Freebies. We all love them, most of us couldn't do without them. They save us a fortune. These items are there when we can't afford content or make certain things ourselves. Most content creators have started out by making them and use these as showcase pieces, often as a way of attracting other artists to the creators work or products. In return some artists show support by purchasing products or recommending freebie creators to others. Others leech and hoard. But just as these virtual holy grails have such an important cultural standing in the poserverse, they can also bring disharmony. Not just the debates about commercial/non commercial. Or the open appreciation or vitriolic hostile attacks on creators that appear in equal measure. Equally because of the nature of how they are made and delivered. Online and virtual, freebies can be seen as something we have an automatic right to. Plus being free there can be a perception as they cost nothing to make, they have no inherent value. Thats always been the way. it's the symbiotic relationship. it's how it is. Wow betide any one that wants or dares to change that. Though lately being a freebie creator has put me in a bit of a quandary. To make nice freebies takes time which has a "cost". For some big companies thats obviously become an un-affordable cost. Now only those who directly buys gets the goodies. Which on a business level I can totally understand. Equally I'd can see how they'd like to reward their loyal customers. Personally I like making freebies, I like seeing how everyone uses them so creatively. I don't have any problem in giving stuff away. Nor do I automatically expect anyone to buy stuff/recommend me etc etc. These are gifts. It's simple. While I'd rather not 'charge', equally I know a store can't exist by giving everything anyway. Especially now most artist's spending is incredibly limited and even if they want to support a creator they can't afford to. So my "solution" is make general freebies and extra ones for "supporters". Doesn't have to monetary either, it could be simple as a recommendation. But I'm still undecided if this approach is the right one or not. So any thoughts?

ShareCG allows you to mount a Paypal Donate button in your 'portfolio'.  Wonder if Rendo would allow a Donate widget as part of the stuff that goes under each forum entry?

sparky, one may try pay-per-freebie mode.  not daz BOGO (buy one, get one) but rather if they use yer freebie in commercial render, you get 25% of the gross.

I am under no impression that freebies I create are of such good quality that they merit donation or are useable in a commercial manner. Sigh. Also, as I am not a vendor, I don't have recourse to givng special freebies away to customers. So there ae different categories of freebie creators as well.

As the creator of your freebies, you are perfectly entitled to devise how they are distributed and the terms of use

When a freebie requires me to jump through many hoops to get it, I'd pass. It's just human nature, perhaps.

Lastly, thank you for all your very good freebies through all these years ! Much appreciated.

It's a good question.  Each of the things I've put up on sharecg has been something I made because I thought I had a need for them, or a possible use, but over the years I've also found some of my ideas changing.  Some of my first were done in a day or two, and they look like it.  The last items I put up were a week or more, a lot of head scratching, a few "Ah-Hah!" moments, but for the ideas I have now, they serve better. 

But I'm aware of the time it can take, and how many times you can go over an item and see things you don't like, sometimes doing it over and others just refusing to see it.  I'm well aware I'm a long way from anything of commercial quality, but again, it serves my purpose, even if that purpose was to just kill time and see what my mind comes up with.  Probably this puts me in a different position than most would be, because once I have the model, it's what I want, and if someone else would maybe like it, I post it.  I can easily understand that eventually someone might expect or wish for a little compensation for the time and effort, but so far, I haven't felt that myself.  Ockham's suggestion of the "donate" button might be a way, but I have no idea how successful that is in practice.  It might be worth exploring.

Or, if you have something you feel worthy of going commercial, give it a try.  There's nothing saying you can't continue to make freebies too.

Doric

...Can't really add much to this conversation other than I've seen a lot of freebies that could very easily be commercial products and many commercial products that should have been freebies. I recently pulled my meager collection of freebies out of circulation. This isn't an indication that I'm done with the practice of sharing, just got tired of seeing all the things I could of and should of with those items. Anyway, cool topic for a thread.

I've been in a similar quandry myself. My freebies definitely "cost", not for the end user, but for me. For instance, I've spent nearly a month on one freebie..lol. It's part of my nature to spend as much time on my freebies as I have on any commercial item. Times are tough and people can't spend as much on things they love as they used to. I have friends who say I should be selling my creations rather than giving them away. I'm still on the fence on that...in the past people have shown their generosity to me in various ways (not always monitarily, but generously nonetheless) :).

As for the paypal link thing, I've had one on my old website for years now and have gotten a total of no donations. LOL I think it's pretty much a waste of time ;). I think generally, people will grab all the freebies they can and buy stuff that's not free, but won't "buy" freebies. There are however exceptions to this rule, but they are far and few between.

Laurie

I'm not sure what your point or quandry is, but I'll give my 2 cents worth. Perhaps the question regarding offering items for free or for sale boils down to the artist personality, and point of view. I have used several wonderful freebie utilities that I am puzzled as to why they are offered for free. They are of such caliber that the creator could have made a fair amount of money if they had sold them. But that certainly is a personal choice. For me selling items is half the fun. It's very exciting and fullfilling to launch a new product and see the sales take off. Selling items places a value on them, when items sell it tells you the creator or artist that your work is good enough that people will spend money for them. That is very gratifying. When you want to share your work with others selling it as opposed to giving it away creates a whole new deminsion and I think a feeling of accomplishment.

As far as the artist cost are concerened, I have spent thousands of dollars on software and hardware, $2300 on a computer I built, $550 for a Asus Pro Art calibrated monitor, Adobe Creative Suite, Poser Pro 2012, Carrera 8 Pro, ZBrush, Pen tablet, it all adds up. I can spend months working on a project that I intend to sell. I am currently finishing up a project I've been working on for 3 years. So even if you do sell it your still basically giving it away considering your investment in time and equipment. I occasionally see where people complain about the cost of items, If they had any idea how much work and time goes into creating these things, they would blush at their ignorance. I do see many examples of items for sale that are nothing more than a few turns of the dials and a skin texture that someone else made, That in my opinion is not art and not talent. It is doing the bare minimum to throw something together and see if it sells. But at the end of the day art and creativity is a highly personal endever, its part of you, what you do with it is entirely your choice. Selling items does push you to get better, to improve your knowledge and skills. Sales dollars gives you a real tangible measuring stick and you might just make a little extra money on the side.

what would be best is if there was an artists commune of sorts where people can work together to make freebies and release them to like minded artists

i hate doing renders myself but i know their importance in marketing even free items

i have a few projects that ive been on for over a year that were all intended as freebies and will be released as such , but it would be easier and faster if i had a colaboration with others that knew my modeling software and the translation to the most common formats

i have poser and studio and both are foriegn to me

but blender is native to me

i can work fluently in the most hated software where most cannot but i cannot tanslate that into the more common softwares

what i have offered here as a free item  in the past has always been something that someone has expressed a need for but that is ending because people dont appreciate .obj only

Well, I make freebies for others to use with little to no rules on them.

To me, a freebie is exactly that free, no need to donate etc.

Those that give back to the community sometimes dont't get any feedback etc. from those that use the item.

It can be soul detroying at times, when you have spent a long time getting something right and then reaslease it to........ silence.

I think most freebie makers would like just a thank you in appreciation for their time and work.

Those that want people to donate, shouldn't call their items freebies, they should be called donateware.

The main thing is that when I make a freebie, it's originally for myself to use, if others want to use it, then great.

Making commercial products can also be soul destroying. You do all the work, put it into a store and then you get little to no sales.

By doing freebies, I have no pressure to make things of the current phase etc. I can do what I want and enjoy learning as I'm doing them.

All the best.

Greart Uncle LROG

paganeagle2001 that's prety much how I see things also

most of my free stuff are made for my projects, I don't design an item aiming for it to be succesfull, and the quality improvement is a personal challenge for me...

I am always curious how people use my free stuff but all those years I have seen very little use of them, I guess most download and never use...

However my joy seeing them used even rarely is so big that's worth making and sharing :biggin:

Quote - As far as the artist cost are concerened, I have spent thousands of dollars on software and hardware, $2300 on a computer I built, $550 for a Asus Pro Art calibrated monitor, Adobe Creative Suite, Poser Pro 2012, Carrera 8 Pro, ZBrush, Pen tablet, it all adds up. I can spend months working on a project that I intend to sell. I am currently finishing up a project I've been working on for 3 years. So even if you do sell it your still basically giving it away considering your investment in time and equipment. I occasionally see where people complain about the cost of items, If they had any idea how much work and time goes into creating these things, they would blush at their ignorance. Selling items does push you to get better, to improve your knowledge and skills. Sales dollars gives you a real tangible measuring stick and you might just make a little extra money on the side.

I'm not sure if I do agree. First of all, if I do create a freebie, it is of the same quality as the items I do sell. I spent just as much time on it and even freebies do push me to get better and improve my knowledge and skills. It really makes no difference, whatever I do create, just a render for fun, renders for customers, content for fun, content I do sell, content for projects, it makes no difference.... I push myself to get better and better then before. No shortcuts because it's free.

Secondly.... selling isn't the same as giving it away for free not at all. Yes, I've got the expensive hardware and software needed to create content, but..... I've bought it all with money from my sales. I've got a simple rule, I never take money from the household money or my job to finance my content creation. Yes, of course, I borrowed some money from myself to get started, but I paid it all back and once I did I started to expand and grow. Creating content didn't cost me a thing and it's actually even making me a profit. If that would be the case, I don't think I would continue creating items. OK, I'll admit it doesn't take me 3 years to create something and to be honest that is quite extreme and you will never get anything in return for that, but I doubt you have worked on it 3 years day and night. As a vendor you need to find the balance on how long you spent on a project and how much it will give you in return. Once you find the balance, it's actually worth to sell content.

As for the whole free or not, I do think we've had this discussion before, many times and we may never solve the issue at all :-) Personally, I've made a choice to create content and ask a little in return. People who do buy my items pay only $1.99 per item. That may sound way to low, but for me it works well. I also have some items here at Rendo and you pay a lot more for them..... that is not my choice, but because Rendo sets the price for an item. Personally, I hate that and I prefer not selling here at all, but my customers have asked for it and they do realise they pay more per item. It's not that my items aren't worth a higher price and they do sell well here at Rendo for the full price, but it's just a choice I've made. $1.99 isn't free, but isn't expensive, people can afford it and it pays for my expenses and gives me room to expand. I cannot afford giving everything away for free, live is expensive enough as is, so I need to ask a little in return to finance the whole content creation and ensure I can keep on doing it. I doný think that's to much to ask from a customer and is totally fair.

Thanks for all the responses folks - some good debate here! Though I do have to disagree with those who say their quality isn't good enough :) It's often the simplest stuff thats the most useful and most fun. Take something like spacebones beveled cubes, with generous licencing terms, thats saved weeks of work. ockham...thats a really good idea. Plus have one under gallery posts as well. --------------------- Nancy... I'd say thats more for products than freebies, plus I think you'd have problems collecting your cash. --------------------- infinity10 - I think your point about categories, is the crux here. Plus you're certainly right about not hoop leaping, it has to be a simple process and above all fair to everyone. --------------------- PrecisionXXX... Oh yes, the creative side certainly plays a big part here. I've often given stuff away that should be "product" purely because I want artists to share the enjoyment in that. Using a freebie to try new techniques is another thing as well. Especially where it involves something new or technical, like P9's new lighting system. There the feedback from helps us all learn. --------------------- primorge... Yea I look at some of my older ones occasionally and think do they need pruning. But I tend to leave them up in case any wants them. --------------------- LaurieA... Reckon you've got the right approach there, think it's vitally important to have the same "build quality" in both product/free. I'm also think having both product/free in a creators portfolio is also a a good idea, not just to showcase work, but also as in some ways it's kinda like.. "Free supports those of us who can't afford to buy. Product allows those who can afford it to support creators" Which is where I'd like to say an extra thank you to those who can help. But Like you observe, it's not always about money either, often the best support is simply support. I certainly don't want to monterise or "force-pay" like the big D has done. --------------------- chris1972... In a way I'm idea rattling here to get an idea of how feels about this issue. Like yourself I enjoy seeing how well (or not) a product/freebie can do. Free usually wins on numbers :) Also agree theres different levels of achivement/satisfaction twixt the two. However equally as you say theres a cost to doing it, and as less buy, thats one of reasons why I'm pondering using different approaches. But I don't want to lose the "good" side of freebies, so really about it's getting the balance right. --------------------- unbroken-fighter It's called rendo :) Seriously though, I found once I'd started modeling texturing/promos did sometimes become less enjoyable. I can also understand your problems with formats and software, for example I don't rig so I'm either dependant on those who can or have to design/make 'static' stuff. Though working with .OBJ isn't in insurmountable, just import a mapped model it into poser, texture and save it as a prop. Indeed if you get stuck, just ask and I'll do some for you.

paganeagle2001, pitklad, aeilkema ..will reply to your comments later.. gotta go to work :(

Interesting. It's one of those questions that everyone will answer slightly differently, so in other words you may as well do your own thing. ;)

There's always a cost to a freebie maker, although it can sometimes be well hidden. In your case, it's the lost time that could have been spent making something new to sell, assuming that new stuff is attractive in sales terms. On the other hand, freebies drive more traffic to your site and presumably help your search engine ranking, which might increase your revenue slightly, but I'm guessing that new, shiny items are better for your bottom line than attracting new eyes to old stuff.

Financially speaking I don't really care whether people come to my site or not, since I won't make any money from them. Fortunately it isn't about finance. :) In my case, the actual cost is purely down to philanthropy on my part: I choose to maintain a professionally hosted website because it inflates my ego. Maybe I'll live longer as a result. :D

Quote - As for the paypal link thing, I've had one on my old website for years now and have gotten a total of no donations. LOL I think it's pretty much a waste of time.

Same here - I had a donate button at Morphography for some time, but I never got even a wooden nickel from it so I cleaned up the site design by getting rid of it. Once or twice a year someone will click through my Renderosity affiliate link to buy something, and I get a little bonus. DAZ have changed their affiliate scheme, and a third site's affiliate link never made me a cent, so I've dropped both those.

Some interesting points coming through.

As mentioned, people can put a dontae button on their own site, but how much does it actually generate?

Unless you own your own site it is very hard to do the $1.99 items. Most stores have a rule of a lowest rate you can charge. This allows both sides to get something from it.

I have no probs with $1.99 sales as you get some amazing things from them. Sometims you get better sales as well. If you can sell more at $1.99 than by pricing the item at $9.99, then go for it. People love a bargain!!

Freebie makers generally are people who like a challenge. They want to change textures, they want to make things and learn how to use their software. Then they give it back to the community. Now, as they learn more and more, they start to go the way of wanting to be a PA. Great, but there is a difference. The people willing to get something for free, will check everything before buying something. What is the quaility like? Can I use it more than once? etc. Sometime the low amount of sales can put people off continuing in their craft.

Freebie makers should never be looked down on as they make amazing things, sometimes better than commercial work. Just because they give their work away for free does not mean they haven't put in the same quality of work.

It takes time, practice and a lot of revision of objects, textures etc. to getto the finished point. Nothing comes easy to start with, but....... If you take the time and gradually increase your skills, then you will benefit from what you do.

The main thing I think freebie makers want is just a thank you for taking the time for doing what they do.

I'v always encouraged people to have a go at making things, you don't need all the latest and most expensive software. There are great things that are free or reasonably priced.

Start small, please don't try and do a fully armoured mech soldier first time!!! Lol.

Make a wristband, learn to UV it and then add textures to it.

A nice little starter and you then become encouraged to have a go at smothing a little bit more complicated.

Remember, small steps can lead to bigger things.

Just my ramblings!!! LOL.

Great Uncle LROG

In my mind its like horse racing! If you have money on a horse, the race is far more interesting!

This is one of those things where one size is not going to fit all. You could try the way DAZ did it for some time, giving the ‘base’ away and charging for extras. This might work well for your building and environment type sets, e.g. give away one or two parts and sell the rest as a pack or if it makes sense, individual items.

If you go with a ‘donate’ button, think about making it a set donation, e.g. $1, £1 or whatever. Removing the decision on how much to donate might yield more spontaneous donations.

I don’t know if anyone has ever done this but listing how much the item ‘would’ cost if you were selling it might help educate people, at least as long as the felt the price was reasonable. It might encourage a few more donations, who knows. In terms of sales, maybe people could do ‘tie-ins’, e.g. if A is selling a serving wench outfit and B has a medieval tavern, mention the items on each respective page and offer a discount to those who purchase both. It would be nice if the store could handle that automatically.

I doubt anyone gets back in monetry worth, the time that they put into their work.

Quick example:-

Making a simple top for V4.

First you have to model it, quicker if you have a starter outfit..

Now you have the UV and put in material zones.

Then you have to rig it.

Then you have to texture the top.

Now, just for fun I'm going to say I work for $5.00 an hour, Okay, I know that's cheap and no where near the price I would actually charge.

The item takes 4 hours to complete.

So that's $20 in to start.

Now, am I using an MR textures, if so, I have to add the price of that as well.

So, I may have used 5 textures fromn a single resource. That resource cost me $10.00

So, that's $30.

Now, that's all before I add in the original cost of the software I use etc.

Now, no one is going to pay $30 for a simple top, most would pay between $1.99 and $5.00.

The only time you get the money back is through sales.

Working on a 50 50 ratio and going on a $5.00 price, I have to sell 12 items just to break even.

Now, think of all those content makers that can take months to get something to the store due to fine detail etc. There is no way they get the time to money ratio back.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

That's true Richard. The only way any vendor can make up their time is thru volume and in that way you need to have a good handle on what sells and what doesn't.

For me, making freebies is just part of the fun of making something new in Poser. In the end if people like it and want to use it then it's a bonus, if not, I still had MY fun (and sometimes a whole lot of frustration...lol).

Laurie

If a content merchant offers a freebie and I take the time to download, install and use it and then decide I like it and it shows good quality, then I will be positively influenced to purchase from them.  It's like the food-court vendors at the local mall offering little sandwich-samples to passersby.  Next time I may decide to get that sandwich.

I avoid the not-for-commercial-use freebies.  They are a time-bomb in the library.  I do not have thime to back-track and check the terms of use if I decide to use it a year after I installed it.  If a merchant offers a limited freebie, I not only will avoid it, I possibly will not buy anything from them because they atracted my attention for nothing.

Unbroken_fighter, I wouldn't say most hated program, just the most intimidating, due to the unusual interface.  As far as only .obj, once it's loaded into poser and rescaled, if the material zones are there, usually no problem making it into a prop and saving that, which I do quite often.

Laurie, re: frustration.  if I ever reach the point that it's just click, click, click and presto! a model!, that's the time I go look for something else to do.  Half of the fun is, "Okay, I messed that royally, now how do I fix it?"  The only really logical answer sometimes is "object mode, select object, delete, start over". 

mrsparky, I'm also leaving some things up in case someone might want them, but maybe I'm going to start taking some down at the end of this week.  If there aren't many views and fewer downloads, then they're just wasted space.  A few of my earlier models are going to be re made, then the old one deleted, but if they're not being downloaded, no reason to leave them up.

Doric.

Agree Laurie, my fun is taking on a little challenge and being able to release it for others.

Frustration, oh that's  big part some time, but.... It can also teach you something, if only not to press that button you don't quite know about!!! Lol.

Software has beenh mentioned, so to me, use what your happy using. Use the highest paid for software, or free ones. It really doesn't matter as long as you get the enjoyment out of the experience.

I know people knock Blender etc. as it's free, but, look at what has been made with it before consigning it to the bin. Have a go with the free stuff, you will gain in experience and will find things that will and wont work for you. The same thing applies to paid for software.

I have tried quite a few and the modeller that works for me is Silo 2 Professional. Now, I'm not saying everything else is bad and everyone should use Silo. The reason I work with it is that it just works for me, no big loads of options on the screen etc.

The other reason I got into Silo is down to John (Fugazi1968) and his Digital Tailor tutorials.

Have to agree about those Not for commercial use ones, you never know what the future brings.

Also,  little thing for PA's........

Please, please put on the main promo page if you cannot use a MR item for free items. So many time I have seen something that would work and then, those dreaded words are in the read me file. Sometimes very tucked away.

So, to end up. Get a modeller, have a go and enjoy the fun and frustration of making things.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Perhaps your own history and how you see yourself plays a more signifigant role in this than anything else. I wanted to be a professional artist from the time I was a child and studied art in school. I ended up in the construction industry all my working life. Now that I am retired, I have the oportunity to fullfill my dream.

There may be an interesting deep psychological aspect to all this and how you perceive "yourself". My goal is to be an artist, therefore selling my work to me is the natural course to take. I do not see myself as a teacher persay, It is not my personal identity. So if I were to create a tutorial it would not occur to me to sell it, but to offer it as a freebie, a jesture of goodwill to the community. Many people do sell tutorials, in fact I would imagine its a pretty big industry. Someone previously stated that there is a "goodness" associated with giving items away, I feel that way about instruction, advice, and tutorials, but not actuall product that I have created. People who primarily see themselves as teachers ( their personal identity) would probably be far more likely to "sell" their instruction.

Think about musicians for example, musicians dont dream ( I would imagine) about playing free shows at the local Friday night social. They dream about playing at Madison Square Garden or on Tv. Being payed for what you do carries with it a certain level of or feeling of accomplisment.

I'm sure that how we see this issue is based on a lifetime of experiences, probably many Freudian aspects as well. As a person 60 years old I have observed in my lifetime that people can see and interpret things in dramatically different ways, it is what makes us individuals.

Go ahead, create and sell if that is your aim.

Just enjoy what you are doing.

But......

Before you start making a profit, add up the cost of your hardware, software etc. Once you have that then you have a target to get yourself into actual profit.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Reading through the above, I'm seeing that my feelings about content creation is pretty much akin to a lot of other people here. Though I do like paganeagle2001's point about donateware. Here thats NOT the case, 90% of my freebies will be still be totally free, available to all. I just want to somehow reward those that can support. So I guess really these extra ones shouldn't be called free, but are more like a "quasi-product". As for some of the other points raised.... I don't like or make freebies with restrictions, Not keen on ones that are limited either, that seems pointless. Though I think a simple fair licence isn't unreasonable. Non commerical for anything fan arts based is commonsense as that's not really ours. As for grabbing and not using, think thats just human nature when something is free. Look a supermarket when they give small samples away, some folks will near kill each other for 1/2 a dog biscuit:) Cost & moneywise, I think it's safe to say most of us do it "for love", and baring the cost is part of that. Though it would help if stores could be more flexible on things like affordable pricing and advertising, so we could make a few bucks if we do need help to defray the cost a little. Also certainly a great beliver in 1.99 pricing :) Dnate buttons are useless. Only time I've ever had affiliate payments is from sharecg. Quality wise I think freebies often these are better than product, because we want to showcase our skills, and theres no major rush to get stuff out. So we do the best we can.

PrecisionXXX ....where are they ? Let me know, I'll grab them and have a play. chris1972..Totally agree that an artists history and self perception plays a massive part here. I'm a unreserved working class commie leftie type, who's leapt from community based arts, to IT, caring etc and my dream of doing academic stuff. Afterwards the uni helped me set up my store site, so now the lot is mixed together. Plain truth is most of those jobs don't pay well, you do them because you care or enjoy them. But we also have to pragmatic and realistic enough to know when the rent needs paying and that community's only truly function when people do things together. Like selling stuff or teaching/learning to each other. Hence why I think raising debates like this are important. OK, we don't all agree, but I think we all learn and gain from them. ...probably many Freudian aspects as well.... Now theres a trusim :) Freud would've had a field day in the gallerys here :)

People need to do what they want with their creations - sell them, give them away to all, give them to only certain people, give them as a limited freebie.  Those who are interested can do whatever's needed (or not needed) to get the item.  That said - 

One thought is to consider rewarding people who have bought in the past in addition to those who buy today.   There are some content creators who have a set of freebies for those who have bought something at some point.

As I understand your current plan for these extras, someone who's bought a lot in the past doesn't get these freebies, while someone who buys one  item does.  So they can just buy one little thing and get a freebie, while those who've bought a bunch don't.  Now, that may be the idea, to get new sales.  If so, that's certainly your choice and we all need to abide by it.  :)

Quote - PrecisionXXX ....where are they ? Let me know, I'll grab them and have a play. 

Sharecg, go to poser and type Greybeard in the search.  One gone already, but more than 400 views, fewer than a hundred downloads, and it hasn't moved for weeks, so I guess nobody liked it any better than I did. (vbg), I have no idea why I put that one up there anyhow.  Pretty easy to see which ones are on the block, just look at views,well, you can't see the stats as I do, maybe not so easy.  Anything with Adracima in the name is probably going to get the axe, that was something I did for myself, and again, worked myself into a corner that I couldn't get out of so it kinda died.  The boys kidhouse will probably come down, the other kidhouse will get a makeover pretty soon and be replaced,  The one room school will definitely get a makeover, when I look at the house that was that school when I went there, I can really see where memory is dim at best.  About the only thing that's right is where the door is.

Doric.

aproctor - nah my feeling was to make these available to anyone who's bought before as well as now, made something and let me know (so I'd stick it on a "community links page") or even just been supportive. Bascially support those that support me. But I'm still undecided about if this is a good idea or not. The most important thing is not to exclude anyone, thats not me. Thats why I put this idea out for disscusion. Doric = thanks. I'll grab sometime tommorow. Tad late here :)

Well, then if you are choosing to make it something for customers only (and I do understand the desire to give back a bit extra to people who specifically support you), then I think the way you're doing it is nice.

As to being a good idea in general -

My personal input is that I like to see freebies being free for everyone equally, without preference to certain people or those who get there before others or who meet certain qualifications. 

:)

Quote - ... So my "solution" is make general freebies and extra ones for "supporters". Doesn't have to monetary either, it could be simple as a recommendation. But I'm still undecided if this approach is the right one or not. So any thoughts?

There are four sorts of "Freebies" -

1. Hey, look what I made! Here, you can have it. Lol, I dunno what I'm doing...

2. Somebody said they wanted one of these. So, here, you can have it too.

3. I like making freebies! I love giving stuff away! Here's something for you! Have a nice day!

4. Here's a freebie. If you really like it, you should consider stopping by my website, my online store or just send me a donation!

What sort of Freebie do you want to make? Pick one.

With each sort of freebie being made, a certain mindset has to be adopted by the creator.

1. You're sharing stuff because you've discovered the joy of creating.. stuff. You might suck at it. But, that's ok, 'cause everyone sucks at something. So, dump your freebies out there and have fun with it. Accept sensible criticism so you can better your skills at creating things. Somewhere along the line, you'll make people happy and, if you keep the right attitude, you'll be happy, too.

2. Bajillions of people love you because you take the time to create that Bunny Launching Bazooka Robot From Mars That Has Tentacles Where Its Feet Should Be And Likes Pizza model that only one person requested, but everyone secretly wants. You like feeling as if you've helped someone and enjoy exercising your skills. No, not everyone wants what you created as a Special Order, but that's fine too. Just remember that you signed up for it and if nobody ever thanks you, well, that's just the way life goes. Keep being a Good Guy 'cause that's just who you are.

3. You keep the community filled with color and life. Your creations populate the runtimes of most users, even though you only have five written responses in the forums where you've posted thousands of freebies. That's fine, 'cause it's not the "Thanks" that you're doing this for - It's for the simple pleasure of spreading around a little bit of cheer while exercising your creative talents. It's much more fun to have fun with other people, by releasing your creations, than it is for them to sit on your runtime, doing nothing. The world loves you, even if they don't show it.

4. You're serious this time. You need traffic and cash, not necessarily in that order. But, you're a fledgling marketer of your own stuff. The easiest way you can think of to attract customers is by introducing them to your work through giving away freebies. So, you adopt a tried-and-true marketing approach. Everyone uses it, from food companies sponsoring taste-tests in supermarkets to bands giving away clothing. Every business conference and trade-show is filled with truckloads of give-away bling in order to attract contacts and possible sales. Everyone does it, so you're going to do it too. You'll have to focus your efforts and put in the same amount of work developing these free products as you would with your for-sale creations. That's to be expected, since you're showcasing how good your products are, not how quickly you can create junk that nobody would ever buy. Don't expect "Thanks", either - Consumers know what you're doing and understand the marketing strategy you're using. If you happen to have some fun along the way and brighten the day of someone else, so much the better. Nobody said you couldn't have fun and take enjoyment from running your own business, but nobody said it'd be easy, either. "Nobody" sure say's a lot of crap for being a nobody...

What sort of Freebies are you going to produce? It may be that you will produce any of those at any given time. If you do, you must adopt the right attitude, else you'll encounter difficulties.

In my opinion, a "Freebie" is a freebie - No strings attached. If you're giving those away, you have to adopt an attitude that is comparable with that. If you put six months into developing a true freebie, buy a thousand dollars worth of software and a new rig in order to make things easier for you, you don't get to change the attitude you have to adopt, just because developing that freebie was hard. :D That's not how the Freebie Game is played!

I would suggest that you continue to produce freebies, but make them high-quality works that don't take too much of your time, but will be seen as valuable freebies, in their own right. Yet-another-hue-change-on-tired-hair-texture won't net you many customers, but it's sure easy to do. :D Do a hundred of them and maybe you'll have enough hits that one or two potential customers will buy something. But, do a high-quality and valuable freebie that showcases your unique talent and you can ride that single freebie for all its worth, marketing-wise.

If it were me, I'd exploit all avenues of approach. I'd put up true freebies, freebies with a hitch (contact lists for mailers), bonus freebies for subscribers to your website/forum, exclusive add-ons for freebies that are actually worth the money a customer would pay for them and contract work, filling special requests that individuals would be willing to pay for, but may not be marketable due to their esoteric nature. Someone out there, surely, must want a Bunny Launching Bazooka Robot From Mars That Has Tentacles Where Its Feet Should Be And Likes Pizza... And, they'll be willing to pay you good money for it.

Do the best work you can on your freebies, don't begrudge the time necessary. A quality example of your skill is what you want, not some junky thing you did in ten minutes 'cause you own a copy of Photoshop! Yes, the sweat going into it is painful, but that's what "sweat-equity" is all about. You gets out of it whats you put intos it...

Well put! Applause 

Quote - Bunny Launching Bazooka Robot From Mars That Has Tentacles Where Its Feet Should Be And Likes Pizza

OMG! WANT! :D Well, actually I have no immediate use for such a thing, but I'd definitely stash it away in case I did need one... Is it a coincidence that this sounds exactly like a description of a Mr. Sparky freebie? :lol:  

" rather if they use yer freebie in commercial render, you get 25% of the gross."  don't think that would work.  you make a picture and 10 yrs later your neighbour sees it in your window and wantst to buy it and you won't even remember what went into it.

How about a donate button, like shareware computer proggies.  If people find it useful and have the cash they donate.  If they are poor well they probably won't donate and that is probably okay since you meant them as free anyway.

I'll quite happily have one of those Bazookas!!!! LOL.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Quote - ....I avoid the not-for-commercial-use freebies.  They are a time-bomb in the library.  I do not have thime to back-track and check the terms of use if I decide to use it a year after I installed it....

Same here! And it's really irritating with some of the Rendo freebies that say "comercial use" here, then when you get to the download page (eg. ShareCG) they have some kind of restriction.

I'd rather not use freebies, but sometimes there's only a freebie version of something available, or it's some kind of must-have item.

Don't get me wrong.... I completely appreciate the time and effort people put into their freebies, but unless they have a full commercial use licence they're no good to me. I'd rather pay for an item - even if it's just a token amount - and know it's properly licensed and usable. There's always the nagging possibilty with freebies that the creator may decide in the future they don't want them used commercially and that could cause problems.

Yep toastie, I am with you.  I would rather a price tag on everything, then a freebie that I go and dowload and install only to find after I render something that there was a restriction I didn't notice eg a conflicting readme with a website EULA or something.

contacting the vendor doesn't always go smoothly. they may answer or answer with translation software etc.

Love esther

What do you mean by "some kind of restriction?" I allow commercial renders on all my freebies, but I don't allow anyone to use textures or the mesh without my permission if they want to use it in a commercial PRODUCT. LOL (I always thought that was pretty fair). Never minded ppl using anything of mine in an image they were plannin to sell tho ;).

Laurie

Quote - Yep toastie, I am with you.  I would rather a price tag on everything, then a freebie that I go and dowload and install only to find after I render something that there was a restriction I didn't notice eg a conflicting readme with a website EULA or something.

contacting the vendor doesn't always go smoothly. they may answer or answer with translation software etc.

Love esther

My renders are for me only and I do no commercial work and have no intention to do so at present.  That said I have no idea where the future would take me and because of this I have no freebies in my runtime.  Someone has already said they are ticking time bombs I cannot think of a better description.

I am very glad they exist as it allows those with no, or limited budget, to enjoy a hobby that gives me and, hopefully them,  so much pleasure.

Quote - What do you mean by "some kind of restriction?" I allow commercial renders on all my freebies, but I don't allow anyone to use textures or the mesh without my permission if they want to use it in a commercial PRODUCT. LOL (I always thought that was pretty fair). Never minded ppl using anything of mine in an image they were plannin to sell tho ;).

Laurie

It's something I've had a few times with freebies. It'll say commercial use here, but then on its home page it may say something different - either completely different, like non-commercial use only, or something like a credit is required for use - which is no good for commercial renders. Of course it's fine if someone wants to restrict the use, but then it shouldn't be marked as commercial use.

I really wish Rendo would split the freebies here into commercial and non-commercial use sections. While I understand that some people don't want the items they've created as a free gift used for commercial renders, it's really irritating when you've found something you need in the freebie section, just to discover you can't use it.

One issue with the "commercial use" is how that is defined, and it is definitely defined differently by different creators.

Some people mean no commercial use in the way Laurie does - you can make a render with that item being part of the render, but can't use the mesh, textures, etc, in a commercial product.

Others exclude the use in a commercial render as well - THAT one can be a challenge, because (as others have said) you don't know what can happen down the road - if you create it will you remember 5 years from now that you used such and such in it?   And, is a contest a commercial render if there is a prize?  What if you use it in an ad where the image is advertising something you created and are selling (unrelated to the particular item rendered)?  Say you've created a new candy bar, and you have an image on your website advertising the candy bar.  You use V4 in the render (eating the candy bar), and she's wearing a freebie outfit or a freebie texture for an outfit.  Is that considered commercial use by those who say "no commercial use even as part of a render?" 

lt's all how the creator defines it.  So it gets very complicated.

I'd like to see 3 categories

1-free with no restriction

2-commercial use - as part of a commercial render only

3-personal use only - no commercial renders or anything else (and with this, they'd have to define if something like a render entered in a contest is "personal use".)

I do understand that sometimes the reason for the "no commercial use including renders" if that a model of something that's licensed, like a Star Wars character, for example.  Then it can only be used in Fan art (though do contests count?).

Like I said, complicated!

I guess another idea... going beyond the concept of open freebies, is the idea of a site that provides more of a content exchange system.

Content would be downloadable per quotas, that a user builds up as kudos points... either through contributing content, reviewing content perhaps, or donating to individual content submitters, or to a collective fund (that is shared out somehow).

As I say, this does mean the content being shared via such a sytem is not really freebies... but is instead being sold, via a more flexible barter sytem, I guess.

Just mentioning this because it cropped into my head as an idea. Has this sort of thing been done before or elsewhere, for Poser, or other 3d content?

I suspect the idea is just a bit, I don't know, too convoluted to really work well...

Mr Sparky, you have enormous goodwill in this community. Whatever you decide, I'll still support you.

Since I have learned to make content I buy less and when I do buy, it is usually because something amuses me or I appreciate the artistry or skill with which it was made. I hardly ever buy something because I need it or because it is cheap. If I need it I can make it - if it is cheap I probably could benefit more from making it than from buying it. I also give away what I make, and make what I need, can learn from, or can use. A freebie is freely given, but saying thank you is good manners and I always appreciate that.

Attached Link: Price Versus Value for Digital Products

Sure, freebies are fun to have, but many times "you get what you pay for". Sometimes this means the freebie is poor quality and somtimes it means the customer won't get technical support. Sure, the creator might be a nice guy (like mrsparky), but there comes a point where even the most patient people say "You didn't pay for this, so why should I hold your hand and teach you how to use Poser".

And I've seen spaceship models that the modeller claims was from Star Wars, but the proportions and colors were wrong. His reply, "It's a freebie, so what do you expect"?

However, I think freebies are an excellent way for new modellers to show off their talent and build a customer base. That way, they can iron out all the issues before selling their models. Free add-ons, like textures and poses, are also a great way to thank customers for their purchase.

Alisa....the latter is also the consensus with emailed comments and where I'm leaning towards at the moment. Morkonan...I'd say that pretty much covers it :) Though I wouldn't say theres a singular path, it's often a blend of choices and approaches. What I'm also finding interesting is the range of views is pretty similar. Free should be free, though it's OK to do something else as long as what you do is easily accessible to most folks. Thats it's not totally exclusive to a select few. Licensing seems to a big part of that viewpoint as well. Low level advertising also seems to be slightly acceptable as well. VP.... no probs. Indeed I was wondering how long before commercial pressures ban the meer mention of a site that uses freebies as a promotional tool. Which I think will be a big mistake as freebies kinda feel like a "creative life blood" to to the community. These are the niche items, the fan art stuff, the stuff that wouldn't sell. But without them our hobby would be beyond bland. Though whatever happens I certainly wouldn't use the way that some app developers do to promote things. Earlier today sticking photos on an android tablet, noticed some nasty hardcore videos in the root. For something secured and only used to get some live wallpaper and a card game, it was a tad unexpected. Seems when you give consent with some apps, the makers use the devices kinda like a global advertising bit-torrent client to transfer files and adverts around. Anyone with cash can buy into that and transfer what they like. Meaning you could end up with absolutely anything. So maybe we have it lucky in poserdom :)

I like the idea of freebies being add-ons to paid content... or indeed vice versa... paid content as hi quality, essential add-ons to a free base product.

As a consumer both those variants, of the same kind of principle, work well for me..

A lot of freebies are for paid items, especially extra textures.

I've often bought something because I know that I can make additional textures.

When DAZ brought out Veteran Wardog, I knew straight away I could do a Resident Evil style for it.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Well, PrecisionXXX, searching for your free items came up nil (now I know they're on ShareCG). Having heard that Rendo search was screwed up, I tried searching for myself. I do think search is screwed up but I found that I had won two gift certificates that I somehow never knew about - Do they IM people on these things or only email? At any rate, one is still valid so I now have $25 to spend from the great 'Win Poser 6' contest of 2000 and whatever :-) No sign of the other one but since it had something to do with Prime I imagine you had to join Prime to use it.

Nil is probably not too far from what I'm going to leave.  Some merit reworking, some don't, but that's taking an awful lot of storage for what isn't too good to begin with.  Good ideas maybe, poor execution of those ideas.  I can do better.

Doric.

You'll get there PrecisionXXX ;). This probably won't help, but I've been modeling for over three years and I still really struggle. Maybe by year 10 it'll sink it. Hahaha.

Laurie

Some nice models there PrecisionXXX. I grabbed the several of the buildings, including Mercantile, the School and the Shady Nook. From the previews, they remind me somewhat of Geralday’s great pieces, good looking and lightweight – and some have interiors and furniture – shoot!. Watched the last part of Ken Burns’ Dustbowl documentary last night and a lot of these are evocative of that general era and area. So many of the men who fought in WWII came from (and if they were lucky returned to) places like this. A few of them still exist but mostly are nearing ghost town status. I doubt that we will ever see their physical or cultural like again.

Ya do what ya gotta do r.e. removing them, especially if it’s costing you money or space you need for something else. One of the joys is finding gems that are just what you are looking for. Maybe the creator doesn’t think that much of it but for those not being able to model anything at all or necessarily afford to buy things it might be a great boon. One of the disappointments is running across a something, only to find that it’s been removed. As an example, there are similar houses, and one can always check the Trimble Warehouse for buildings albeit in SketchUp format. Am I going to find something like the “Shady Nook,” that perfectly captures every small town leisure attraction – probably not. If you replace it with an improved version great. If you remove it just because it’s not good enough for your personal standards, I suppose that’s fine too but it would be a shame IMO.

I would not have known that these existed if not for this thread (which is turning out to be oddly lucky for me). Unless it’s prohibited, I don’t see why you don’t put a link to your ShareCG things in your sig – or post one in freebies here with a link in the readme. I’m sure a lot of folks here would love these, but don’t necessarily search ShareCG.