Quote - Because prior to Poser 5, there was no predesignated location for textures to go, so they ended up in the Pose folder (no, I don't know why, I came late to the Poser party).

Actually, Poser 4 (at least) had a "Textures" folder.  Back then, everyone used to make freebies designed to just have the texture map (usually just one map per item, and fairly small) plunked down directly into that textures folder.  I still have a P4 Runtime somewhere with a heckka messy textures directory.  :lol:

Poser 5 did introduce the Materials Room and the Poser shader system, however.

I'm not sure I understand ice-boy's initial question, however, so I can't try to answer that.  :unsure:  What is meant by "materials"?  MAT poses?  Poser shader material files (.mt5)?  Texture maps?

Quote - i always wondered why is this? so that you can load materials outside the material room? how can we save this?

Well, easy enough. Early versions of Poser did not have material room or material entry in the library. Pose files are the type of item that

• show up in the library and
• unlike character, hisr and prop files do not add geometry and
• unlike hand and hair files do not have specific particulars or dedicated objects to work on
• can change about any setting of an object in a scene.

It is a legacy thing, a bug if you want, that users found out about and started to exploit. Same happened with conforming clothing. This was a program bug called 'cross talk'. If you had two figures in a scene and posed the first figure, the second figure took the same pose. Someone had the clever idea to exploit this to make a cloth shaped figure follow a figure shaped figure. See in the legacy content that comes with Poser that there is no conforming clothing for the Poser 1 to 3 figures.  Poser has more of those bugs that turned out to be useful in some way. No need to emphasize that this hindered development. Once the 'conforming' exploit had taken wings, the developers could not fix the cross talk bug anymore.

Now users know no better and object to Poser 7? providing clothing in the props section.

Quote -  In Poser I have movement poses, and materials poses all in the same folders- mostly identfied by the creators name rather than by WHAT they are.I can rename and rearrange them-but it is tedious- and I frequently FORGET what I have installed- Hmmmn what is that under "Sarsa?"

This is not Poser, but the content creator's responsibility.
As mentioned by others, Poser introduced materials (mt5) in Poser 5 and material collections (mc6) in Poser 6.
So there is no need for poses (.pz2) to apply materials in Poser. (which was a hack for earlier versions)
Actually, there is one reason, why content creators stick to .pz2 files to apply materials... DAZ Studio! (and maybe users of Poser 5 and older)
Studio cannot read mc6, even though it's just one line of code that's different from a .pz2 MAT Pose.

Quote -    2)The relational data base is nice. Select the Hair- and only textures and morphs FOR that Hair show up.

This may change, as soon as others than DAZ begin creating content for DS 4.
If they do not stick to some set of rules set by DAZ, the system may no longer work.

And sticking to rules seems to be a problem for both companies.
Just have a closer look at your Poser runtimes or Studio content folders.
The Poser FAQ tells you, that geometries (.obj) go into a subfolder within Runtime->Geometries..
where do you find them? Even for Poser 8 content? In Libraries->character next to the cr2.

After a Studio 3 install you'll find content for V4 within studios content folder, other files are buried in a runtime structure within content.
For some items you'll find the geometry in .obj format within a runtime->geometries folder under content, for others in .dso format under content->data.

And that's all coming from the companies distributing the program and included content.

Maybe I am missing some reason for this, maybe not :)

now that i think about it it is better. why go in the material room when you can add full materials while posing?

quote:- "I'd rather pay for something where everything works upon install over something where you have to add plugins that may or may not work with each new beat up beta that comes out."

Well I actually couldn't use poser without my plugins (python scripts).

I toon with the tooning software, I use advanced figure manager to quickly parent a whole pile of things to something eg an invisible ball so I can move a group of stuff around on mass, I change materials as a group with advanced material manager.  I make my clothes fit properly on morphed figures with morphing cloth (I'm on a mac but I got it working for me).

I delete a whole lot of stuff from a scene in one hit, i turn lights on and off, or shadows on and off for them in one hit etc.

I make the clothes fit my scaled poser person eg Freak 4 all in one hit using a python script by dizzi.

I unhide dials in the head using a D3D script called unhide dials so i can make eg the head bigger or hair fit properly. 

In fact without all my python scripts poser would almost be crippleware to me.

Love esther

PS well some of these scripts were free, but the best ones for me are at runtimedna that are both mac and PC compatible

Quote - now that i think about it it is better. why go in the material room when you can add full materials while posing?

In Poser 8 and up you can use materials from the pose room.

wooow. it works. i was reading somewhere that its not working how it should but i never tryed it. thanks BB.

Quote - Actually, Poser 4 (at least) had a "Textures" folder.  Back then, everyone used to make freebies designed to just have the texture map (usually just one map per item, and fairly small) plunked down directly into that textures folder.  I still have a P4 Runtime somewhere with a heckka messy textures directory.

I was talking about a dedicated folder tab, in Poser's library, for textures, not a folder for textures. ;P

Quote - I was talking about a dedicated folder tab, in Poser's library, for textures, not a folder for textures. ;P

Eh?  You lost me. 

Quote - > Quote - I was talking about a dedicated folder tab, in Poser's library, for textures, not a folder for textures. ;P

Eh?  You lost me. 

Ya lost me too

Laurie

He means materials or mat poses. Some way to access the textures rather than loading them manually.

can DS 4 do the HDRI background image mapped onto a dome like poser can?

Love eshter

if it can not do this in 2011 then this is pathetic.

Well, let's not assume right off the bat that it doesn't. I don't know for sure, but I would certainly think it could.

Laurie

I was using a free version of DS with a free script to get IBL capability and full GI (including ILT) almost 2 years before Poser got IDL.

And when they eventually added ILT to poser they got the spelling wrong :tt2:

so is it now easy to set up in DS 4 and automated?

Quote - so is it now easy to set up in DS 4 and automated?

Nope. It is a separate thing that comes with the installation. It is not a native feature.

Quote - > Quote - Actually, Poser 4 (at least) had a "Textures" folder.  Back then, everyone used to make freebies designed to just have the texture map (usually just one map per item, and fairly small) plunked down directly into that textures folder.  I still have a P4 Runtime somewhere with a heckka messy textures directory.

I was talking about a dedicated folder tab, in Poser's library, for textures, not a folder for textures. ;P

You mean, besides the material room/tab?

He said prior to poser 5 there was no materials category in the library. The GUI. It answers the question "Why did we ever have materials in the pose category". 

The answer to why we still do is vendors who want to make mat presets that work as-is for both Poser and DS, saving them time.

The answer to why some Poser users still prefer mat-poses is because they do not have Poser 8 or better and they like applying materials without having to go into the material room. Since P8+, that problem has been solved. There is no longer any logical reason to use mat-poses except for the fact that vendors prefer to do less work for products that are for DS and Poser, and because some users are never going to upgrade.

How does DAZ Studio 4 compare to Poser?
Well it was DS4 that made me a Poser user haha.

Quote - How does DAZ Studio 4 compare to Poser?
Well it was DS4 that made me a Poser user haha.

DS 4 is nice so far but....

• I hate the Information disaster from DAZ. One Day the Plugin is in the Advanced, the next no ...

• The biggest error is in my view that DS4 is not complete at release. (Ok, not the Plugins but they should release the normal and the Advanced at the same time.) And Genesis (V5,A5.. Morphs) are not aviable at release ? Genesis is without morphs not realy much to work with.

Ok, now i have Poser 8 and can wait a lot longer :)

I hope that you understand what i wrote ;)
My English is not the best (writing)

I think that the present free DS4 and figure is a very general wide distribution beta release, even if that is not what it is called. Responses may help in the last details of developement. By many of the responses, I can conclude that the products are not finished.

I think this was released to preempt any anouncement of releases by SM/Poser.  As such it is a place-keeper to keep people interested until DS and Genesis are more developed.

I have no problem with DAZ3D releasing DS4 and Genesis before they are fully developed and functional. I hope this leads to stable and useful products that will satisfy their customers. I am not interested in DS and DS dependent products any more than I am interested in Carrara and its dependent products. It does not bother me that DAZ continues to develop these lines of products especially if the products satisfy the needs of some users.

If the developement of Poser should one day end, there is a very useful product positioned to take its place, in which interest is already growing. It is called Blender, and it is free. Sadly for DAZ , the future demise of Poser, should it ever happen, would not bring many Pose customers to them as we have already decided against their non-Poser compatable products.

lmk

I've never used Daz Studio, but I have to admit that their latest video looks nice.

http://www.youtube.com/user/WWWDAZ3DCOM

Looking at the amazing morphing Genesis promos, I, of course, couldn't help but think of this: http://carodan.blackraven3d.com/freestuff/ColeADS2.wmv

Quote - I've never used Daz Studio, but I have to admit that their latest video looks nice.

http://www.youtube.com/user/WWWDAZ3DCOM

i like how they fixed the streched UV's. by having so different shapes on teh figures the original UV's wouldnt work. but i can see that you can change the UV's for different shapes. this is great. i also see that bending is better.
and it also looks like that clothing from old figures will also work here.

lets hope this will work in poser.

Quote - > Quote - If you need DS4 to use it, then ultimately people will migrate to DS4, if not then things will stay more or less as they are. John

One of the few things I disagree with you on John..lolol. I don't think people will switch to DS en masse just to use Genesis. I really don't. I know I won't ;). I like my Poser. I plan to stay with it, no matter if there is a Vicky 5 I can use in it or not...lol. I don't think I'm alone ;).

Laurie

You are by far, NOT alone :)

I also feel this is a strategic mistake but it no longer affects me.  The Poser community is resilient too.

I think the genesis idea takes away from a lot of potential products as I truly feel that folks (speaking generally) will be more inclined to just get by with "Fit To" plugin (or whatever the name) conversions of V4 clothing.  Besides skins, I just don't see that much of a market and if genesis is able to adopt those as well... what is left?

I have tried very hard to not be on one side or the other but there's really nothing for me in DS 4 or in the genesis line.  I have always leaned greatly towards Poser but tried when it's possible to support Studio.  Now there's going to be serious pressure to be on one side of the other.  deep sigh

I suppose that I always knew that it was inevitable.  No matter what, it's going to be an interesting year, for sure.

Quote - so is it now easy to set up in DS 4 and automated?

I've just 'discovered' the GI plugin in DS4. There wasn't any in the free version of DS3.

I use a different plugin in DS3 and have only played with Uberenvironment2 for a few minutes but found it very easy to use. Loading, features and quality can all be done with single click scripts.

You can still drill down into the parameters if you really want to.

There's even a script to convert your HDR file to a compatible TIF format!

Quote - I suppose that I always knew that it was inevitable.  No matter what, it's going to be an interesting year, for sure.

Yep, it is ;).

I have to admit that, when I really sit and think about it, I almost hope that V5 won't work in Poser. What's that you say? Well, yes it would be easier if V5 works and things continue as they are. But it would also open the doors for other modelers, other figures. I can't see that as a bad thing. There are most certainly enough ultra talented people in this community to get the job done ;).

Laurie

Quote - > Quote - I suppose that I always knew that it was inevitable.  No matter what, it's going to be an interesting year, for sure.

Yep, it is ;).

I have to admit that, when I really sit and think about it, I almost hope that V5 won't work in Poser. What's that you say? Well, yes it would be easier if V5 works and things continue as they are. But it would also open the doors for other modelers, other figures. I can't see that as a bad thing. There are most certainly enough ultra talented people in this community to get the job done ;).

Laurie

Don't feel too bad. I kind of feel the same way. In fact, what would really please me is if Poser came out with a figure that would rival at least V4 in quality. It would be interesting to see how the community would react.

Quote - Don't feel too bad. I kind of feel the same way. In fact, what would really please me is if Poser came out with a figure that would rival at least V4 in quality. It would be interesting to see how the community would react.

The community would react the usual way... Like many are reacting to DS4 now, V4 before that, or to Miki 3 recently.

Poser 8 already offers better rigging options (capsule falloff zones), but is there anyone using them?
I assume better rigging may mean loss of backwards compatibility, so many won't go for it.
Unless there is some easy way to transfer new, better rigging to old figures/clothes.
And, the better rigging has to be available for all past Poser versions, otherwise all Poser 4 users will threaten to dump Poser in favor of... lol  

is there any capsule falloff zones tutorial ?

Poser 4 users? Who cares about them? lolol. I mean, really - let's get with the 21st century ;).

I'm kidding of course, but I stopped making anything I do Poser 4 compatible years ago...lol. The farthest back I go is Poser 6.

Laurie

when a poser 4 user wants new figures in 2011 to not use new technology i want to  slap them. where does this end?

Quote - is there any capsule falloff zones tutorial ?

I haven't seen any... only what's in the Poser 8 manual.

Quote - is there any capsule falloff zones tutorial ?

Any Joint Editor tutorial should do. The Capsule Falloff Zones are just as easy to manipulate as the original Inner & Outter Mat Falloff Zones.

Quote - Unless there is some easy way to transfer new, better rigging to old figures/clothes.And, the better rigging has to be available for all past Poser versions, otherwise all Poser 4 users will threaten to dump Poser in favor of... lol

I realize that this is very tongue-in-check but it's just not technologically feasable.  It it were possible to transfer the new rigging to old versions of Poser, someone would have done it.  It would require program updates all the way back Poser 6 or 4 or whatever.

Except for creative product designs, you can't have new features in old versions of Poser.  By the same right DAZ is not going to retro-fit DAZ Studio 2 or 3 to use new features or Genesis technology.  Is it possible? Sure!  Is it probable? No.

every figure can use new rigging. you just have to start from beginning. the body mesh can stay the same.

this is how Ryan does in DS4, iffn anyone is interested.

There are 5 versions of P8. Which one are you using?

:rolleyes:  me?

i bought this one: 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002KMQ8WU

and installed the service pack from smith micro.

"the" service pack depends on when you got "the" service pack.

Did you install SR1, SR2, SR3, or SR3.1?

I'm asking because I thought I had read that single axis scaling was no longer a problem.

and this is Olivia in DS4 with the uber environment light

I may have misunderstood the status of the scaling problem.

http://forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=153329&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=&sid=5033bbd6a09e2a9331f58b2de8447f3a&flatnum=1

i d/l the service pack the week of May 20th. 

there's one good thing about posting everything that happens in my life, i can date/line stuff.

Attached Link: http://support.smithmicro.com/

Olivia looks good in that light environment

Quote - It's our understanding from beta reports that the scaling issue has been resolved with the latest Service Releases applied to both Poser 8 and Pro 2010. If there are still isues, after those SR's have been applied, please let our tech support team know.

The only "scaling issue" that was solved was the fact that conforming clothing can now also be conformed to scaled figures without defaulting to 100% of it's size everytime.(As long as it is first resaved to the Poser library with the appropriate settings)

The different handling in single-axis scaling between Poser and Studio (And so, among others, Kids-4 greatly reduced usefullness in Poser) were, AFAIK, never seen as something possible to fix without completely changing Poser's rigging system.

And therefore there was never any attempt to fix it.

People in the fora regularly confused both problems though and started to argue even though I posted detailed screenshots, and after a while I simply got tired trying to explain the differences.

And just for the record, Kids-4's scaling problems are entirely DAZ' fault.

Single axis scaling works without problen in Poser as long as the figure is properly rigged.

Unfortunately the (pre-Genesis) DAZ style rigging is more "forgiving" than the Poser rigging, so you can get by cutting quite a few corners and DAZ seemed to think the necessary extra work to achieve full Poser functionality to be not worth the effort.

Well, all this is moot anyway, now.

Exactly Joe - I conflated the two issues and had a shelf in my mind marked "solved" - was the wrong shelf.