Attached Link: http://jf-modeling.daportfolio.com/

I'm a 3D modeler and texture artist.  I'd like to sell more creatures in my Renderosity store, and I know I could design and texture many good ones in my free time.

The problem is that rigging in Poser is very time consuming for me.  While I'm very good at modeling and texturing, I'm not so good at Poser rigging.

If you're a good rigger, and would like to rig and pose creatures for me, I think we could make some good sales here on Rendero.  I know that a lot of work goes into rigging and posing just like it does into modeling and texturing, so I'm willing to split the profits 50/50.

You can check out my portfolio at http://jf-modeling.daportfolio.com/.  The guest password is bl1nk.  My email is on the site as well.

 -Jonathan Fesmire

I'd say initial modelling and textureing is about 20% of the work involved in creating a successful poser character. In many cases, items need to be remodeled to work properly with rigging, and then there are also all the morph involved, and building them into the character cr2.

And nitch figures can have very low launch sales.. as few as 100 or less. If someone has to spend a few weeks rigging a figure, and then splitting the profits, they could well work themselves into the poor house.

I offer a Poser rigging service. A basic, no frills humanoid, usually runs at $100

Quote - I offer a Poser rigging service. A basic, no frills humanoid, usually runs at $100

Sorry, Phil, but I'm trying to make money, not lose money.  I'm a poor MFA student living on food stamps and student loans.

Sad to say, these posts are quite discouraging.

Quote - I'd say initial modelling and textureing is about 20% of the work involved in creating a successful poser character. In many cases, items need to be remodeled to work properly with rigging, and then there are also all the morph involved, and building them into the character cr2.

And nitch figures can have very low launch sales.. as few as 100 or less. If someone has to spend a few weeks rigging a figure, and then splitting the profits, they could well work themselves into the poor house.

Nowhere did I say that I could not create the cr2s.  I can create the Poser files.  I need someone to JUST rig.  I can split up the geometry, as Poser needs.

I'm well aware of how to lay out topology for a model to be rigged.  I would also be doing the blend shapes ("morph targets" in Poser).  I've done rigging in Poser.  It is not more work than the modeling, it is just not something I enjoy or that I specialize in.

I would like to get out of the poor house, thank you.  I would appreciate more constructive comments, rather than discouragement and an attitude that I must not be very bright for my initial post.

You may need to adopt "Plan B" :-

http://www.philc.net/rigging1.php

JohnnyLee-

Your Slitheen rocks :D

Quote - like to get out of the poor house, thank you.  I would appreciate more constructive comments, rather than discouragement and an attitude that I must not be very bright for my initial post.

Both Phil and I have created and sold poser content for no less than 7 years. (Phil probably goes all the way back to poser 1.0 though... he's an ancient dinosaur... LOL!)

So you are getting feedback by professionals who know the market. There are many,  MANY poser content creators that make less than $3 an hour doing poser content. And those people are not splitting the profits.

Unless you happen to hit on a uber popular product (A longshot at best.) Odds are it will be quite a few years before you make any significant money in the poser marketplace, vs the hours you invest creating it. The poser market is struggling because it was soft before the global economy crashed, and needless to say, things have not turned upward yet.

I never implied at all about your intellegence (or lack thereof) in my reply. I offered you my opinion based on the cold hard facts I learned from my years of experience in the poser marketplace.

Sorry it was not what you wanted to hear.

Gareee: Poser 1 and 2 only had Woody as I remember. It wasn't until Poser 3 that you could bring in outside content, if my memory serves me. My first version was version 2. LOL still got the disc somewhere around here. LOL

I have done rigging, mainly of machinery. I cant say its my most fun thing, but sometimes you just need to do it.

$100 for a figure is probably cheap for the time involved.

i would be prepared to look at doing one 'on spec' if you like. That means you send me a model, I rig it and if it works to your satisfaction you proceed to market. If it doesnt meet your approval then no problems , we just both move on.

my email for this (and spam) is marks542004@yahoo.com and less than 10 meg please.

Just like in every thing else you pay your dues in CGI also.
You need to rig your own charaters.
You really need to undestand the CGI universe.
You need a desent web site.
You need a real port folio
Can't just walk in not knowing whats what and start at the top

Zbrush millions poly count is to high for poser.
Most make there base mesh in C4D ,Max Maya ect ect
use Zbrush for microdisplacment maps for high end app's like C4D ,Max Maya.
about all i have seen zbrush used for Poser is making morphs.

Poser is a hobyist app.
I would guess best $$$ is in making sexy morphs,cloths for Vicky.

Blender & Gimps free

I know a few ,very few ,CGI Artist has made $50,000.00 at turbosquid.

http://www.turbosquid.com/Search/3D-Models/Characters/Woman

With rigged ,map ,textured for Autodesk Max charaters.

If not rigged ,map ,textured for Autodesk Max charaters ,few sells.

as far as I can tell.

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/index?siteID=123112&id=13567410

Phantom3D has Max and is a killer rigger

http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=1&userid=534412

As far as I can tell Aery Soul Poser merchants of the year didn't make $5000.00

I guess Poser merchants are Hobbyist just selling stuff for fun.

JonnyLee... design, sculpt, retopo, texture the model. Render WIPs and then ask for rigger, if someone is interested you will have something to show. To be on safe side, show those WIPs only in private to possible rigger.

But best solution would be not to look for shortcuts and "easy money", but to rig it by your self. Poser rigging system is ancient and tedious, but its needed if you want to sell poser content.

Tantarus happen to notice that u have 5 ideams for sell in ya store,split 3 ways.
Be nice if there where dates posted on store ideams.
Anyways ya joined 2005 so your avergaing 1 ideam for sell a year.

I'm guessing your not depending on poser sells for a living.
Have you gotten a 100 sells yet ?

Gareee you have another merchant name ?

Phil C I know you have your own web site but I was surpriced to find only 1 ideam for sell in ya renderosity store.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?ViewProduct=2077&vendor=162 
thumbs where missing.
When ya made ya robe how many sells did you exspect ?

Apollo Max is free and he did not survive.
I've see female meshes not survive eather.

Lets say we make a sexy female charater.
with sexy cloths hair textures ect  ect how many sells would u all exspect if any ?

I alway thought stuff for Vicky sold best.

The store was originally a way of making the Renderosity site self supporting. I was happy to participate, but that was a very long time ago. The robe has apparently survived the various purges caused by non sales, so is apparently still there. I no longer feel that there is a need for me to donate 50% (give or take) of my income for that cause.

RorrKonn you know nothing about me, so be nice and stay polite.

Quote - I know a few ,very few ,CGI Artist has made $50,000.00 at turbosquid. With rigged ,map ,textured for Autodesk Max charaters.

If not rigged ,map ,textured for Autodesk Max charaters ,few sells.

as far as I can tell.

Instead of talking nonsense and making fool out of your self. Learn, give constructive opinions in your limits, and dont attack others ;)

Quote - Gareee, you have another merchant name ?

]

Nope. I had stuff here to test the market but it moved to the dumping ground in 90 days. I still sell over at Daz however, and have since poser 5.

Here's the link to my daz store:

http://www.daz3d.com/i/shop/artistlist?artist=16945&_m=d

 

If you have the figure made , and can group it into the bodyparts, then you can create a hierarchy file (.phi) and use that option in Poser to import and rig the figure. That will leave you with joint zones to set up but its a bit les work than drawing in the bones. You only have to do half the model because I am told you can use symettry to copy the joints from one side to the other.

There was a tutorial with Poser on figure creation using the phi file method. There is a utility called phibuilder to help with it.

I now sell some models through a european site, but they are built in Lightwave and mainly targetted at architectural visualizations and too high poly for Poser.  O found trying to sell props at low prices when freestuff competes was just not worth the effort. I know one vendor who did a figure who has made at least $20,000 from his share but that seemed exceptional.

Quote -  I know one vendor who did a figure who has made at least $20,000 from his share but that seemed exceptional.  

Most vendors do not make that on their entire catalog in an whole year, let alone on one figure.

I would think most poser merchants sell for a little extra pocket/play money.  if you want to be able to make anything at all, you need to do as much as possible, or all, yourself so you don't split the profits too much.  Now there are some successful people who can split the work regularly (AS, DM, OoT & Bice) however those are very skilled people who get a lot of sales so they can afford to split the profit.  Even AS is having to call it quits now.  Why renderosity didn't just let them keep 75% of the profits or something like that since they were always merchants of the year boggles me.

So (AS, DM, OoT & Bice) make a living at this ?
Thay make 20,000.00 a year ?

Tantarus Jonny lee was wanting fast money I was telling him n anyone else about turbo
Gareee was talking about newbies n a 100 sells was just woundering if you all had 100 sells.
There was no atack intended.

But I would think this is how wars are started.
One mistakes what another said n calls them a senseless fool.

I don't think they do.  But they must make enough that teaming up makes more sense to them than working alone.  Like I said, selling stuff is mostly for side money.  The people at aery soul have real jobs that they are going back to now that it looks like they are getting out of modeling.

Actually I wasn't talking about newbies selling at all. I was talking about well known popular merchants that have been around for years.

A "good" selling item sells at least 300 units in its first month. Anything less is considered a failure.

I recall a new figure released by a very popular content creator that sold less then 100 units in 3 months. A year later, that figure was released for free, as the creator was just giving up on that specific product.

If you have 6 full time work weeks in a figure, (Not uncommon at all, when you consider morphs, textures, testing adjusting and promo images.) You have 240 work hours in it.

If you sell 300 units at say $20 each, you've made $3000 on that product, after the 50/50 split with the store.

Working it out hour wise, you are making $12.50 an hour. BUT if you end up not hitting with a winning figure, and end up selling 100 units, you end up making $4-$5 an hour, which is VERY common. If every other figure you create is NOT a high selling hit, you don't pay your house payment.. or electric bill. Or buy food.

So you end up having to do hit after hit in order to make a meager wage, and anything that does not hit, ends up killing you. Now split that profit a second time with someone else, and you can easily see the problem. There just isn't enough money made per item to be able to split, with both people making even a meager wage. You and up making more money working as a cashier at walmart, or at a fast food store clerk.

Keep in mind I've sold here, at the old Poser Pros, at Content Paradise, and at Daz. I have many MANY poser content creator freinds, and most are barely scraping by, or have thrown in the towel, and gone back to real life so they could make a living wage.

If you are doing this just in your spare time, it could take you 2-3 months easily to get a product into a store, and then end up with very little money-wise to show for that effort.

The problem with new characters tend to be you don't offer enough for them when they come out.  When V4 came out daz had already made sure she had several out fits, hairs, and character packs.    When A4 and G4 came out, they made sure both had some content just for them.  And this content was by creators who were known by the community.  So at the least, you'd need 5-7 characters, 10 hair styles, and 20 clothing styles within the first month, half of them out on release of the character.

For me to make a Vicky = by my self would take ah atleast 3 months if not 9 months.
A project that involed would be best to have a CGI Team.Like DAZ has.
Besides so far any one to chalange DAZ has crashed n burned even the freebies.

I think I could make a sexy bra and panty out fit for V4 in a 40 hour week.
Being a no name have no idea if I would get 1 sell for $5.00.

So I might ask a top seller to post it.
But if thay got 100 sells 
$500 / 2 = $250
$250 / 2 = $125
-$37.5 tax .
I would net $87.5

If you think a hundred bucks is an excessive price for rigging a complete original figure, I encourage you to take a stab at it yourself and see exactly how much painstaking work it is.  The mesh and texture are usually not the hard part of the job.

Quote - A "good" selling item sells at least 300 units in its first month. Anything less is considered a failure.

If that's the standard, then the overwhelming majority of any sellable poser items (95%+) are failures.  I realize that's the point you were trying to make.  Plus if it's any good then you should probably resign yourself to seeing your stuff pirated about 50 times as much as it's purchased.

Yep. Those reasons coupled with the bad economy is why I stopped investing time making poser products.

I was easily hitting the magic 300 number most of the time, but i was putting in far too many houirs for far too little gain. I did it full time for 4 years, but it just wasn't financially rewarding to make it worth doing full time any longer.

Things have changed here at home, and I'm toying with doing it again part time, because I really do enjoy creating 3d products. If I can think of something I really want to create, I'll probably test the waters again.

I do miss sharing my creativity with others, but doing it full time just does not make good financial sense.

Use a pre-made rig from your character library and apply it in the setup room. Piece of cake. The tough part is cutting the figure into groups in your modeling app. Tedious, but not difficult at all for a good modeler.

Your giraffe, for example, any four legged critter in the library would get the job done.

Quote - I know a few ,very few ,CGI Artist has made $50,000.00 at turbosquid.

http://www.turbosquid.com/Search/3D-Models/Characters/Woman

With rigged ,map ,textured for Autodesk Max charaters.

If not rigged ,map ,textured for Autodesk Max charaters ,few sells.

as far as I can tell.

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/index?siteID=123112&id=13567410

Phantom3D has Max and is a killer rigger

http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=1&userid=534412

---

As far as I can tell Aery Soul Poser merchants of the year didn't make $5000.00

I guess Poser merchants are Hobbyist just selling stuff for fun.

 

nd last rumor has it AerySoul is getting out of the poser content creation business....too time consuming and not enough gain for the time spent. They are brilliant Poser content creators but.........

Quote - Yep. Those reasons coupled with the bad economy is why I stopped investing time making poser products.

I was easily hitting the magic 300 number most of the time, but i was putting in far too many houirs for far too little gain. I did it full time for 4 years, but it just wasn't financially rewarding to make it worth doing full time any longer.

Things have changed here at home, and I'm toying with doing it again part time, because I really do enjoy creating 3d products. If I can think of something I really want to create, I'll probably test the waters again.

I do miss sharing my creativity with others, but doing it full time just does not make good financial sense.

Damn didn't realize you got out to man. Sorry to hear it.

You hit the nail on the head squarely saying YOU REALLY ENJOY DOING IT"

That is the comment many artists get a bad name for saying out loud. Business men I have done photographic or design/illustrative work for always say that artist have no concept of money and because we do it because we just love our art or for the ego fulfillment, they have historically believed we should do it for free and thus feel quite comfortable not paying us or underpaying us for our efforts. Creating Poser content is no different apparently.

Quote - > Quote - Yep. Those reasons coupled with the bad economy is why I stopped investing time making poser products.

I was easily hitting the magic 300 number most of the time, but i was putting in far too many houirs for far too little gain. I did it full time for 4 years, but it just wasn't financially rewarding to make it worth doing full time any longer.

Things have changed here at home, and I'm toying with doing it again part time, because I really do enjoy creating 3d products. If I can think of something I really want to create, I'll probably test the waters again.

I do miss sharing my creativity with others, but doing it full time just does not make good financial sense.

 

Damn didn't realize you got out to man. Sorry to hear it.

You hit the nail on the head squarely saying YOU REALLY ENJOY DOING IT"

That is the comment many artists get a bad name for saying out loud. Business men I have done photographic or design/illustrative work for always say that artist have no concept of money and because we do it because we just love our art or for the ego fulfillment, they have historically believed we should do it for free and thus feel quite comfortable not paying us or underpaying us for our efforts. Creating Poser content is no different apparently.

Who gives a damn what a business man thinks.

The businessman, who has to set a price on his/her time.  You folks can wish for top notch content at a price near zero, but outside of people's pure generosity - which you do not command! - we content maker types gotta eat.

pjz99 ya taking what i said out of context, try again.

Its not really so much I intentionally got out of it. I was working too hard for too long a period of time, and my wife told me to take it easy for a month or two, so I backed off, and did some real like things (like building our Ghostbuster props), and then the holidays hit.

I spent more time deocrating and enjoying them, and then we got hit with a hard winter, and I was dealing with transport issues for the wife. (We were somewhat snowed in for a months, but with effort we kept one of our cars accessible.)

Then I went on to more prop building for a convention,  did spring yard work, and ran full smack into a major hospital visit where I almost died.

As you can see, it was really just a combination of events in order that just kept me away from doing 3d work. Instead I did some real life creative work, which I also enjoy.

If poser content selling was more lucrative, odds are I would have been more inclined to come back to it faster.

Quote - pjz99 ya taking what i said out of context, try again.

Since I don't know what your context was, and I already tried, maybe it would work better if you'd explain what you meant rather than making me guess.  Do you think I'm walking around looking for ways to misunderstand people?

Quote - > Quote - pjz99 ya taking what i said out of context, try again.

Since I don't know what your context was, and I already tried, maybe it would work better if you'd explain what you meant rather than making me guess.  Do you think I'm walking around looking for ways to misunderstand people?

Shante said

Quote "Business men I have done photographic or design/illustrative work for always say that artist have no concept of money and because we do it because we just love our art or for the ego fulfillment, they have historically believed we should do it for free and thus feel quite comfortable not paying us or underpaying us for our efforts. Creating Poser content is no different apparently."

* * 

RorrKonn Said

quote "Who gives a damn what a business man thinks."

pjz99 said

The businessman, who has to set a price on his/her time.  You folks can wish for top notch content at a price near zero, but outside of people's pure generosity - which you do not command! - we content maker types gotta eat.

pjz99

I was telling the buseness men that wants Shante to work for free to go to hell.
I never said any thing about content creaters.
So why you went there I have no idea.

and telling me quote "which you do not command!" have no idea where that came from.just know there not words of peace.Look in my gallery ,Do you see any poser made content any where ?

But I wish the best for content creaters.

Quote - The businessman, who has to set a price on his/her time.  You folks can wish for top notch content at a price near zero, but outside of people's pure generosity - which you do not command! - we content maker types gotta eat.

I understand what pjz99 means. "which you do not command" Is not aimed directly at you Rorrkonn. but rather at all the people who seem to think that since you create things (free or otherwise) for Poser, that you OWE them something, when you actually owe them less than nothing. People will actually remove themselves fron your friends list and become a vocal enemy simply because they did not get a freebie in the time they think you should have provided it. Its insane. Personally I am more inclined not to give the snots anything at all, and often wish I'd never done aything for free.

BUT, then you have all the nice decent folk, that you'd give your last dime to. Wish there was an easy way to sort them out.

phantom3D

If I am being to nozy fell free to tell me to shut up.
I know your one of the top 10 3D Artist in the world.
Do you make a living at 3D ? work for ILM ,Pixar ,Dreamworks or any CGI company ?
I didn't see any thing for sell at ya store here . Do you sell any where ?
I would think you could rule turbosquid.com.
Do you Think there is any where I could make $20,000 a year selling 3D meshes,
If so where ?

RorrKonn:

Truth be told, I'm a half insane (literally) cripple who USED to be somebody.  A street corner hooker (scamp, punk, whatever you will), a criminal entrepeneur, an engineer, an archetect, an artist. I sold everything, all once upon a time. An old man who is tired and likes his peace. I sell nothing, and never will again. These days, I work for the oil industry.

You ask my advice. Don't make anything for Poser ever. Don"t ever work for, or make anything for Daz. You want to work in CG? Look elsewhere in the real world. Microsoft, is a good start. You can get a good amount of training from them, directly for free, and work for them, if you're any good. THEY WILL PAY YOU. Many others, but Poser and Daz... shit work and will never pay. Learn more than just CG, you'll need it.

I realize you're talking to Mike but: I can recall you've been asking that particular question for a long time now, maybe a couple of years.  My advice is just do it, whether here or at DAZ or wherever (I sell through Renderotica and Animotions).  In my case it's a very long way from $20k per year, more like $2k or $3k.

I really don't want to work for any one.
Coal Minors make real good but no time for Art.
Could dig coal have plenty $$$ get about any girl ya want ,have a wife and kids a nice home with a new 4x4 truck setting in the drive way.
But For better or worst I am a Artist.Most would probably use insain to describ me.
But every time I think about going to the mines . A picture of me beaten and bloody in rags on my knees wrapted in chains pops in my head.One day I am going to make that drawing.

I am going to make some comic books and if that work out good enuff maybe I will make enuff to make a CGI movie :)