Forum Coordinators: RedPhantom
Poser - OFFICIAL F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2024 Dec 23 8:11 am)
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trouble with image size limits this might take a bit
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The overall shape looks good but I can't see if you have a good topography or not since you don't have a wire to show.
"Dream like you'll live forever. Live like you'll die tomorrow."
Content Advisory! This message contains nudity
______________________
"When you have to shoot ...
SHOOT.
Don't talk "
- Tuco
Santicor's Gallery:
http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=3&userid=580115
Content Advisory! This message contains nudity
______________________
"When you have to shoot ...
SHOOT.
Don't talk "
- Tuco
Santicor's Gallery:
http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=3&userid=580115
Content Advisory! This message contains nudity
______________________
"When you have to shoot ...
SHOOT.
Don't talk "
- Tuco
Santicor's Gallery:
http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=3&userid=580115
Content Advisory! This message contains nudity
______________________
"When you have to shoot ...
SHOOT.
Don't talk "
- Tuco
Santicor's Gallery:
http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=3&userid=580115
I'm by no means an expert but the mesh looks really neat and tidy; and if DAZ meshes are generally anything to go by, at least up to their standard. The only things which look a bit odd to me - although, as I said, I am no expert - are the seeming lack of polys around the elbow areas.
Nice shape to the figure, too.
Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.
What did you use to model in? Nice work!
Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand]
Thanks RV its all W3D it took a LOOONG time to get where I am now - but still have a way to go - to ST's point- he may very well be correct that the elbows are not right- i have only rigged and tried this model out concentrating only on thighs buttocks and collars
so I think while those areas are getting close to final mesh, its the elbows, knees, fingers that i have not even really tried out extensively with joints yet and probably will present some needed fixes
______________________
"When you have to shoot ...
SHOOT.
Don't talk "
- Tuco
Santicor's Gallery:
http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=3&userid=580115
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here's a bad render of her in a pose - the collarstopography has chnged since this render -
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=2324466
______________________
"When you have to shoot ...
SHOOT.
Don't talk "
- Tuco
Santicor's Gallery:
http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=3&userid=580115
Your topology looks fine. nice and clean, and no noticeable tris, though it could be a bit heavy. Edge flow in the face is looking great. You may want to rework some areas in the legs and arms to give more definition to muscles and bony landmarks like knee caps and elbows, especially if you plan on morphing.
Nice work. :)
~Shane
ha ha yeah topography
WTF
______________________
"When you have to shoot ...
SHOOT.
Don't talk "
- Tuco
Santicor's Gallery:
http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=3&userid=580115
My suggestion is to try to sculpt or model in definition that should be in the mesh. Like ribs, basic muscle shapes, etc. Also to try sculpting on the face. I notice some poles on there now that might be hard to sculpt because of how they respond to smoothing. But it's hard for me to tell. Personally, I've found the act of actually trying to make morphs reveals limitations more than guessing based on theory.
______________________
"When you have to shoot ...
SHOOT.
Don't talk "
- Tuco
Santicor's Gallery:
http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=3&userid=580115
______________________
"When you have to shoot ...
SHOOT.
Don't talk "
- Tuco
Santicor's Gallery:
http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=3&userid=580115
______________________
"When you have to shoot ...
SHOOT.
Don't talk "
- Tuco
Santicor's Gallery:
http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=3&userid=580115
______________________
"When you have to shoot ...
SHOOT.
Don't talk "
- Tuco
Santicor's Gallery:
http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=3&userid=580115
______________________
"When you have to shoot ...
SHOOT.
Don't talk "
- Tuco
Santicor's Gallery:
http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=3&userid=580115
santicor - Pardon for being opaque, I'm really not feeling well at all right now. What I'm suggesting is pretty much what you're doing. You're trying to build for the ability to morph in definition, and you're thinking a lot about how it could and should work. Well, in my experience, I've found actually doing the task you're designing for works better than theory to reveal flaws, no matter what I'm making. If you want to make sure your topology works for morphs, I'd suggest testing it by building morphs. They don't have to be final, don't have to be distributed later, and it shouldn't matter if they look kind of wonky. They just need to give you a sense of how easy or difficult it is to build certain types of morphs for your figure.
Trying to make actual morphs will give you real world scenarios. As I mentioned, I find that one of my biggest issues with making morphs is the ability to smooth as I go. Certain types of poles willl make this not only difficult, but altogether impractical. But sculpting without any smoothing is like drawing without any erasing or smudging. I won't say it's beyond everyone (even me), but it certainly raises the difficulty level. I wouldn't personally have thought about this issue in general, but it was a problem the very first time I started sculpting (V3).
You could also just get morph artists to test her and give you feedback about what works and what doesn't. I'd offer myself if I had decent anatomical skills, which I unfortunately do not. I can see basic or glaring what's a mesh problems, but they're often hard to distinguish from the limitation of my skills.
You don't need to test stuff that shouldn't be in the mesh, and should generally be handled by maps. Anything you want to be able to dial, mix and match with different characters and textures, and interact with cloth should probably be in the mesh. Anything that can be individual to a character and not affect cloth is probably best handled with displacement, bump, or normal maps. For instance, rib definition and six pack abs are best as a morph, but fine muscle and tendon detail are probably best as a map. Nipples need morphs, but the aureola can have a surface defined by displacement and bump.
Blender has the ability to make something called "Shape Keys," which is their term for morphs. Can you do something similar in W3D?
The legs themselves look a bit strange from the hips, as tho they are jutting out from the torso instead of being a continuous flowing form. IF this is your intention then that's fine, if it's a particular style you're trying to achieve. but generally females have a very hourglass shape from the thighs to the upper torso.
The topology you have running down the thighs, inner thighs especially, is too parallel, giving no definition to any of the upper thigh muscles. (same for the arms, from what I can tell).
I took the liberty to sketch in some edgeflow suggestions, defining the gracillis, sartorius and upper quads. If you can establish these, will definitely help to keep your overall form solid and believable, especially the sartorius.
Try to avoid stars or diamonds in the groin where her legs bend if you can.
Also, your topology is really dense in a lot of areas, especially at the neck along the mastoid, and in the corners of the mouth. You should be able to tie off some of those loops with diamonds and not have it effect any morphing or animations. Edgeflow should only define the forms and change direction at plane shifts. Once you have your base edge flow in place, adding a 2nd level of division will give plenty of geometry for morphing and joint manipulation. And I see nothing in her ears that tell me they're actually ears, other than placement and outer form.
Hope this helps without being too over critical.
~Shane
I think the neck shouldn't gently curve so much down to the shoulders. I would try and do two lines, one vertical and one more horizontal for the neck and shoulders.
Love esther
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
this is looking very promising, your work improves with every effort... im not seeing any of those nasty "knots" in the mesh i was seeing in your previous model, nice even flow on your loops, most geometry 'makes sense' ... i may suggest optomising areas such as the back of the head unless you are allowing for further sculpting there... the main enemy though is knots where convergence of loops occur that make smoothing difficult or impossible, im not seeing any of those, i would have to give this mesh high marks ...you are definately heading in the right direction, this could 'evolve' into an excellent character...good progress...
:O)
Y'all have a great day.
Good evening from Belgium.
I have been looking at this figure from the second it was posted.
Something very obvious did not match but I could not put my finger on it.
looking at lots and lots of reference material allow me to make one sugestion.
There is an imbalance between the slimm body and the large breasts.
Topology wise, 2 comments.
On the back you have a very dense mesh around the spine. I would thin the mesh out there. Some other area's are also "very dense". I would clean those too.
Read Teyons comment about rigging. Too many poly's in some area's make rigging very-very difficult.
Second; there is a sharp skin dent between the breasts. And if I try to look closely, yes, too many poly's between the breasts too.
Good luck , very fine effort so far.
Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7,
P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game
Dev
"Do not drive
faster then your angel can fly"!
the mass feedback is awesome ......these things will all be addressed this weekend ( hopefully) Mind you i am a 9 to 5 working stiff ;-)
______________________
"When you have to shoot ...
SHOOT.
Don't talk "
- Tuco
Santicor's Gallery:
http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=3&userid=580115
As the whole body is so smooth and slim?
I did not notice it at first; the arms.
Good job, keep going. :-)
Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7,
P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game
Dev
"Do not drive
faster then your angel can fly"!
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1. The figure is very slimm. Tall but thin.
The breasts are too big for such a tall and slimm figure.
They should be "A" cup at the most.
Hey Vilters - i am not sure how you guys roll in Belgium, but where I am from
Big tits = good.
A cup = bad.
LOL just having fun, my friend
thanks for your suggestions
______________________
"When you have to shoot ...
SHOOT.
Don't talk "
- Tuco
Santicor's Gallery:
http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=3&userid=580115
Content Advisory! This message contains nudity
______________________
"When you have to shoot ...
SHOOT.
Don't talk "
- Tuco
Santicor's Gallery:
http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=3&userid=580115
From my perspective - given she's not a photo-realistic figure - she so totally works, mate. She's awesome.
Tell ya what - do yourself a favour... get a grip on rigging. Diogenes has this mind-blowing tute on rigging figures, available at PoserPlace. Nothing reveals sub-optimal topology like an attempt at rigging the dang thing. So, have a read... and a go... makes ALL the difference!
Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand]
if i may suggest: when rigging the shoulders, make the collars scalable in the x-axis to facilitate moving the armpits outward just a bit when bending the arms down (via ERC)so the arms drape outside the ribcage... current fugures have no provision for this (and animating joint centers is a joke) i think collar X scale may be an answer... looking good on the modeling so far, great attitude on suggestions, enthusiasm A+ ,you're getting there...
:O)
Y'all have a great day.
JAFO i never thought of that and that X scale can prob be a slave - not sure- but hmmm wonder if that will look good- that goes on the task list for later ....interesting.
______________________
"When you have to shoot ...
SHOOT.
Don't talk "
- Tuco
Santicor's Gallery:
http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=3&userid=580115
Content Advisory! This message contains nudity
______________________
"When you have to shoot ...
SHOOT.
Don't talk "
- Tuco
Santicor's Gallery:
http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=3&userid=580115
I think the lateral border of her arm (ie the upper limb above the elbow) is convex when it should be straight.
It's looking really good now though.
Love esther
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
This pic is my model's most referred to reference pic (for arms front view zero pose)
______________________
"When you have to shoot ...
SHOOT.
Don't talk "
- Tuco
Santicor's Gallery:
http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=3&userid=580115
It is a well kown problem for Poser figures.
Arms-upper shoulder.
I model my arms lowered just for that purpose.
You can model them perfectly in the "T" Pose, but normal people do not walk around in that "T" pose... :-)
That is why I allways build in "T", but then correct at the lowered position.
I want my arms to look correct in a lowered position.
Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7,
P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game
Dev
"Do not drive
faster then your angel can fly"!
Quote - yes having a bit of a struggle with upper arm shape and where this arm is ending up in its postion when lowered. have not put in a real effort on it yet to conquer this strugle... but it will come
This pic is my model's most referred to reference pic (for arms front view zero pose)
Are you sculpting or poly modeling?
~Shane
Quote - Hey Vilters - i am not sure how you guys roll in Belgium, but where I am from
Big tits = good.
A cup = bad.
Aww shucks. I guess there are a billion women in need of surgery then.
But I suppose we should be thankful that, unlike the poor guys, for us at least there IS a procedure that makes us big enough. :P
PoserPro 2014, PS CS5.5 Ext, Nikon D300. Win 8, i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz, AMD Radeon 8570, 12 GB RAM.
When I look at any new figure I am looking for a "balance".
And YES, when I model or morph, I build the upper arms just as cylinders in the "T" pose.
Final collar-upper-lower-arms shape I only make with the arms lowered.
Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7,
P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game
Dev
"Do not drive
faster then your angel can fly"!
Quote - yes having a bit of a struggle with upper arm shape and where this arm is ending up in its postion when lowered. have not put in a real effort on it yet to conquer this strugle... but it will come
This pic is my model's most referred to reference pic (for arms front view zero pose)
Thank you for sharing. Have you finish the rig?
My suggestion is to find a reference model who has a body shape closer to what you want to model. From your picture, she is muscular (by comparing to myself).
I would want muscularity in a poser figure.
Love esther
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
using muscular references so as to build a good layout for people to morph muscularity into the figure... for example please note layout of the torso ( image -previous page) - pattern in tummy supports morphing strong abs. Shane is right- need to build better lines of leg muscles. Arms i have the layout OK for delts, etc but the shaping execution in the arms is just a bit off right now. Estherau thanks for last comment I am trying to make sexy, full curvy bodied.... but muscular -very difficult place i am trying to get to IMO..... she'll end up being smoothed down a lot from what you see in first image of thread.....i think you would want to let the end user go from a smoothed down version of this model and use their own morphing preferences to go muscular, or OTOH soft and curvy or whatever.
______________________
"When you have to shoot ...
SHOOT.
Don't talk "
- Tuco
Santicor's Gallery:
http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=3&userid=580115
Quote - .....i think you would want to let the end user go from a smoothed down version of this model and use their own morphing preferences to go muscular, or OTOH soft and curvy or whatever.
i have to agree with this... its much easier to morph in detail than it is to smooth out these details before beginning to create 'your vision' of a character...i have done studies that lead me to beleive that simply adding loops in key areas instead of definining outlines can acheive great results without locking in detail that may be hard to alter. trends are leaning more toward displacement maps instead of detailed topology so a smooth medium rez base will be beneficial to those creating these maps... i like well defined musculature as much as the next user but i like to be able to sculpt these things myself without being crowded out by pre-definition that may not fit my design needs, look ar M4's thighs just above the knees and you will find a prime example of what im complaining about...the muscles are pre-defined (and in the wrong places)and its nearly impossible to change this to make more realistic muscle movement when bending... looks good when in the default pose but when bending the knees these details become stretched and distorted and this interferes with making changes needed to make the joint 'work' properly...
Santicor you are approaching this perfectly , open forum is the way to go when creating a figure , not only does it result in better figures being developed but it also creates enthusiam and 'hype'... building anticipation and desire for the figure ...people like to be involved in these projects , theres great opertunity for furthering knowledge in the creation of figures but also the potential for discovering ways to make these figures perform better in the app, theres a lot of collective knowledge here in the forum...im sure some projects fail because the developer reached a barrier they couldnt overcome , if people in the forum understand the problem they may have solutions and help push through these roadblocks... absolutely nothing wrong with needing help from time to time....
:O)
Y'all have a great day.
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Content Advisory! This message contains nudity
______________________
"When you have to shoot ...
SHOOT.
Don't talk "
- Tuco
Santicor's Gallery:
http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=3&userid=580115