I didn't say it wouldn't scan, though it may not, I said that nothing indicated that that would be a mandatory process, something you would have to enable or be locked from using your content. Obviously the Devil will be in the detail, but so far we don't have the detail and can judge only the broad outline - which doesn't yet appear to be an unavoidably intrusive system.

Quote - Im off on a plane to visit family for the holidays, I will be checking in from time to time, but please dont get too upset if I am scarce. Ill try not to neglect this thread.

Thanks for participating. I really am glad I started this thread.

Happy Holidays everyone, I wish you peace and happiness.

Rand

Wishing you peace and happiness also. Have a nice time with your family!

I install DAZ content to a separate install folder and then copy it to my runtime in the way I like to have it organized.

I noticed that when you start DS4 it wants to add that install folder as a new runtime (although it contains zero content_ and it wants to add that runtime for each item of DAZ content I had installed (multiple times the same folder!)

So it looks like DS4 is keeping track somewhere that content is being installed - even when you do not have the program running. It is very irritating to tick off 12 boxes which I do NOT want to add as a runtime. I assume something similar is going to happen with that appstore paradigm, but then checking for updates as well

Probably installers leave traces in the registry or in some temp file about their passage and DS4 looks for them.

Quote - I didn't say it wouldn't scan, though it may not, I said that nothing indicated that that would be a mandatory process, something you would have to enable or be locked from using your content. Obviously the Devil will be in the detail, but so far we don't have the detail and can judge only the broad outline - which doesn't yet appear to be an unavoidably intrusive system.

Oh it is quite avoidable ;)

@Glitter

I have absolutely no desire to use Antonia, Alyson, or any other third-party non-DAZ figure.

Genesis is a gray blob that can most certainly be made into a feminine woman or a masculine man. Someone apparently doesn't know how to turn dials very well.

I think it's very impressive technology and a well-needed break from the limitations we've long been held to by Poser's system.

DAZ obviously isn't trying to piss off any customers, but they also should not have to sit back and endure the kind of nonsense and lies that certain customers hurl at them on a daily basis. Once again, the vocal, often misinformed, and extremely annoying minority is heard louder than anyone.

But, that's just my opinion.

SnowS

"...sometimes it just make you think that all that energy could go into doing something nice. A happy Yule season to one and all, and that includes ALL Studio, Poser and whatever software you use!!!"

LROG apparently you've been visited by the Christmas spirits. Whether twas the gosts of past, present and future or Old Grandad, I second your wishes. All the best to you and yours!

Antonia: "You've been here longer than any of us Posette, is it always this bad?

Posette: "This is the worst I can remember, but I try to forget."

Aiko: "Do you ever wish you were like them, I mean real, instead of just numbers?"

Victoria: "No, we don't get old or sick and we won't ever die"

Laura: "You'd think because their time is so short they wouldn't spend so much of it fighting.

Maddie: "I don't like it when they fight."

Victoria: "I know dear."

Pu Doll: "Forget humans, open presents!"

Matt: "God bless us every one." 

So much angst over something that's supposed give pleasure. A couple thoughts:

V5 is not the next stage of evolution for Victoria in the same sense as V4 was for V3. Despite the hoopla, hype and bundles marketed for her, V5 is just one of many body/head morphs available for Genesis. Why is this particular body shape worthy of being christened V5? I dunno. Genesis itself is the evolution.

If you don't like or want Genesis (or V4 or Antonia or Poser or Daz Studio or WHATEVER), don't use it. Ignore it. You'll be much happier. It's OK if someone else likes it. Really.

Quote - Hi Blondie! I take it that you ran out of people to shout down on the DAZ boards & decided to take your show on the road.  Your little screed is exactly what we were talking about earlier.

Since you seemed to have missed it, this is DAZ talking to POSER users.  We are explaining to a DAZ representative, who was kind enough to take time out of his day, to come here & address POSER users about where DAZ is going and make suggestions to how POSER users could continue to view DAZ as a valued resource, as opposed to the great satan.

By and large, the Poser users here have spent a great deal of money on DAZ content & we are trying to address our concerns to DAZ.  We want to continue to give money to DAZ so that even rude DAZ PAs such as yourself can still get a piece of that action.

In an earlier post in this thread when I was talking about DAZ vendors needed customer service training, I was talking about YOU.  Thank you for showing up & not letting me down.  Your hostility to Poser users in general is why not only do I no longer purchase your products (as fine as they are), I have actually gone to the trouble of deleting every product you have ever made from my runtimes.

As a DAZ PA, coming onto a POSER forum, and then to a POSER thread to tell POSER users to sit down & shut up is a bit much.  We got it, you think that DAZ poops rainbows.  Some of us don't.  We like DAZ content (not DS4).  We are addressing our concerns to a DAZ rep, not some DAZ fanboi.

Asking DAZ to rethink some of their policies, isn't an unreasonable demand.  It is a way of addressing the positive feedback loop that has been developing on the DAZ boards.

As a final note, Poser users don't seem to view Genesis as "functionality", We seem to view it as a figure.  As does DAZ apparently, seeing as there is a Victoria 5 section in the DAZ store.

And as far as I am concerned, Genesis is a solution in search of a problem.  I am more concerned about the "app store" for content.  Based on DAZ's apparent inability to code, I don't like how an app store would be tied to a product I have no interest in.  Of course, if the next version of DS is better than Poser 2012, then I might have to reconsider; but right now, it isn't even a contest.

First of all-- I AM a POSER user, and have been one since long before DAZ Studio was even an idea.  With one exception, all the products I have made are for POSER.  I have as much right to participate in a POSER forum as any other POSER user does.

Second-- I do not harbor, and have never displayed, "hostility" toward Poser users in general.  No doubt there are some people who have taken offense because I "dared" to disagree with them, or because I spoke plainly and bluntly instead of coating what I said in enough sugar to keep ten bakeries and a candy factory running for a year.   I see no evidence that such people represent "POSER users" in general, or a majority of "POSER users," or even a significant minority of "POSER users."  In fact, I see no evidence that such people reprsent anyone but themselves.

Third-- I did not tell "POSER users" to "sit down and shut up."  I pointed out that continuing to make the same demand, after it has been explained over and over why that demand cannot be met, is not showing "respect."  It is refusing to listen-- the very same thing some people accuse DAZ of doing.

Fourth-- I do not believe that "DAZ poops rainbows."  Nor am I "DAZ fanboi."  I love the way people fling that term around when they can't think of a rational rebuttal to what has been said and wish to disparage the person who said it.  I also wish that everyone here could fully appreciate just how absurd that term is when used in reference to ME so that they could get as much of a laugh out of it as I did.

Fifth-- no, it isn't "unreasonale" to ask DAZ to rethink some of its policies.  However, it is unreasonable to continue making the same demand over and over after DAZ has explained, again and again, why that demand cannot or will not be met. 

Sixth-- yes, Genesis is a figure-- but V5 is merely a morph of Genesis, not a figure on its own, and how anybody "views" it does not change that.  Since Genesis currently cannot work in Poser, neither can V5. 

Seventh-- I agree that the "app store" approach is a seriously bad idea.

OMG...if Vicky dropped off the face of the earth tomorrow I wouldn't cry a drop. Poser users...we really need to get over this and move on. I say...Vicky 5 don't work in Poser? Who gives a rat's petutie? There are OTHER figures. Did V4 just suddenly grow 2 heads or something? Ya'll need to have faith that someone will come along and fill the gap.

Laurie

Randall,

Did Laurie just say "petutie"? :ohmy:

:biggrin:

Quote - Antonia: "You've been here longer than any of us Posette, is it always this bad?

Posette: "This is the worst I can remember, but I try to forget."

Aiko: "Do you ever wish you were like them, I mean real, instead of just numbers?"

Victoria: "No, we don't get old or sick and we won't ever die"

Laura: "You'd think because their time is so short they wouldn't spend so much of it fighting.

Maddie: "I don't like it when they fight."

Victoria: "I know dear."

Pu Doll: "Forget humans, open presents!"

Matt: "God bless us every one." 

 

LIKE BUTTON CLICKED

Dan!

It's true! I went to the Daz Poser forum, was poked, proded, spindled, and laughed at. Worse-one I entered the forum, I was not allowed to leave! Except for restroom breaks. :-) The only way to escape is to download DS4,and be assimilated.

OK, OK, So I was treated to perfectly cordial discussion- but it could have been scary!

Our plan is to trap unsuspecting Poser users and poke at them with a stick but please don't tell anyone ;) Seriously though, we have heard several requests from the community to do it so we thought it would be a good thing to do.

This has been said before and It seems I have to add it again...

Keep this thread on the topic it was posted for. Randall will not be in to answer questions it seems for a little bit. So if you have a question, post it and he will answer it when he can.

Also, attacks on other members are NOT tolerated. This is not a new rule.

Err, I think it's been said several times in this thread already actually but maybe I forget

I do have one question that may be on topic concerning the use of Zip files. As I understand it, the use of installers is preferred over zips because of the ability to put the EULA notice into the installers. If you click no you can't install the program or files as it quits on you. Which is all fine and dandy except that you've paid your money at that point, now you have to either agree to the EULA or jumpp through hoops to get your money refunded.

That said, wouldn't it simply be easier to make the EULA part of the sales process instead? If you refuse to honor the EULA the Sale woulld auto terminate and you couldn't buy the product.

Quote -
So DAZ should have stuck with the abilities of the version of Poser available when they started developing Genesis? 

shrug - they should do whatever they want, IMHO. If it results in a better experience and a better figure, cool - they'll see an increase in users and community, and the CG hobbyist community will migrate to it. If it doesn't work out, they'll find out soon enough and mend their ways as required.

As for the rest? A split between folks who wish they could get that Genesis flexibility into Poser, and folks who have their own agendas either against DAZ or for something else.

As for this mess? I've come to the conclusion that really, Smith Micro should be the ones to get Genesis into Poser if it becomes a consumer priority. Why? Because that's how the software industry usually works... Microsoft is the one who wrote the Open Document Format (.odf) plugins and readers for MS Word - OpenOffice.org didn't write it. Same with .doc capability in Open Office - the folks at OOo wrote the .doc importers and exporters. You name the product type, and it's all the same.

To be honest, there's usually IP licensing involved as well. 

Quote -
As far as I am concernd it isn't up to DAZ to dumb down genesis to get it in to Poser. It is up to smith micro to update Poser to be genesis compatable. Personally I think you all are pointing a finger at the wrong developmental company. When sM changes something in Poser so it doesn't work in Studio, is it up to sM to change it, or DAZ to update studio?

DAZ has always went out of it's way to make it's content Poser compatable. No company that has ever own Poser has done anything to make Poser Studio format compatable.

Heh... exactly :)

Quote - I do have one question that may be on topic concerning the use of Zip files. As I understand it, the use of installers is preferred over zips because of the ability to put the EULA notice into the installers. If you click no you can't install the program or files as it quits on you. Which is all fine and dandy except that you've paid your money at that point, now you have to either agree to the EULA or jumpp through hoops to get your money refunded.

Dude? Welcome to Microsoft. Welcome to Poser. Welcome to DS. Welcome to Maya. Welcome to 3DS Max. Welcome to Modo. Welcome to Lightwave. Welcome to, well, every non-GPL'd proprietary program on the face of the planet. You either agree to a EULA, or it aborts installation. 

Actually, that's not entirely true. Until Poser 8, All of the poser figures were Studio compatible.

Quote - > Quote - I do have one question that may be on topic concerning the use of Zip files. As I understand it, the use of installers is preferred over zips because of the ability to put the EULA notice into the installers. If you click no you can't install the program or files as it quits on you. Which is all fine and dandy except that you've paid your money at that point, now you have to either agree to the EULA or jumpp through hoops to get your money refunded.

 

Dude? Welcome to Microsoft. Welcome to Poser. Welcome to DS. Welcome to Maya. Welcome to 3DS Max. Welcome to Modo. Welcome to Lightwave. Welcome to, well, every non-GPL'd proprietary program on the face of the planet. You either agree to a EULA, or it aborts installation. 

And that makes it better .... how?

"I've come to the conclusion that really, Smith Micro should be the ones to get Genesis into Poser if it becomes a consumer priority. Why? Because that's how the software industry usually works... Microsoft is the one who wrote the Open Document Format (.odf) plugins and readers for MS Word - OpenOffice.org didn't write it. Same with .doc capability in Open Office - the folks at OOo wrote the .doc importers and exporters. You name the product type, and it's all the same."

I agree Completely The problem I see here is one of people who deluded themselves into believe that the old paradigm would endure for eternity.
What Daz is doing with the Platform dependent nature of their Main Figure( genesis) is No Different than
Complex Lightwave rigs that only truly function within Lightwave
or Complex Blender rigs that only truly function in Blender
and the same for MAX ,MAYA , C4D Softimage et al.

For years people Whined  about how poser /DAZ rigs need to improve.
Well you got what you Demanded
INDUSTRY STANDARD weighting but along with that you get the same incompatibilities that have always existed between the aforementioned pro apps.
And to the merchies who are endlessly wailing about all the work involved in developing for genesis  ..Ok we get it
 its not like the simple old Days of poser content dev
but  frankly you have to just suck it up and adopt the required new tools and technics( however cumbersome& Expensive they may be) or find yourself some other line of work...Sorry!!

Just like all the Flash dev people who have to go back and learn  HTML5
or all the Game dev people who seem to have  to learn a new game programming engine seemingly every year or two. .

Time & technology marches on .

Cheers

Tend to agree with E Clark, why not have the EULA part of the sales rather than the install?  Makes sense, no agreement, no sale.  They already know what we bought, no big deal, a purchase requires agreement, or no sale.  Far simpler and more efficient to my way of thinking.

Quote -
but  frankly you have to just suck it up and adopt the required new tools and technics( however cumbersome& Expensive they may be) or find yourself some other line of work...Sorry!!

Or dump Genesis and DAZ completely and make things which Poser can use...

Much less problems and less fighting

Wolf, industry standards are more than two words in any other world.  They convey a compatibility, which so far, the words "weight mapping" are just that, two words and convey no standard. 

Now it's in the lower end stuff, with Poser and Antonia proving it can work extremely well, a different method in DS4, which so far works with one figure. 

In the years I was working, I found two things to be truth.  If a tool is too expensive, it will be a failure in the market.  The second, if a tool is cumbersome, it will not be used.  It's as simple as that. 

There will be those that go with the genesis, more power to them.  There will be others that will go with other figures, more power to them too.  Genesis can do a lot of things, I'm finding that out, but also finding a lot that it can't do well.  I'm also aware that with me putting no money out for plugins for DS that I'm kinda hamstrung, but shortcomings are evident, the workarounds aren't so evident.  They may be there, to those that are in the know and comfortable with DS.  To me, I'm not in the know, and DS is, to me, clumsy and confusing.  One shortcoming, with any program, is to get a newborn infant, I have to use the P4 infant.

re: OMG GET GENESIS INTO POSER!!!11!

Quote - I agree Completely The problem I see here is one of people who deluded themselves into believe that the old paradigm would endure for eternity.

actually the problem is that SM has small profit motivation to do that, while DAZ has immense profit motivation since it's their sold/brokered content at issue

Quote - > Quote -

 

Dude? Welcome to Microsoft. Welcome to Poser. Welcome to DS. Welcome to Maya. Welcome to 3DS Max. Welcome to Modo. Welcome to Lightwave. Welcome to, well, every non-GPL'd proprietary program on the face of the planet. You either agree to a EULA, or it aborts installation. 

And that makes it better .... how?

It has no moral designation - it simply is. DAZ is no different than pretty much everyone else in the CG biz. 

Tell you what - buy a custom figure sometime from a professional. You will usually end up seeing a contract that you must sign, and one that spells out in excruciating detail what you can and cannot do with that custom item.

Rendo/RDNA are aberrations in this, not norms. 

==

Quote - Just like all the Flash dev people who have to go back and learn  HTML5
or all the Game dev people who seem to have  to learn a new game programming engine seemingly every year or two. .

I'd toss in all the .NET programmers who are now faced with the whole new set of paradigms that Windows 8 will throw in their faces. 

'tis progress, and just the way it is. 

Poserdom has lucked out by using base formats and underlying paradigms that haven't changed too awful much since Poser 4 came out, in 1999. Well, apparently things are about to change.

As a merchant you can adapt and overcome, or you can go out of business. Just the way it is, and judging by the stuff cropping up on ShareCG, it looks like others are beginning to step up. Whether or not they'll take over or not depends on time and skill...

===

Quote - actually the problem is that SM has small profit motivation to do that, while DAZ has immense profit motivation since it's their sold/brokered content at issue

I wouldn't be so quick to agree. The vast bulk of Poser's content revolves around Ye Old Victoria, and has done so for well over a decade. I mean, c'mon... without looking it up, do you remember "Winter Queen"? How much of a market in Rendo revolves around "Jessica"? 

I think Smith Micro has a lot more at stake than even they are willing to recognize, and unless someone steps up to the plate and coughs up a figure that is even partially as recognized, accepted, and supported? Well, it's easy to figure out from there. Like I've said often before; until Smith Micro comes up with a figure that can rival Victoria, they're going to be hostages to content.

( Will Antonia be that figure? IMHO, not until the face and body shape become a lot more flexible. Having kick-ass joints alone just isn't going to cut it - don't believe me? Ask Anton how Apollo turned out for him. )

Quote - I wouldn't be so quick to agree. The vast bulk of Poser's content revolves around Ye Old Victoria, and has done so for well over a decade.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but *it still does, and may continue to do so. * To most ordinary users, it's pretty questionable whether Genesis is really an improvement over previous generations.  How often have we seen the question "what is weight mapping"?  But at any rate, DAZ stands to make huge sacks of money if they can smooth out the Genesis portability problems, while SM probably will make rather little - after all, if you care about this issue at all then you already bought Poser 9 anyway.

e: a sad thought occurs to me, I wonder if DAZ's decision to not do a "David 4" was due in part to push users who would have wanted such a thing into Genesis instead.

Quote - I think Smith Micro has a lot more at stake than even they are willing to recognize, and unless someone steps up to the plate and coughs up a figure that is even partially as recognized, accepted, and supported? Well, it's easy to figure out from there. Like I've said often before; until Smith Micro comes up with a figure that can rival Victoria, they're going to be hostages to content.

Yep. Sure. :biggrin:

Plenty of people will still upgrade to the newer versions of Poser whether Genesis will work with it or not, and so will new users. I will as soon as the holidays are done and I can afford it. I doubt SM will have a huge profit loss because of Genesis.

OT:

Poser P9/PP2012 SR1 is public and can somebody smarter then me, check the readme. I see nothing listed that makes me think that it has anything that makes using Genesis better or worse.

http://poser.smithmicro.com/updates.html

Yep, had a read, Grichter. They addressed a lot of issues - YAY!! background rendering now FIXED! - but I saw absolutely nothing about anything pertaining to what was mentioned here before.

This update is superb! Takes care of the key issues.

Thankee much for the heads up.

Really slow download. Strange. Hadn't everybody switched to Studio 4? :biggrin:.

Quote - Really slow download. Strange. Hadn't everybody switched to Studio 4? :biggrin:.

Sounds like they're being cheap on the download speed. You'd figured they would fix that from when they rolled out the full version three months ago. Also I guess some people are still trying to get that free Poser debut before it cuts off tonight.

Quote - And to the merchies who are endlessly wailing about all the work involved in developing for genesis  ..Ok we get it
 its not like the simple old Days of poser content dev
but  frankly you have to just suck it up and adopt the required new tools and technics( however cumbersome& Expensive they may be) or find yourself some other line of work...Sorry!!

Oops, I meant to address this:  more likely prices will just go up to reflect the extra work and cost, and buyers will have to just suck it up and adopt the new pricing (however expensive it may be) or find themselves some other hobby...Sorry!!

e: or I guess quality could go down a lot, and buyers will just have to suck that up (no matter how terrible it may be) etc

Quote - Thankee much for the heads up.

And thanks from me too. Good to see SM addressing key issues.

Quote - > Quote - Really slow download. Strange. Hadn't everybody switched to Studio 4? :biggrin:.

Sounds like they're being cheap on the download speed. You'd figured they would fix that from when they rolled out the full version three months ago. Also I guess some people are still trying to get that free Poser debut before it cuts off tonight.

In that case DAZ must run out of money each time a DS4 update is released.

Just in case you might miss this: THIS IS A SARCASTIC JOKE!!!!!!

Quote - re: OMG GET GENESIS INTO POSER!!!11!

Quote - I agree Completely The problem I see here is one of people who deluded themselves into believe that the old paradigm would endure for eternity.

actually the problem is that SM has small profit motivation to do that, while DAZ has immense profit motivation since it's their sold/brokered content at issue

The thing is that SM has a small profit motivation to get any figure into Poser by that same token, be it V4, or Alysson. SM doesn't make much money on figure sales, other than Content paradise which can be for V4, M4, Genesis or the toon watermelon figure. If it is Alysson or V4 it doesn't really increase SM bottom dollar that much.

It is a healthy download, 131 megs. But, it wasn't bad here, took about fifteen minutes to get all of it, without any problems or long periods of no activity.  That and when it was released I don't know, but there is a pretty good chance there are one hell of a lot of people trying to get it.

Quote - I wouldn't be so quick to agree. The vast bulk of Poser's content revolves around Ye Old Victoria, and has done so for well over a decade. I mean, c'mon... without looking it up, do you remember "Winter Queen"? How much of a market in Rendo revolves around "Jessica"? 

I think Smith Micro has a lot more at stake than even they are willing to recognize, and unless someone steps up to the plate and coughs up a figure that is even partially as recognized, accepted, and supported? Well, it's easy to figure out from there. Like I've said often before; until Smith Micro comes up with a figure that can rival Victoria, they're going to be hostages to content.

( Will Antonia be that figure? IMHO, not until the face and body shape become a lot more flexible. Having kick-ass joints alone just isn't going to cut it - don't believe me? Ask Anton how Apollo turned out for him. )

1. Winter Queen - Came with Poser 6 - Not what I was interested in doing, but it is (still) hiding out in my runtime.

2.  Jessica & Apollo - that was then, this is now.  The state of the art has moved quite a bit from when I came in at the end of 2004.  Poser & DS users have options that simply were not available back then. 

3.  Clothing - Problem solved.  On the Poser side of the house, there is Wardrobe Wizard, Xdresser4, the Morphing clothes program, and all of the extendability that Python is bringing to Poser makes the concept of replacing a wardrobe irrelevent.  Any female figure can use any piece of clothing in my runtimes, due to Wardrobe Wizard.  All of my male figures can wear any male figure's wardrobe.  They are not 100 percent perfect solutions, but any issues after running a product through WW has been easily fixed with the morph brush.  I love that brush.

DS has an autofit tool that will move a base Gen4 clothing item to Genesis.  One direction only & you lose the movement morphs in the process.  To be fixed sometime "DAZ Soon".

3.  I see DAZ at a greater risk than SM.  As a Poser user, outsourcing what I view as core functionality to third parties is a reciepe for disaster. DS4 installs will be like snowflakes - everyone is different, based on what plugins are installed.  I wish DS users all the best in dealing with that.  I don't see DS4 moving beyond the hobby market for the simple reason of no documentation.  

DS4 simply doesn't have the capabilities of Poser Pro 2012 or even Poser 5 for that matter.  I need dynamic clothing more than I need Genesis.  The Poser Hair room may need a good tutorial to use, but the capabilities are there.  The new lighting system is just incredible.  There is a lot more going on in the Poserverse than in the DS4 universe, because, there is a larger body of folks who know what they are doing than in the DS4 universe.  Who is the BBaggins of the DS4 community?  Who has the capabilities of making a completelly new figure that takes full advantage of the DS4 capabilities.

All DS4 has going for it IS Genesis.  I haven't seen a single Genesis figure that makes me go "Yeah, I need that in my runtime."  And that doesn't even address just the cost of Genesis, which at my last count, was $160 to get all of the genes (V5, S5, etc - some of which are no longer available - which is another issue I have.  I don't play that "buy it now or it's gone forever."  It isn't "gone forever", there are simply less legal ways to get it.  And the people that use those methods will happily click through & ignore the EULA.

"more likely prices will just go up to reflect the extra work and cost, and buyers will have to just suck it up and adopt the new pricing (however expensive it may be)"

I dont buy much from Daz  or any poser content these days  but a quick scan of the chatter in the DAZ forums would seem indicate that there has not been any huge, unnacceptable  price hikes and there is always the "platinum club"

o"r I guess quality could go down a lot, and buyers will just have to suck that up (no matter how terrible it may be) etc"

Well  in your predictably ultra cynical scenario, Daz would have to inexplicably lower their  P.A. standards down to... uumm..
hmm lets see...."content paradise" levels.
Not a likely scenario
IMHO if anything would "go down alot" it would be the price of the CCT
to get more genesis P.A.'s on board.

Cheers

"but I saw absolutely nothing about anything pertaining to what was mentioned here before."

IIRC Randall only said in a SR, not which one or how soon. It would be speculating to suggest that since he just mentioned it, it may be a recent agreement & work wouldn't even start until this SR was out the door :-) 

Quote - "but I saw absolutely nothing about anything pertaining to what was mentioned here before."

IIRC Randall only said in a SR, not which one or how soon. It would be speculating to suggest that since he just mentioned it, it may be a recent agreement & work wouldn't even start until this SR was out the door :-) 

SR1 has been released.

I can see my cursor now!

Quote -
The thing is that SM has a small profit motivation to get any figure into Poser by that same token, be it V4, or Alysson. SM doesn't make much money on figure sales, other than Content paradise which can be for V4, M4, Genesis or the toon watermelon figure. If it is Alysson or V4 it doesn't really increase SM bottom dollar that much.

No content, no users. 

If the content is lacking, then users will flock to where the better content lies. Note that this doesn't mean Genesis is necessarily better, but it does mean that with all the Vickie mojo apparently leaving Poser, where does that leave Poser? 

======

Quote - 2.  Jessica & Apollo - that was then, this is now.  The state of the art has moved quite a bit from when I came in at the end of 2004.  Poser & DS users have options that simply were not available back then.

Yes and no. Some new options have come along, but not enough to set any app beyond the point of having the best content available. 

Quote - 3.  Clothing - Problem solved.

Sure - if you have Runtime folders weighing in at scores of gigabytes apiece. Now about them newbies...

Quote - As a Poser user, outsourcing what I view as core functionality to third parties is a reciepe for disaster. DS4 installs will be like snowflakes - everyone is different, based on what plugins are installed.

Only partially agreed on the first part of that (though I know enough that they retain full access and control of the source code). On the second part, there's no problem there, as plugins are just plugins. The plugins are maintained by the writers of those plugins, just like Wardrobe Wizard is maintained by PhilC, as an example.

Quote -  I don't see DS4 moving beyond the hobby market for the simple reason of no documentation.

Agreed, until the documentation shows up... then what? 

Quote - Who is the BBaggins of the DS4 community?  Who has the capabilities of making a completelly new figure that takes full advantage of the DS4 capabilities.

As for the first part, you may want to look a bit closer at the DAZ forums... there's hobbyist folks in there who are working up things like realtime collision detection, for heaven's sakes. As for the second? The figures are already there. 

Quote -

Well  in your predictably ultra cynical scenario, Daz would have to inexplicably lower their  P.A. standards down to... uumm..
hmm lets see...."content paradise" levels.

THis I find a little insulting.  I've spent hours upon countless hours searching through DAZ for clothing, I do clothe my figures, and found very little that would cause me to think about buying.  THe available clothing may be well done, and for some, "Terriffic!", but it doesn't, very uniformly, fit with what I try to reproduce or produce as the case may be.  I've found a few at CP, therefore, I may use a poser figure, and just how well that figure bends under the cloth, who cares?  You don't see it.  Dynamic or hybrid from PoserWorld, I have a ton of, as well as a lot of the freebies from sharecg which suit my purposes.  The quality of things from DAZ may be okay, but in being almost uniformly unusable by me, how much does the quality matter?  Most of it, in any world I'm trying to portray, would bring the wearer to be hustled away in a police car.  I realize there are probably more into the fantasy thing than I am, so I normally don't comment on the "latest and greatest from ______".  Nor do I buy it.  DAZ PA standards are no better or worse than anyone else.

Quote - No content, no users. 

If the content is lacking, then users will flock to where the better content lies. Note that this doesn't mean Genesis is necessarily better, but it does mean that with all the Vickie mojo apparently leaving Poser, where does that leave Poser? 

Read the post after the one I quote.  I already have more USABLE content for Antonia than I have for V4. Loads of available content can also mean loads that aren't interesting to me.  And I look at this as a good sign.  I bought the advanced morphs from RDNA, I can work with her.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Well, Daz is enterprising. You can't fault them for that. DS was developed for certain goals: Carrara for somewhat different goals. That is to Daz's credit. They acknowledged that users might have different objectives in creating 3D images. Good ON them!

Yes, that's true, but seems that DAZ is leaving all his other software covered with dust in a corner of the room and has only eyes for DS...

It's pretty common for a software house to buy up the competition to kill it through attrition.

...in some circles. that is known as a hostile takeover.

American Airlines parent AMR did that with their "acquisition" of TWA.

Delta did the same with their "acquisition" of Northwest Orient.

Southwest Air Group is in the process of doing so with their "acquisition" of AirTran.

...business is hell and it's the customer who usually ends up paying for it.

If Daz is intent on killing Carrara and Bryce so that a "buffed-up" version of Studio could take their place, they should have just stopped development of the other two applications instead of string people along.

...more and more I am looking towards moving to the Poser camp.

Quote - look, im not saying you shouldnt be careful on the net. your security procedures are none of my business.

All I am saying is that you MUST connect some computer to the net at some point to even get any of our stuff.... and that regardless of how or when you connect, if you buy something, it must be downloaded.

The "offline machine" point is moot.

No matter what method we choose to distribute our content, you will be connecting to DL it... after which you can check it, quarantine it, back it up or make pancakes for it! 

The only question is this. Will studio "know" which content has an update waiting online for you and tell you... giving you the option of a one button click download and install to the location indicated in your prefs*... or will you insist on the masochistic punishment of the current download and install process.

I will always vote for less work and more art time

 

*Hypothetical process. actual process may vary

...the standalone workstation is far from moot. Files and application updates can be downloaded to a net capable system (like my notebook) and transferred via flash drive. The only time an offline system would need to be connected is to initially register software after installation. Once that is done, there is no further need for a link to the Net.

It's not "masocshistic", it's being careful about protecting my investment.  I've already been hit with a virus that piggybacked on an auto-update, it was no fun to deal with. Hence I have disabled all auto update funtions.

Only if the software goes totally cloud based would a permanent net connection be requried.  When that is the only way to do 3D CG, then I am through. Even the best anti-virus/anti-intrusion suites/software are not 100% infallible, and as to leaving my personal work on someone else's server, I think not.  There has already been a major art theft situation on one popular gallery site so nothing connected to the net is "bulletproof".

Furthermore, being online diverts processor and memory resoruces away from more relevant CG tasks.

Only a standalone system is fully secure, as someone would have to break into my flat to gain access.

...and then they'd get to meet "Mr. Louisville" up close and personal.

kyoto_kid wrote:

Quote - If Daz is intent on killing Carrara and Bryce so that a "buffed-up" version of Studio could take their place, they should have just stopped development of the other two applications instead of string people along.

What in the world gave you the idea DAZ is going to kill Carrara and Bryce to put their features into DAZ Studio?

Coldrake