...however, there is a non-rigged version for $499 in .obj instead of Max.

http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/rigged-female-3d-max/669560

Just having fun....

::::: Opera :::::

She's low res too, which is nice.

Sometimes Poser users forget just how good we've got it with prices of the stuff we buy...lol. And that we give up low resolution for morphability ;).

Laurie

Great character- except the elbow region- needs some WM work there-otherwise fabulous!

i agree on the elbow...i noticed that.

If we ever get a mesh that bends as nicely as that and a renderer that does skin as nicely as that, then we can poke fun at that price. Until then I get the feeling the laughs on us...

Wow... Do people actually spend that kind of money on models? Must be nice to have such disposable income.

perhaps ghonma, but V4 fully "Perfected" comes pretty close. Firefly can render pretty well, too.

I see the creator is using some of the stop staring techniques. Neat. I'm looking to implement some of that myself in the future.

She's a nice looking model.

Quote - Wow... Do people actually spend that kind of money on models? Must be nice to have such disposable income.

Most folks outside of the Poser community do, yeah. You guys don't realize how good you've got it. lol.

This is what reasonable compensation for time invested looks like.

pretty much.

Hmmm, so if 100 people were to purchase this item that would be $100,000 minus turbosquid's commission ( fine art gallery cuts are 40% or more unless you're an extremely heavy hitter)... are you serious or just exhibiting some kind of warped perspective snobbery here? Of course, I wonder if 100 people will purchase this item, but still. I don't care if the guy worked on this model for a year, that's still a PRETTY fancy income for a 3D model. No intention of insulting anyone here, as a caveat.

Suppose he sells three? It could still be a losing proposition.

Quote - Hmmm, so if 100 people were to purchase this item that would be $100,000 minus turbosquid's commission ( fine art gallery cuts are 40% or more unless you're an extremely heavy hitter)... are you serious or just exhibiting some kind of warped perspective snobbery here? Of course, I wonder if 100 people will purchase this item, but still. I don't care if the guy worked on this model for a year, that's still a PRETTY fancy income for a 3D model. No intention of insulting anyone here, as a caveat.

Consider that the model can be used for anything. ANYTHING. From advertisements to crowd elements to being sculpted into a body double for an actor in a feature film. The artist would need to reap some benefit, as they'd be giving up any rights to the character and any royalties. It's more than just a model that's being sold. It's a product, it's a symbol, it's a spokesperson. The uses of a character are huge.

You're telling me you'd be fine with someone just summing up  a month of your work - 160 hours (assuming you work 8 hour days) into a $40 item that may or may not sell at all amongst all the other items on sale at the digital outlet you're using? You're fine with that? Because it was a hard pill for me to swallow.

The minimum wage here in NYC is $7.25/Hour, that's about $1,160 a month before taxes. Doesn't include the cost of the hardware and software needed to make the product (and anyone who has ever done freelance should know you charge for that stuff). So even if he were to sell just one copy of the character he'd not recoup the bare minimum he should, let alone a fair price.  Don't get me started. The Poser user base has got it good. Revel in it.

@ Teyon, Not trying to get you started...

You don't have to tell me what the minimum wage is on the east coast (where I currently reside), trust me I know all about it. The only arena where I've ever sold any of my art is in the realm of ceramic sculpture... as I was a gallery contracted artist in San Francisco and additionally was the lead tile glazer @ Heath ceramics. Did pretty well at it too, although as I've said the gallery owners get about 50% of the final sale price.

Now your field is the CG market... And from what I've gathered you're a full time professional in that field. You probaby make a pretty decent income doing something you love, an envious position for anyone working in the arts.

All of this being said, Nowhere did I suggest that I was fine with an artists efforts being exploited... I just think that $1000 a pop is rather a lot for an item which is mass-produced. And lets face it, any art object which can be copied at the push of a button is a mass production item (Otherwise, would IP piracy be an issue?).

Of course, I'm unversed in the realm of CG market forces and practices so maybe I'm speaking out of turn.

Anyway... Quite a beautiful model... Quite overpriced as an item(s) of art, in my perhaps naive opinion. Or maybe it isn't art, then? (scratches head). On that note, does anyone go into the arts with the expectations of making a haul of loot?

Incidentally, I might contradict myself by saying that poser content creators seem to be getting a paltry sum for their labors.

The amount of work put into a piece doesn't really determine the value of any given single instance of it, else we couldn't watch a move for $12 or buy a great novel for $10.

Assuming you believe the basic economic theories describing behavior in a free market, Poser content is worth exactly what people will pay for it. No more, no less. If it won't sell for more, then that might be more correctly thought of as a failure of marketing. Not enough people -- or businesses - buy Poser content to permit vendors to charge higher prices.

That said, yes, I feel lucky that I can buy a month or two of someone's work for $10. But I've always felt lucky in that regard. Every time I buy a book, I feel lucky that, thanks to the miracle of mass publishing, authors don't have to be independently wealthy or working for wealthy patrons any more.

It's a shame, though, that Poser content creators aren't selling 5,000 copies and considering that a relative failure. Surely most must do it out of love. No other explanation suffices.

Perhaps the artist that created this model figures that even if he only manages to sell 2 at least he sort of recompensed his skill and effort... who knows the pricing rationale? If so... a risky tactic.

Nice to see you back, moriador. Maybe you never left? Only catch bits and pieces here and there. You always seem to have something interesting and articulate to say.

By "You" I didn't mean you specifically (though it clearly appeared that way - sorry), I meant "you" as in the general sense. Sort of like "we" but without me included. :D 

I am considered a pro in the field but the only reason I'm able to survive making Poser content is because Smith Micro is my employer. If I were freelancing or making content on my own for a living, I wouldn't survive in NYC because the money from each sale would have to last to the next sale and if my brief time as a solo content creator is any sign, after the first week or two, you're lucky to make money on an original character. I'd end up being forced into clothing creation and if I had any hope at all of selling, it'd have to be for the more popular figures - regardless of my opinion on them. 

I don't mean to derail the thread into a lamentation on the struggles of a content creator I just think that when it comes to making products, you price to your market. Poser's crowd are in the $50 and under range from what I've seen, while the "pro" market are more likely to spend a few hundred on a fully rigged, fully morphed, character that's ready to be used in a Max/Maya/XSI/Houdini scene during crunch time - which is likely the only time characters like this would be bought because most studios have in-house artists. So yeah, very few potential sales means you have to get the most money you can from each sale if it is your only source of income. Hence the higher price point.

As for the character, the more I look at her, the less I like her face. I like her expressions, just ...something about her face seems odd.

I think it's the length of her nose in the front view. Seems long. 

@ operaguy
@ Teyon.

A figure like that, with that Polycount and Poly Distribution, and a single SubD in Poser, and in 6 months, V4 is part of the DS/Poser history.

Only things I would change?

The PoserPro mapping is the most user friendly mapping I'v ever seen.
Goto a single texture map like the PoserPro figures, but at 8192x8192 resolution.

Good find,
best regards
Have a nice W-End all.
Tony 

she looks like Christina Applegate to me.

if i had money like that i would be tempted.

Quote - > Quote - Hmmm, so if 100 people were to purchase this item that would be $100,000 minus turbosquid's commission ( fine art gallery cuts are 40% or more unless you're an extremely heavy hitter)... are you serious or just exhibiting some kind of warped perspective snobbery here? Of course, I wonder if 100 people will purchase this item, but still. I don't care if the guy worked on this model for a year, that's still a PRETTY fancy income for a 3D model. No intention of insulting anyone here, as a caveat.

 

Consider that the model can be used for anything. ANYTHING. From advertisements to crowd elements to being sculpted into a body double for an actor in a feature film. The artist would need to reap some benefit, as they'd be giving up any rights to the character and any royalties. It's more than just a model that's being sold. It's a product, it's a symbol, it's a spokesperson. The uses of a character are huge.

You're telling me you'd be fine with someone just summing up  a month of your work - 160 hours (assuming you work 8 hour days) into a $40 item that may or may not sell at all amongst all the other items on sale at the digital outlet you're using? You're fine with that? Because it was a hard pill for me to swallow.

The minimum wage here in NYC is $7.25/Hour, that's about $1,160 a month before taxes. Doesn't include the cost of the hardware and software needed to make the product (and anyone who has ever done freelance should know you charge for that stuff). So even if he were to sell just one copy of the character he'd not recoup the bare minimum he should, let alone a fair price.  Don't get me started. The Poser user base has got it good. Revel in it.

you're in the city?
maybe we could do lunch sometime? 
i'm on long island - longguyland  lol

The model is rigged for Autodesk MAX with Mental Ray shaders.
as Teyon noted it is targeted to buyers needing a ready to human with native MAX rigging and shaders ready to animate for a film or commercial spot that has budget ranging from hundreds of thousands to millions.

This is NOT intended to be posed rendered in a still image and tossed up in a web forum gallery to seek praise from people who are doing the exact same thing with their copy of the model.

For animation /Film work you would be surprised and what the client will pay for the assets they want in their shots
for example one of my animation clients wanted a really detailed skateboard for an animation job I did for them
and on top of my Fee, paid an additional $100.
at Turbosquid just for the skateboard model in this shot.

Cheers

I don't see the DAZ/Poser market getting to that price point. The only answer to increased volume is more users. In that regard, the more the programs cater to more serious hobbyists, the smaller the market. If DAZ and SM collaborated on a simple program for animation or games catering to the FaceBook masses maybe that would be a hit - and the content wouldn't have to be as complex. Of course, thay may be a complete delusion on my part as well :-)

It is a very nice looking figure. It even comes with shoes.

I'm sure a professional couldn't have one commissioned for anything close to that...

1. if you performed one SubD, would the topology still be ideal for Poser?

2. can anyone tell if the mesh would lend itself to excellent WM rigging in Poser?

as noted, the non-rigged version is $495 not $999.

I am not looking to bail out on V4, just having a fun diversion for the weekend.

::::: Opera :::::

The “low poly” version, not counting the clothing and hairclip is 17986 polygons. If you freeze the SubD at the lowest level possible, you multiply by four, which would give you 71944 polygons. This is in the Victoria range.

It would be something of an ordeal to rig this figure for Poser for various reasons. If you bought the non-rigged version, would it still include the morphs? The eyebrows and eyelashes employ a Max hair and fur solution. You would need to replace these. These issues aren’t worth the $500 price tag in my opinion.

"It would be something of an ordeal to rig this figure for Poser for various reasons. If you bought the non-rigged version, would it still include the morphs? The eyebrows and eyelashes employ a Max hair and fur solution. You would need to replace these. These issues aren’t worth the $500 price tag in my opinion."

I agree

those native MAX, MAYA rigs  are always built from the beginning with the goal of a low res mesh that will subdivide accurately at render time with Catmull Clark or some variation thereof that MAX or MAYA is using
Repurposing them for poser is almost never a worthwhile endeavour IMHO.

Cheers

I already agree with both of you. This is for Max. If V4 were not so cool, I would be tempted, but actually more tempted to get into Max than to bring this model and others like it (did you see his cyborg?) into Poser.

::::: Opera :::::

Only thing I envy on that model is how it creates those wonderful expressions. Everything can already be done with the existing figures. All you need is a nice normal and displacement map for those details.

Teyon- I know what you mean about the nose-the tip is long. I have seen people with a nose like that-but not often. Besides-it would be absurdly easy to do a nose job with Zbrush.

I like the face, body, and details- the elbow-where the forearm and upper arm could use some WM adjustment. It looks WRONG.

IMHO Catmull clark subdivision,on the fly,would have been a great addition to poser9/Pro and not just for any Genesis compatibility.
working,posing,animating with a system friendly low res
meshes and switching on SubD only at render time is nice workflow.

Attached are two identical copies of the DAZ Mike 3 reduced resolution in Maxon Cinema4D click loaded  directly from my runtime Via the Interposer® plugin.

The left copy has a hyper nurbs modifier with the display division set to one and the render division set to 2
I could set the division as high as my hardware will handle and still have all the morphs functional ( as this African+smile morph demonstrates.)

I read about Snarlys SubD script... nice effort but SM needs to implement a proper CC SubD feature in poser if it Seriously wants to move forward in Figure rig handling tech IMHO.

Cheers

nikola dechev

http://www.turbosquid.com/Search/Artists/Nikola-Dechev

If you add up all the ratings submitted your get a idea.

Actually like that Milena ( @ RorrKonn's link ) model better than the one that's being discussed. Not as realistic per se, but more interesting in a luridly stylized way. Very talented guy.

Ooooh! That's a nice looking figure. Her feet don't look bad either!

One day when I'm rich maybe..... :)

Oh, hey, thanks, Primorge. :)

--

Surely, when there are no barriers to entry... you can run Daz Studio Pro on an old machine with a cheap video card -- for free... you will have a lot more people who cannot really afford to buy content still being vocal in the market. Perhaps this stimulates them to make content that they would otherwise buy. The next step is selling those creations...

In any case, my experience as a freelancer suggests that when you're working with a largish business they just don't seem to haggle much over anything that clearly has a set price tag, such as a $100 skateboard. Now, how much they'll pay you for your labor -- that is another story.

If this thread stays after my DeviantArt thread was deleted for "Advertising of products or other content sites" then there's some major double standards going on here or just favoritism. No offense OP, but I'm still miffed about my thread vanishing.

Carry on.

Nice model.  Let's hope for an AFFORDABLE weight-mapped Poser Version...

no offense taken, but at that price point -- and with certain features that are good for all of us to study -- it never occured to me it was advertising.

Quote - no offense taken, but at that price point -- and with certain features that are good for all of us to study -- it never occured to me it was advertising.

Yeah. I don't think a single one of us is going to even think about buying it. I thought the OP was sarcasm, not advertising.

29 reviews x 999 = 28971.00.  Not a bad chunk of change so far.  I can't imagine spending that much on a model.  Wow!  :blink:

as wolf and others pointed out, production companies of all types would consider that a "moderate" budget item on a huge project, especially since they can repurpose the model.

Quote - no offense taken, but at that price point -- and with certain features that are good for all of us to study -- it never occured to me it was advertising.

I didn't consider my deviantart thread advertising either, all I wanted to do was connect with fellow Poser users through DA so I could get comments and critiques on my work, and the last time I checked I couldn't buy 3d content from DA either, so I'm just a bit confused is all.

Quote - > Quote - no offense taken, but at that price point -- and with certain features that are good for all of us to study -- it never occured to me it was advertising.

I didn't consider my deviantart thread advertising either, all I wanted to do was connect with fellow Poser users through DA so I could get comments and critiques on my work, and the last time I checked I couldn't buy 3d content from DA either, so I'm just a bit confused is all.

Hmmm. I guess if you link your own stuff, it's viewed differently?

Anyway, why not put a link to your DA profile in your sig? Some people here religiously check out what other forumites are doing at other sites.

Turbo's cut is about 60% last i checked, maybe closer to 70, unless you're in their "club". so the artist still really isn't making anywhere near what the model is worth, unless he gets a LOT of sales, and at those prices, its mostly only studios that buy.

~Shane

Quote - If this thread stays after my DeviantArt thread was deleted for "Advertising of products or other content sites" then there's some major double standards going on here or just favoritism. No offense OP, but I'm still miffed about my thread vanishing.

Carry on.

DeviantArt sells prints and other merchandise of the work posted there. Maybe that's why links to them aren't taken kindly to here. Just speculating tho. 

~Shane

I wonder how it would go here if I lost my mind, opened a Facebook account and solicited for "friends" here?

Quote - I wonder how it would go here if I lost my mind, opened a Facebook account and solicited for "friends" here?

LOL. I'd "friend" you. But not with my "real" account (under my real name) because I don't have a real account under my real name.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - no offense taken, but at that price point -- and with certain features that are good for all of us to study -- it never occured to me it was advertising.

I didn't consider my deviantart thread advertising either, all I wanted to do was connect with fellow Poser users through DA so I could get comments and critiques on my work, and the last time I checked I couldn't buy 3d content from DA either, so I'm just a bit confused is all.

Hmmm. I guess if you link your own stuff, it's viewed differently?

Anyway, why not put a link to your DA profile in your sig? Some people here religiously check out what other forumites are doing at other sites.

That's a really good idea but I was asked not to link to it in any of the rendo forums by the moderator who pm'd me and told me I was "advertising". :/

Maybe I'll do it anyway and see what happens. The worst is it will get removed and I'll just stop posting here, so that's not anything terrible and it can give me more time to make bad renders. :p

But I just noticed the youtube icon at the top of the page here. Yes, it links to the rendo channel but youtube can also be considered a content and advertising site so why would deviantart be off limits?

Bah, sorry for going OT.

Quote - I read about Snarlys SubD script... nice effort but SM needs to implement a proper CC SubD feature in poser if it Seriously wants to move forward in Figure rig handling tech IMHO.

They don't even need to come up with anything original since Pixar's SubDs are now open source for anyone to use:

https://github.com/PixarAnimationStudios/OpenSubdiv

Vicky 4 ,modeled in Modo was SubD then frozen for Poser.
V4 was made for Poser ,The meshes on turbo was not.

Even if thay put a million dollar price tag on them thay still are not better meshes then Vicky.Vicky has all the morphs ,suport ect ect.

Any one that wants can model there own charaters just like
Nikola-Dechev ,Komba3d ,Vicky in modeling app's.
Like Modo,Max,C4D,LW,Even the free app's Truespace,Blender,Hex.
They all have polygone modeling.

Even thou SubD been around sence Poser 1,Poser never put it in ther app.
I will never get that but anyways at least Posers finaly making it to the 20th centery.