I was only pissed in the beginning then quickly realized it wasn't the end of the world. Add to that I was never a DS user.

Laurie

Installation was pretty straightforward.

Only trouble so far is that scaling dosn't work out of the box and that if you leave subdivision on while posing, Poser easily crashes.

But I'd really would like to see better documentation, too.

Not so much for Poser, as you can't really create Genesis content inside Poser (yet), but for Studio.

How exactly can I add a custom morph to the Genesis genepool for redistribution ?

How can I create standalone custom figures that need re-rigging ?

How exactly does the "snap-on" joints functionality work ?

I'd really like getting creative with Genesis, but I need more than a few flashy videos.

I know how to rig and to sculpt but I need at least someone to tell me where everything is. Lol.

Better to say, "lack of documentation for the intermediate user".

JoePublic,

"I know how to rig and to sculpt but least I need someone to tell me where everything is. Lol."

You are so right. Video is great for learning but to get a quick answer to something you need searchable media.

Quote - BTW, like others, I don't have Poser installed to the default location. I never have since Poser 6, and still didn't have any problems intalling the plugin. There definitely was additional information in the Daz forum thread on the importer, and it was advantageous for me to read that as well, in additon to the installation instructions beforehand. Perhaps they could have thought it out a little more before they wrote the instructions, but even so, they were easy to follow. At least, I thought so ;).

Laurie

I don't have Poser installed to the default location either and have never had any problems. I thought I did at one stage but it turned out to be the fault of a python script which was overwriting something it wasn't supposed to in a new service release or something. The only time I have had problems is when Poser was installed in the default location.

The DSON Poser Importer went smoothly for me. I uninstalled it and installed it again without any problems too. I've also made Poser Companion Files to transfer over to Poser with success. However, I do agree that documentation in lots of things is often lacking.

I've played around with Genesis in Poser and as far as I can see the main advantage is being able to morph the character into so many different shapes. Therefore if you are into monsters and non-standard characters it is ideal. However, I have had some problems with clothes not draping correctly or textures looking stretched even when morphing the figure to a standard child which does not seem to be the case when using DS. I think everyone involved in bringing the plugin has done a good job but there are still some problems. No doubt these bugs will be sorted out in future updates.

As far as bending, I am not convinced it bends any better than V4WM. The advantage is that no doubt there will be lots of items made for Genesis in the future. The disadvantage is that it will be expensive if you are an older user and already have an extensive wardrobe for other characters.

I think it is definitely quite fun to play with and as it is free you might as well. However, I'm not sure how far I will be going with this character although I do think it would be quite fun to make clothing items for it. I can fully understand how content creators would prefer to develop for it rather than the traditional characters.

Quote - > Quote - BTW, like others, I don't have Poser installed to the default location. I never have since Poser 6, and still didn't have any problems intalling the plugin. There definitely was additional information in the Daz forum thread on the importer, and it was advantageous for me to read that as well, in additon to the installation instructions beforehand. Perhaps they could have thought it out a little more before they wrote the instructions, but even so, they were easy to follow. At least, I thought so ;).

Laurie

I don't have Poser installed to the default location either and have never had any problems. I thought I did at one stage but it turned out to be the fault of a python script which was overwriting something it wasn't supposed to in a new service release or something and this would have occurred no matter where Poser was installed. The only time I have had real problems is when Poser was installed in the default location.

The DSON Poser Importer went smoothly for me. I uninstalled it and installed it again without any problems too. I've also made Poser Companion Files to transfer over to Poser with success. However, I do agree that documentation in lots of things is often lacking.

I've played around with Genesis in Poser and as far as I can see the main advantage is being able to morph the character into so many different shapes. Therefore if you are into monsters and non-standard characters it is ideal. However, I have had some problems with clothes not draping correctly or textures looking stretched even when morphing the figure to a standard child which does not seem to be the case when using DS. I think everyone involved in bringing the plugin has done a good job but there are still some problems. No doubt these bugs will be sorted out in future updates.

As far as bending, I am not convinced it bends any better than V4WM. The advantage is that no doubt there will be lots of items made for Genesis in the future. The disadvantage is that it will be expensive if you are an older user and already have an extensive wardrobe for other characters.

I think it is definitely quite fun to play with and as it is free you might as well. However, I'm not sure how far I will be going with this character although I do think it would be quite fun to make clothing items for it. I can fully understand how content creators would prefer to develop for it rather than the traditional characters.

I installed it with no problems, and ran a few renders with it, and really, the only thing I like about it is the versatility that comes with unimesh. I don't think it bends any better than V4WM, and Ironman has an excellent joint fix package out that works well for regular V4. I found it did slow poser down quite a bit when I have a genesis figure loaded, and it did not look like an improvement over V4.

Overall, It's just another figure with a heavier overload. I prefer V4/V4WM, and won't be buying genesis content.

Here is a youtube video where we showed the differences in bending in Genesis vs the 4th generation products from DAZ 3D. I hope this will help as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqYFMoAoLoI

I didn't read the whole thread, but just wanted to add my 2 cents.

Genesis expands the ability of morphing and mix matching characters beyond any other figure, but if Victoria 4 works for you right now, and there isn't a point for you in which you say "I REALLY can't do this with Victoria 4" (like turning her into a Troll, along with her 6 years old child),  then I don't see there's a reason for switching to Genesis other than trying a new figure.

All that flexibility obviously comes at a cost, you have to buy every morph pack again, muscle morphs, detail moprhs, etc. Or buy tools that allow you to convert old stuff to Genesis.

To me, it all comes down to real "need". For example, I'm working on some sort of bestiary of fantasy creatures, and up until now, I had to create a creature twice, male and female, using V4 and M4 (M4 not being WM yet), now I have to create it only once and dial the female and male dials on Genesis up and down. It's a very particular need, but that's the point.

Quote - Here is a youtube video where we showed the differences in bending in Genesis vs the 4th generation products from DAZ 3D. I hope this will help as well.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqYFMoAoLoI

...but that isn't a V4 weight mapped, isn't she?

Quote - > Quote - Here is a youtube video where we showed the differences in bending in Genesis vs the 4th generation products from DAZ 3D. I hope this will help as well.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqYFMoAoLoI

...but that isn't a V4 weight mapped, isn't she?

You are right it's the V4 out of the box.

Quote - I didn't read the whole thread, but just wanted to add my 2 cents.

Genesis expands the ability of morphing and mix matching characters beyond any other figure, but if Victoria 4 works for you right now, and there isn't a point for you in which you say "I REALLY can't do this with Victoria 4" (like turning her into a Troll, along with her 6 years old child),  then I don't see there's a reason for switching to Genesis other than trying a new figure.

All that flexibility obviously comes at a cost, you have to buy every morph pack again, muscle morphs, detail moprhs, etc. Or buy tools that allow you to convert old stuff to Genesis.

To me, it all comes down to real "need". For example, I'm working on some sort of bestiary of fantasy creatures, and up until now, I had to create a creature twice, male and female, using V4 and M4 (M4 not being WM yet), now I have to create it only once and dial the female and male dials on Genesis up and down. It's a very particular need, but that's the point.

I'm not sure if it was mentioned earlier in the threads, but another advantage to the user and the vendor creating clothing for the Genesis line, is the need to only add the clothing to Genesis and have the morphs project onto the clothing, saving the user and vendor creating content time and even better money purchasing all the clothing for each figure shape.

Quote - > Quote - I didn't read the whole thread, but just wanted to add my 2 cents.

Genesis expands the ability of morphing and mix matching characters beyond any other figure, but if Victoria 4 works for you right now, and there isn't a point for you in which you say "I REALLY can't do this with Victoria 4" (like turning her into a Troll, along with her 6 years old child),  then I don't see there's a reason for switching to Genesis other than trying a new figure.

All that flexibility obviously comes at a cost, you have to buy every morph pack again, muscle morphs, detail moprhs, etc. Or buy tools that allow you to convert old stuff to Genesis.

To me, it all comes down to real "need". For example, I'm working on some sort of bestiary of fantasy creatures, and up until now, I had to create a creature twice, male and female, using V4 and M4 (M4 not being WM yet), now I have to create it only once and dial the female and male dials on Genesis up and down. It's a very particular need, but that's the point.

 

I'm not sure if it was mentioned earlier in the threads, but another advantage to the user and the vendor creating clothing for the Genesis line, is the need to only add the clothing to Genesis and have the morphs project onto the clothing, saving the user and vendor creating content time and even better money purchasing all the clothing for each figure shape.

A big thing you couldn't do with Gen4 is make a custom body shape then automatically have it work with clothing. People tend to think of the custom morphs in terms of monsters or creatures, but you or a vendor could take Genesis into zbrush or any other tool, make a custom body the way you like, bring it back it and it works with all clothing. For my characters, I take the base M5 or V5 and throw it right into zbrush and sculpt bigger or smaller thighs, breast, lats, feet, arms, glutes, etc... or make him/her smaller or taller... and bring it right back into Genesis... and I don't have to bother clothing makers to support the body shape I just made. This way you have a lot more unique and natual body shapes to render with without relying on a product similar to morphing clothes or clothing makers to support your new body shapes.

If I might ask again for steps or links ... how does one transfer Generation 4 morphs over to Genesis again?  I remember seeing it in one of these threads, but like a dummy I didn't book mark it.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Here is a youtube video where we showed the differences in bending in Genesis vs the 4th generation products from DAZ 3D. I hope this will help as well.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqYFMoAoLoI

...but that isn't a V4 weight mapped, isn't she?

 

You are right it's the V4 out of the box.

It was a pretty nice video, so thanks for pointing it out. I think it was completed inside DAZ Studio too, and I thought I heard a mention of Tri-Axis weight mapping, so how much of that transfers over thru the DSON process is unclear to me. Still, it would be great to see that video re-done by DAZ with Genesis inside Poser. That would be great.

Thanks

Quote - RorrKonn, "Why wont all the app's subdivide tri's ?"

Why should you care? There are no better thing to be in this world than an artist. My favorite quotation is,

"Dreyfus? who's that? I haven't opened a newspaper since I went out from the academy!"

 

If your going to do any Geo Grafting your make Cloths for Genesis ,the quad rule applies.
Poser has not used SubD's before you half to model a certain way for SubD's
You half to model a certain way for SubD Quads.
V3 ,Posseeta ,was not modeled for SubD's.

Genesis is the best character mesh ever made.
100% quad ,descent polycount.Morph in to any thing.
Geo Grafting ,Subdivides.
Genesis will work in any CGI App.

In any topology.
where you have a vertices with 3 lines attached to it ,it's a Tri that's been quad.
Where you have a vertices with 5 lines attached to it It's a nGon that's been quad.

A true quad would only have 4 lines attached to a vertices.
you can not model 100% true quads.
even a cube has quad tri corners.

So how do you model 100% quad ?
model with some tri's ,nGons .subD once =100% quads.
The app's that just left out SubD Tri's and can't SubD a tri made the rule model 100% quad rule.Would have been nice if they exsplained all this to me in 1998.

Quote - I didn't read the whole thread, but just wanted to add my 2 cents.

... if Victoria 4 works for you right now, and there isn't a point for you in which you say "I REALLY can't do this with Victoria 4" ... then I don't see there's a reason for switching to Genesis other than trying a new figure.....

I think that is becoming the bottom line to me.  I think others posted similar feelings. Everyone waits until that one package comes out they can't do without and then they take the plunge.

Thanks

Quote - You are so right. Video is great for learning but to get a quick answer to something you need searchable media.

YES! Thank you for saying this so succinctly.

If you are talking about the GenX plugin here is the link: Hopefully this helps a little :-). Thank you and take care.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2851334

Quote - If I might ask again for steps or links ... how does one transfer Generation 4 morphs over to Genesis again?  I remember seeing it in one of these threads, but like a dummy I didn't book mark it.

Quote - If you are talking about the GenX plugin here is the link: Hopefully this helps a little :-). Thank you and take care.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2851334

 

Quote - If I might ask again for steps or links ... how does one transfer Generation 4 morphs over to Genesis again?  I remember seeing it in one of these threads, but like a dummy I didn't book mark it.

Thank you kindly. 8-)

Here's one:

I FINALLY found the SubD box at the bottom of the "collide against" menu in the cloth room.  With Genesis and a cloth prop loaded, you only have to click on ONE box and run the cloth simulation.  It works beautifully and easily.

Quote - Here's one:

 

I FINALLY found the SubD box at the bottom of the "collide against" menu in the cloth room.  With Genesis and a cloth prop loaded, you only have to click on ONE box and run the cloth simulation.  It works beautifully and easily.

That's great news. I love dynamic clothes. I'm looking forward to trying this out. :)

Quote - I didn't read the whole thread, but just wanted to add my 2 cents.

Genesis expands the ability of morphing and mix matching characters beyond any other figure, but if Victoria 4 works for you right now, and there isn't a point for you in which you say "I REALLY can't do this with Victoria 4" (like turning her into a Troll, along with her 6 years old child),  then I don't see there's a reason for switching to Genesis other than trying a new figure.

All that flexibility obviously comes at a cost, you have to buy every morph pack again, muscle morphs, detail moprhs, etc. Or buy tools that allow you to convert old stuff to Genesis.

To me, it all comes down to real "need". For example, I'm working on some sort of bestiary of fantasy creatures, and up until now, I had to create a creature twice, male and female, using V4 and M4 (M4 not being WM yet), now I have to create it only once and dial the female and male dials on Genesis up and down. It's a very particular need, but that's the point.

This is the biggest issue from my perspective.  What is the "must have" item that would justify buying $250 or more of "gene pools" (I stopped counting once it got to what I paid for Poser 2012).

All I have seen from genesis vendors over the past 15 months are the same "Logan's Run" young adults, and some monsters that do not overly impress me. 

It's great that you can add extra arms to genesis - get back with me when you can get a shirt on him.

The clothing is mostly repeats of Gen4 content.  In all honesty, I have seen exactly 2 genesis outfits that I would like to have.

The only thing I can see genesis being useful for is moving some of my Gen3 characters  to use better maps & better movement - If I could get the Luke & Laura added to the Gen3 gene pool, then I certainly would look into investing in genesis.

All in all, genesis looks like the opportunity to purchase items I already have in my runtimes.

Quote - This is the biggest issue from my perspective.  What is the "must have" item that would justify buying $250 or more of "gene pools" (I stopped counting once it got to what I paid for Poser 2012).

All I have seen from genesis vendors over the past 15 months are the same "Logan's Run" young adults, and some monsters that do not overly impress me. 

 

It's great that you can add extra arms to genesis - get back with me when you can get a shirt on him.

The clothing is mostly repeats of Gen4 content.  In all honesty, I have seen exactly 2 genesis outfits that I would like to have.

The only thing I can see genesis being useful for is moving some of my Gen3 characters  to use better maps & better movement - If I could get the Luke & Laura added to the Gen3 gene pool, then I certainly would look into investing in genesis.

All in all, genesis looks like the opportunity to purchase items I already have in my runtimes.

Well it's definitely a matter of perspective because I don't see that being the case. Besides, that's not a function of technology that you may think this is happening, it's a matter of supply and demand... that's what's people will buy. I've certainly seen more than my share of bras, panties, cop and school girl outfits for Gen 4 and they'll continue to be made because that's what people will buy. Last week I saw three different versions of V4 cutoffs and I'm sure that won't be the last pair that will be made. Just because the tech changes doesn't mean that there's going to be an earth shattering must have outfit... cause people will still be looking to buy bras, panties, high heeled shoes, etc to throw on that character, and vendors will be more than happy to provide it for it since it's an easy sell.

Quote - Well it's definitely a matter of perspective because I don't see that being the case. Besides, that's not a function of technology that you may think this is happening, it's a matter of supply and demand... that's what's people will buy. I've certainly seen more than my share of bras, panties, cop and school girl outfits for Gen 4 and they'll continue to be made because that's what people will buy. Last week I saw three different versions of V4 cutoffs and I'm sure that won't be the last pair that will be made. Just because the tech changes doesn't mean that there's going to be an earth shattering must have outfit... cause people will still be looking to buy bras, panties, high heeled shoes, etc to throw on that character, and vendors will be more than happy to provide it for it since it's an easy sell.

Well, of course my perspective is different, you are a genesis vendor, I am not.

The problem from my perspective is that too much content is just a repeat of Gen4 content that I already own.

There was a real change from Gen3 to Gen4 with respect to content - what it could do, and what it looks like.  Gen4 to Genesis - not so much. 

What has sold at DAZ has changed quite a bit since the Gen3 timeframe.  There is a lot less variety now than there was then.

Quote -  

Well, of course my perspective is different, you are a genesis vendor, I am not.

Please don't play that. I buy lots of content, because I don't make clothing. So I can see when there's lots of bras, panties, etc.

Quote - The problem from my perspective is that too much content is just a repeat of Gen4 content that I already own.

No the problem is that vendors make what sells, irregardless of the generation. It may not be what you want, but it's paying someone's bills.

Quote - There was a real change from Gen3 to Gen4 with respect to content - what it could do, and what it looks like.  Gen4 to Genesis - not so much. 

No, Gen3 to Gen 4 was the change. There was simply lots of unique stuff for gen3 that never got carried over; and there's lots of simple miniskirts, bras and panties now.

But at least I got a surgeon outfit, delivery driver and a short order cook outfit out of the deal... none of which was made for Gen3 or Gen 4.

Quote - > Quote -  

Well, of course my perspective is different, you are a genesis vendor, I am not.

Please don't play that. I buy lots of content, because I don't make clothing. So I can see when there's lots of bras, panties, etc.

 

Quote - The problem from my perspective is that too much content is just a repeat of Gen4 content that I already own.

No the problem is that vendors make what sells, irregardless of the generation. It may not be what you want, but it's paying someone's bills.

Quote - There was a real change from Gen3 to Gen4 with respect to content - what it could do, and what it looks like.  Gen4 to Genesis - not so much. 

No, Gen3 to Gen 4 was the change. There was simply lots of unique stuff for gen3 that never got carried over; and there's lots of simple miniskirts, bras and panties now.

But at least I got a surgeon outfit, delivery driver and a short order cook outfit out of the deal... none of which was made for Gen3 or Gen 4.

I will play it - you are a genesis vendor, and as such, you do have a vested interest in genesis - suggesting that you are "just another customer and nothing more" is a bit much.

Much like Apollo Maximus or Miki, Genesis is a niche character - it hasn't replaced Gen4 and I don't think that will happen anytime soon, because the vendors outside of those who sell at DAZ haven't embraced it.  Here at Rosity, there are what, 3 genesis clothing content vendors?  I see Sickleyield, Dzheng, and Oskarsson.  As far as characters, most genesis characters seem to come with a Gen4 character also.

DSON for Poser could possibly prime the pump as far as customer demand, but the vendors have yet to embrace it.  That may change if DAZ ever gets it's act together with respect to documentation, but I wouldn't hold my breath on that.  DAZ doesn't appear to have gotten much documetation completed in the last 15 months or so.

As a customer, I can see a use for genesis, if Dimension3D gets his Genesis Generation X and his Gen3 add-on pack working in Poser. Or if Oskarsson's Preteens for Genesis work with the DSON importer. 

The only thing I see genesis being good for is filling in the missing Gen3 characters (The YT's and David).  I don't do fantasy or portraits, so what little content is available isn't much use.

well, sadly i rather found disadvantages. 

the importer thingie worked quite well, also the figure seems to morph fine (i only have the starter pack) but after some playing things came to an aprupt halt for me.

No one noticed the -very- conservative limits they have put on every single axis?

try to bend the arms behind the back - you can't. raise the knees, it stops at a very low angle.

try a more 'extreme' Spiderman-Pose..... 

sure, you can tick those limits off, but this can become a very tedious work after a while and shouldn't be nescessary in the first place.

it's a first disadvantage. 

second drawback:

Poser doesn't export the Genesis figure correct. neither to Vue nor as OBJ you seem to get a sub-devided mesh (see butt in image above), so external rendering is a no-go, what breaks my workflow.

third point, already mentioned, without spending a lot of money you can't do anything with the figure, what may be nice for DAZ, but i'm not willing to do.

my impression is - if you'd like to work with Genesis - do it in DAZ Studio, that'll probably save you some trouble. 

edit: oh - and don't click on "Figure - Use limits" - or pooooff - genesis dissapears like a jinny :) 

I thought the limits seemed "realistic"... but you're right, I guess, they are quite restrictive by default. It may be possible to create a pose file to turn them off in different combinations?

I reckon, if your looking to use Genesis in Vue, then going via Poser is just a convolution anyway?

Not sure how well Genesis in DS4 export / import to Vue works though either? Did they sort something out there? I guess that's going OT for this thread...

When I use Poser in Vue, I tend to use the advance import options. I'd have been pretty surprised if these worked with Genesis... yet. Even if Smith Micro and / or Daz have countered for this... and I don't expect they have, so far, with other priorities... I'd think that steps will need to also be taken by EON, for that one?

Quote - As a customer, I can see a use for genesis, if Dimension3D gets his Genesis Generation X and his Gen3 add-on pack working in Poser. 

That would be nice. Try as I might, I just don't like the DS4 interface.

I would imagine making further add-ins to convert items to duf format wouldn't be out the question... although depending who wrote those, the installation of DS4.5 may be required?

But a 3rd-party add-in could perhaps automate DS4.5?

I downloaded the DS4.5 C++ SDK yesterday to have a wee looksie... if that is worth it's salt, then 3rd party automation may be feasible, I guess?

But it may be possible to make dufs without recourse to DS though too???

Who knows, maybe Dimension3d, or PhilC, or someone, is on the case already...

Quote - I reckon, if your looking to use Genesis in Vue, then going via Poser is just a convolution anyway?

Not sure how well Genesis in DS4 export / import to Vue works though either? Did they sort something out there? I guess that's going OT for this thread...

well, i don't know. i don't use Studio and i don't plan to use Genesis seriously, so i can't tell how well they work together with Vue.

but the export issue is more general, it seems. the image i posted above is from a simple OBJ export rendered in Octane. there's definitely a smoothing (or sub-dividing) problem going on.

Yeah, having checked back on EON's site, I can't see any sign yet of them adding duf support to Vue.... yet.

Anyway...

...yeah the obj export could be an issue, more generally... if it can't export a subdivided version, only the base... and this doesn't get resolved.

It's certainly a limitation.

Out of interest, does anyone know if the Poser + Genesis subdivision is being done dynamically. Or is it just doing some sort of geometry switching between obj files that have different subd applied?

Are the Genesis obj files sitting on disk, in the installed Essentials content? Or is the Genesis geometry data compiled into the DSONLoader component(s)?

Quote - I will play it - you are a genesis vendor, and as such, you do have a vested interest in genesis - suggesting that you are "just another customer and nothing more" is a bit much.

Well you play it incorrectly and unnecessarily. People play this card when they run out of valid arguments to give. So a saturation of mini skirts, school girl outfits, cop outfits, bras and panties for V4 made by others has to do with me being a vendor how again? Please keep your points together. Hope I made that very clear.

Quote - Much like Apollo Maximus or Miki, Genesis is a niche character - it hasn't replaced Gen4 and I don't think that will happen anytime soon, because the vendors outside of those who sell at DAZ haven't embraced it.  Here at Rosity, there are what, 3 genesis clothing content vendors?  I see Sickleyield, Dzheng, and Oskarsson.  As far as characters, most genesis characters seem to come with a Gen4 character also.

 

You know, I heard this same argument when Genesis came out, yet it ended up taking most of the new characters and clothing in the DAZ store.... so much it was a created firestorms on the various forums.... many that you were involved in...

Now that it's in poser, it seems you shifted your arguments again like you'll never be satisfied and that's fine. You have an emotional attachment to this whole subject. However the subject  "Can someone unemotionally state the advantages of Genesis over V4/M4 in Poser?", so if you can't do that, especially throwing an "you're a genesis vendor" attack at me for no reason, then perhaps you should find another topic discuss until you can do as the OP asked. ;)

Quote - DSON for Poser could possibly prime the pump as far as customer demand, but the vendors have yet to embrace it.  That may change if DAZ ever gets it's act together with respect to documentation, but I wouldn't hold my breath on that. 

OK, but the importer has been out less than a week, and I'm sure vendors are busy updating their products so Poser users can use them, or taking time to find out how to create items for it.

Quote - DAZ doesn't appear to have gotten much documetation completed in the last 15 months or so.

But how does this relate to the emotional advantages of genesis over V4/M4? It doesn't. Sounds like an app war comment to me?

Quote - As a customer, I can see a use for genesis, if Dimension3D gets his Genesis Generation X and his Gen3 add-on pack working in Poser. Or if Oskarsson's Preteens for Genesis work with the DSON importer. 

Well that's up to the vendors, but have nothing to do with with the topic. You're being emotional again. ;)

Quote - The only thing I see genesis being good for is filling in the missing Gen3 characters (The YT's and David).  I don't do fantasy or portraits, so what little content is available isn't much use.

Unfortuately, if you want content for young adults you probably going to have to work for it and use a little creativity. It's a v4 world so you have to borrow clothes from other figures. I've been able to clothe some of my figures by taking clothes from other figures not supported by cross dresser and scale and resize them against genesis in DS, the export the obj, adjust the cloth in zbrush then rig the result.  But then I can use that for my figures and now create the companion files so i can use that result in Poser in case I want to render there.

But genesis does allow you to fill in the gaps that Gen4 left open.

Quote - ...yeah the obj export could be an issue, more generally... if it can't export a subdivided version, only the base... and this doesn't get resolved.

It's certainly a limitation.

especially when you think of things like Pose2Lux or the upcoming Reality3 or Octane PlugIns.

Quote - Out of interest, does anyone know if the Poser + Genesis subdivision is being done dynamically. Or is it just doing some sort of geometry switching between obj files that have different subd applied?

I export Genesis at SubD 0.Import to C4D if I want it SubD I can in C4D.
GoZ to zBrush at 0.

If your making morphs for Genesis you make the morphs on the base "not SubD" mesh.

Most app's use catmull clark to SubD there meshes it's what D/S Pro uses.

Quote - > Quote - ...yeah the obj export could be an issue, more generally... if it can't export a subdivided version, only the base... and this doesn't get resolved.

It's certainly a limitation.

especially when you think of things like Pose2Lux or the upcoming Reality3 or Octane PlugIns.

Yeah, it was those kind of uses I was thinking of... I reckon Paolo will now have to give the Genesis + Poser compatibility some consideration, relative to Reality3?

EDIT: Of course, Snarlygribbly has already shown that subd can be applied separately, via his own subdivider script... I'm sure Paolo could factor in something similar if he had to?

Quote - > Quote - Out of interest, does anyone know if the Poser + Genesis subdivision is being done dynamically. Or is it just doing some sort of geometry switching between obj files that have different subd applied?

I export Genesis at SubD 0.Import to C4D if I want it SubD I can in C4D.
GoZ to zBrush at 0.

If your making morphs for Genesis you make the morphs on the base "not SubD" mesh.

Most app's use catmull clark to SubD there meshes it's what D/S Pro uses.

Yes, thanks... I knew that, in fact... for once. He he
I was more just intrigued, from a technical perspective, as to whether there was on-the-fly catmull clark subd being applied via the DSON Loader, or associated components. Or whether the subd was pre-applied ("pre-baked") and the subd dial and script menu options were basically just geometry-switching in some way, between different subd versions of the mesh?

It also occurred to me to wonder where the Genesis obj / geometry data lived in the DSONLoader install... I will investigate that later I guess... just my own curiosity there I suppose...

Quote -  

second drawback:

Poser doesn't export the Genesis figure correct. neither to Vue nor as OBJ you seem to get a sub-devided mesh (see butt in image above), so external rendering is a no-go, what breaks my workflow.

If your talking about that zigzag line across the butt, I don't think its a subdivision or smoothing error. It looks like a split edge, along a material zone (or perhaps just a phong break, I can't tell.) The smoothness of the rest of the mesh suggests theres no problem with smoothing or sub-division.

Is there a split/break on textures option either in the export or in the import that needs switching off?

Quote -  

If your talking about that zigzag line across the butt, I don't think its a subdivision or smoothing error. It looks like a split edge, along a material zone (or perhaps just a phong break, I can't tell.) The smoothness of the rest of the mesh suggests theres no problem with smoothing or sub-division.

Is there a split/break on textures option either in the export or in the import that needs switching off?

Actually, it's one of her fingers poking through her backside.

Oh wait no ... you're talkng about what looks like the seam between the hip and the waist, or more probably the hip and the thighs or buttocks. That is possibly where the two groups meet.

Quote - well, sadly i rather found disadvantages. 

the importer thingie worked quite well, also the figure seems to morph fine (i only have the starter pack) but after some playing things came to an aprupt halt for me.

 

No one noticed the -very- conservative limits they have put on every single axis?

try to bend the arms behind the back - you can't. raise the knees, it stops at a very low angle.

try a more 'extreme' Spiderman-Pose..... 

sure, you can tick those limits off, but this can become a very tedious work after a while and shouldn't be nescessary in the first place.

it's a first disadvantage. 

 

 

second drawback:

Poser doesn't export the Genesis figure correct. neither to Vue nor as OBJ you seem to get a sub-devided mesh (see butt in image above), so external rendering is a no-go, what breaks my workflow.

third point, already mentioned, without spending a lot of money you can't do anything with the figure, what may be nice for DAZ, but i'm not willing to do.

my impression is - if you'd like to work with Genesis - do it in DAZ Studio, that'll probably save you some trouble. 

 

 

edit: oh - and don't click on "Figure - Use limits" - or pooooff - genesis dissapears like a jinny :) 

Some interesting feedback, so thanks for sharing.

Quote - but the export issue is more general, it seems. the image i posted above is from a simple OBJ export rendered in Octane. there's definitely a smoothing (or sub-dividing) problem going on.

It would make sense for the obj not to be subdivided. Subdivision isn't native to Poser so I think it would have to be added in order to export subdivided meshes. But if SM can open up the export routines to the subdividing routines of the plugin then it may work. I'm thinking the first step of the importer is to get kinks ironed out of how it works within the main application (where most of the time through setup and work is done), then work on how it's sent out to other applications like through Poserfusion.

I will point out that Vue doesn't handle, at this time, Sub-D of any type. 

LuxRender does use Catmull-Clark Sub-D, you should be able to set the sub-D level to -1 in Poser then let Lux do the Sub-D.

Looks like Octane also supports, or will shortly support Catmull-Clark Sub-D.

That's not correct. Vue 10 (If I recall correctly at least 9.5 also) does support SubD in several algorithms. See the attached screenshot of the options for a Genesis figure imported as .OBJ from Poser. You can choose the smoothing/subdivision type and Catmull-Clark is one of the options. In "iterations" you set the number of subdivision levels. If you watch the mesh you can see its density increasing as you up the iterations. See page 146 in the manual. Please note that this might be a feature of Vue Infinite, not sure.

Ciao

TD

Quote - > Quote - I will point out that Vue doesn't handle, at this time, Sub-D of any type.

 

That's not correct. Vue 10 (If I recall correctly at least 9.5 also) does support SubD in several algorithms. See the attached screenshot of the options for a Genesis figure imported as .OBJ from Poser. You can choose the smoothing/subdivision type and Catmull-Clark is one of the options. In "iterations" you set the number of subdivision levels. If you watch the mesh you can see its density increasing as you up the iterations. See page 146 in the manual. Please note that this might be a feature of Vue Infinite, not sure.

Ciao

TD

Definitely new then. :) Google failed me. :) Setting Genesis at Sub-D Level -1 and letting Vue do the Sub-D should then work. Since I don't have Vue above 8, I can't check this personally, but it should improve the image posted above.

OBJ export from Poser pro 2012 to Vue works fine. You actually get both the base and the subD mesh as default (if the subD bone is checked in export options). If you do that you can go directly from Poser to Vue with the subD intact (no need to do it Vue, but you can subdivide in Vue). If you do not deselect the other bones (other than subD and the "internals": teeth, eyes,...), you get two copies of the figure in Vue on top of each other. One subdivided, one not.

The screenshot shows what I am talking about: The obj import has two meshes for Genesis: _SUBD is the already subdivided mesh from Poser (150976 Polygons) and the rest are the groups of the un-subdivided mesh (total of 37744 Polygons). They import both in the same position obviously.

Ciao

TD

seems, the cage gets exorted, too.

You no how there was a V3.obj ,V4.obj in geometry folder.
Is there a V5.obj in geometry folder ?
If yes what is the polycount ?
If no.
If you export genesis out of Poser at SubD 0 what is the polycount ?

yup, there's definitely a second mesh overlayed:

the export obviously needs some work...  

1. Only the subD bone of the sub-divided Genesis (and the necessary "internals" eyes, teeth...)

2. Only the base/cage and then  sub-divide in your target app.

In the image above I used Genesis with the V5 morph and exported her with Poser Pro 2012 as .obj. The resolution was set to Subdivision level 2. Only the subD bone was selected for export. The resulting obj was then imported into Vue 10.5 Infinte and rendered (no subdivision in Vue).

Looks fine to me.

TD

Quote -
You no how there was a V3.obj ,V4.obj in geometry folder.
Is there a V5.obj in geometry folder ?
If yes what is the polycount ?
If no.
If you export genesis out of Poser at SubD 0 what is the polycount ?

There is no V5.obj because V5 is a morph of Genesis. You need to look at the Genesis geometry. As far as I know the geometry for Genesis is stored in the data folder. Formerly in the DAZ Studio specific formats and now in the DSON compatible ones.

If I export Genesis from Poser as .obj with subdivision level set to -1 or 0 (i.e. off) Vue shows 37744 quads which for some reason is 2* the amount that the lowest level in DAZ Studio has (18872 and no, that is NOT because the mesh is doubled). Not sure why.

Ciao

TD