Sent you a PM :)

And... I jumped on the sidegrade, but I do wish SM would allow us Europeans to order physical goods from our own country, because I am not going to stand for adding up to $50 "handling" charges on top of the 17.5% Tax and the additional duty I end up being charged, if I dare order the physical product.
I would have loved to get the hybrid, since a friend of mine might give me his old Mac, but alas. Not gonna happen.

 Is there an update to the figures?

i tried p3do on my old xp system but sadly this doesnt work on my windows 7 system, and im sorry if i offended anyone who likes the new library but myself i prefer the old poser7 library system, for one thing it worked for more people than p8 does,and for me it did it better.

*There are some alternatives to the P8 library sytem... ;)

I use the script by Dimension3d sometimes but it doesn not work together with the multiple undo-function - IMHO one of the most valuable changes we got during the evolution of Poser. Is there any alternative library that works hand in hand with Poser in a way that allows multiple undo?*

And no, although I was able to get P8 to work on the computer it was bought for (after months...) I still did not really make friend with the new library. As Ghostofmacbeth said I need more clicks and my feeling is that the new library acts kind of  tenacious. But I am aware that many people asked for a new use rinterface during the years while those that are satisfied with what the have tend to stay quiet*. **

I'm not a big fan of the new library. It works is all I can say for it. The skinny scroll bars still P me off.

Quote - Is there any alternative library that works hand in hand with Poser in a way that allows multiple undo?

Advanced Library does. 

I've downloaded it and will give it a try - thanks a lot!!!

I have no idea at all how the new library can result in more clicks for anyone. You can go directly inside a given runtime faster than with the old system, and for stuff you use constantly, you can save to favourites. My only problem with it is that it has tended to hang on refreshes, although that has seemed to improve somewhat.

Beside the problems refreshing content (very annoying if you create your own things - with the old library I just had to switch to a different libray and back to see what I've just added) the supertiny handle that changes it's size while scrolling alone makes it impossible to me to grab it and move it down with the pencil in one click. I always loose it and have to find it again to move a little further.

Then the fact that the old library showed just the folder you where working with while the new one shows everything from clothes for V3 to hair for Michael while you are working with Miki is kind of confusing. The favorites are something I do not really need as my favorites change quickly while working - and in fact they are pretty useless to me as long as I am not able to add a complete (sub)folder to them (for instance a complete set of poses for portraits or  cloth materials). Adding things to the favorites one by one does only mean even more clicks...

Quote - > Quote - Is there any alternative library that works hand in hand with Poser in a way that allows multiple undo?

Advanced Library does. 

Confirmed. And work very well it does too... Can autoconform and magnetise too.

Have also jumped on the up/sidegrade to Poser Pro and like the extra features - have something running in the queue manager now. Can't wait 'till PP 2010, all the new stuff from Poser 8 plus the extra functionality of an update Pro.! - the old interface of PP looks dated now compared to 8 :) 

I'm with you on the skinny handles. I know a lot of people requested a change there; I'm hoping....

As far as folders go, it's precisely because the inner folders show that the new library is less steps to navigate than the old one. But I try to make sure that I close folders when I'm done with them, because they really do add to the clutter. (On the other hand, the fact that they stay open by default really helps you if you're working back and forth.)

But my primary way of dealing with clutter is having a lot of well-categorized runtimes.

To me, the even if you don't have 64 bit or a network to render on (which is my present situation), background rendering, and especially, the Queue Manager, are huge features. The thing with the Queue is that it takes a fraction of the resources of the application, and you can close Poser Pro down while rendering if you want. The savings on system resources is huge.

Quote - To me, the even if you don't have 64 bit or a network to render on (which is my present situation), background rendering, and especially, the Queue Manager, are huge features. The thing with the Queue is that it takes a fraction of the resources of the application, and you can close Poser Pro down while rendering if you want. The savings on system resources is huge.

Yep, just noticed that. Closed PP but still have the queue manager running happily rendering a scene. Wasn't really aware of these extra features that Pro has over non pro - perhaps they should advertise these extra abilities a bit more, they certainly are very useful. Running this on 32 bit now.

So do I - I sort things by category and figure. For instance figures-->clothes-->V4 or poses-->clothes-->V4 and a subfolder for each clothing set.  But as I do not always use everything that comes with a full set of clothes and like to mix things instead (shoes from here, dress from there, a nice hairdo, hair textures...) there are often masses of open folders to make things confusing.

I have the feeling that Poser 8 and the Pro 2010 beta start up far faster then previous versions but then the library slows things down again because each and everything has to be loaded when you open a folder. I confess that I prepare to fix me a coffee while waiting for Poser to finish loading everything once instead of twiddling my thumbs again and again while waiting for a huge folder to open up just because I need one single pose within...

Quote - I'm with you on the skinny handles.

Me too; But what annoys me is that I always have to resize the library to get to the scrollbar: If you hide the library and make it visible again (Ctrl-Shift-B), it appears at a default width which hides half of the "category" buttons and the scrollbar... That's a bug which should had been fixed in SR1...

My own pet peeves about the library:

• Too much to see (subjective, see below)
• Too large (takes twice the space the old one needed)
• Does always appear at a unusable default width (as I just explained - Bug)
• Doesn't switch to Materials when in the Material Room anymore. (Bug)
• Making it larger reduces all the other windows. I'd prefer if it only resized the nearest one. (Funny enough, I 'd rather maintain my preview aspect ratio, no matter what)

But I consider the new library to be a WIP, I only hope SM will fix all those little problems soon.

Quote - As far as folders go, it's precisely because the inner folders show that the new library is less steps to navigate than the old one.

Yes, but if you have 80 GB of runtime constantly displayed in it's totality, it can't but be tedious. Not that the old system was better, in P6/7 I use exclusively the folder navigation (little arrow) to jump directly from folder to folder: Else, going from the 4th subfolder of Figures to the 6th subfolder of Poses and back again becomes a tedious clickfest, and in the new library it's a tedious click- and scrollfest...

But as I said, I hope they'll eventually finish it once they've secured their 2009 bottom line.

Quote -
Yep, just noticed that. Closed PP but still have the queue manager running happily rendering a scene. Wasn't really aware of these extra features that Pro has over non pro - perhaps they should advertise these extra abilities a bit more, they certainly are very useful. Running this on 32 bit now.

Actually, the Queue has been central to their promotion of Poser Pro all along. I'm guessing though that a lot of people don't quite get the implications.

Quote - the library slows things down again because each and everything has to be loaded when you open a folder. I confess that I prepare to fix me a coffee while waiting for Poser to finish loading everything once instead of twiddling my thumbs again and again while waiting for a huge folder to open up just because I need one single pose within...

Huh? No, for me it's instantaneous (or as good as). 80 GB runtime, P8, Win XP. I've never had to wait for the library.

I have found that it is a lot more clicks to do anything and it is slower to access content. The four versus 18 clicks is a real thing. Starting at the same point I loaded M4, loaded a freak texture and loaded a pose. In Poser 7 it was four clicks, in Poser 8 it was 18. That is not using the triangle auto scroll in Poser 8 since it is broken.

*80 GB runtime, P8, Win XP. I've never had to wait for the library.

• That may be a reason, my runtime contains 180 GB while I am using the same OS.*

SaintFox: 180 GB in one single runtime??? (If not, then I don't think the number is really relevant.)

Ghostofmacbeth, all I can say is that you're doing something funny if it takes you more clicks. (And that's aside from the annoying delay switching runtimes gives you in older versions.)

Here's the "long way" on P8 that I just did for fun:

1. went to my M4 runtime
2. loaded M4 (as I use the DAZ People folder regularly, I leave the top level open)
3. went to Pose folder
4. opened Freak 4 folder
5. loaded Freak 4 texture
6. opened Freak Rules folder
7. loaded pose

That's 7 clicks without doing anything special. (And no, I don't need to use the scrollbar, because if the library is selected I can use the scroll wheel on my mouse.

But if one wanted to do everything via the "dropdown" (the right-facing arrow near the upper right of the library palette) the only clicks would be the actual items loaded - i.e. three - since you don't need to actually open any folders; you can "hover" to every item you want. (Of course, you don't see thumbnails that way.)

I just don't know how you can have less clicks than that (aside from saving your preloaded figure and just clicking on that).

*SaintFox: 180 GB in one single runtime???

• Yep - and until P8 I never got any trouble than some minute more to start Poser up - and that's a thing I can live with as I have almost no crashes. Starting it once a day is enough for a whole day of work so I am not bothered by aproximatly 3-4 minutes start up time*.* Hopping from runtime to runtime takes me far longer. As said: I rarely use things straight out of the box so a strict V4-runtime leads to nothing for me. Just think about all the hairstyles that fit several figures, dynamic clothes, materials and so on that almost ask for being used cross-figure.*

Of course the huge runtime is also caused by things we do ourselves, things I tested and, after finding them flawless, kept for further use and so on.

*That's 7 clicks without doing anything special. (And no, I don't need to use the scrollbar, because if the library is selected I can use the scroll wheel on my mouse.

I think I didn't touch my mouse since last easter The tablet is far faster and more precise as more if you change permanently between your painting application and Poser.*
My tablet has a touchpad to scroll with but that's even more tedious than using the pen.

Quote - *SaintFox: 180 GB in one single runtime???

• Yep - and until P8 I never got any trouble than some minute more to start Poser up - and that's a thing I can live with as I have almost no crashes. Starting it once a day is enough for a whole day of work so I am not bothered by aproximatly 3-4 minutes start up time*.* Hopping from runtime to runtime takes me far longer. As said: I rarely use things straight out of the box so a strict V4-runtime leads to nothing for me. Just think about all the hairstyles that fit several figures, dynamic clothes, materials and so on that almost ask for being used cross-figure.*

Well, runtimes aren't simply for multiple people-figures (although I have mine categorized that way too). I have a separate runtime for hair, one for props and animals, one for scenes and furnishing. No reason you couldn't have a runtime for dynamic clothing. Etc.

For me, it's not just about the start up time but also about ease of finding things if they're organized (I'm nowhere near this organized IRL, of course!).

Of course, you don't have to refresh your whole runtime in order to see one new item. You just need to refresh the folder it's in.

I have no problem to browse through the few folders - the character library for instance contains 67 folders - but only because I leave the Poser native folders and what DAZ creates for it's base figures as is (because rearranging them creates a chaos when you'll have to update content). So in fact I work with roundabout 35 folders here - but of course these again contain many subfolders.

I think I'll stay with my all-in-a-whole runtime because I never ran into any trouble with Injections not working or such - and because I often have to work with a search dpth of "None" to make sure that products don't suffer from missing textures, deltas, geometries and whatnot. A seperate runtime may be problematic when doing tests for others.

I think part of it is that I factor in the closing of all the folders as part of the process since I couldn't stand to have every thing open all over the place. Click open folder, click open subfolder, click open subfolder, click pose, click close subfolder, click close subfolder, etc. Those have to be factored in for sanity purposes for me just because otherwise there would be 500 folders open.With the dropdown it is actually four for me since I have to go into a subfolder, which requires the click. Being even slightly clean doubles the clicks and makes it jump to about 18 but I don't know how else I would find things since the screaming would ensue if I didn't close the folders.

I'll probably pass on Pro2010 for a least a year. Y'kno, until all 90 of the service releases come out for it and it finally gets stable ;)
Yeah, I know... that's quite a "negative-nancy" statement but... well... shit! Just call me that guy who is completely sick of buying new poser releases that are practically guaranteed to be bug ridden!! I mean seriously! Can I spend $200+ on yet another glorified hunk-o-data that's going to raise my blood pressure up to mammoth proportions? Really?  ...and what's that you say? I'll have the ultimate opportunity to purchase a separate app to run the library properly (totally avoiding the good work that Bagginsbill has done)... as well as a very handsome set of hoops to jump through in order to achieve substandard performance out of the core program? Oh.... goody!! I'm in bunches now!! Where..do..I..sign..up!?!

Sorry, guys and gals. I just can't do the optimism shit right now. Not after having to reload poser7 last weekend just so I could continue testing a freebie that I'm hoping to release soon. Yeah, I still use P8 but, for rendering only as it totally kicks butt in that area :)

While I don't like the library much, and use a different one (Semidieu's Poser Library Manager - which I can truly recommend.) I do use it in some places, like the Material room.
It not auto switching to materials when in the material room is a real pain, tho.
There are a lot of things I took for granted in the old library, like switching from one folder to the other auto refreshed the content, the fact you could slide the window to the edge of the screen, the fact that it didn't resize everything all the time when you opened it, the auto switching to the right library in a particular room.... but there are some things I don't miss, too. :) Like the not being able to make the window wide enough to see some of those longass names some people put on their poses etc. lol
It has pros and cons.
Unfortunately I kinda miss all the pros the old library had, and was used to the cons.
I didn't really give the new library a chance, because it annoyed the hell out of me with the resizing windows, which I hate/loathe/detest to the n'th degree.
When I lay my screen out, I want it to stay that way.
I wish those windows could be set to lock the size, so if I want to have my preview at 1200x800, that's the size it stays, ratio and everything.
I don't mind the rest resizing, but my preview window size is sacred.

The windows resizing without being told to is/was a bug.

As for the auto refreshing of content when switching folders... that was one of the reasons pre-P8 Poser was so slow, so I can't really say I miss that.

Anyway, this has somehow become a discussion of the P8 library in a thread on PP2010, and Bagginsbill has repeatedly told us/shown us that the PP2010 version of the library will have a great deal of configurability. So hopefully, it can make most people happy.

my biggest gripe with the new library is you cant see very many items in a directory as you are limited to viewing content in one line(which is rubbish if you have one monitor just for the library,most of that monitor is just grey lines), where as in the old library i had the entire folder displayed horrizontally as well as vertically, which means my second monitor which houses just the library has an entire screen of content not just a vertical list) and to that end it makes it so much more easier to examine content..... ok the new library might work fine in a limited enviroment of one monitor but with two its a bit of a wasted space....

I got the PP2010 beta and, sadly, it would appear they did not change that way-too-tiny slider bar. I quit using P8 (except for dynamic cloth) for this reason. I'm hoping PzDB comes through with their upgrade so I can just drag and drop into the PP 2010 stage and avoid that horrible GUI. Now this is just a first-blush look. If they made it more configurable...then I'll be back to sing its praises.

 Is this the old poser pro, or the poser pro 2010 http://my.smithmicro.com/mac/poserpro/index.html ?

Ondoval:

This link is for the current (soon to be old) version of Poser Pro. It is not the beta version of Poser Pro 2010, or the retail version of Poser Pro 2010 (which is to be released sometime this month).

The present deal is that if you buy or upgrade to Poser Pro, you will receive a download copy of Poser Pro 2010 when it comes out this month. Smith Micro has a policy that if you buy an application, and a newer version is released within 30 days, you get a free upgrade to the newer version.

The special sale information is at this website:

http://poser8.smithmicro.com/sale.html

There are no offical details yet on the new features available in Poser 2010. Any information is gleaned from the forums as the beta testers of the retail version let details slip out. Smith Micro is more tolerant of letting bits of information out early than were previous owners of Poser.

Interest seems to be mostly positive at this point, as we all wait for the new "Precious" to be released.

LMK

Ok Thanks a lot Ikendall for youre complete answer.

Let's wait a little more for teh "precious" !!!!

I can't wait so I'm downloading the beta since I now qualify...

Scrollbars are same size but the "hot spot" is larger than it used to be - grabbing the thumb is much easier than it was.

New library can be told not to re-open previously open folders, so faster startup does not require that you "tidy up" your tree.

Closing all branches is a double click now.

Folder scanning is faster than it used to be.

The library window can be its own "application level" window. Can be maximized, minimized, restored independently of the rest of Poser's windows. When run as an app window, it does not in any way dock or change the size of docked components.

Drag and drop does auto conforming.

Drag and drop can be done from the file system - no library manager is needed at all to load content or apply poses, materials, etc.

Etc. etc. etc.

toulouse - just so you know, the PP2010 public beta was released relatively early in the development cycle. We public beta users are seeing only a handful of things different from P8, so you won't see e.g. the library options Bagginsbill is showing above.

That looks pretty good BB. Thanks for showing the new library,

Quote - While I don't like the library much, and use a different one (Semidieu's Poser Library Manager - which I can truly recommend.) I do use it in some places, like the Material room.
It not auto switching to materials when in the material room is a real pain, tho.
There are a lot of things I took for granted in the old library, like switching from one folder to the other auto refreshed the content, the fact you could slide the window to the edge of the screen, the fact that it didn't resize everything all the time when you opened it, the auto switching to the right library in a particular room.... but there are some things I don't miss, too. :) Like the not being able to make the window wide enough to see some of those longass names some people put on their poses etc. lol
It has pros and cons.
Unfortunately I kinda miss all the pros the old library had, and was used to the cons.
I didn't really give the new library a chance, because it annoyed the hell out of me with the resizing windows, which I hate/loathe/detest to the n'th degree.
When I lay my screen out, I want it to stay that way.
I wish those windows could be set to lock the size, so if I want to have my preview at 1200x800, that's the size it stays, ratio and everything.
I don't mind the rest resizing, but my preview window size is sacred.

I'm curious as to why you have your windows set to docking instead of floating then. Float them or any combination of them and then where they are, how big they are, show/hide - none of this will affect anything else.

I like what this updated Libray will be able to do. Thank you for sharing the screen caputres. We wants it my precious: *Gollum...Gollum...

Can the New Library handle short-cuts?

LMK

Quote - I like what this updated Libray will be able to do. Thank you for sharing the screen caputres. We wants it my precious: *Gollum...Gollum...

Can the New Library handle short-cuts?

LMK

There are a bunch of weird behaviors regarding links or shortcuts, whichever you feel like calling them. (Menus say "create shortcut" but the file created is a "lnk" file.) When you put items in Poser's favorites, they are nothing more than lnk files. I designed the GUI to support LNK files anywhere, not just in favorites, and to also permit lnk files to whole folders. For some reason, the server part of Poser doesn't like those, and so we disabled the GUI's support for adding folders to favorites, and for lnk files found just anywhere. I was sad about that because I wanted linked folders in my favorites, not just individual items, so that I could instantly navigate to disparate folders in random places, organizing them how I want to see them in real folders of the favorites.

Anyway, there's no reason you can't try it and see what happens. Stick a shortcut directly in a content folder and see if it works. But do not put a shortcut to a folder - I know Poser will go berzerk on that.

Quote - I'm curious as to why you have your windows set to docking instead of floating then. Float them or any combination of them and then where they are, how big they are, show/hide - none of this will affect anything else.

I hate floating stuff. It's constantly in the way, or behind something, or half covered, or... nah. I just don't like stuff floating around.
I like it when things are where I expect them to be, where I put them. Mess with my settings and yer gone.
Oddly though, I don't mind the library floating, but... no offense BB, I really don't like the P8 library. It's... clunky.
The new stuff you're posting looks interesting though. :)

Mind you, it would be a darn shame if it's only available in PPro 2010, because a lot of people might be converted to P8 if this goes in as a fix.
I'll see how it goes when 2010 arrives. :)

Oh, and BB... I would murder anyone who did to my screen what you do up there, with everything all over the place and floating.
That pic you posted is my worst nightmare. Fingernails on blackboard type stuff.

Also... the linked favorited folders...
Um.
I can do that in Semidieu's Library no problem at all. In fact, I do it pretty regularly and have a bunch of custom folders, as well as entire folders linked from one of the main runtimes. (i.e. lightsets)

Quote - > Quote - I'm curious as to why you have your windows set to docking instead of floating then. Float them or any combination of them and then where they are, how big they are, show/hide - none of this will affect anything else.

I hate floating stuff. It's constantly in the way, or behind something, or half covered, or... nah. I just don't like stuff floating around.
I like it when things are where I expect them to be, where I put them. Mess with my settings and yer gone.
Oddly though, I don't mind the library floating, but... no offense BB, I really don't like the P8 library. It's... clunky.
The new stuff you're posting looks interesting though. :)

Mind you, it would be a darn shame if it's only available in PPro 2010, because a lot of people might be converted to P8 if this goes in as a fix.
I'll see how it goes when 2010 arrives. :)

Oh, and BB... I would murder anyone who did to my screen what you do up there, with everything all over the place and floating.
That pic you posted is my worst nightmare. Fingernails on blackboard type stuff.

Also... the linked favorited folders...
Um.
I can do that in Semidieu's Library no problem at all. In fact, I do it pretty regularly and have a bunch of custom folders, as well as entire folders linked from one of the main runtimes. (i.e. lightsets)

Hmm. So your desire is that the various panels are docked, but when you resize one, the document window does not change size? How would that be possible? If everything is docked and you increase the stuff in the right-hand dock, doesn't the center pane have to resize to give up the space? Or are you suggesting that if you increase the right dock, the left dock shrinks, not the middle? 

I'm not able to imagine what solution you prefer. You don't want everything floating, even though that is how Poser 7 worked - all floating. You don't want docked. What else is there?