"No longer the need to worry about if it will work in both apps, I am only concerned with how well it works in Poser."

That's an interesting attitude considering that DAZ is at least making an effort to get their figure to work for you guys - what you really mean is "DAZ screwed us, we'll screw them" (meaning DS users).

SnowS

reads snowsultans post.

*and just facepalms and walks away.

Quote - daz wrote that in a hurry and I don't think it was quite meant to say what it seems to say

"V5 will not "work" in poser like she works in DS4... But you will be able to use Genesis with all it's morphs... Including V5... in Poser very soon. "

I take this to mean you will soon be able to use genesis with all it's moprhs, and V5 in poser

well I could be wrong and it may be just a morph of genesis but the other part of the message said"

V5, like genesis, is exquisitely weight mapped, which means more tasty joint bending goodness... Now with realism! "

I bolded the word like to show you the relevant part of the sentence.

Read again...this will all be done with the exporter. But you still have to set it up in DS4 first. Deal breaker. ;).

Laurie

Quote - "No longer the need to worry about if it will work in both apps, I am only concerned with how well it works in Poser."

 

That's an interesting attitude considering that DAZ is at least making an effort to get their figure to work for you guys - what you really mean is "DAZ screwed us, we'll screw them" (meaning DS users).

 

SnowS

A friend of mine noted: "The Nigerian scammers are making an effort...why don't we support them?" Supporting Daz simply because they made an exporter is nonsense ;). Nobody is trying to screw anybody. Poser users just don't want to jump thru hoops to get a figure working in Poser. They, like DS users, want one-click usage.

The fact that Daz has an exporter that still needs DS4 is a half gesture at best. And they didn't have to make it at all as far as I'm concerned. I wish they would just drop Poser support all together and we all can go our separate ways ;).

My main reason for not going the DS/Exporter/Poser route is because I already have enough shit to play with. I don't need, nor can afford more of it...LOL.

Laurie

Quote - "No longer the need to worry about if it will work in both apps, I am only concerned with how well it works in Poser."

 

That's an interesting attitude considering that DAZ is at least making an effort to get their figure to work for you guys - what you really mean is "DAZ screwed us, we'll screw them" (meaning DS users).

 

SnowS

How are we "screwing" DAZ exactly? Because we're not buying content for a figure that we can't use in the program of our choice? Because we're looking for alternate figures to use? There's a reason why "DAZ soon" is considered a joke, you know. How long before DAZ finally got a working Mac version for Dynamic cloth plugin?

No one's trying to screw DAZ.

What exactly was wrong with my post Khai? I love the hypocrisy here...you complain about DAZ leaving Poser users out in the cold but proudly announce that you won't even attempt to make your figure work for DAZ Studio users? Like I said, DAZ is at least making the attempt - it may not be one that will work for you -  but they're trying. You apparently have no intention of even doing that.

SnowS

I'm complaining about what?

erm.. could you quote me? please? where I said that? plllllleeeaaasseeeee? go on... you know you want to......

Didn't mean you specifically, I meant the usual complainers. BTW, are you the same Khai over at FG Plus or a different one? I remember seeing just a "Khai" here with a black and white avatar. Thanks.

Quote - What exactly was wrong with my post Khai? I love the hypocrisy here...you complain about DAZ leaving Poser users out in the cold but proudly announce that you won't even attempt to make your figure work for DAZ Studio users? Like I said, DAZ is at least making the attempt - it may not be one that will work for you -  but they're trying. You apparently have no intention of even doing that.

 

SnowS

No complaints here, I am quite happy with daz decision to do just exactly what I intend to do. 

As so elequently stated by wolf359 up there. 

"but it does prove  that ,Like DAZ&Genesis,
you will only get true 100 percent functionalityof features within the program for which they were written  no big Surprise here."

I intend to make figure which work as well as possible in Poser.

They are coming

no, I'm a totally different Khai. the Khai over there is a right sod who can't be trusted with a smart mouth. he's a real ass I tell ya. all he does is get me in trouble all the time.

god I hate him. but what can I do about it? not much it seems...

I'm sure you will do a good job, although I do not share your optimism when it comes to support. Hopefully the figure will work as well in DAZ Studio as Genesis will in Poser so that no one is truly left out from using the figure they like best.

" the Khai over there is a right sod who can't be trusted with a smart mouth. he's a real ass I tell ya."

LOL, I'll...refrain from commenting further on that.  ;)

...actually Snowy. I am the same Khai. thanks for keeping tabs on me. I also goto Gizmodo, I09, Sketchucation, and a few other places. want the complete list to save you time?

sorry I don't like anyone checking up on me even if it's innocent. don't do it again.

Heh, that's why I refrained from commenting further, I had a feeling it was you. Some of you guys like to assume that people from DAZ are "checking up on you" or stalking you, believe me I have better things to do. Can't blame someone for recognizing the particuarly vocal, opinionated, or annoying members of any group though.

SnowS

don't flatter yourself. it's not Some of you guys like to assume that people from DAZ are "checking up on you" or stalking you"

I don't like ppl doing that PERIOD. it's that simple. I don't go checking where you go, don't do it to me. I don't care if Daz, you or your local vicar does it. understand?

it's a personal dislike I've had since before daz, RO, etc even existed.

I know of at least two people who are constantly saying that people from DAZ are stalking them (which of course is BS), so don't give me that.

And I'm not checking where you go, I simply asked if you were the same person as one I saw on another forum. Normally that isn't a question worth exploding over.

no explosion at all. I just want you not to do it and I told you that. I'm actually very calm drinking a glass of milk here.

just don't do it ok?

Wouldn't be a reason for me to do so again anyway, I just remember having discussions with a Khai here and wondered if it was the same one.

Well, you know... if noone ever tries, nothing will ever happen.  I think that might even suit some folks.  No blurry lines.  Everything is black or white.  Just throw it all behind one thing so there's never any risk.

Seems kind of dull to me. :)

I guess I'm not used to starting the with idea of "can't".  And no I'll never give up either.  I just need to practice more "nodding" in the forums.  Nod and do it anyways :P

Daz people: please get used to the fact that Poser people are not dependent on your products. We can make our own. And are doing so. I know this is a bitter pill for you to swallow, but as Laurie said: having to use DS4 for any purpose is very much a deal-breaker for me too... particularly when people associated with Daz act the way you do.

Please have some consideration of our effort. We do not promote Poser products like Morphing Clothes or Wardrobe Wizard or anything else specialised to Poser on the Daz forums. We expect the same courtesy.

This thread was about V5, so I assumed it would be fair to talk about V5 in it.

"We expect the same courtesy."

And it would have been nice if the V5 preview thread at DAZ wasn't immediately filled with Poser users complaining about how it won't work for them, but you know how it goes. It's never my intention to push DS or Genesis on you, but just as the topic of Poser compatibility comes up at DAZ, it shouldn't be a big deal if DAZ products come up in conversation here or elsewhere.

SnowS

I recall being laughed at when noticing a couple of years back (when still very active around here) that one day DAZ would start making figures that wouldn't work in Poser (as is), but only really work well in DS.

Now I'm hoping for all of you that all the merchants out there who create clothes for Poser & DS will not jump ship as well and drop support of Poser in favour of  DS. DS only items are popping up more and more and if DAZ succeeds in loosening themselves completely from Poser, I wonder if the Poser community has enough commited merchants to keep the boat afloat. Make no mistake..... DAZ once used to need Poser users, it won't be long before they don't need them anymore. DAZ has won over enough people and is reaching enough new people to expand their business. On the contrary even while we have new versions of Poser, Smith Micro doesn't seem to expand in the rate DS does with DAZ. Poser sales depend heavily upon DAZ content and I seriously doubt Poser can stand on it's own. If DAZ finally pulls the plug and Smith Micro continues in their set ways, what will be left of Poser?

That's not the case yet, but things are shifting more and more. If we like it or not, DAZ is more and more forcing people to make a choice, I don't blame them, it was obvious when they started developing DS that they wanted to be completely independant. To be honest who wants to buy V5 anyway? All we do is getting new figures, buying the same clothes we've had for years once again and then rendering the same images we've been rendering before. This market is so saturated with content, that a new figure doesn't bring anything new at all, just the same old content in a new jacket. Just look at our runtimes...... most of us haven't even used at least half of the stuff that's in it. We're storing up content and by the time we get around to use it, the next figure has been released and we start all over again.

"Just look at our runtimes...... most of us haven't even used at least half of the stuff that's in it. We're storing up content and by the time we get around to use it, the next figure has been released and we start all over again."

That's definitely true no matter which program you use. Most of what I buy (and don't use) is because it was on sale, and I imagine many others buy things they may not use for the same reason.

I do think Poser will last, but I think it's tough to know what the content market will look like if there is a definite split. Still wish it didn't have to split, but it's looking that way.

SnowS

I don't see why there is any argument. 

DAZ user have Genesis.

DAZ and Poser users will have Genesis via the CR2 bridge.

Poser users will have whatever characters Phantom3D chooses to convert.

So everyone has what they want and don't have to use figures they don't like.

Regarding vendors,  Phantom3D makes his position quite clear

Quote - Befor we start in with "You'll never get any support" line. If the current vendors and merchants will not support anything but daz, then we need new merchants, not a hard problem to solve.

If something does not work in Poser, then it is of no use to me.

All the best.

LROG

I am not a Daz person, but I will say this. Brand loyalty is just punishing yourself. Genesis offers figure features I can only dream about in Poser. So what, I must give up all that convenience for brand loyalty? That just does not make sense. I use what gets me the best results. So far in terms of Figures+weightmapping and bending, Genesis cannot be touched. The blending of various character morphs from multiple figure bases, multiple UV use, Muscle flexing, is a clear winner. Why settle for something sub-par? Out of loyalty?What if the new poser didn't support weightmaps at all? Would you still stick by it and sacrifice the chance to use new technology just because its from Daz? Genesis is the figure benchmark. Unless I see an alternative that matches it in terms of quality, flexiblity and ease of use, I see no reason to use older converted WM figures. I will still do my renders in Poser, I love the material room too much, But in terms of figure use, Genesis is the logical choice. It makes sense using a figure designed for weightmaps rather than one being converted to one. You can expect problems. How many poser users do you know that are busy setting up their own weightmaps? Maybe 5-6? Not as easy as advertised. Everybody is sitting back and waiting for one or two individuals to release them. The reality is that Daz has created a one click solution in Genesis, and that is the convenience the masses will be looking for. Nobody wants to convert this or edit that, and unfortunately that is the case with poser weightmapped figures. Right now it's just too much work and to confusing for your average user. Get both apps, and get the best of both worlds. Now don't hate me, I'm just saying it as I see it. I use both apps, and I can see the direction each one is going. Daz has stated that v5 and Genesis will be Poser compatible (read V5 thread at daz) so hopefully that will bring a bit of peace between the camps.

I do think Poser will last, but I think it's tough to know what the content market will look like if there is a definite split. Still wish it didn't have to split, but it's looking that way.

Now lets see, exactly how much has come out for Genesis since it came out, compared to the amount of items that have come out for Poser.

How many freebies have come out for Genesis compared to Poser in the same time limit?

Poser users don't need to worry about anything in the current market.

Learn to make your own content Poser users, it's not as hard as people make out.

If V5 isn't Poser compatible, so what? We have our characters that we are happy with, new ones will appear, so we don't need to be pulled into something that currently won't work.

All the best.

LROG

"The reality is that Daz has created a one click solution in Genesis, and that is the convenience the masses will be looking for."

Well, I don't see having to pose a figure in one app, then export and import and reassign materials and finally render as a one-click solution, but hey, if it counts as that for you, good ON you.

But that's an important point: one-click solutions are what appeal. Sitting here and discussing why we should with detractors is pointless: let's just go and do it.

Quote - Now lets see, exactly how much has come out for Genesis since it came out, compared to the amount of items that have come out for Poser.

How many freebies have come out for Genesis compared to Poser in the same time limit?

The comparison is not valid because almost everything which is not specifically for Genesis is designed for the older rigging types, and is not exclusively for Poser.

A fairer comparison would be , how much has been released for Genesis compared to Poser weight mapped figures. I think it is too early to start making those kinds of comparison, but give it a couple of months, and the results of comparing Genesis content vs Poser weight mapped content will be very interesting.

Agreed, but when you say poser weight-mapped content, then what figures are you specifically talking about? If they are for non daz figures then yes, but if they are for Daz figures, then remember Genesis can use them as well, therefore they wont count. Basically anything V4/m4 also counts as Genesis because it can use those items, providing you have auto-fit of course.

I told you so!

And now, the first I told-you-so (which is the real reason why I still posting in these forums).

...wavy effect on screen...

...do you remember that old thread about Studio 4/Genesis where I wrote that this split was going to be painful and that there would be conflict?

...do you remember the mocking and slandering comments of the DAZ "apologists" who considered a quick and crushing victory of Studio on Poser a sure bet?

...way effect back to reality...

...well, the split IS painful and there IS conflict and, judging from the amount of stars I see... but this is material for another I-told-you-so.

P.S.: probably I am a paranoid in need of medications, but, at least, I am NOT a sorry dickhead.**
**

Quote - I am not a Daz person, but I will say this. Brand loyalty is just punishing yourself. Genesis offers figure features I can only dream about in Poser. So what, I must give up all that convenience for brand loyalty? That just does not make sense. I use what gets me the best results. So far in terms of Figures+weightmapping and bending, Genesis cannot be touched. The blending of various character morphs from multiple figure bases, multiple UV use, Muscle flexing, is a clear winner. Why settle for something sub-par? Out of loyalty?What if the new poser didn't support weightmaps at all? Would you still stick by it and sacrifice the chance to use new technology just because its from Daz? Genesis is the figure benchmark. Unless I see an alternative that matches it in terms of quality, flexiblity and ease of use, I see no reason to use older converted WM figures. I will still do my renders in Poser, I love the material room too much, But in terms of figure use, Genesis is the logical choice. It makes sense using a figure designed for weightmaps rather than one being converted to one. You can expect problems. How many poser users do you know that are busy setting up their own weightmaps? Maybe 5-6? Not as easy as advertised. Everybody is sitting back and waiting for one or two individuals to release them. The reality is that Daz has created a one click solution in Genesis, and that is the convenience the masses will be looking for. Nobody wants to convert this or edit that, and unfortunately that is the case with poser weightmapped figures. Right now it's just too much work and to confusing for your average user. Get both apps, and get the best of both worlds. Now don't hate me, I'm just saying it as I see it. I use both apps, and I can see the direction each one is going. Daz has stated that v5 and Genesis will be Poser compatible (read V5 thread at daz) so hopefully that will bring a bit of peace between the camps.

No one is asking you to give up anything or not use DS4 or Genesis. No one is disputing that Genesis is a good figure. It's just not for everyone. And while you may not have a problem using DS4, some of us do. Frankly, Genesis just doesn't offer all that much for some of us, but yes, we like the weightbending aspect of the figure.

You say that we can expect problems with converted figures. Well, we have had problems with the regular figures, as well, and people still used them. Genesis has problems in Poser,  so frankly I'm just not seeeing your point.

Quote - I told you so!

And now, the first I told-you-so (which is the real reason why I still posting in these forums).

...wavy effect on screen...

...do you remember that old thread about Studio 4/Genesis where I wrote that this split was going to be painful and that there would be conflict?

...do you remember the mocking and slandering comments of the DAZ "apologists" who considered a quick and crushing victory of Studio on Poser a sure bet?

...way effect back to reality...

...well, the split IS painful and there IS conflict and, judging from the amount of stars I see... but this is material for another I-told-you-so.

A self fulfilling prophecy if I ever saw one LOL!

Quote - P.S.: probably I am a paranoid in need of medications, but, at least, I am NOT a sorry dickhead.**
**

I disagree.

No one's asking anyone to give up anything, let alone for brand loyalty.

But it's not really fair to say people have to use something either, is it?  Sure, it would be nice to use all the software ever created, but time and money are limited.  I've tried DS and Bryce, and hated them.  So I'm not going to spend any more time or money on them.  I'm sticking with Poser and Vue.  But I'm not going to tell people they're hurting themselves if they don't like Poser or Vue.  Live and let live.

@Eclarke1894 -  You only dislike Genesis because on multiple occasions you have stated that you cannot get Daz4 to work on your rig. Unless you have actually tried it yourself and made a fair honest comparison, your comments will always come across as biased. You are basing your decision "Its' just not for everyone" on your current situation and your inability to use Genesis. I will rather listen to somebody who has used both and read their viewpoints. And my point was ease of use with regards to weight-mapping figures. And you also state  "we have had problems with the regular figures, as well, and people still used them". That is because there was no other choice, that is all that was on offer at the time. People didn't know about weight-mapping. But now that its here, there are a lot of things to take into consideration.

I disagree with the idea "That only DAZ should get genesis working in Poser", but obviously no one listens to me! :biggrin:

That quote from Randall seems to suggest that is what they have done.

...and that they intend to get V5 into Poser that way instead of the fabled CR2 exporter!

Thats what I read into it but I would have thought that sort of announcement would deserve a huge fanfare, the quote isn't clear, though it does talk about importing 'shapes including V5' into Poser.

The only thing it clarifies is Genesis won't work the same as it does in DS, and we already knew that!

I'm curious to see how much compatibility will be implemented. I really hope that key things such as posing will be possible.

Quote - @ randym77 I agree that it is wrong to force people to use something to get a desired result, but if you want that result bad enough then you have to do what you have to do. End of the day if I see something that I want, I will get it. I don't care if I went to the enemies camp. As long as I benefit end of the day, because that is what matters most.

I agree.  And I don't see DAZ as the enemy.  I've spent ridiculous amounts of money there.

I just don't see anything in Genesis that's enough to make me want to wrestle with Studio again. Maybe that will change in the future.

I just want to know if V5 is something I want and can use.  If DAZ decided to cut off Poser support altogether, I wouldn't hold it against them.  I just want to know.  Not least because I'd have to reconsider my Platinum Club membership.  Again, not to "punish" DAZ for not supporting my favorite software, but because it won't be a smart use of money for me if all the new stuff is going to be DS/Genesis.

"P.S.: probably I am a paranoid in need of medications, but, at least, I am NOT a sorry dickhead."

Ah, the problems of self-diagnosis. Just when I worry that I'm getting carried away, someone raises the bar. 

"Brand loyalty is just punishing yourself."

Too true. In fairness though I think there's more going on than mere brand loyalty. One, the low-mid range 3D figure applications market is pretty much limited to the two players here. Any gain for one is perceived as a loss for the other. Two, the past relationship was that Daz needed Poser to survive. Poser could have survived without Daz. That power equation may or may not be changing, but it makes people uncomfortable.  Beyond brand loyalty, IMO, this is now becoming about betrayal, resentment (rational or not), fear (legitimate or not) and all that stuff Shakesphere liked to riff on.

It used to be fun to make sport of Daz and their products but now, it's gotten serious because we may finally be seeing whether content rules. Frankly, I don't think the masses give a rat's patootie about weight mapping, SubD, SSS etc. They just want the latest Vickie. It's less about the current denizens of their respective armed camps than it is about the next generation. They will look at the applications and the content that each vendor offers and make their decision on which one to support. Oftentimes, technological parity, or even superiority, has taken a backseat to content with consumers (as opposed to aficionados). It’s certainly laudable for the Poser community to contribute to the content side of the equation, but it really should be up to SM to lead that effort. Their decision might just determine whether Poser users find themselves in the position of the defeated slave owner who was greeted by his former bondsman with, "Howdy Massa. Bottom rail on top, this time." Heh, heh, don’t worry, just had to get that quote in somehow ÷) 

Quote - @Eclarke1894 -  You only dislike Genesis because on multiple occasions you have stated that you cannot get Daz4 to work on your rig. Unless you have actually tried it yourself and made a fair honest comparison, your comments will always come across as biased. You are basing your decision "Its' just not for everyone" on your current situation and your inability to use Genesis. I will rather listen to somebody who has used both and read their viewpoints. And my point was ease of use with regards to weight-mapping figures. And you also state  "we have had problems with the regular figures, as well, and people still used them". That is because there was no other choice, that is all that was on offer at the time. People didn't know about weight-mapping. But now that its here, there are a lot of things to take into consideration.

What I've said is that I don't like DS. I have no problems with Genesis other than it's in a program that I can't use and don't want on my machine. Please don't go making up stuff. I've also said that if it was a standalone product without my having to open DS4 everytime I want to use it, I'd be using it. That's not the case though, is it?

EDIT: By the way, it's no big secret that I don't like DS. I never have, and yes, before DAZ brought out DS3 I did try it.  Didn't like the program. DS3 wouldn't open on my machine, and i just didn't bother with DS4.

I never liked the fact that DAZ was making Studio in the first place, as I saw this community split being a possibility even back then.

Personally I hope both get along. It's mainly us users blowing things out of proportion. This Niche market is growing very rapidly and is eating away at the traditional CG space. A fight between the two will just spoil that momentum. I think the turning point will be the release of Genesis exporter for poser. That will either make a lot of people happy or very angry depending on its compatibility.

The comparison is not valid because almost everything which is not specifically for Genesis is designed for the older rigging types, and is not exclusively for Poser.

A fairer comparison would be , how much has been released for Genesis compared to Poser weight mapped figures. I think it is too early to start making those kinds of comparison, but give it a couple of months, and the results of comparing Genesis content vs Poser weight mapped content will be very interesting.

I said for Genesis, I didn't mention weight mapping. So that part of your reply is not valid.

The items that have been brought out for Genesis are reproductions of things that were originally made for V4M4F4 etc. Morphs etc.

Not a lot of original clothing has been brought out for Genesis. No, I'm not on about AutoFit, I'm saying original content for Genesis.

That's likesaying I have loads of content for Miki3 because I have Wardrobe Wizard or XD. Conversions do not count to me.

All the best.

LROG

In that case you are correct. I still feel auto-fit should be moved out of the clothing conversion catagory because it is a lot faster and fully automated. Much like applying v4 clothes onto v4, just that there is an extra menu asking what figure it comes from and what type of clothing it is. Thats just me though. I guess thats why I look at it all as "genesis clothing" because applying gen4 content is as natural as applying genesis clothes.

Quote - "P.S.: probably I am a paranoid in need of medications, but, at least, I am NOT a sorry dickhead."

Ah, the problems of self-diagnosis. Just when I worry that I'm getting carried away, someone raises the bar. 

"Brand loyalty is just punishing yourself."

Too true. In fairness though I think there's more going on than mere brand loyalty. One, the low-mid range 3D figure applications market is pretty much limited to the two players here. Any gain for one is perceived as a loss for the other. Two, the past relationship was that Daz needed Poser to survive. Poser could have survived without Daz. That power equation may or may not be changing, but it makes people uncomfortable.  Beyond brand loyalty, IMO, this is now becoming about betrayal, resentment (rational or not), fear (legitimate or not) and all that stuff Shakesphere liked to riff on.

It used to be fun to make sport of Daz and their products but now, it's gotten serious because we may finally be seeing whether content rules. Frankly, I don't think the masses give a rat's patootie about weight mapping, SubD, SSS etc. They just want the latest Vickie. It's less about the current denizens of their respective armed camps than it is about the next generation. They will look at the applications and the content that each vendor offers and make their decision on which one to support. Oftentimes, technological parity, or even superiority, has taken a backseat to content with consumers (as opposed to aficionados). It’s certainly laudable for the Poser community to contribute to the content side of the equation, but it really should be up to SM to lead that effort. Their decision might just determine whether Poser users find themselves in the position of the defeated slave owner who was greeted by his former bondsman with, "Howdy Massa. Bottom rail on top, this time." Heh, heh, don’t worry, just had to get that quote in somehow ÷) 

Are you talking sense again?

Please stop that immediately! :laugh:

"IMO, this is now becoming about betrayal, resentment (rational or not), fear (legitimate or not) and all that stuff Shakesphere liked to riff on."

yep....

"I don't think the masses give a rat's patootie about weight mapping, SubD, SSS etc. They just want the latest Vickie."

yep

EClark1894 wrote : "I never liked the fact that DAZ was making Studio in the first place"

Well at least you have blatantly confirmed
what many suspected all along.

Cheers

Quote -
EClark1894 wrote : "I never liked the fact that DAZ was making Studio in the first place"

Well at least you have blatantly confirmed
what many suspected all along.

You could have just asked. I'd have been happy to tell you. I know the reasoning behind the decision to do so at the time, but it just never flew with me.

BUT... I've never once criticised or tried to discouraged anyone from using Studio (or Genesis, for that matter) if that was their preference.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Here is the bottom line in my opinion. You are all looking at Gen and V5. You need to think 3 to 5 years out. Up until now Poser could use the latest greatest and most popular characters V3-V4.Now it can't (yet) with Gen Characters and probably will be lacking feature sets that limit it's use in Poser. I liken it to clinging to Beta Max or cassette tapes etc. It is easy to say for a lot of reasons who cares about V5. But think 2-3-5 years from now when V6-V7 is released. Poser will make advancements in Poser 10 and Poser Pro 201x, etc. But if there is no popular content being created that works in the Poser eco-sysytem or the fact that a newbie has to jump thru hoops to make the Daz Characters work or has to buy-get-install a competing software package that is the bigger issue at hand that SM must consider. I got this really great software package and no leading-popular content to use easily in it is not the business model that looks enticing long term to me.

If V5 does not work in Poser, Poser users will start to use figures which do work in Poser. And content will be developed for those because there is a market for those figures. Those figures (new and old) will evolve with features like weightmapping, dependent parameters and a good shader system. After a year of none-DAZ figures most Poser users will have forgotten about DAZ and its figures.

Most of which I get from DAZ nowadays is props and if those disappear I will go somewhere else.

Well put. Exactly my thought. Anytime there is a void in a market, there is an opportunity. And right this very minute, those opportunities are being seized - the development of Poser-friendly figures is happening as we speak. The sooner we Poser Community artists shake ourselves from this dependency on one content maker for a figure, the quicker the vendor support will happen and, as wimvdb so eloquently put it: most Poser users will have forgotten about DAZ and its figures after a period of time.

SM would be relying on 3rd parties to fill the void to insure their software user count does not migrate to studio long term. In the mean time the forum post from a newbee goes like this. "I am new to Poser verX and want to know how to get V5-6-7 into poser to use?" Reply:" Ahh you have to get Daz Studio and their export tool and load into Studio and pose and fit clothes and then export to render in Poser." Their reply: "What? I have to buy another app to use these figures in Poser? Guess I bought the wrong app to start with!"

Older users have the patiences to wait for the void to be filled. I will be plenty satisfied if a V4 and M4 weight mapped product is devised in the not to distant future. My point being that newbees will be confused and SM is hanging their business model on 3rd parties that can come and go and are not employeed by them. Where as the software and the base figure from Utah, comes from under the same roof so to speak. If you were an investor, which business model is more sound?

FWIW, there is no "buying another app" involved, since DAZ says the exporter will be available for the free version. It's not really clear to me why DAZ couldn't just provide a CR2 of base Genesis, V5 etc; I assume there's a technical reason that can't be done.

But in the end, it would provide no more functionality than other weight mapped figures in Poser, except it would have a lower rez mesh. (I do wish Poser would deploy Catmull-Clark.) I guess that will be enough for some people.

grichter, the bulk of DAZ "originals" are developed by 3rd parties that do come and go...

If you removed all the 3rd parties from the equation, there wouldn't be much DAZ (or 3D) content at all.

"Where as the software and the base figure from Utah, comes from under the same roof so to speak. If you were an investor, which business model is more sound?"

Yep. That's why you see content delivery companies either merging with content producers, or making their own ala HBO. Maybe the model (no pun intended) doesn't apply here, I don't know. 

As to new users, compare 1st impressions of smithmicro.com and daz3d.com. The former is a typical, stolid looking corporate software site advertising a slew of disparate products. When you finally click through to the Poser page, (assuming you don't get distracted by Stuffit, Checkit and  Sponge Bob Tooncast Studio), you get a boxshot and some pretty tepid imagery. At Daz, ya got nekkid muscle guys with their skin flayed off, warrior babes spilling out of their armored bodices, freakin' dragons, bright lights, big titties and... The sweetest word in the English language, Free! Free software, free models. Step inside the big top folks, see bodacious Vickie, she walks, she talks, she crawls on her belly like a reptile... Who are Mr. (& yes Ms.) America gonna vote off the island?

Now city folk might laugh at the rubes for gettin' suckered by the hoochie coochie show, (Lara Croft laughed all the way to the bank). The hayseeds may slurp their coffee from a saucer and hang velvet paintings of Elvis in ther double-wides but they vote with their wallets and God musta loved 'em cause he made a boatload.

"Where as the software and the base figure from Utah, comes from under the same roof so to speak. If you were an investor, which business model is more sound?"

Yep. That's why you see content delivery companies either merging with content producers, or making their own ala HBO. Maybe the model (no pun intended) doesn't apply here, I don't know. 

As to new users, compare 1st impressions of smithmicro.com and daz3d.com. The former is a typical, stolid looking corporate software site advertising a slew of disparate products. When you finally click through to the Poser page, (assuming you don't get distracted by Stuffit, Checkit and  Sponge Bob Tooncast Studio), you get a boxshot and some pretty tepid imagery. At Daz, ya got nekkid muscle guys with their skin flayed off, warrior babes spilling out of their armored bodices, freakin' dragons, bright lights, big titties and... The sweetest word in the English language, Free! Free software, free models. Step inside the big top folks, see bodacious Vickie, she walks, she talks, she crawls on her belly like a reptile... Who are Mr. (& yes Ms.) America gonna vote off the island?

Now city folk might laugh at the rubes for gettin' suckered by the hoochie coochie show, (Lara Croft laughed all the way to the bank). The hayseeds may slurp their coffee from a saucer and hang velvet paintings of Elvis in ther double-wides but they vote with their wallets and God musta loved 'em cause he made a boatload.