trying to  get a good topography  for female figure. i have done a quick  rig on  this and made some changes  here and there  What  do  you  think  about the topography  I am  concerned that  the face can  be morphed  and i had a heck  of a time making collars that  look  realistic  but will  not look lousy when  bending.

trouble with image size limits  this might take a bit

The overall shape looks good but I can't see if you have a good topography or not since you don't have a wire to show.

Yes  - - - i had image size issues then  i went out for a while - anyways  here's the head

upper bod

another view

backside

I'm by no means an expert but the mesh looks really neat and tidy; and if DAZ meshes are generally anything to go by, at least up to their standard.  The only things which look a bit odd to me - although, as I said, I am no expert - are the seeming lack of polys around the elbow areas.

Nice shape to the figure, too. 

She's a real looker!

What did you use to model in? Nice work!

Thanks RV  its all W3D  it took  a LOOONG  time to get where I am now - but still  have a way  to  go - to  ST's point-  he may very  well be correct that  the elbows are not right- i have only rigged  and tried this model out  concentrating only on thighs buttocks and collars 

so  I think  while those areas are getting close to  final  mesh,   its the  elbows, knees, fingers  that  i have not even  really tried out extensively with joints yet and probably  will  present some needed fixes

here's a bad render of her in a pose - the collarstopography has chnged since this render -

 

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=2324466

 

 

Your topology looks fine. nice and clean, and no noticeable tris, though it could be a bit heavy. Edge flow in the face is looking great. You may want to rework some areas in the legs and arms to give more definition to muscles and bony landmarks like knee caps and elbows, especially if you plan on morphing.  

Nice work. :)

 

~Shane

ha ha  yeah  topography

WTF

My suggestion is to try to sculpt or model in definition that should be in the mesh.  Like ribs, basic muscle shapes, etc.  Also to try sculpting on the face.  I notice some poles on there now that might be hard to sculpt because of how they respond to smoothing.  But it's hard for me to tell. Personally, I've found the act of actually trying to make morphs reveals limitations more than guessing based on theory.

You'll also want to lighten up some of the geometry in the front thigh toward the crotch area. It's an area that can be a pain to deal with and lots of polys there can sometimes be problematic (it was for Miki3).

Thanks Kobalt I am not sure I am locking in on your description well  because your posting style is very focussed   But I will  say  that  i  wanted to have a fine definition *available* for end user without totally building the defintion into  the base mesh  ..("figure")   for instance i  tried to shape rib loops into  real  rib shape and slightly contoured where rib definition would be but witout going too  far  . so  that area of rib loops can  be either used and further detailed thru  morhping,  or on  the contrary  morphed to  "dissappear". everyones comment aout lack  of arm muscle and ligament, tendon detail in extremities  (arms knees elbows,   is accurate... i really not  done  with this detail outside of the core body area , as mentioned earlier - here is a look  at  what  i mean  about trying to set for the end user the rib structure - so  that end user has easy  time of either picking up  on  this definition and enhancing it,  but also  could change the flow and amount of defintiion if desired.U see in  any  modeling program  a user can identify  the verts that make the ribs show,  and so  use this or hide it. Also  for  non  advanced users of older P versions i made sure this morph would only have to  be in  one body  part. ribs are all  just chest, delts are all just collar, abs completely contained in  waist, etc.

 

 

 

 

pretty straightforward how to  enhance or "lose" the ribs definition......

@ Teyon   agreed it is messy- my  least favorite part of the mesh - i had trouble supporting the pubic ligament  which  i MUST have - and ran  into  trouble with muscle   Easy answer was to  slash  through  and make TRIs  but I find that  distasteful. not saying you  recommend that  ;-)

closer look at lips and eyes edge loops - i  had to  terminate those eyelids ones early like that  or else there would have been loop hell everywhere imo   was better to lose them  where eye creases should appear

so  then  here's how the face  looks... and this is her "working" hair  object .... that  mesh  eyebrow that  you  see on  her right eye actually looks pretty good when  rendering it with transmap...i  would be suspicious, too.,  but it does look  good

santicor - Pardon for being opaque, I'm really not feeling well at all right now.  What I'm suggesting is pretty much what you're doing.  You're trying to build for the ability to morph in definition, and you're thinking a lot about how it could and should work.  Well, in my experience, I've found actually doing the task you're designing for works better than theory to reveal flaws, no matter what I'm making.  If you want to make sure your topology works for morphs, I'd suggest testing it by building morphs.  They don't have to be final, don't have to be distributed later, and it shouldn't matter if they look kind of wonky.  They just need to give you a sense of how easy or difficult it is to build certain types of morphs for your figure.

Trying to make actual morphs will give you real world scenarios.  As I mentioned, I find that one of my biggest issues with making morphs is the ability to smooth as I go.  Certain types of poles willl make this not only difficult, but altogether impractical.  But sculpting without any smoothing is like drawing without any erasing or smudging.  I won't say it's beyond everyone (even me), but it certainly raises the difficulty level.  I wouldn't personally have thought about this issue in general, but it was a problem the very first time I started sculpting (V3).

You could also just get morph artists to test her and give you feedback about what works and what doesn't.  I'd offer myself if I had decent anatomical skills, which I unfortunately do not.  I can see basic or glaring what's a mesh problems, but they're often hard to distinguish from the limitation of my skills.

You don't need to test stuff that shouldn't be in the mesh, and should generally be handled by maps.  Anything you want to be able to dial, mix and match with different characters and textures, and interact with cloth should probably be in the mesh.  Anything that can be individual to a character and not affect cloth is probably best handled with displacement, bump, or normal maps.  For instance, rib definition and six pack abs are best as a morph, but fine muscle and tendon detail are probably best as a map.  Nipples need morphs, but the aureola can have a surface defined by displacement and bump.

Blender has the ability to make something called "Shape Keys," which is their term for morphs.  Can you do something similar in W3D? 

If I may add:

The legs themselves look a bit strange from the hips, as tho they are jutting out from the torso instead of being a continuous flowing form. IF this is your intention then that's fine, if it's a particular style you're trying to achieve. but generally females have a very hourglass shape from the thighs to the upper torso.

The topology you have running down the thighs, inner thighs especially, is too parallel, giving no definition to any of the upper thigh muscles. (same for the arms, from what I can tell). 

I took the liberty to sketch in some edgeflow suggestions, defining the gracillis, sartorius and upper quads. If you can establish these, will definitely help to keep your overall form solid and believable, especially the sartorius. 

Try to avoid stars or diamonds in the groin where her legs bend if you can. 

Also, your topology is really dense in a lot of areas, especially at the neck along the mastoid, and in the corners of the mouth. You should be able to tie off some of those loops with diamonds and not have it effect any morphing or animations. Edgeflow should only define the forms and change direction at plane shifts. Once you have your base edge flow in place, adding a 2nd level of division will give plenty of geometry for morphing and joint manipulation. And I see nothing in her ears that tell me they're actually ears, other than placement and outer form.

Hope this helps without being too over critical.

 

~Shane   

Cool ribs.

The shape itself:  I think the Breasts are just too high and the neck just a touch too thick otherwise looking good

I think the neck shouldn't gently curve so much down to the shoulders.  I would try and do two lines, one vertical and one more horizontal for the neck and shoulders.

Love esther

 this is looking very promising, your work improves with every effort... im not seeing any of those nasty "knots" in the mesh i was seeing in your previous model, nice even flow on your loops, most geometry 'makes sense' ... i may suggest optomising areas such as the back of the head unless you are allowing for further sculpting there... the main enemy though is knots where convergence of loops occur that make smoothing difficult or impossible, im not seeing any of those, i would have to give this mesh high marks ...you are definately heading in the right direction, this could 'evolve' into an excellent character...good progress...

 

:O)

Good evening from Belgium.

I have been looking at this figure from the second it was posted.
Something very obvious did not match but I could not put my finger on it.
looking at lots and lots of reference material allow me to make one sugestion.

1. The figure is very slimm. Tall but thin.
   The breasts are too big for such a tall and slimm figure.
   They should be "A" cup at the most.

There is an imbalance between the slimm body and the large breasts.

Topology wise, 2 comments.

On the back you have  a very dense mesh around the spine. I would thin the mesh out there. Some other area's are also "very dense". I would clean those too.
Read Teyons comment about rigging. Too many poly's in some area's make rigging very-very difficult.

Second; there is a sharp skin dent between the breasts. And if I try to look closely, yes, too many poly's between the breasts too.

Good luck , very fine effort so far.

the mass feedback  is awesome ......these things will  all be addressed this weekend  ( hopefully)  Mind you  i am  a 9 to 5 working stiff   ;-)

As the whole body is so smooth and slim?
I did not notice it at first; the arms.

1. They might become too thin when lowered. => Cdertainly will.
2. Very little muscle definition on the arms. Biceps-triceps.
3. The wrist is certainly too thin.
4. Pay att to the upper arm, It bends. = Hangs down.

Good job, keep going. :-)

1. The figure is very slimm. Tall but thin.
The breasts are too big for such a tall and slimm figure.
They should be "A" cup at the most.

 Hey  Vilters - i  am not sure how you  guys roll in Belgium, but where I am  from 

Big tits = good.

  A cup = bad.

LOL  just having fun, my friend

 thanks for your suggestions

forgetting about the neck  and shoulders here, b/c  shoulder and collar joints are just thrown together quickly here....(btw this is purposely only P7 spherical  deform rig for now)  I want to  look  at  the z rotate of the legs and point out that  i think  Existential Disorders comments are correct about the flow of the lines in  the legs, but I disagree about the juxtaposition of the thighs coming out of the hips. I think I have the positioning correct ( considering the fact  of where i have jointed her). When  she puts her legs down into  this basic nuetral stand, i like the shape.   this is buttock  z rotate 5 degrees  thigh  z rotate 6 degrees ....and so you can understand... that  the body parts pretty closely match a smith micrpo  figure - not on purpose

From my perspective - given she's not a photo-realistic figure - she so totally works, mate. She's awesome.

Tell ya what - do yourself a favour... get a grip on rigging. Diogenes has this mind-blowing tute on rigging figures, available at PoserPlace. Nothing reveals sub-optimal topology like an attempt at rigging the dang thing. So, have a read... and a go... makes ALL the difference!

if i may suggest: when rigging the shoulders, make the collars scalable in the x-axis to facilitate moving the armpits outward just a bit when bending the arms down (via ERC)so the arms drape outside the ribcage... current fugures have no provision for this (and animating joint centers is a joke) i think collar X scale may be an answer... looking good  on the modeling so far, great attitude on suggestions, enthusiasm A+ ,you're getting there...

:O)

JAFO i never thought of that  and that X scale can  prob be a slave  - not sure- but hmmm wonder if that  will  look  good- that goes on the task list for later ....interesting.

I'm glad the feedback pointed out the prob in the flow from hip to thigh   check out the crease area at left hip side.  yeah there's probs .... this is all deconstructed now i am redoing it.

Thanks for showing us your work Santicor!

I think the lateral border of her arm (ie the upper limb above the elbow) is convex when it should be straight.

It's looking really good now though.

Love esther

yes having a bit of a struggle with upper arm shape  and where this arm is ending up  in  its postion when lowered. have not put in  a real  effort on it yet to conquer this strugle...  but it will  come

This pic is my model's most referred to  reference pic (for arms front view zero pose)

It is a well kown problem for Poser figures.
Arms-upper shoulder.

I model my arms lowered just for that purpose.

You can model them perfectly in the "T" Pose, but normal people do not walk around in that "T" pose... :-)

That is why I allways build in "T", but then correct at the lowered position.

I want my arms to look correct in a lowered position.

Quote - yes having a bit of a struggle with upper arm shape  and where this arm is ending up  in  its postion when lowered. have not put in  a real  effort on it yet to conquer this strugle...  but it will  come

This pic is my model's most referred to  reference pic (for arms front view zero pose)

 

Are you sculpting or poly modeling?

 

~Shane

Quote - Hey  Vilters - i  am not sure how you  guys roll in Belgium, but where I am  from 

Big tits = good.

  A cup = bad.

Aww shucks.  I guess there are a billion women in need of surgery then. 

But I suppose we should be thankful that, unlike the poor guys, for us at least there IS a procedure that makes us big enough.  :P

When I look at any new figure I am looking for a "balance".

And YES, when I model or morph, I build the upper arms just as cylinders in the "T" pose.

Final collar-upper-lower-arms shape I only make with the arms lowered.

Quote - yes having a bit of a struggle with upper arm shape  and where this arm is ending up  in  its postion when lowered. have not put in  a real  effort on it yet to conquer this strugle...  but it will  come

This pic is my model's most referred to  reference pic (for arms front view zero pose)

Thank you for sharing.  Have you finish the rig?

My suggestion is to find a reference model who has a body shape closer to what you want to model.  From your picture, she is muscular (by comparing to myself).

I would want muscularity in a poser figure.

Love esther

using muscular references so as to build a good layout for people to  morph muscularity into the figure... for example  please note layout of the torso ( image -previous page) - pattern in tummy supports morphing strong abs. Shane is right- need to  build better lines of leg muscles. Arms i have the layout OK for delts, etc  but the shaping execution in the arms is just a bit off right now. Estherau thanks for last comment I am  trying to  make sexy, full curvy bodied.... but muscular -very difficult place i am trying to get to  IMO.....  she'll end up being smoothed down  a lot from  what you  see in first image of thread.....i  think  you  would want  to  let the end user go from a smoothed down version of this model  and use their own morphing preferences to go  muscular, or OTOH soft and curvy  or whatever.

Quote - .....i  think  you  would want  to  let the end user go from a smoothed down version of this model  and use their own morphing preferences to go  muscular, or OTOH soft and curvy  or whatever.

i have to agree with this... its much easier to morph in detail than it is to smooth out these details before beginning to create 'your vision' of a character...i have done studies that lead me to beleive that simply adding loops in key areas instead of definining outlines can acheive great results without locking in detail that may  be hard to alter. trends are leaning more toward displacement maps instead of detailed topology so a smooth medium rez base will be beneficial to those creating these maps... i like well defined musculature as much as the next user but  i like to be able to sculpt these things myself without being crowded out by pre-definition that may not fit my design needs, look ar M4's thighs just above the knees and you will find a prime example of what im complaining about...the muscles are pre-defined (and in the wrong places)and its nearly impossible to change this to make more realistic muscle movement when bending... looks good when in the default pose but when bending the knees these details become stretched and distorted and this interferes with making changes needed to make the joint 'work' properly...

Santicor you are approaching this perfectly , open forum is the way to go when creating a figure , not only does it result in better figures being developed but it also creates enthusiam and 'hype'... building anticipation and desire for the figure ...people like to be involved in these projects , theres great opertunity for furthering  knowledge in the creation of figures but also the potential for discovering ways to make these figures perform better in the app, theres a lot of collective knowledge here in the forum...im sure some  projects fail because the developer reached a barrier they couldnt overcome , if people in the forum understand the problem they may have solutions and help push through these roadblocks... absolutely nothing wrong with needing help from time to time....

:O)