I suspect what you might be able to say, eventually, and smiling I am.

:thumbupboth:

Ok, you just piqued my interest Mike....lolol. I'm smiling too!

Laurie

Quote - Just had a look on the site, Laurie - I was going to actually take the time/make the effort and tell them there at Daz why I've cancelled my PC membership, but to be honest, it's not an easy thing to do. I mean, where do I go? site feedback? There's nothing specific to PC club. Yeah, you can stop the auto-payments but they don't seem to care if you do or don't.

You could post it in the PC forum.  I'm on annual, so I'm there till next April...

 

BTW, I see from the Newsletter they are holding Stephanie 5 hostage...

WandW... how is that? (I don't get the newsletter)

Quote - > Quote - Just had a look on the site, Laurie - I was going to actually take the time/make the effort and tell them there at Daz why I've cancelled my PC membership, but to be honest, it's not an easy thing to do. I mean, where do I go? site feedback? There's nothing specific to PC club. Yeah, you can stop the auto-payments but they don't seem to care if you do or don't.

You could post it in the PC forum.  I'm on annual, so I'm there till next April...

BTW, I see from the Newsletter they are holding Stephanie 5 hostage...

Oh, I'm not considered a very positive force on their forums, particularly after my detailed explanations of why DS4 probably won't be a consideration based on my experiences with DS3Adv. No, "leper" would have a more positive spin to what they think of me as. :biggrin: I don't think I'm particularly welcome there, and, to be honest, I'd be surprised if anything I had to say about why I dropped my PC membership would have all that much credibility in that glee club.

It's okay. They are happy little consumers and I'm a cobbler. Different mindset.

Quote - WandW... how is that? (I don't get the newsletter)

S4 for Genesis is currently being given away with the M4/V4 for Genesis combo; The last newsletter I got said that when the promotion is over, the Stephanie shape would become "unavailable"...

I like the threats used to induce people :lol:

Threats? Did you mean "threads"? What do you mean, Mike?

I've found posting on there a very tight-lipped experience: you don't want to say anything disparaging about Daz and their policies or the software behaviour or really anything or you get bitten to death by wild Daz fanbois.

I mean like "Buy now cause if you dont you are never going to get Stephanie 4"  typical. Ya right it will be out again as soon as they get what they can out of this ploy.

Its not really much of a loss to DAZ.

Everybody that wants S4 must have the old S4 by now and anyone who misses the offer for Genesis S4 will only have to wait for S5. Assuming there will be a fifth generation of each DAZ character.

Or they can just pick up the weight mapped version for Poser for free when it is finished. :)

Quote - Or they can just pick up the weight mapped version for Poser for free when it is finished. :)

Thats Cheeky :biggrin:

I'm wondering how I'd get that out of Poser and into DS.

I'm now thinking the decision not to support DSF in P9 was more of an unfriendly act than it first appeared.

Quote - > Quote - Or they can just pick up the weight mapped version for Poser for free when it is finished. :)

Thats Cheeky :biggrin:

I'm wondering how I'd get that out of Poser and into DS.

I'm now thinking the decision not to support DSF in P9 was more of an unfriendly act than it first appeared.

... as unfriendly an act for Genesis developers to make a product that requires DS4 in order to get full functionality? or for them to develop a format - DSF - that Poser didn't natively support? Let's not go there. I doubt that that's what Daz was thinking any more than what SM was thinking: they're just off in their development world and cross-compatibility is pretty much not on the "Let's-Not-Forget" list: so many more important things to make sure are working right.

I've pretty much put a big X on anything coming from DAZ based on Optitex and Genesis being all the rage, none of which works natively in Poser, and will save my pennies to buy non-organic stuff on the odd occasion it doesn't already resemble something I already have. That I can get into Poser no dramas, as long as the shaders become an issue, and even then: there's always a BB solution for just about any material anyone can come up with.

Doesn't the creation of the DSF format suggest that 'cross-compatibility' was exactly what they were thinking about?

You can give SM the benefit of the doubt and perhaps they are just waiting to see if there is demand for DSF support. In which case you should let SM know. Even monoliths like Adobe support other formats!

I don't know anything about the specific formats.

Was there a way, beforehand, for DAZ to know how the CR2 format would be extended to include P9 features?

Does the new CR2/PZ3 have the all the features DAZ requires?

So Poser users have lost a bit of their special status over at DAZ, your just joining the rest of us trying to get stuff out of DS. They don't support Cinema either!

I am not trying to get anything out of DS, I could care less. There will be plenty of upcoming figures and clothing for Poser that have nothing at all to do with DS.

And requiring any company to tie themselves to your exclusive propriatory format and other pay for apps just to use your product is just plain stupid. Unless it was planned that way knowing full well that SM could not possibly tie their company to such nonsense. Merely a means to try to grab more market share by getting users to switch.

your resonings fall flat. And we know full well why you are really here in the Poser forums.

I've only ever used the free versions of DS. (yes, I'm cheap )

I use them to get content into Cinema. (well, not that cheap)

My reasoning is, I see lots (probably most) content creators are Poser based.

Purely for selfish reasons, I want you to get V5 into Poser and then get all that lovely new content out again to DS so I can use it.

Does anyone really want to lose access to that content (or that market) because of 'a little local difficulty'?

Should it matter to us if one, or the other, or both are tied to each others proprietary formats?

It all sounds suspiciously like some cable one door to door salesman.  "Hi Iknow you have direct tv but we would like you to switch lookit all we got, yadda yadda yadda, Oh and by the way we have added coercion and threats to our repetroir"

NO you are wasting your time.

 

The ball is in the Daz court personally I hope they drop it, maybe we can finally have some peace in the Poser forums. All the constant militant recruitment crap gets old.

OK folks....actually, when it comes down to it, us users (of either program) really know nothing. We're just fighting about perceived slights. No one can tell by the tone of any average Poser user, Smith Micro's intentions. And no one can tell by some of Daz's actions of late what they really have planned. Unless you want to fight over perceptions rather than facts, then continue...lol.

We will just have to wait and see what will be. THEN we can beat each other senseless...lol. I have a funny feeling that a converter at least will appear and then we can all shut up and get back to normal. ;)

Laurie

Quote - OK folks....actually, when it comes down to it, us users (of either program) really know nothing. We're just fighting about perceived slights. No one can tell by the tone of any average Poser user, Smith Micro's intentions. And no one can tell by some of Daz's actions of late what they really have planned. Unless you want to fight over perceptions rather than facts, then continue...lol.

Laurie

Which was my point, Laurie. I seriously doubt that what seems to create such angst in end-users (SM or DAZ) is really all that big a deal to either company. They have their objectives, and cross-compatibility - whether DAZ or SM - doesn't appear to be a really big factor. To either of them. So, for us to make angry assumptions about their intentions (because we're not happy that cross-compatibility is not as important to them as it is to us) is a bit near-sighted. They don't care. We shouldn't spend any energy caring either.

Go with what you can get out of either one. I'm sticking with SM for my base application because at the end of the day, there's more flexible bang-for-the-buck. I don't have to pay for a lot of Python stuff people are writing to extend my favourite app. I like that.

Quote - Go with what you can get out of either one. I'm sticking with SM for my base application because at the end of the day, there's more flexible bang-for-the-buck. I don't have to pay for a lot of Python stuff people are writing to extend my favourite app. I like that.

Me too ;). I just find it odd that some would assume that SM is just being a bitch simply from the tone of it's users (who don't know anything more than they do) :P.

Laurie

Quote - > Quote - Go with what you can get out of either one. I'm sticking with SM for my base application because at the end of the day, there's more flexible bang-for-the-buck. I don't have to pay for a lot of Python stuff people are writing to extend my favourite app. I likethat.

Me too ;). I just find it odd that some would assume that SM is just being a bitch simply from the tone of it's users (who don't know anything more than they do) :P.

Laurie

Folks tend to take stuff personally. They're both companies, fer cryin' out loud. And they have their vision about where they want to go. Up to us to make it all work.Just like it's always been, really. After all, isn't this what Poser's been about since day 1? making stuff work?

I so want to learn this weight-mapping feature SM is including: I reckon it's gonna be hot. And we're not limited to one figure set: you name it, we can do weight-mapping magic to it. Brad? Steph 4? Antonia? Victoria 1? Angela? WOW, I seriously LIKE this! What till Terai Yuki  gets a taste of this... :biggrin: :woot:

ETA: what the heck am I still doing up? It's 1:30 in the morning on a school night... sheesh. Been editing my step-daughter's 21st birthday piccies in PS (CS3) - my eyes are starting to bubble... :tongue1: :blink:

Hmmm...Angela could use some weight mapping too ;)

Laurie

Quote - Hmmm...Angela could use some weight mapping too ;)

Laurie

 

That sounds so politically incorrect!

"Darling, does my butt looked weight mapped in this?" 

LOL...

"Honey, your weight mapping is knocking lamps off the table"

:P

Laurie

S/M is updating Poser to P9/PP2012 with some really powerful new features (and seems inclined for more future developement as well). The Poser community has a whole lot of very smart, inventive, talented, generous, and helpful people who can and will assist me to use these new features. There will be ways to update content, updated content, and new content to take advantage of the overflowing newness. I want and expect TUTORIALS. Some of this will be gratis, some I will have to spend money to get utilities and applications, so that I can do for myself what I can, and some of it I will have to buy. The future for me as a Poser user looks very bright, and it would be hard for me to be happier. :)

DAZ wants to try and develop their application, D/S, in some different directions from Poser, and have some content that takes advantage of their application’s features. This means at least some incompatibility with the old and new Poser programs. They believe this will be profitable for them, and I hope it will be. They now have, what, a half dozen products that are about as incompatible as the new D/S and Poser? I don't understand this logic, but S/M also has some products that don't exactly mesh at the basic level. I would have thought that complementary applications would be a plus, rather than producing in house competing products, but I guess market pressures paint companies into untenable corners. <shrug.>

DAZ often produces what goes for top-of-the-line content (not that it is nearly the best that could be done, but because it is effectively the best that IS done and that also gets wide support). If they produce content that will work in Poser, or can be converted to work in Poser for a reasonable amount of cost and effort, then I will buy what I like and want. If not, I have 30+ runtimes filled with content, a lifetime membership at PoserWorld, and the money to buy content from other vendors. As I said, this seems like a very bright future for me. :)

I believe, and hope, that DAZ and S/M can take care of themselves, and so do not need me to defend them (as if they would notice much one way or the other). I do worry for content providers, programmers, and the professionals artists who develop for and use Poser and D/S. As an integral part of the Poser/DAZ community, upon whom at least part of the profitability of these companies depend, I am not sure that enough thought has been given to their well being. :( I see this as a poor business decision. I hope the tools become available to assist these small business people, and make it possible for them to support multiple platforms and figures. They are part of the bright future I anticipate.

For those people who want to use D/S and Genesis, I hope they will enjoy their application and content. I cannot see how that would diminish my enjoyment of Poser in the slightest. I don’t mind some friendly rivalry, and I like good art, so I would like to see what they can do. The competition from DAZ and D/S is good for Poser and Poser users. I see no way at this point or in the near future for either application to become dominant.

Seeing that so much will change in about a month when the new Poser versions are released, I prefer to look forward to PoserPro 2012, and to get as ready as I can for it. I want to hear from the beta-team, and the Poser staff. I want to learn more about these features, and to know what products will accompany the release of these programs. I want to see renders NOW from those who have the programs. I would rather focus on Poser than be distracted by DAZ, D/S, and Genesis (unless they have something to offer to me as a Poser user that they do not now have to contribute).

Of course, the give and take between camps is mildly diverting, and the speculations are somewhat entertaining. So, if this is amusing a lot of people, I guess there is no harm done, even though nothing is actually being accomplished by it. I will occasionally wrap up in a blanket, grab my pennant to wave, and sit in the bleachers. Way to go team, and all that...

lmk

All fine and good but it is also very rude and trollish for users of another app to flock in to the poser forums every time there is a new release to tell us our app is crap and we should switch for this reason or another. I never say a word at Daz3D (although there are those who do) It would be nice to have somewhere to go to congregate and just be free from that kind of behaivior. People here are snappish? Well is it any wonder?

It is not long befor you start anticipating the return of the vultures each time there is a new release on the horison. From the looks of things here I gather most people just stay home and dont come into the forums during these times. Prudent.

Extremely well-written, lmk... my feeling exactly. You were able to put it all so much more succinctly that I was.

It's Monday morning here in Oz, and I'm realising it's about a month away, my shiny new toy. I've actually got a couple of weeks off work starting the Monday before release date: boy -howdy-, is there gonna ba a party here! :biggrin:

i am ( or was) an avid DS user, only got Poser because i needed it as a beta tester.

i still love using DS3A, bought many plug-ins for it ( and DS2). but i will not be upgrading to DS4, in any form. tried it, hate it. i was very vocal in the forums at DAZ over the complete mess they had made of my favourite 'go-to' app. DS4 has the same bugs in it now, as it did in pre-release beta. reporters were basically ignored unless it was something that DAZ wanted to hear.

another point of contention is the CMS, those of us who really know how to dissect code have found that the way it as been developed is to look for 'AllPorts' instead of just the internal ports it needs to function. in actual fact it 'pings' all the external ports long before it tries any internal port for access to the database. so if your firewall is not configured correctly( most hobby users won't know how to do that) your rig may be left open to anything that drives by.

also, there was no need for it to install as a Windows service( no other database i know of requires that) the reason for it is very clear, it was EASIER to code it as a service, instead of doing the job properly. ( basically they have cut and pasted code together from various sources and fudged it just enough to get it working)

i also stopped my PC membership, as i could see that the way things were going that less and less content would be in that category. PC members will get less for their money in the future, as less and less of the older content will be available and the new stuff will likely by mostly Genesis format.

i will be upgrading my Poser, if i can afford it, as DS is/will be uneconomical to upgrade to the equivalent i have in DS3A. even if i could stand the b****** awful GUI.

 

Don't hold back 3...let us know how you really feel...LOL.

Well, as one door slowly seems to slide shut, other, more exciting doors are standing ajar (been so for a while, I reckon) - time to start thinking about what we want to see happen in our artform. I've actually sort-of followed Laurie's way of thinking about getting more au-fay with the current way of doing things in terms of like rigging and controlling more than one regions or zone or whatever they're called.

No question in my mind at least that Diogenes has a world of rigging experience of figures - see Antonia and Brad run! - some of which skills which must have sort-of kicked in during his recent play with weight-mapping. Or no? Think it's a good idea to get at least a working knowledge how all that stuff... er... works?

ETA: stuff like this?

http://rubicondigital.host22.com/index.php/articles/poserdazstudio/3-creating-articulated-figures-for-poser

DAZ ate my lunch! Lucy pulled the ball out from in front of me! I'm gonna go eat a can of worms! Poser! Poser! Poser!

That is a neat tutorial.  I too will be getting my muffin to work on learning more.  The cloth and hair rooms that I have avoided so far will have to be entered and explored, I am thinking.