i dontthink you will get better results if you use the normal triangles that you gotfrom quads.

i think you need the delaunay triangles for better results.

Quote - i dontthink you will get better results if you use the normal triangles that you gotfrom quads.

 

i think you need the delaunay triangles for better results.

I have yet to see something that truly convinces me that it is of any -major- importance.

But since sculptris is completely free and unlimited, it wouldn't hurt to test.

i tryed this now. i imported the mesh from blender to Sculptris.

when i exported the mesh from Sculptris my UV's were gone.

Sculptris does not preserve UV's when manipulating the mesh. Each time you sculpt, you have to build the UV mapping again. Unfortunate.

Quads work pretty well except when they don't.

Diagonal triangles work pretty well (better than quads) except when they don't, but this is more rare than the bad-quad scenarios.

Hex triangles work pretty well (better than diagonal) except when they don't, but this is more rare than the bad-diagonal scenarios.

Delauney triangles work the best, with the rarest bad scenarios of all.

Grappo, you're right to say you've never seen it matter, but that's not at all the same as saying it never matters. But because the difference is so rare, it's hard to demonstrate. Same with seat belts - I've never actually needed them - I could have gone my whole life without using them and nothing would change for me. There are a fair number of dead people who might have a different opinion.

Thanks BB for your input. It makes sense.   I will keep these things in mind for the next project. 

Hmm.. Redoing UVs again after converting does sound troublesome. I wonder if there's any way to work around that.

I have been slowly (of course - it's cloth sim after all) assembling a set of issues that can be demonstrated with the various tesselations. I have been doing things in a non-methodical way up to this point, just assembling in my mind a comfortable understanding of what sorts of problems exist in cloth sim.

I am (and will be) posting experimental results in this thread:

Dynamic cloth - the cloth room For Compleat Dummies

Might be worth your time to read that, and subscribe.

Very good thread!

The biggest difference seemed to be between any form of quads and triangles.

By the way, there is a way to get similar types of triangles to delanuay in Wings... It just occurred to me. But you have to take it into account early in the model..  I used to remove these things while trying to preserve quads whiles subdividing... 

I don't have my poser computer available so I can't show it, but I will as soon as I get it back! It will not be exact. But you can get this effect quite easily by creating "hexagon" connected triangles while making the lower resolution mesh, then it will preserve this when you subdivide.  Beyond that you need to do some manual polish (But we do either way)   This way you can preserve the UV as well... 

Just a suggestion. Let me know how it goes. I will post some examples later on!

Quote - The biggest difference seemed to be between any form of quads and triangles.

Absolutely! Many of the problems of quads can be mitigated by going to higher mesh density, but you have to go with at least 16 times more quads than triangles to get similar quality.

Yeah that's probably why my quad based clothes have had a pretty good draping quality. I've had high density of polygons, especially in the areas that matter the most..

If I do this optimization with triangles and same polygon count I can probably get very nice results indeed.

Thanks again!

I do like the direction this thread went. I started it just wanting opinions on if people wanted more dynamics, and it's turning into a plethera of knowledge about the best way to go about making them. I'm going to see how my little blue dress looks with tri's, not going the sculptris way tho, because I already have UV's and textures made, and don't want to have to redo them.

And yay my computer is back!  Going to work on my wrap dress now. :)

It's a wrap skirt made from request on another thread. It's my first attempt on multi layered clothing, and it drapes quite nicely. (It uses triangles)

I made it as a cube in wings, turned the front side into a hole, and then "wrapped" it around the figure. I snapped the double vertices on the waist to the same position, then used "weld identical vertices" upon import in Poser, and qot a quite nice result!

For more details on the item, see the thread below.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?message_id=3738740&ebot_calc_page#message_3738740

Very nice, Grappo. First attempt?! Doesn't look like it.

Um, Grappo's no novice when it comes to developing dynamics. His stuff is among the best in the MP. Wish Laurie would find her niche there as well... she's right up there too.

No, not first attempt.  Been at it for some time.   First one using triangles though. Glad you like it. :)

This is all quads btw, albeit small ones. The dress so far is about 12,000 verts and about a thousand less polys.

One more thing: if anyone knows how to handle a sim on a dress where the fabric fits tightly across the boobage, please share. I wound up having to make the whole top part from right under the boobs to the top of the dress constrained to keep the fabric directly under the boobs from pulling down and making an ugly pucker ;o).

Laurie

You have to model it. 

Constraining the top works if your character has a exact standard breasts, but the moment you make the breasts bigger or smaller, the whole thing will go haywire, since the lower part of the breasts will be much lower if they are bigger, and higher if they are smaller...  So if they are bigger, the constrained fabric will look like it's glued to the skin (It would look like the dress is tucked in UNDER the breasts almost), and if they are smaller, it'll shrivel up.

Model it tight around the bosom and you should be fine.

The fabric will not be absolutely tight under the bosom, and it shouldn't be unless the dress has a corset (which yours doesn't)  All you need to avoid is that pucker. :)

I can show you some example renders when I get home today, in a couple of hours.

Thing is I do model it tight and really close ;). Still, the weight of the dress underneath pulls down (even at density 0.0050) and takes the fabric at the bottom of the breast with it...sigh. Renders would be greatly appreciated ;o). Wires too, if you don't mind showing them. If you do...not a problem ;o).

It's always something...lol.

Laurie

Can you show me a render without the constrained top?

Quote - Can you show me a render without the constrained top?

Will take a little while, but sure :o).

Laurie

Ok :) By then I should be at my poser computer so I can do some renders too.

I'd like to ask some questions:first,how do you save a dynamic cloth once you got it working fine?just as a smart prop?will it keep its constrained groups etc?

Second one,how do you make morphs for dynamic clothes?the same way as conforming?

thanks a lot this thred is very interesting

I make all my groups in the modeler I use to create the clothing. Either I make separate groups or separate materials...matters naught to Poser since you can use either ;o). Smart propped is all you need to save it as and if you set up the sim before you save the clothing, everything is saved with it other than what it collides against, collision depth, etc.

You don't need to make morphs for dynamic clothing...that's the beauty of it ;). The trick is to start at the beginning with an unmorphed figure and add the morphs where you add in the pose. The morphs will stretch right into the clothes during the simulation.

Laurie

Now...to do some tests sitting down ;o)

Laurie

Glad you solved it! 

Another thing you can do is to raise the stretch resistance a little. It will keep the weight, but won't get pulled as much by it.

And it drapes just fine!

Laurie

Laurie:

The dress is beautiful. Simple is eligant.

lmk

Thanks ;). I am gonna add some stuff, but perhaps as options. That way, if one wanted to use the dress as-is, they could ;o).

Laurie

(edit-  I didn't realize there was another page and was replying to your post at the end of the last page.)

Laurie, your dynamic stuff for Angela looks so great I'm going to have to another look at her if I can dig up where she's from again.

From that other thread on dynamics, I get the idea you can have more than one dynamic group. So maybe if that part of the mesh was a different dynamic group with a higher (what ever that dial that held shape) setting, it might do the trick?

You can find her here. I had to get her, just to wear Laurie's gorgeous dresses! Lovely character, btw...

Just saw this thread: YES more dynamics, please!

Since I haven't read it all.. Saibaba, did you ever find that robe you wanted on page 1? Because I have one, made for Simon so it ought to fit. And it looks a lot like the one on your painting.

Bionicrooster already made that robe. It's in the freestuff, for M4 and V4

I think my next project is gonna be for GND4 (I barely have anything to fit her) and I'm gonna do my best to do the whole thing in Hexagon.

Laurie

edit: BTW, I solved the "drooping boobs" issue by lowering the stretch damping...lol. I had been getting drooping and an ugly pucker right under each of the breasts and lowering the stretch damping made the fabric snap back ;o). All the settings I used will be in the prop when I finally save it and get it packaged up.

The stretch damping setting becomes very evident when running the simulation, especially the draping frames. The fabric will stretch down due to the weight of the fabric and then a few frames in will begin to come back up again. If you leave the stretch damping at it's default, it doesn't really come back up again...lol.

Static friction you can think of if you take a piece of denim for instance and fold it over and rub the two sides together. It doesn't slide over itself very well, does it? But satin or silk slides easily past itself. And silk and satin slide very, very easily over your skin...that's dynamic friction. Hope that helps some folks who don't understand dynamics very well :o).

Laurie

Very nice work! I like the job with the neck. :)

Quote - Very nice work! I like the job with the neck. :)

Thanks :o). Oddly enough, it was a real pain in the butt...lol. Not cutting out the keyhole, but making the hem around the keyhole.

Laurie

That's usually how it is..  The things you think are going to be tricky and complicated turn out easy, and those things that "Oh, I'll just fix this real quick", take an eternity.. 

I could be wrong, but I think

• static friction is resistance to movement when in contact with the collision object (cloth or figure) and no movement is currently happening
• dynamic friction is resistance to movement when in contact with the collision object (cloth or figure) and movement is already in progress

This is a real-world phenomenon - friction is higher for surfaces not moving past each other. I remember doing this experiment in high school physics. A block was placed on an inclined plane. We increased the slope until the block started to move. From the angle needed, you could calculate the static friction - i.e. how much force was necessary to cause movement to begin. Until the force was above the static friction, the block would not move.

Then we measured how long it took to reach the end of the plane. From this we could calculate the dynamic friction.

The dynamic was always less than the static.

A qualitative test is easier and requires no math. Incline the plane more until the block moves. Then decrease the inclination slightly. Even though that decreased the down force, the block did not stop. This indicates that the sliding friction was less.

Oops...than I got it backwards on explaination and right in the settings then...lol.

I explained it wrong, but let me set it right per Smith Micro's explaination ;o):

Static Friction-
This parameter accepts values from zero to one; it determines how much force is required to start the cloth sliding over a surface from a standstill.
The impact of changes in this setting can be increased by increasing the cloth's density.

Dynamic Friction-
This parameter is similar to Static Friction but determines how much energy is required to keep the fabric moving over a surface. Like Static Friction
its effect may be enhanced or lessened by the Cloth Density setting.

Sorry 'bout that ;o). Sometimes I'm successful in my endeavors, but very seldom perfect...lol.

Laurie

Quote - Oops...than I got it backwards on explaination and right in the settings then...lol.

I explained it wrong, but let me set it right per Smith Micro's explaination ;o):

Static Friction-
This parameter accepts values from zero to one; it determines how much force is required to start the cloth sliding over a surface from a standstill.
The impact of changes in this setting can be increased by increasing the cloth's density.

Dynamic Friction-
This parameter is similar to Static Friction but determines how much energy is required to keep the fabric moving over a surface. Like Static Friction
its effect may be enhanced or lessened by the Cloth Density setting.

Sorry 'bout that ;o). Sometimes I'm successful in my endeavors, but very seldom perfect...lol.

Laurie

Well, you're LIGHT-years ahead of the rest of us lurkers, Laurie. Going over this thread with a fine-tooth comb today - and that other one too - and putting it all in a notebook to read between breaks from pulling sticky things out of people's mouths after their operation. Thank you, all of you, for being so generous with sharing what you've learned and what you know and your time and talent. THIS is what Christmas means to me...

first i modeled it around the body in the T pose. now i tryied it different. i modeled the shape of the pants . the pants are always a little larger then the body. then i symulated the pants in blender to wrap them on the body.i think it looks more realistic.

feedback

Looks great! Looking forward to see them UVmapped and textured. :)  

Okay...that dress I made is now in Freestuff for anyone that wants it.

On to the next one...lol.

Laurie

Quote - Okay...that dress I made is now in Freestuff for anyone that wants it.

On to the next one...lol.

Laurie

YAY! Thank you so much, Laurie... I hope your Christmas is as much brighter as you've just made mine.

Attached Link: Safari Hat