Thank you wcbncal..  This is precisely the information I was seeking when I started this thread..

I'm using Poser 6 now, I'm happy with it. Most of the changes from what I hear in Posers 7 & 8 were more content, a few extra shader options, and a few extension additions. I think people who early adopt (habitually) do pay way too much, and they kinda mess it up for the rest of us to - because the available new (free and pay) content that works well - or just plain WORKS - with whatever version you CURRENTLY have quickly shrinks and soon disappears because everybody who has money to flush down the crapper jumps on the trendy bandwagon - leaving the limited income guys using older versions in a clinch and basically screwed. Thank God most Poser 4 content will work fine on 6 will a little codjolling, but there's no gaurantee that Smith Micro (who in my opinion trashed Content Paradise to smithereens) won't go all dork on us and suddenly pull a new version of Poser out of there corporate butts that won't be able to use ANY past Poser content, and the more frequently people snap up new versions fresh off the drawing board because they have less patience than someone who's gotta pee real bad, the closer that nightmare day might creep upon the rest of us who have enough grey matter to know better - SNAPPITTY SNAP SNAP bros and sisses!!!!
Wait - and you'll pay less and preserve the available content base - snap it up quick - and you have more bugs to deal with - and you'll be a party pooper for everybody else. Case closed.
I can remember a time when Content Paradise, 3DCommune, and RUNTIMEDNA were FAR more community based, and far less profit margin. I think SHARECG is one of the last true community based CGI sites out there, but who knows how long it'll be until it goes the way of the others, and turns into a dump where the freebies suck and become far fewer, you have to give your life story to register, and the community memberships shrink to only a fraction of what they were. Now THERE'S the elephant in the room that nobody likes to talk about!!!

OK, firstly if you could separate your post in to paragraphs next time that would be nice. I have been here for a long time. Though it states that I have been a member since 2000, I have actually been here much longer and had to create a new account. I disagree with you on the whole community issue, at least as it concerns R'osity. I think, if you go over to Daz's forums you'll see that they are a community as well. People talking about the pertinent issues with each other and together attempting to resolve said issues, how is that not community?

Another thing, These companies are going to move forward no matter what. Nobody is going to support Poser 6 forever. The business market fluctuates like a nightmare, anyway. CG is a business, it will leave you in the dust, eventually. These people at Smith Micro had new ideas and they intended on implementing them. they did this before any point of sale. Poser 8 was going to happen. They weren't just going to make it and then sit on it. They, like any other business, are going to push it, and push it even to the point of pushing it down our throats because if they don't they lose money. Poser 8 was going to happen and become the priority over all other versions.

Now, I do agree with you on several points. The free items used to be better because I think that designers wanted to show others what they could do. Now it seems that the free stuff sections is for the people that have discovered the wonder of Photoshop. I mean, how many texture packs can be made before someone is duplicating another's work. There are those who are creating very nice stuff like 3-D-C and his sci fi corridor kits. But, how many sexy Vicky poses can you possibly have. There are hardly any poses for mike4 and of those for Vicky4, there almost all seductive. It doesn't speak well of Renderosity to have this V4 fetishism occurring. The market is flooded with this sort of thing while other, more interesting concepts are being ignored.

Now the other side of this argument is that sex sells. the problem is that a lot of the people who have argued that to ME in the past haven't tried to sell anything else but sex, so how would they even know what sells. There is some phenomenal talent out there being wasted on sex poses and corsetry. So, is the creativity in the community stalled? I think so. However, as long as it is a community there is a chance that things will change for the better. With all of this said, Smith Micro and Poser 8 has nothing to do with the absence of community. If the community here has been affected, then it is a reality that only we can be held accountable for. We are the community and it seems that, though difficulties sometimes occur, we are still speaking to one another. Let's just all try to do it with a little common respect.

Quote - I'm using Poser 6 now, I'm happy with it. Most of the changes from what I hear in Posers 7 & 8 were more content, a few extra shader options, and a few extension additions.

Not sure what your sources are, but the changes in Poser 8 are far more than that. Lighting enhancements, rigging enhancements, Wardrobe Wizard built in, Dependent Parameters editor, revised library/content system, customizable interface, and more.

Quote - I think people who early adopt (habitually) do pay way too much, and they kinda mess it up for the rest of us to - because the available new (free and pay) content that works well - or just plain WORKS - with whatever version you CURRENTLY have quickly shrinks and soon disappears because everybody who has money to flush down the crapper jumps on the trendy bandwagon - leaving the limited income guys using older versions in a clinch and basically screwed. 

I'm a bit confused here. Older content works just fine in the newer versions ... and if it doesn't it's not that hard to change it so that it does work.

As for newer content not working in OLDER versions, I can't think of ANY program that is "forward compatible"  ... how could they be?  Can you open files created in Photoshop CS4 in Photoshop 5.5 which was released 10 years ago?   Or can you open a file created in Word 2007 in Word 97? I don't think so.

The newer content is created to take advantage of the newer features in the software - and from Poser 4 to Poser 7 the main difference was in materials. With Poser 8 there are new rigging features that you might eventually see in newer content.  But because it takes time to provide support for "legacy" versions of Poser, it becomes less and less appealing to support older versions. It's not practical do so if you want to keep the content free or affordable for the users.

Quote - Thank God most Poser 4 content will work fine on 6 will a little codjolling, but there's no gaurantee that Smith Micro (who in my opinion trashed Content Paradise to smithereens) won't go all dork on us and suddenly pull a new version of Poser out of there corporate butts that won't be able to use ANY past Poser content, and the more frequently people snap up new versions fresh off the drawing board because they have less patience than someone who's gotta pee real bad, the closer that nightmare day might creep upon the rest of us who have enough grey matter to know better - SNAPPITTY SNAP SNAP bros and sisses!!!!

So what you're saying is that there should be no advances in the software at all so that it will continue to support the features found in Poser 4, which was released ten years ago?

Poser 4 content will still work in Poser 8 with a little codjoling - but when going the OTHER way and getting newer content to work in Poser 4, you're also talking having to deal with the memory limitations that Poser 4 had.  So it's becoming a bit unreasonable to expect that today's content will still work in Poser 4 ... higher resolution meshes, higher resolution textures, and so on are getting to be too much for Poser 4 to handle.  And truthfully, the quality of content 10 years ago is nowhere near the quality of today's content, a lot of that having to do with the fact that the newer versions have more POWER.

Quote - Wait - and you'll pay less and preserve the available content base

How does waiting for a service release preserve the available content base?

Quote - snap it up quick - and you have more bugs to deal with - and you'll be a party pooper for everybody else. Case closed.

I don't mind dealing with bugs. Pretty much every software program I've purchased has them initially, Poser is no different in that regard.

Well put. Every point a solid truth. I bought Poser 8 for the speed. For me, rendering power and speed is everything. Before, It was a procedure of create in Poser and export to Carrara. I don't have to do that any longer. I can crank out my projects much faster now, even when Poser 8 screws something up and I have to fix the issue, the project time spent is still much quicker than before. My only issue with Poser 8 is the unrendered bucket artifact bug that occurs randomly during the animation process. However, it is easy to clean up post render.

Also, if you go in to the Market Place here you will see that the requirements listed for Poser items are usually Poser 5 and up. So I don't understand what unavailability Mugsey is speaking of. If you are using Poser 6 you are only being deprived of the Poser 8 core items.

Quote - I think SHARECG is one of the last true community based CGI sites out there, but who knows how long it'll be until it goes the way of the others, and turns into a dump where the freebies suck and become far fewer....

ShareCG is a true community? Since when?

Does ShareCG have forums? That's an honest question - I don't know...lol.

Of course I can go over and look for myself ;o).

edit: why yes, yes it does. Shows ya how much I get around...lol.

Laurie

Yes it does and when last I checked they were deader than a graveyard on Halloween!

Smith Micro does try to get as much out of its loyal user base as it can.  When the Anime Studio Pro release came out the were asking $160 for new purchases "limited time" deal.  They were asking $120 for upgrades for previous Pro users.  I still haven't upgraded.

I not sure if I should upgrade to 8 or wait til Pro II gets released.

Quote -
I made that mistake with Vue 4 and won't make it again ;o).

Yeah, no doubt. I remember that, since I was right up there too, ordering it the day it was released, I think.
There were at least 22 incremental update patches to Vue 4 over the next half a year or so. 22!
And you know, they never did get everything fixed. That's where I totally lost interest in Vue, and apparently from all I've read elsewhere, e-on has become somewhat infamous for really buggy software that never gets fixed.
I guess once your software has been used in a few really high profile big screen successful movies, you become more important than you actually are, and customers no longer matter. From all I've read, Vue buyers these days are basically beta testers, paying thousands for broken versions that might get fixed for the next release, which they have to pay for if they want it...

Yeah, I know, this is  Poser 8 thread, but I really don't have anything to say about that. ;-)

From what I have been reading Poser 8 is still pretty buggy so I guess there is no reason not to wait for Poser Pro II to be released and decide on upgrading then.

Sometimes good things come to those who wait. Because I am poor as well as cheap I had to wait on upgrading from Poser 5 to Poser 6. And I was glad I'd done so too because of the deal I got.So me personally I'll probably wait until Poser 15 is out and they're selling Poser 8 for 30.00 bucks or so too, before upgrading to it. Of course this then means I'm always "behind the times" but thats a good thing too. It's forced me to find new ways of doing things to achieve the same results others get, like doing lighting in Photoshop etc..... :lol:

Thanks for the list too by the way stepson, I'll be sure to read those before I do upgrade if ever.....

Yeah, its always good to stay 7 versions behind the current to achieve the greatest possible price break.

Why not? You're not missing much with Poser at all. Going from Poser 4 to 5 was mind blowing..... almost something completely new, worth the money (after all the bugs were worked out). Going from 5 to 6 wasn't a full upgrade, more like Pose 5.5. Going from P6 to P7 still puzzles me..... hardly anything new at all, more like a service release.... Poser 5.6. Going from P7 to P8 , even if you combine all the 'new' features, couldn't be called a full new version at all, it's again an in between 0.5 release. As far as I see it....... going from Poser 5 to Poser 8 is really going from Poser 5 to Poser 6 and worth the money.

In the case of Poser it's worth skipping a few versions, you will not really miss out that much if you skip a version or two. I you can get by with what you have, then waiting is a good option.

But don't wait to long with upgrading..... Poser's user base is decreasing, since the competition is giving more bang for your money. Oh, wait, they're not asking any money for it at all..... If Poser keeps on putting out these mediocre releases, then there may not be a large enough user base left to support a new half done version.

Personally I'm done with buying half baked Poser releases, from now on I'll stick to P8, pass the next version(s) and keep an eye on D/S, a much more interesting development. I wasn't even planning on getting P8, but the offer made was too good to pass. But as with previous releases it left me kind of unimpressed. The WOW P5 release feeling has long gone and never came back with releases that followed.

Heh the "Wow Poser 5" feeling was very quickly overpowered by the "OMG WHAT A BUGGY PoS" - Poser 5 was, regardless )or perhaps because of...) all the new features close to useless most of the time for so many people that the recent Poser 8 problems seems insignificant.

PERSONALLY I must have some sort of Poser Guardian Angel sitting on my shoulder, because I've never had any major problems with new versions - but to say that nothing happened since Poser 5 tells me.. well... no. I won't go there. 

WHY is it so hard to believe/understand that Poser 8 is for a great part a TOTAL CORE REWRITE? This is why it can be FASTER than its predecessors. This is why the renderer is faster. This is why the library has changed. It's because, for once, it is a REWRITE, not just clamping new things on the old Poser 4 engine.

So naturally there will be a relatively larger amount of bugs in this release. It's like a new program.

And yes. Some people have big problems with Poser 8. I feel sorry for them. But the majority of users do NOT have a lot of problems. We're just not as vocal about it - quite naturally. The people who have problems, seek out forums for a solution. The ones who does not have problems are busy making pictures with their new toy instead.

So why am I here so much you may ask? Well because I'm here while Poser is rendering. And here during work hours where I can get online from my trains but not play with Poser (My netbook is good but not really suited for Poser although it runs on it - besides... I'm supposed to be checking tickets and whatnot when at work L) But I'm not here because my Poser 8 doesn't work. Because.. it does!

Quote - Why not? You're not missing much with Poser at all. Going from Poser 4 to 5 was mind blowing..... almost something completely new, worth the money (after all the bugs were worked out). Going from 5 to 6 wasn't a full upgrade, more like Pose 5.5. Going from P6 to P7 still puzzles me..... hardly anything new at all, more like a service release.... Poser 5.6. Going from P7 to P8 , even if you combine all the 'new' features, couldn't be called a full new version at all, it's again an in between 0.5 release. As far as I see it....... going from Poser 5 to Poser 8 is really going from Poser 5 to Poser 6 and worth the money.

In the case of Poser it's worth skipping a few versions, you will not really miss out that much if you skip a version or two. I you can get by with what you have, then waiting is a good option.

But don't wait to long with upgrading..... Poser's user base is decreasing, since the competition is giving more bang for your money. Oh, wait, they're not asking any money for it at all..... If Poser keeps on putting out these mediocre releases, then there may not be a large enough user base left to support a new half done version.

Personally I'm done with buying half baked Poser releases, from now on I'll stick to P8, pass the next version(s) and keep an eye on D/S, a much more interesting development. I wasn't even planning on getting P8, but the offer made was too good to pass. But as with previous releases it left me kind of unimpressed. The WOW P5 release feeling has long gone and never came back with releases that followed.

I am not feeling that way about Poser..  There is a high level of disappointment Regarding overall quality. the frequency of crashes has not been rectified by SR1.   Rendering is erratic at best..
But,  Poser is all that I have.   I have tried the free software that a lot of people rave about but I have not had enough patience to learn the complexities.

If only Poser and Painter had not been sold by Fractal Designs.  If these two programs were merged.  This person would have been a very happy little camper.

Poser 8 brought Indirect Lighting, new library system, improved rendertimes, new user interface, new figures, new rigging system and multiple falloff zones for joints, morphing tool can be used over multiple bodyparts, dependent parameters, inverse square falloff for lights, better plugin support, tone mapping, better OpenGL support and other improvements. All features requested by the community for a long time.
This is a major new version of Poser and much more than a glorified service release.

Poser 1 and 2 were released by Fractal Design in the 90s. It did not even include transparency support and was no more than a tool for (hand) drawing. It still can be used as such, but has grown into much more when it added animation, figure rigging and much more realistic rendering,

When I bought Poser 4 Pro - which some mention as the most stable release of Poser - I deinstalled it after a few weeks and went back to Poser 4 because it trashed my saved files continuously. Poser 4 never had that problem. Half a year later I bought a new PC and tried Poser 4 Pro again and never had any problems of this kind at all anymore. Was it a problem with Poser or with my old machine?
I really have no idea.

I would say that with Poser 8, it finally seems on track towards becoming something far better than it ever was before, but it's not there yet. Not even close, IMO, but it's good to see they're at least heading in the direction they should have headed in about 5 years ago.

Not the library though. I guess I'm in the minority, but certainly not the only one who thinks they took the wrong path there. I mean, come on - having to install Flash for IE to be able to use a very important feature in Poser? You can't load figures or anything else any other way, so I suppose that counts as a game-killing thing there if you don't have Flash installed.

Why not something more typical? Max, Softimage, Maya, and Lightwave people seem to have no problems with that whole content directory scheme and it's part of the program, and doesn't depend on some other program being installed. And while Poser's whole Runtime scheme is similar to those program's content schemes, the other programs can switch between content directories just fine, and quickly, but without the added complications of adding Flash into the mix.
Well, OK, maybe some of the C++2005 redistributables or other similar things have to be there in the system, but those are included in the installers for the most part, if not already installed. Just like most games will install DirectX along with the game.

And the whole premise... sure get your Poser stuff into your scene quicker, but it still takes 20 times longer to set up a scene when you factor in dicking around with the lights for an hour to get something good, poor translation tools, and no prop grouping and things like that, not to mention that even though P8 renders faster, it's still ridiculously slow in comparison to all other 3d apps for what it does.

So I hope to see that in the future they'll start considering some of these other things, as well as listen to what some of the people are saying.

You know I think I am going to wait on Poser Pro 2 and see if they work out that file structure problem.  If not I will stick with Poser Pro and use Carrara or Lightwave for rendering.

There are many things I can think of which would improve Poser for me. Many wishes I had in the past have been implemented in this and in previous versions. And no doubt that the next version of Poser will implement more things I would like to see.

Using a multi-platform building environment like flex for writing (part of) your application is always a trade-off. On one hand you lose control over part of the code you deliver but on the other hand you gain functionality with less effort meaning lower development costs. What new functionality this will bring and whether or not it is worth it, will be seen in the future.
But with the new additional python support 3rd party tools like XL, P3dO or PzDB can offer an even more integrated alternative for Posers library. I have no doubt that that will happen.

I guess its wait and see...

While getting a product before everyone else is fun, the "early adopters" are usually the ones who get burned or laughed at. Has everyone forgotten about the iPhone? People lined up outside stores to buy it! Yet a few months later, Apple increased the iPhone's memory, gave it better wireless coverage and dropped the price.

A similar issue happened with Poser: a little while after P5 came out, Amazon put it on sale for $99. Sure, people had to wait months (or maybe a year) after it first came out, but $99 was over half off the normal price.

Plus, there are numerous stories, especially about Microsoft and Windows, recommending that people wait until SR1 or SR2 to make sure most of the bugs are fixed.

I'm not saying people shouldn't buy a product when it first comes out, but be watchful for extra sales promotions later on. Do you really need Poser 8 right now? Or can you wait until SR2 is merged into the installer or until Smith Micro or Amazon runs a sale?

As for magazine reviews, I agree that I don't fully trust them either. Like some of the posters have said, magazines need advertising revenue to survive, so will they really risk angering someone like Smith Micro or Adobe by giving their software a bad review?
Okay, maybe some magazines have a "neutral" policy and tell their advertisers that software might be given a poor review, but in this economy, I wonder how many magazines bend this rule just so advertisers will continue advertising.

I'm also suspicious of 3D World's fairly good review of Poser 8 when there's a full-page ad for Smith Micro/ Poser 8 a few pages before the review. I'm not saying the ad influenced the reviewer, but if I were the editor, I would make sure there were no ads from Smith Micro in that issue just to make sure readers don't get suspicious.

The only magazine reviews I trust are from Consumer Reports: they don't run ads at all, so there's not even a hint that they're being influenced by advertisers.

Quote - I'm also suspicious of 3D World's fairly good review of Poser 8 when there's a full-page ad for Smith Micro/ Poser 8 a few pages before the review. I'm not saying the ad influenced the reviewer, but if I were the editor, I would make sure there were no ads from Smith Micro in that issue just to make sure readers don't get suspicious.

3D World is probably the worst with it comes to believability.  They purposely use people who directly benefit from the software to write the review for it.  I quite buying the magazine when I read a review and the reviewer was the same person who wrote the tutorial book for the software.  His sales of his book is directly tied to how well the software sales.  I wrote 3D Magazine questioning this and their reply was that they needed someone who knew the software to write the review.

The same is the issue with most of the reviews pointed to in this thread. Some of the writer do depend on good Poser 8 sales, to sell their own P8 related items.

Also when you do compare some of these reviews it looks like they've used a fact sheet or blue print to write them. They're very similar and one wonders if the reviewer has even actually used the application. Not the case with all them, some seem very genuine, but others are questionable.

I'm highly suspicious of any software review that seems all happy happy joy joy.
I want to know what's wrong with it, and that's what I look for first. If I don't find any, I immediately write it off as slanted and unrealistic. All software has problems and if the reviewer didn't mention it, he either didn't want to for whatever reason, or he didn't test it enough to be qualified to write a review, IMO.

I do the same when I buy hardware at Newegg, too. I first read all the negative reviews and work my way up to the positive.

Quote - Using a multi-platform building environment like flex for writing (part of) your application is always a trade-off. On one hand you lose control over part of the code you deliver but on the other hand you gain functionality with less effort meaning lower development costs. What new functionality this will bring and whether or not it is worth it, will be seen in the future.

Really, the new Poser core rewrite was done with Flex?  I thought that Flex was supposed to be
a more advanced/replacement of the Flash platform. 

Just the library, from what I understand.

Apparantly I've gotten a lot of responses FROM "early adopters". Those with ruffled feathers sqwauk the loudest, and I've done my share of sqwauking myself though - this forum thread not withstanding, and Yes CGShare has forums.

My point is this. Remember when you spent about $600.00 or more on 3D content for Poser 4 and the propack a few years ago? Wouldn't it be really really swell if you could keep on using that content that you loved and paid so much for in future versions of Poser indefinitely?
(by the way - "HEY - LOOK MA - I'M USING REAL LIVE PARAGRAPHS - WOO HOOOO!!!")

Let's talk about Poser itself. Brand new it runs about $250.00. That's pretty cheap for Poser because I can remember when the old Poser Pro Pack came out during the Metacreations / Curious Labs transition - and I saw it back then for about TWICE that much because times were better and Poser was a cutting edge thing! My copy was a gift - or I never could have gotten it. I was amazed that folks could afford it THEN!

Generally you won't spend that much unless your a die hard hobbyist or a professional CGI artist, I got Poser 6 for $99.00 on sale - and I had to pinch pennies to pull THAT off.

 Let's say that you spent $400.00 on Poser Pro, and another $600.00 on content. Hmmm - $1000.00 investment. Over the years - NATURALLY - Poser capabilities increase with new versions. Your original copy of Poser is now officially lame, and content that will work with the figures that you have begins to shrink. Where once stuff for "Vicky 2" was all over the net - now, the old sites you went to for content are either dead, or they've had a change of venue or format.

Where once you saw Vicky 2 stuff all over the place - now you see maybe a lame pair of boots or an underwear texture every third blue moon. The NEW figures that are out (Vick 4.2, Mike 4, Aiko 4, etc.), are not only costly in and of themselves as far as disposeable income is concerned - but as a sneaky below the belt gimmick - NOW you have to buy extra "Head And Body Morph Packs" to make the figures complete and to give them halfway decent morph channels. That means that your paying about 30% more per figure than you did for "Vicky 2".

So - one day Smith Micro, or WHOMEVER will own the franchise, comes out with Poser 9 or P10.

They've made the sudden decision that;  "Hey - guess what kids" - this version of Poser can't use PZ2, .lgt, .mt6, PZ3, PPP, CR2, HR2, FC2, or Standard Poser Prop Files like previous versions. It only uses SMITH MICRO figures and proprietary file formats now, and those will cost you about twice as much as your original Poser stuff! We got the idea to screw you that way because Poser was just suuuccchhh a hot seller, we felt that it was time to "take it to new directions ( corporate babble for "bleed you dry")!

Hey, guess what?...You just crapped out a $600.00 floater! THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING! The FASTER that you snatch up new versions - the more you encourage slimy monkey suits to pull a fast one on you, and the quicker the expensive software that you have turns into redundant white noise. I've seen it happen - you have to - and it ain't a pretty thing! I hate to play "CGI NOSTRADAMUS" here - but I will be posting a big "I TOLD YOU SO" when the catch 22 hit's the crater.

Quote - Heh the "Wow Poser 5" feeling was very quickly overpowered by the "OMG WHAT A BUGGY PoS" - Poser 5 was, regardless )or perhaps because of...) all the new features close to useless most of the time for so many people that the recent Poser 8 problems seems insignificant.

PERSONALLY I must have some sort of Poser Guardian Angel sitting on my shoulder, because I've never had any major problems with new versions - but to say that nothing happened since Poser 5 tells me.. well... no. I won't go there. 

WHY is it so hard to believe/understand that Poser 8 is for a great part a TOTAL CORE REWRITE? This is why it can be FASTER than its predecessors. This is why the renderer is faster. This is why the library has changed. It's because, for once, it is a REWRITE, not just clamping new things on the old Poser 4 engine.

So naturally there will be a relatively larger amount of bugs in this release. It's like a new program.

And yes. Some people have big problems with Poser 8. I feel sorry for them. But the majority of users do NOT have a lot of problems. We're just not as vocal about it - quite naturally. The people who have problems, seek out forums for a solution. The ones who does not have problems are busy making pictures with their new toy instead.

So why am I here so much you may ask? Well because I'm here while Poser is rendering. And here during work hours where I can get online from my trains but not play with Poser (My netbook is good but not really suited for Poser although it runs on it - besides... I'm supposed to be checking tickets and whatnot when at work L) But I'm not here because my Poser 8 doesn't work. Because.. it does!

Trekkie Girl said "This is why the library has changed". I hope that she's not referring to the early signs of the evolving redundancy of OUR libraries (content) that we've spent YEARS building.

In spite of the fact that content from ten years ago STILL WORKS in Poser 8 (sorry, but I don't see the big deal here ...) I can't think of much content from ten years ago that I would WANT to still use, to be honest.  The quality of the content from ten years ago just doesn't cut it.

Evolving redundancy?  Just because Poser 8 can't use RSR files and BUM files?  Otherwise, the content still works you know. There just isn't a one-click solution for it like people have come to expect.

And $600 on content?  I've spent at least ten times that over the years. Thing is I have taken the time to learn how to modify or create my own. So I don't have to worry about obsolescence. 8-)

Considering the competition from DAZ STUDIO - and how DS can use POSER FORMAT files, that's even more of a motivation for Smith Micro to give Poser an entirely new file format face lift - and pull the rug out from under everybody!

Yeah, so true.
I'm also pretty sure most of them are Illuminati as well.

Qoute: "Evolving redundancy?  Just because Poser 8 can't use RSR files and BUM files?  Otherwise, the content still works you know. There just isn't a one-click solution for it like people have come to expect." Unqoute. Also, QOUTE: " And $600 on content?  I've spent at least ten times that over the years. Thing is I have taken the time to learn how to modify or create my own. So I don't have to worry about obsolescence. 8-)"

YEEeeeeeessss - "like people have COME TO EXPECT". Hmmmmm - how much did they PAY to be able to "EXPECT" that the first time around? Incase you've missed a few CNN reports - LIFE IS TERRIBLY SHORT! I don't want to have to go through a dozen more operations to get my stuff to work. I bought it - I want to keep it - and I don't like to be forced through atrician to "clean out my closet".

QOUTE: "I can't think of much content from ten years ago that I would WANT to still use, to be honest.  The quality of the content from ten years ago just doesn't cut it." Unqoute.

NEWSFLASH, in 1999, CGI for the most part SUCKED!,I'm not even sure if Poser as we know it even EXISTED in 1999, but the content from as recent as 2002 / 2003 is what I'M talking about. BUT, some people like nostalgia, some people like retro, and some people like what's comfortable and familiar. If you pay big bucks for something - you should get a product with STAYING POWER! Content especially. You may not like older content - but other people do. Hell - the Poser 4 male - otherwise known as "The Dork", has a freaking cult following in CGI circles!

What's wrong Mikey? did I poop in your cheerios with my little rant?
Let me guess - early adopter - LMAO.

Quote - Qoute: "Evolving redundancy?  Just because Poser 8 can't use RSR files and BUM files?  Otherwise, the content still works you know. There just isn't a one-click solution for it like people have come to expect." Unqoute. Also, QOUTE: " And $600 on content?  I've spent at least ten times that over the years. Thing is I have taken the time to learn how to modify or create my own. So I don't have to worry about obsolescence. 8-)"

YEEeeeeeessss - "like people have COME TO EXPECT". Hmmmmm - how much did they PAY to be able to "EXPECT" that the first time around? Incase you've missed a few CNN reports - LIFE IS TERRIBLY SHORT! I don't want to have to go through a dozen more operations to get my stuff to work. I bought it - I want to keep it - and I don't like to be forced through atrician to "clean out my closet".

QOUTE: "I can't think of much content from ten years ago that I would WANT to still use, to be honest.  The quality of the content from ten years ago just doesn't cut it." Unqoute.

NEWSFLASH, in 1999, CGI for the most part SUCKED!,I'm not even sure if Poser as we know it even EXISTED in 1999, but the content from as recent as 2002 / 2003 is what I'M talking about. BUT, some people like nostalgia, some people like retro, and some people like what's comfortable and familiar. If you pay big bucks for something - you should get a product with STAYING POWER! Content especially. You may not like older content - but other people do. Hell - the Poser 4 male - otherwise known as "The Dork", has a freaking cult following in CGI circles!

Yes, Poser existed in 1999. Poser 1 was released around 1994/95.  Poser 4 was released in 1999. So "The Dork" was created in an era where you now say the quality sucked.

I would also like to say that back then, in 1999, people DID NOT expect everything to work with a single click. They made their own morphs. They made their own clothes. They figured out the innovations that people now take for granted. That was the days when people shared information in learning how to make the changes themselves. 

For 2002/2003, you are talking the millenium 3 figures. And as far as I know they still work in Poser 8. So I honestly do not understand why you are on such a rant!

Quote - What's wrong Mikey? did I poop in your cheerios with my little rant?
Let me guess - early adopter - LMAO.

No I just felt like being a smartass. It happens from time to time. :biggrin:

Not early adopter, not mid adopter, not late adopter. Not likely future adopter.

Quote -
I would also like to say that back then, in 1999, people DID NOT expect everything to work with a single click. They made their own morphs. They made their own clothes. They figured out the innovations that people now take for granted. That was the days when people shared information in learning how to make the changes themselves. 

This is true.
And the marketplaces all over largely killed much of that.
And the enormous success of the marketplaces stagnated Poser's development as "Content Paradise" was born, while "bloated runtimes" led to things like this ridiculous new library instead of a new render engine...

Actually, that's a double-edged sword there. As figures got more and more advanced (ie: built in morph targets, various body shapes, joint controlled morphs, etc), incorporating all of the innovations that the community, in part, discovered, it became more and more difficult (and time consuming) for many to create their own things.  And because it was more difficult and time consuming, and because there were a LOT more users coming in that didn't know how to do it themselves, a marketplace was born.

Unfortunately, the community aspect of the old Poser days is largely gone, which is unfortunate. I miss those days. But that hasn't stopped me from trying to help someone that wants to learn how to do it themselves ... in fact, I encourage that whenever I can! 8-)

Quote -
If you pay big bucks for something - you should get a product with STAYING POWER! Content especially. You may not like older content - but other people do. Hell - the Poser 4 male - otherwise known as "The Dork", has a freaking cult following in CGI circles!

What is the problem here?
It's already been pointed out that all your old stuff will work in all versions of Poser since you bought the stuff.
If you're upset that those products are not supported much anymore if at all, well, things change and all.

Quote -
**Actually, that's a double-edged sword there. As figures got more and more advanced (ie: built in morph targets, various body shapes, joint controlled morphs, etc), incorporating all of the innovations that the community, in part, discovered, it became more and more difficult (and time consuming) for many to create their own things.  And because it was more difficult and time consuming, and because there were a LOT more users coming in that didn't know how to do it themselves, a marketplace was born.

Unfortunately, the community aspect of the old Poser days is largely gone, which is unfortunate. I miss those days.**

Quote -

Okay, I'll give you that, but I do believe the success of the Poser Store idea has stagnated the actual development of the program itself.

And yes, it was at least more fun back in the early years.

 Mugsey.. I think you're barking up the wrong tree here.

One moment you say Dork is fantastic and a cult figure. And at the same time you say that 1999 content, which - surprise surprise - was when said Dork was made - is crap.

So people are making a cult around a crappy figure? Not that it would surprise me, look at Creepy the Clown - he was uglier than Dork L And THERE you could talk about cult!

As Deeey said, only the rsr's and .bum files won't work in Poser 8 (and I'm not even sure about the .bum files... has anyone tried to add them as a normal map?) - and the .rsr is a leftover from when Poser was a Mac program. (as are its internal paths with the : where you'd expect a backslash)

But you know what? DazStudio is getting more and more incompatible with Poser figures. Or Poser is getting incompatible with Daz figures, choose your own PoV. The Freak 4 doesn't even work properly in Poser anymore. And is that POSER's and Smith Micro's fault? Is it because they're greedy b*stids that wants to milk their users? Not really, no. Quite the opposite. I can still load Poser 2 figures into my Poser 8 and they work. But I can't load a NEW figure into my Poser and have it work. From a company that got to where they are not BECAUSE of Poser.

So who's to blame? Likewise, the Poser 8 figures are incompatible with Daz Studio. Why shouldn't Poser figures evolve? For that matter, why shouldn't Daz figures? We've been incredibly LUCKY for the past 10+ years that everything WAS compatible. It's a thing rarely seen in other computer programs.

It's the way of life. It's called evolution.

And your figures are taken out of the blue - you forget that Poser has always had upgrade prices - so once you've bought ONE version of Poser you'll never have to pay FULL PRICE for any more versions. So yes, I could afford the $129 to get Poser 8 the day it got out, I'd been saving up for that occasion for a long time. And I do NOT regret being an "early adopter" - not one second. Sure I could save money if I waited, but then I would not have been able to play with Poser in the mean time

That's what people always forget when they say "wait" - it's like with DVD movies. I can go out and buy a movie on the release day and watch it and enjoy it. AND pay through the nose for it. Or I can wait a couple of months and find it in a bargain bin for nothing. But then I wouldn't be able to SEE it in the months that passed, right?  (heck sometimes the cheeky bastids on TV even air movies I've bought! I demand my money back! Here I BOUGHT a video and now I can watch it for free! The NERVE!)

They say that good things come to those who wait. I'd say obsolete things comes to those who waits too long. How many of you guys have a 10 year old cell phone? If all you need is something to phone other people, and send an occasional text message, why upgrade your phone? didn't the old one work good enough?

I was woken up at 9:00AM this morning by a phone call from Smith Micro trying to get my to buy a Poser 8 upgrade, and they were even going to throw in Wardrobe Wizard 2.0 (which I already own) and StuffIt.  I told them that I rely upon many of the Poser Pro features (64-bit renderer, Render in Background, Render Queue) for my artwork and that I won't be buying anything until Poser Pro 2010 shows up.

I didn't mention that I'm semi-seriously looking at switching over to DS3A these days.

Wow! So they're resorting to cold calling customers to sell Poser 8? Ouch!

It is impossible to "cold call" a "customer", by definition.

I wish I could go until 9am to be woken up...lol ;o). Ah well, never gonna happen...

Laurie

But I did want to mention that Freak 4 does work in Poser, if the armor or clothing is made to work in Poser. I'm currently in the finishing phase of some armor for our Freakish one and it works perfectly.

 Admittedly I do not have F4 myself. Buyt I've seen so many threads about him not working that... 

And yes I know it's a problem with the clothes scaling/conforming some such thing so it would make sense that it would work in Poser if made for Poser. 

It doesn't really change the fact that Daz has managed to make an incompatible (at least to some degree) figure. And once they've started...

Oh and I would be LIVID if anyone called me at 9 am. I work nights so at 9am I am fast asleep. Good thing they won't call abroad and that telemarketing (except for newspapers and insurances, which always call late afternoon) are not allowed here. 

Quote -  It doesn't really change the fact that Daz has managed to make an incompatible (at least to some degree) figure. And once they've started...

But that's exactly my point. Again, I'm not going to slosh in the pits about what DAZ has or hasn't done. What I want are cool outfits for Freak that work...and mine work!

jeez, those guys never called me.  but I would still buy poser anyway, just to keep the cash flow positive for them.  I don't wanna see any of those guys having to go to work for apple or adobe or autodesk, and oracle is about to slash 3,000 jobs.

Well guys, forgive me for seeming a bit pushy (my family hates me, lol), but at times I get a little passionate about things (might be hypertension - might be "Manipause", not quite sure).
The point is that I have a deep seated fear of all of the content I've worked hard to both collect, and create, suddenly turning into fossilized dinosaur poo. I'm a poor boy ( a combination of a lack of ambition, and being fughly, lol) - so I can't pop down a 250 clams while trying to stay in the black (these ain't the Clinton years), let alone another 500 smackers to restock my stock.
Now I will peacefully conclude my time on this thread because I'm sarting to disgust myself with the "dove with a wounded wing / boo hoo hoo" tantrum. Peace to you all - and nice talkin to ya!