I have learned to use it with the same easyness I use Poser.

best regards,

Bopper.

Thanks Bopper!

Clint

Quote -
On the renderers, Daz "seems" to be using the stock 3Delight engine and picking and choosing what functionality to expose inside DS.
 

Sorta. Since D|S isn't FOSS/GPL, they have to license the engine and modify it to taste, in accordance with the features they licensed, IIRC (been too damn long, so don't take the whole thing as gospel). The calls to the engine are close enough though so that you can actually use D|S with a stock 3Delight render engine and script-in a lot of the extra 'missing' functionality to that stock engine if you'd like.

==

Quote - Personally I think that when you're used  to one particulair GUI, it's rather hard to learn and to appreciate another one.

Not really... I'm typing this on OSX. I use Windows at work. Windows 7 has recently gotten a lot like OSX in UI functionality, just as Poser 8 looks like it has recently gotten a lot of D|S functionality (P8 and D|S both point to Modo as their UI muse, so if you're cozy with that, you're ahead of everyone else).

Quote - But to stay one topic: the main reason I don't drop poser is the dynamic clothing

Dunno... Dynamic clothing/hair/whatever I couldn't give a flying (insert noun here) about. Too slow and clunky for my taste. OTOH, There are times when I prefer to use Poser (though joint editing is no longer one of them...)

*Dunno... Dynamic clothing/hair/whatever I couldn't give a flying (insert noun here) about. Too slow and clunky for my taste.

*It needs some time, but you can get great results of it that you can't get with conforming clothes. The folds in skirts and dresses are looking much more relalistic.
Especially when you use hybrid (both conforming and dynamic) clothing, which have the good sides of both of them. I hate the handles in conforming dresses, they never go the way I want them.

regards,

Bopper.

I've tried both programs and i'm still not sure if we can compare them.

I mean, P8 use Indirect Lighting, DS3Adv has it too, though i haven't been able to use it because of the looonng render times with IDL in DS.
Butn DS3Adv has GI which does directional shadows. It's a plus as P8 can't.
The render times using GI are more than acceptable, faster than P8 IDL in fact. The 64 bits UI in DS is super stable and very responsive. The last three renders in my gallery are DS3adv renders and you can see DS made a good step beyond realism.

On the other side, i like P8 IDL too. Longer render times, yes, but different results. Also, it's brand new, expect some perfecting in near future.

Thanks for your comments, Vince. How is the artifacting compared to Poser? Is raytracing pretty reliable without artifacts?

If your talking about artifacts using GI in DS3Adv, as you have control over biais parameter, you can deal it without any problem :) I find raytracing in DS excellent. I hope some more parameters will be added to the IDL system in P8 in the future.

Quote - I've tried both programs and i'm still not sure if we can compare them.

Butn DS3Adv has GI which does directional shadows. It's a plus as P8 can't.
The render times using GI are more than acceptable, faster than P8 IDL in fact. The 64 bits UI in DS is super stable and very responsive. The last three renders in my gallery are DS3adv renders and you can see DS made a good step beyond realism.

Hi Vince I just Checked your gallery
and those DS3 GI Renders Are far and Away better than any Image I have Seen users post from the P8 Render Engine.

Cheers

Wait till i post some P8 renders ;)

This is also DS3 Advanced: www-cache.daz3d.com/sections/galleries/artwork/292/46307.jpg

Well, just the girl, I presume. But nice work.

Hey Peng, you old Tux lover - what's your take on Win 7? I've just started using RealBasic so I may have to install Ubuntu to see if I can get an app running on it.

"The calls to the engine are close enough though so that you can actually use D|S with a stock 3Delight render engine."  Yeah, someone has an app for DS that supposedly will allow transparent rendering on stock 3DL, one or two of the free engines and PRMan.

The main stumbling block for Poser users is indeed the UI. It's not arcane or difficult (try ZBrush or Blender), just different to what people are used to. It's much easier to switch to a different browser, word processor or probably even an OS as Peng says than a different 3D application. Only practice will overcome that. I'd say devote a month to using DS and avoid Poser as much as possible. It takes time to overcome the hand/eye/brain habits developed over years. Even if you plan to use both programs, you need to take the time to learn DS, and it's difficult to do that in fits and spurts. Once you're comfortable with it, your old Poser skills will still be there, like knowing two languages and you can switch back and forth.

I think that many people try on or the other of the two programs for a few days or even a few hours here and there and conclude that it's too weird and go back to what they're comfortable with. It's like going back to your ex after the first awkward date with someone new. Of course in 3D, polygamy is a good thing - not to knock those in happy ploygamist relationships of another nature -:)

Quote - Hey Peng, you old Tux lover - what's your take on Win 7? I've just started using RealBasic so I may have to install Ubuntu to see if I can get an app running on it.

Believe it or not, I've been using it at work for awhile now (my PHB's at the new Post-Intel job drank the koolaid and asked for seconds... heh.)

It is more merciful on system resources than Vista, looks and smells a lot like a blend of OSX and KDE, but it does have some fairly neat little features. If you're doing Windows-only, it would be a toss-up between it and XP, IMHO (most the tools in CG/3D land are still quite happy with XP, and XP is still easier on resources, so...)

Quote - "The calls to the engine are close enough though so that you can actually use D|S with a stock 3Delight render engine."  Yeah, someone has an app for DS that supposedly will allow transparent rendering on stock 3DL, one or two of the free engines and PRMan.

Cool! I'll have to hunt that down... been doing it the hard way for quite awhile now.

Quote - The main stumbling block for Poser users is indeed the UI. It's not arcane or difficult (try ZBrush or Blender), just different to what people are used to.

Yep. Personally, though I don't have it, I like that Poser is moving in the same direction - but I've always harbored a massive disgust for the works of Mr. Krause (his heart was in the right place, but his code is a nightmare...)

Here you go. I haven't tired it but it sounds interesting for those who the old days would have made ASCII art in hand coded Z80 assembler.

Renderizer DAZ Studio Plugin
"Support for commercial Pixar Photorealistic Renderman (PRMAN) renderer (https://renderman.pixar.com) version 13.5 or higher.
Support for 3Delight renderer (http://www.3delight.com) version 7.0 or higher. The free 3Delight version is also supported.
Support for free Pixie renderer (http://www.renderpixie.com) version 2.2.3 or higher.
Other renderman compliant renderers can be added if compatible"

www.daz3d.com/i/3d-models/rendering/renderizer-daz-studio

I  imagine Pixar will be selling a lot more licenses now :-)

"his heart was in the right place, but his code is a nightmare..."

Art follows it's own path, even if it is an infinite loop. I'm old fashioned enough to say 'what were you thinking SM, making your UI a browser control hosted Flex/Flash app?' Yeah, it's cross-platform and kool kidz but really, browsers should be reserved for their true purpose - accessing pr0n.

Why does DS insist on hiding my installed content behind a hundred button presses that lead to dead ends?

"Why does DS insist on hiding my installed content behind a hundred button presses that lead to dead ends?"

Not sure but possibly related to why Megan Fox hasn't shown up at my doorstep with a stripper pole and a kilo of weed. I've only used DS with a single (microscopic by today's apparent standards) runtime linked with no problems. Some of the DS specific stuff a takes a little looking maybe but the Poser stuff no.

 First I must admit I haven't used DS since.. what.. 2.0 or something.. ages ago, because I didn't like feeling like a stupid noob every time I had to as much as adjust an eyecolour L

But one thing I SORELY missed every time I gave DS a chance was Poser's Material Room. I really don't know why it isn't MUCH more applauded. In Poser, you can make all sorts of nifty materials without any maps or other clunkyness. And while I don't KNOW if DS has got an equivalent to that by now, it is what has been holding me away from DS. GI or not, if I can't make a decent wall/rug/window/whatever in the program.. then no thanks.

Quote -

But one thing I SORELY missed every time I gave DS a chance was Poser's Material Room. I really don't know why it isn't MUCH more applauded. In Poser,  DS. GI or not, if I can't make a decent wall/rug/window/whatever in the program.. then no thanks.

Because only advanced poser users like yourself are  willing to delve into a node based Shader system.
the great majority of the user base is more comfortable with Click & apply mat poses.
But at any rate DS3 Has a node based shader mixing system that rival posers.
SHADER MIXER IN DS

Cheers

Quote - It Depends on what you primarily do

DS3 advanced seems to have a more Stable/faster GI Engine & Content Library.
The figure Mixer is a superior feature over poser8

DS3 has the "aniMate" plugin Which makes it Superior to poser if you need to quickly create some character animation.
the morph Follower is a nice feature.
but Poser8 Does have WW.

For the $73 Dollar "platinum club" price
you may be better off with DS in the long run
IMHO.

I admit that I barely know D/S. Heh, I can't even find my content library much less figure out how to put anything else in it.

Plus, some of D/S's features don't even work on a Mac. And the fact that they're okay with releasing it like that speaks volumes to me as a Mac owner. D/S will NEVER be my program of choice.

Yeah, that's what I had going on.
Seems to me though I once defeated DS's attempts to thwart me by using the "collect scene inventory" python script in Poser to save everything to one folder and then opening the pz3 in DS and browsing to that folder when it whined about not knowing where stuff was.

Quote -

I admit that I barely know D/S. Heh, I can't even find my content library much less figure out how to put anything else in it.

Plus, some of D/S's features don't even work on a Mac. And the fact that they're okay with releasing it like that speaks volumes to me as a Mac owner. D/S will NEVER be my program of choice.

Well the biggest features  that are NOT  OSX Compatible are 64 bit version of the plugin and the  DS Cloth system.
 they say the 64 bit compatibility is coming soon
but IMHO their "Cloth" system is a very limited as you can only use  specially built
cloth items released by them  and cannot "Clothify  your own models& meshes.
which makes  it useless in my opinion .

Not that I care either way as I use the world class cloth engine in Maxon Cinema4D R11.

Cheers

I have them both, and perhaps it is because I now know Poser so much better, but I run into dead ends all the time with DS3A.

The meshes on clothing breaks up every time I pose a character.  When I ask what I'm doing wrong I get "that happens sometimes in DS3A".

I find that clothes bulge funny in DS3A, again, "that happens sometimes"

I couldn't get a good alpha from DS3A, the characters had unworkable halos.  "that happens sometimes".

As far as the shader goes, I'm going to go with trekkiegrrrl, I sorely miss the material room.  Yes the shader mixer is .... ok, but you can only modify the DS basic shader.  So essentially, you're starting from scratch building the nodes from there.  It would be nice if you could start with, say, UberSurface and add an occlusion node.  I'm sure this will change in the future, and would change if I used it more and got used to it, but ... wow, that seems like alot of work to just add an occlusion node.

Another thing I miss that no one seems to rave about is the ease of comparing renders in Poser.  You have to open a new window in DS3A, and if you close the application, there isn't a cache.

I don't understand the scaling issues that Freak 4 has, and why Poser 8 doesn't work properly with them.  I wish I understood what was wrong with Poser there.

I do like DS3A, and I'm trying to use it some.

Indi. 

I have found that by  occasionally saying yes to this Dialog at startup D/S finds All My content.

Cheers

Well thanks wolf, maybe I'll check it out again one day. It's been a long while since the last time, probably at least a year.

Quote -

I don't understand the scaling issues that Freak 4 has, and why Poser 8 doesn't work properly with them.  I wish I understood what was wrong with Poser there.

Indi. 

They did publish a Disclaimer about the new "Freak 4" not being fully compatible with poser.
but honestly he is made for use in D/S so im not surprised.

Cheers

Quote - > Quote -

I don't understand the scaling issues that Freak 4 has, and why Poser 8 doesn't work properly with them.  I wish I understood what was wrong with Poser there.

Indi. 

They did publish a Disclaimer about the new "Freak 4" not being fully compatible with poser.
but honestly he is made for use in D/S so im not surprised.

Cheers

Yes, I know about the disclaimer.  I was also part of the ninja squad "testing" freak 4.  They told us numerous times that there were these "scaling issues" within Poser.  I still would like to fully understand what those are so I can avoid them.

Indi.

Quote - They did publish a Disclaimer about the new "Freak 4" not being fully compatible with poser.
but honestly he is made for use in D/S so im not surprised.

Cheers

That's not good to hear as I was planning to get it at some point, now I don't think I'll bother at all unless they fix the Poser compatibility problems & I don't see it as a Smith Micro Poser problem, if Daz are selling something that's supposed to work in Poser THEY (daz) should make it work.

Well the reality is that he DAZ $$content market$$ seems to be doing quite well
with its D/S user base in fact thats why DAZ studio was created in the first place.
So Exclusive poser users need to accept that reality.

The DAZ business model  is based on Selling content optimized for DAZ studio ,thats why there will always be a FREE base version of D/S and  any side income they may be getting from exclusive poser loyalists is just extra
that they, ( DAZ inc), are clearly prepared to live without.

Cheers

why should they? the problem is in the scaling functions, Poser is built on old code. if it does not scale properly it is up to the app's coding/development team to rewrite the code that deals with scaling to bring it up to modern software standards.
how many Poser content vendors made the effort to optimise their products for use in DS?
has Smith Micro made sure that their figures work properly in Studio?

Quote - > Quote - They did publish a Disclaimer about the new "Freak 4" not being fully compatible with poser.

but honestly he is made for use in D/S so im not surprised.

Cheers

That's not good to hear as I was planning to get it at some point, now I don't think I'll bother at all unless they fix the Poser compatibility problems & I don't see it as a Smith Micro Poser problem, if Daz are selling something that's supposed to work in Poser THEY (daz) should make it work.

They won't fix it.  Smith Micro probably will fix their scaling issues, (whatever that means).
 I swear I don't get it though.  I had no issues at all with Freak 4 in Poser.  Maybe it's just when you want him to be a giant compared to V4 and M4, he won't grow.  ...??... 

Indi.

Quote - why should they? the problem is in the scaling functions, Poser is built on old code. ......
....has Smith Micro made sure that their figures work properly in Studio?

I dont know if they have.. nor do I care.
My point is that Those who Decide to Cling heavily
to poser forever, for whatever reason, will have to Face the reality that one of the top makers of poser content( DAZ inc) is eventually leaving poser behind.
I used poser since "Fractal Design" Poser2 I was NEVER pleased with its render engine and was always looking for a way to get my poser content into other apps.
with the advent of INTERPOSER PRO for Maxon Cinema4D

Any new version of poser after version 6 became utterly moot to me as all I need is a properly structured runtime  to get fully functional poser figures assets working within C4D with its Advanced Render engine.
and the "Animate+ "non-linear  character animation plugin for DS leaves posers Character animation tools  in the long ignored Dust of the previous century where it still resides
It seems most Die hard poser users dont Care about advanced render  features Like GI,SSS, Usable Toon shading or Character animation etc. and thats perfectly fine.

But DAZ is obviously moving forward in its development on all fronts And I see no logical reason for DAZ to let a trivial matter like  poser "Compatibility" impede its progress.

Cheers

Quote - > Quote - why should they? the problem is in the scaling functions, Poser is built on old code. ......

....has Smith Micro made sure that their figures work properly in Studio?

I dont know if they have.. nor do I care.
My point is that Those who Decide to Cling heavily
to poser forever, for whatever reason, will have to Face the reality that one of the top makers of poser content( DAZ inc) is eventually leaving poser behind.
I used poser since "Fractal Design" Poser2 I was NEVER pleased with its render engine and was always looking for a way to get my poser content into other apps.
with the advent of INTERPOSER PRO for Maxon Cinema4D

Any new version of poser after version 6 became utterly moot to me as all I need is a properly structured runtime  to get fully functional poser figures assets working within C4D with its Advanced Render engine.
and the "Animate+ "non-linear  character animation plugin for DS leaves posers Character animation tools  in the long ignored Dust of the previous century where it still resides
It seems most Die hard poser users dont Care about advanced render  features Like GI,SSS, Usable Toon shading or Character animation etc. and thats perfectly fine.

But DAZ is obviously moving forward in its development on all fronts And I see no logical reason for DAZ to let a trivial matter like  poser "Compatibility" impede its progress.

Cheers

I wouldn't write Poser off as an also ran just yet, my online friend. the fact is DS is still most DAZ centric while the rest of the Poser community is Poser oriented. Any little crevices and gaps that DAZ is willing to leave open can and will surely be filled by third party operators who would like nothing more than an opportunity to dethrone DAZ.

Granted, DAZ has some of the best figures out there, but not the only figures out there (Hello Antonia). 

[quote

I wouldn't write Poser off as an also ran just yet, my online friend. the fact is DS is still most DAZ centric while the rest of the Poser community is Poser oriented. Any little crevices and gaps that DAZ is willing to leave open can and will surely be filled by third party operators who would like nothing more than an opportunity to dethrone DAZ.

Granted, DAZ has some of the best figures out there, but not the only figures out there (Hello Antonia). 

Hi I am not "writing off" poser
there are still people using poser 4
I am pointing out that if poser disappeared today it would have very little Effect on the DAZ business model as they have successfully built their addicted/loyal DAZ content user base around Daz studio.
as far as a third party figure makers "dethroning"
Daz well I doubt we will see than any time soon as long as DAZ Offers a Free viable Male&Female and free program in which to render them and tons of club discounted content and other promotional schemes.

Cheers

I'd get Poser, but that's just me. :-)

If Poser disappeared tomorrow, how long do you think it would be before DAZ stopped giving away D/S for free? Heck, they've pretty much already stopped. Only the basic renderer is free now. Everything else cost money.

I'd probably just hold on to whatever version of Poser I had left. Short of that, I'd probably just quit. As it is I hardly buy anything from DAZ anymore. The Platinum Club membership is actually starting to cost me money, because I so rarely buy anything anymore. Most of my content money for this year has been with Renderosity, CP and Poserworld.

Quote - If Poser disappeared tomorrow, how long do you think it would be before DAZ stopped giving away D/S for free? Heck, they've pretty much already stopped. Only the basic renderer is free now. Everything else cost money.

Sorry but I see no basis for your assumption.
The base D/S program will always be free
because it gets people hooked on $buying content$$ for it
just like Mikey & V-chick will always have a free base version.

Look at how many hopeful  commercial"Challengers" to the dominance of  Mikey&V-chick, have come along, made a little noise in the forums and quickly disappeared in the obscure wasteland  of minimal to ZERO third party support. and  yet Mikey& V-chick are still FREE to start.
I am no fan of the Daz figure line as I dont do humans much anyway.
But its Clearly an effective business model
especially for NEW customers to get started right way with ZERO initial monetary outlay and just like poser there will always be DAZ  users who are fine with a basic render engine and Canned light sets.. both free &Bought from DAZ and third parties .

Cheers

I doubt that either one is going away in the forseeable future. If the economy hasn't killed 'em by now, they'll survive. Even is SM follows the usual course and drops Poser after a version or two, someone else will buy it and carry on. I'm also dubious of the notion that Daz has enough mindless thralls using DS to get too far away from Poser. And Wolf, while I appreciate your learned and erudite commentary (seriously not being sarcastic there), your thinly veiled contempt for gets a little old after the fourth or fifth serving. We get the picture you've happy with your arrangement, no need to go all Marie Antoinette on the peasants.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - They did publish a Disclaimer about the new "Freak 4" not being fully compatible with poser.

but honestly he is made for use in D/S so im not surprised.

Cheers

That's not good to hear as I was planning to get it at some point, now I don't think I'll bother at all unless they fix the Poser compatibility problems & I don't see it as a Smith Micro Poser problem, if Daz are selling something that's supposed to work in Poser THEY (daz) should make it work.

They won't fix it.  Smith Micro probably will fix their scaling issues, (whatever that means).
 I swear I don't get it though.  I had no issues at all with Freak 4 in Poser.  Maybe it's just when you want him to be a giant compared to V4 and M4, he won't grow.  ...??... 

Indi.

The problem is that while poser will scale the base figure ok, it has a problem scaling conformers, it basically ignores the centerpoint of joints in the scaling process so when you scale the figure up while it also scales the clothing it leaves the centerpoint where it was at the original scale so go to bend a joint and the clothing joint bends in a totally different place than it should. This is not something that DAZ can fix in the figure it is only something that the makers of poser can fix in their program, and if they do it will help not only with the freak 4 but will allow all figures to be scaled and have their clothing scale with them.

I strongly suspect this is a manifestation of the same rigging bug that shows up in SP3's feet e.g.  Steve Cooper said that he wants to get this fixed, I'm hoping it gets done in the next SR.  I don't know if they'll duplicate the fix in older versions of Poser than 8 though.

Quote - I'm also dubious of the notion that Daz has enough mindless thralls using DS to get too far away from Poser. And Wolf, while I appreciate your learned and erudite commentary (seriously not being sarcastic there), your thinly veiled contempt for gets a little old after the fourth or fifth serving. .

"Mindless thralls"??
I would not call them that they are loyal customers who NEVER
actually used poser and have no stake in its future
My opinion as to why " DAZ Freak4 is not fully functional in poser, is based on what can easily be observed in the DAZ forums & commercial efforts.
Poser and its users are not commercially  important to DAZ inc .,the commercial enterprise,  as they have their own Market paradigm now.
but if stating the obvious make me an elitist in your eyes then....oh well

Cheers