Quote - It's unfortunate the way Lali's Bits was marketed; it's not simply a gentital figure, but is actually an excellent system for correcting many of the bending issues of V4's hip, arms and legs.  It would have been far better, rather than having it ghettoized (in some folks minds) at R'otica, to instead sell "The Lali System" of the the correction morphs here, and have the "Bits" as a $7.50 add on at the other place.

Kudos on an intelligent response from someone who may have actually gotten Lali' Bits to work. If you saw what happend to my test renders bits or no bits it was horrible. The mesh exploded after the figure was saved and reopened. Looked lke alien belly burster erupted from...well I won;t tell you where. While I was working on it it was all great. It didn't like saving, closing and reopening. Still waiting from my man at Erogenesis to tell me what needs to be done to fix it. But marketing is all important for any product sold, Poser or otherwise. If someone in the know with enough working experience with the product beyond what it was originally used for (his own erotic comic art),could mention it,  there could be a larger market share out there form him to tap into.

"the download doesnt work. shame...I need a good vagina"

I hear the surgeons are doing wonders these days :-) . The Karina prop is good, Arduino has some nice work. If you go back to V2, Traveler's prop was perhaps the first decent one though a challenge to texture match. AdamThwaites has simething called Anatomically Correct IIRC. Haven't delved into that area in years as my toons don't need enhancement. My Vickies used to be ready to rock though. Unfortunately, none of the bolt-ons will replace a properly constructed figure. For the most part only some of the Japanese makers have addressed that. IIRC Dina V did but it was more symbolic. Even the best examples are pretty unrealistic. If you wanted to do even a semi-accurate 3rd world medical clinic illustration, you'd probably have to go to Zygote/3D Science and pay more than a night with a high end courtesan - maybe not even mid-range Elliot Spitzer model. * *

Poseidentech's Misty V4 is still the most easy to use and versatile of the lot I'd say... Misty's all morphs (and alot of them) so the results aren't quite as "distended" as those of a prop. Of course Misty also doesn't have all the fixes and other internal hijinx that Lali does, plus she is pricey ($35). One thing I will say about misty is that Poseidentech certainly poured many hours into pushing the polys around (A+ for that sort of thing).

If you visit Poseidentech's site (just search the name, not going to link for TOS reasons) and look at Misty make sure to check out the Morph Video promo for some profoundly disturbing Poser animation of Misty's assets(?)... Wince.

This thread has prodded me into experimenting some more with Lali as a diversion, so far I've got a morphs++ and custom morph targets character set up with her without a hitch. Need to adjust the prop and it's specific morphs a little and do some texture editing... I have off tommorow so I'll work a little more with Lali as a break from my current project and do some rendering. I'll post the (artistic nude) results and commentary here in a couple days I imagine...

Oh, and shante... I'll be back a little later to give you my thoughts on your images (off to look more critically now).

Well I signed up at erotic signature and had a gander at your imagery there, shante. Also many of the images you have here. You're obviously quite comfortable with using Poser to create your work, despite what you may say. Overall I'd say that you seem to put some emphasis on palpable atmosphere and light in your images, which is a good thing. Additionally you seem to populate your settings with a good usage of props and your posing and composition is pretty good too. Texture choice for your scenes looks good also.

I think though that perhaps you are using an older version of Poser so the results show in the renders. There is a real old school Poser look to your efforts, which for me personally isn't necessarily a bad thing, but perhaps a little jarring if you've gotten used to the look of IDL, complex skin set ups, and other more contemporary Poser tropes. Also your use of Poser legacy figures rather than more recent figures lends a peculiar quality that is compounded by the render style. There is definitely a feeling of uncertainty about when these works were created. I'm undecided as to whether this is a detraction from your images or if it's simply a stylistic device that I'm unaccustomed to seeing lately. I think It would be less successful if v4 were rendered in such a way simply because of all that has come since. It's like the images are caught between being decisive about style simply due to the style inherent in the technology, if that makes any sense (and more likely arising from my personal concerns about this, and things looking like Poser)...

It's probably contradictory for me to comment succinctly in a positive or negative way as I'm conflicted about realism vs. stylization in Poser and frequently lean more toward the appreciation of non-realist techniques. I feel this is more sympathetic to the limitations of the medium. It's a difficult thing for me to verbalize and really a work in progress in terms of my perception about Poser or CG in general being used to create static imagery, particularly when figures are involved (animation obviously introduces many things that operate on the suspension of disbelief or methods of diversion from the fact that don't happen with a still).

Anyway, in a nutshell (as my thought processes are becoming too circular and blunted right now) my critique is this; It looks like old Poser, but nicely made old Poser... which I can appreciate, unlike many others I'm certain.

Subject matter is a completely different topic, one that I didn't concern myself with when trying to look analytically at your renders. Yeah, it's erotica. No I didn't see any penetration that I can recall so I imagine that in a broad sense it's not pornographic... although I don't define penetration as the definition of porn in a philosophical sense. Comparitively tasteful I guess, subjective. Just glad I didn't see any torture porn or rape themes or any of the other overt abominations that Poser seems to spawn legally. Tentacle porn is bizarrely humorous, ditto with alot of hentai. There's many shades of course, but the graphic depiction of torture is something that I can't understand and consider the deranged fodder of sick fucks... that shit aint art by any stretch.

Quote - "the download doesnt work. shame...I need a good vagina"

I hear the surgeons are doing wonders these days :-) . The Karina prop is good, Arduino has some nice work. If you go back to V2, Traveler's prop was perhaps the first decent one though a challenge to texture match. AdamThwaites has simething called Anatomically Correct IIRC. Haven't delved into that area in years as my toons don't need enhancement. My Vickies used to be ready to rock though. Unfortunately, none of the bolt-ons will replace a properly constructed figure. For the most part only some of the Japanese makers have addressed that. IIRC Dina V did but it was more symbolic. Even the best examples are pretty unrealistic. If you wanted to do even a semi-accurate 3rd world medical clinic illustration, you'd probably have to go to Zygote/3D Science and pay more than a night with a high end courtesan - maybe not even mid-range Elliot Spitzer model. * *

.<! LOL

I hadnt even caught how that sounded

I will have a look at the examples. As I tend to do a high percentage of adult material I wouldnt mind paying a good price for a nice vagina(oh no I keep getting the giggles now everytime I say that)

I have been looking at lilbits, but not sure of it yet.

Though to be honest, they are easy to tweek in post work.

ah poor vicki always needing a helping hand in that area:P

EDIT:OH though you know what would really be helpful? SSS on some of those vaginas.  then again.....not to sure how often I would need light to show through that.......o.0

Quote - "the download doesnt work. shame...I need a good vagina"

I hear the surgeons are doing wonders these days :-) . The Karina prop is good, Arduino has some nice work. If you go back to V2, Traveler's prop was perhaps the first decent one though a challenge to texture match. AdamThwaites has simething called Anatomically Correct IIRC. Haven't delved into that area in years as my toons don't need enhancement. My Vickies used to be ready to rock though. Unfortunately, none of the bolt-ons will replace a properly constructed figure. For the most part only some of the Japanese makers have addressed that. IIRC Dina V did but it was more symbolic. Even the best examples are pretty unrealistic. If you wanted to do even a semi-accurate 3rd world medical clinic illustration, you'd probably have to go to Zygote/3D Science and pay more than a night with a high end courtesan - maybe not even mid-range Elliot Spitzer model. * *

What pisses me off is that DAZ was Zygote..or a part of it....when, recognizing the Poser Community growth and income potential, branched off to concentrate exclusively on Poser and now D/S content creation. Apparently the Poser user base is NOT as small as was hinted at somewhere in this thread, for DAZ to rely so much effort and cost in doing what it does. So, if they create such detailed models to sell at the high end market why do they turn into shrinking violets when it comes to creating or adding somewhat more realistic anatomy functions to their Poser & D/S models?

Quote - Well I signed up at erotic signature and had a gander at your imagery there, shante. Also many of the images you have here. You're obviously quite comfortable with using Poser to create your work, despite what you may say. Overall I'd say that you seem to put some emphasis on palpable atmosphere and light in your images, which is a good thing. Additionally you seem to populate your settings with a good usage of props and your posing and composition is pretty good too. Texture choice for your scenes looks good also.

I think though that perhaps you are using an older version of Poser so the results show in the renders. There is a real old school Poser look to your efforts, which for me personally isn't necessarily a bad thing, but perhaps a little jarring if you've gotten used to the look of IDL, complex skin set ups, and other more contemporary Poser tropes. Also your use of Poser legacy figures rather than more recent figures lends a peculiar quality that is compounded by the render style. There is definitely a feeling of uncertainty about when these works were created. I'm undecided as to whether this is a detraction from your images or if it's simply a stylistic device that I'm unaccustomed to seeing lately. I think It would be less successful if v4 were rendered in such a way simply because of all that has come since. It's like the images are caught between being decisive about style simply due to the style inherent in the technology, if that makes any sense (and more likely arising from my personal concerns about this, and things looking like Poser)...

It's probably contradictory for me to comment succinctly in a positive or negative way as I'm conflicted about realism vs. stylization in Poser and frequently lean more toward the appreciation of non-realist techniques. I feel this is more sympathetic to the limitations of the medium. It's a difficult thing for me to verbalize and really a work in progress in terms of my perception about Poser or CG in general being used to create static imagery, particularly when figures are involved (animation obviously introduces many things that operate on the suspension of disbelief or methods of diversion from the fact that don't happen with a still).

Anyway, in a nutshell (as my thought processes are becoming too circular and blunted right now) my critique is this; It looks like old Poser, but nicely made old Poser... which I can appreciate, unlike many others I'm certain.

Subject matter is a completely different topic, one that I didn't concern myself with when trying to look analytically at your renders. Yeah, it's erotica. No I didn't see any penetration that I can recall so I imagine that in a broad sense it's not pornographic... although I don't define penetration as the definition of porn in a philosophical sense. Comparitively tasteful I guess, subjective. Just glad I didn't see any torture porn or rape themes or any of the other overt abominations that Poser seems to spawn legally. Tentacle porn is bizarrely humorous, ditto with alot of hentai. There's many shades of course, but the graphic depiction of torture is something that I can't understand and consider the deranged fodder of sick fucks... that shit aint art by any stretch.

Hmmm!? Interesting critique. Got lost on some of the commentary but a few things slipped through to me.

First let me say the examples you are probably referring to having seen are indeed older. My newer work is NOT here at Renderosity. I hated posting here for so long when other options opened up to me I stopped. The TOS limitations, having to create a seperate thumb, etc.

I post newer work at:

DeviantArt...if not too erotic....more of my fantasy than erotic work is posted there

Renderotica....if no bestie or loli is involved...the site otherwise is VERY boring of late so I don't go there too much anymore

HentaiFoundry (though they are a grande pain in the creative A-holio to get past their stupid review methodology for posted images, frustrated,  i stopped posting there too) are the best repositiory of cool erotica specially in the Xeno, futta and hentai realms

EroticSignature images are at least for the most part created in P4 so, yes older and smacking of the P4 render engine simplicity. But I do think despite that huge deficiency, and despite being technically challenged in hardware and software and saavy of the more intricate functions of Poser back then, I did manage to pull off some interesting images.

Rape and torture sicken my. I prefer the imager in that genre to seem more consensual/contractual  than forced or if not, less violent and just mostly controlling. I have had real relationships where that was the case so the notion migrates into my work the same way. Even the tentacle stuff is more something that has gone past dread and pain and forced to."..hmm...I liked that! I think I will go and get me some more!"...jaded kinda stuff. Realistically that would never happen but where does it say erotica has to work realistically.

Realism in the render....I always wished I could create the Poser stuff to look more like my photography, afterall it is used to sublimate the ideas I had for photographs when I started and even now tries to accomplish this. I will never be technically saavy enough to accomplish that and have pretty much come to accept that. I just can't get past the learning curves to learn other 3D apps that will allow me to do that...so I accept the limitations and do the best I can.

This is all why I hesitate to call any of it ART!   ;)

"Rape and torture sicken my. I prefer the imager in that genre to seem more consensual/contractual  than forced or if not, less violent and just mostly controlling. I have had real relationships where that was the case so the notion migrates into my work the same way. Even the tentacle stuff is more something that has gone past dread and pain and forced to."..hmm...I liked that! I think I will go and get me some more!"...jaded kinda stuff. Realistically that would never happen but where does it say erotica has to work realistically."

I'm of a sympathetic opinion as I've had similar life experiences and relations that have informed some of my gender role/signifying or fetishistic images. You've also mentioned your past use of drugs which is also a path that I spent a great deal of time and energy traveling down. Now I just stick with the weed and a very occasional adderall or dexie, and not even so much with the weed anymore, quit drinking outright. Seems we have some things in common, which is refreshing to find amongst new strangers. I guess I'm about 10 years younger though... a lot of crap can happen in 10 years as the train of time hurtles down the tunnel.

Another peculiar similarity is your image titled "black snake cock" or something, can't recall exactly... Anyway, I did this sketch many years ago and I was thinking of re-doing it with cg, when it appears on my site in the future and if you happen to see it I just wanted to point it out in case you thought that I had bit off your idea. Truly hard to be original anymore, I guess?!

"Realism in the render....I always wished I could create the Poser stuff to look more like my photography, afterall it is used to sublimate the ideas I had for photographs when I started and even now tries to accomplish this. I will never be technically saavy enough to accomplish that and have pretty much come to accept that. I just can't get past the learning curves to learn other 3D apps that will allow me to do that...so I accept the limitations and do the best I can."

As you might have gathered, conscious attempts at photo-realism (or whatever the best term may be) in art isn't a big concern with me... there has to be a layer of style that lends an additional meaning, or the artist's hand. Again a problematic topic in relation to cg. I will say that I'm a fanatic for obsessive detail, but not so concerned with actuality(?).

Ok. Back to my Lali permutation...

"So, if they create such detailed models to sell at the high end market why do they turn into shrinking violets when it comes to creating or adding somewhat more realistic anatomy functions to their Poser & D/S models?"

IIRC, and this was at best second hand and years ago at that, the rationale was that such accoutrements had were unnecesary for 'artistic' work. Mike needs his schlang to avoid looking gelded but Vickie can get by with a chaste crease at most. Feminists can either recoil or rejoice depending on their perspective. There's the school market rationale but if nipples and nuts can be optional, I reckon lady 'bits' could be as well.

I know that you guys know that after they've burned the snuff purveyors, they're hardly going to mint medals for orifices being stuffed with tentacles and assorted unrecognizable offal, no matter the owner's apparent consent. It's fine to have standards and principles - indeed I am strongly in favor, it's just going to be a bit ironic sometimes when viewed from outside. Not a criticism, just an observation.

The entire DiD genre is a fascinating meme. From moustache twirling villians in the 20s,  to aliens menacing space maidens on the covers of sci-pulps of the 50s, and the perhaps inevitable progression to Erin Moran's creepy worm encounter in Galaxy of Terror. Somewhere, things went off the rails. Never seen any of the SAW franchise and after a few minutes initial blood splashing foray into the 'New' Hawaii Five O, it seems even network television is a bit too much for my tastes these days. The Japanese have managed (in some cases) to retain a bit of artistic style. Perhaps their lesser degree of illogical avoidance and attempts to deny or obfuscate the underlying sexuality the meme is based on allow them to concentrate more on eros and less on thanatos.  

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Quote - "So, if they create such detailed models to sell at the high end market why do they turn into shrinking violets when it comes to creating or adding somewhat more realistic anatomy functions to their Poser & D/S models?"

IIRC, and this was at best second hand and years ago at that, the rationale was that such accoutrements had were unnecesary for 'artistic' work. Mike needs his schlang to avoid looking gelded but Vickie can get by with a chaste crease at most. Feminists can either recoil or rejoice depending on their perspective. There's the school market rationale but if nipples and nuts can be optional, I reckon lady 'bits' could be as well.

I know that you guys know that after they've burned the snuff purveyors, they're hardly going to mint medals for orifices being stuffed with tentacles and assorted unrecognizable offal, no matter the owner's apparent consent. It's fine to have standards and principles - indeed I am strongly in favor, it's just going to be a bit ironic sometimes when viewed from outside. Not a criticism, just an observation.

The entire DiD genre is a fascinating meme. From moustache twirling villians in the 20s,  to aliens menacing space maidens on the covers of sci-pulps of the 50s, and the perhaps inevitable progression to Erin Moran's creepy worm encounter in Galaxy of Terror. Somewhere, things went off the rails. Never seen any of the SAW franchise and after a few minutes initial blood splashing foray into the 'New' Hawaii Five O, it seems even network television is a bit too much for my tastes these days. The Japanese have managed (in some cases) to retain a bit of artistic style. Perhaps their lesser degree of illogical avoidance and attempts to deny or obfuscate the underlying sexuality the meme is based on allow them to concentrate more on eros and less on thanatos.  

 

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speaking from an "artistic" point of view(and not an "erotic artist point of view") a figure that is physically accurate IS part of the artistic process. even doing the most chaste scene of a nude lounging on a sun bed....its un-nerving to see them "barbie doll'ed".

they have created the ability to meld figures to genesis(god right now at 3am I cant remember the correct name for the process) yet poor vicki 4 is left lacking.

Generally speaking, adults are using these models. Yes there is a very broad spectrum of moral views on the matter. But the fact remains, they are selling a human female form.  Its kind of an "of course" she should have all that a normal female human has.  That is why its kind of a soar point that she doesnt and we are left digging around to find an adequate "fill in".

Hmm, From my point of view when using Poser I haven't really found much call for elaborately modeled genitalia on any of the female figures, there's already so many themes to explore. I actually collect this stuff because it's weird. Of course if I ever needed a split wet beaver (thanks mr. vonnegut!) I'd just rummage through my creaking toy box and voila. Usually the vestigal vickie crease works fine. Between the karina, Lali, misty, satanica inc., Strideribellum, external modeler and postwork I can't see needing much more in that department. Have to admit that I am working on a creepy crawly figure in this theme, though. Where the hell I'm going to put it after it's done is undecided. Renderotica I guess?

Did you ever manage to get a copy of the She-bot, DarkElegance?

Quote - Hmm, From my point of view when using Poser I haven't really found much call for elaborately modeled genitalia on any of the female figures, there's already so many themes to explore. I actually collect this stuff because it's weird. Of course if I ever needed a split wet beaver (thanks mr. vonnegut!) I'd just rummage through my creaking toy box and voila. Usually the vestigal vickie crease works fine. Between the karina, Lali, misty, satanica inc., Strideribellum, external modeler and postwork I can't see needing much more in that department. Have to admit that I am working on a creepy crawly figure in this theme, though. Where the hell I'm going to put it after it's done is undecided. Renderotica I guess?

Did you ever manage to get a copy of the She-bot, DarkElegance?

Yes yes I did ^.^ he was very nice. I actually got both shebot and hebot.

As far as the vaginas go...I think I am going to experiment in sculptris and see how that goes. It will give me a break from my lovely beasts I keep making lol.(pigbeast was born the other night, and now the joke in the house it will be "manbearpig" when its finished. He will go with the devil creature thingy I was working on lol)

I hope you post your work that you are working on. I tend to post my more extreme stuff at r'otica...when I post it that is lol.]

"I hope you post your work that you are working on. I tend to post my more extreme stuff at r'otica...when I post it that is lol.]"

Yeah, that's the whole problem with this stuff... It's not enough just to enjoy the process, then you have trundle out your wares for onlookers to gawk at. I wonder if there have been any Henry Darger's of CG discovered yet? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Darger

...The medium has a lot of catching up to do, still haven't heard of any "Geniuses" of 3D art.

BTW, DarkElegance... I've looked at your Poser work, pretty damned slick. That "Sewer Queen' image really stood out to me for some reason.

I do erotica. No excuses no guilt. I have been doing it for a very long time.

I just want the tools I need to continue until I either hate doing it or die. Good riddance on both solutions. When I was a photographer I did fine art nudes, erotica and fetish imagery using real models with all their Bits! When I couldn't do that any more for whatever stupid reasons I am tired of getting into, Poser took over as a way to sublimate my muses' calling. An awful compromise but it helped the migration from my muse. When I was dong pen and ink, sculpture and air brush, I did imagery of the same ilk with female and male figures Bits integrale. When I got into Poser I stopped drawing, sculpting and airbrushing and as much as I missed it, Poser became my bridge to my muse again.

So I don't think its too much to expect the Poser figures I use to have all their Bits and working the way I might need them to visually do for my imaging especially sinc I can not wrap my old head around creating my own Realistic figures or bits or anything else 3D.

I am getting tired of all this damn injection and stuff. It would just be good to have it built right from the box so if you need it you can have it.  But if you don't you can dress them up like the Barbie Dolls and create guilt free squeaky clean vanilla "ART" with and without poke-through. I just think we should all have the creative option to do what we want to do. It costs no more to include the bits than to exclude them and it sure would make it all easier for everyone.

End of story.

Quote - "I hope you post your work that you are working on. I tend to post my more extreme stuff at r'otica...when I post it that is lol.]"

Yeah, that's the whole problem with this stuff... It's not enough just to enjoy the process, then you have trundle out your wares for onlookers to gawk at. I wonder if there have been any Henry Darger's of CG discovered yet? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Darger

...The medium has a lot of catching up to do, still haven't heard of any "Geniuses" of 3D art.

BTW, DarkElegance... I've looked at your Poser work, pretty damned slick. That "Sewer Queen' image really stood out to me for some reason.

No ofense but the whole point of art or pictures is to be seen. if we create it just for our own edification it is just a wrong squandering of whatever creative gifts from God we have. I like hearing that an image touched someone. I like feelng that it goes beyond my own internalization and self indulgant preocupation. And I especially like it when publishers or galleries or people who like my shit want to pay me to see it and show other people. The artistic motivation is as it has always been to get the love of women, the respect of our peers and to impress the consumers of art enough to make a decent living with what we do. What is wrong with that?

"if we create it just for our own edification it is just a wrong squandering of whatever creative gifts from God we have"

Answer: I'm a Satanist.

"The artistic motivation is as it has always been to get the love of women, the respect of our peers and to impress the consumers of art enough to make a decent living with what we do. What is wrong with that?"

Answer: nothing, also... tell that to Van Gogh.

:)

Quote - "I hope you post your work that you are working on. I tend to post my more extreme stuff at r'otica...when I post it that is lol.]"

Yeah, that's the whole problem with this stuff... It's not enough just to enjoy the process, then you have trundle out your wares for onlookers to gawk at. I wonder if there have been any Henry Darger's of CG discovered yet? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Darger

...The medium has a lot of catching up to do, still haven't heard of any "Geniuses" of 3D art.

BTW, DarkElegance... I've looked at your Poser work, pretty damned slick. That "Sewer Queen' image really stood out to me for some reason.

Thank you.

it seems that the new "roxie" in pp2014 is "detailed" in the aspect we have been discussing.

you can read it here in this thread http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2867255&page=7#message_4066106

She looks nice as well. though something odd about her mouth. But that can be tweeked out.

If she is as detailed as they say....Poor vicki may take a backseat.

Quote - > Quote - "I hope you post your work that you are working on. I tend to post my more extreme stuff at r'otica...when I post it that is lol.]"

Yeah, that's the whole problem with this stuff... It's not enough just to enjoy the process, then you have trundle out your wares for onlookers to gawk at. I wonder if there have been any Henry Darger's of CG discovered yet? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Darger

...The medium has a lot of catching up to do, still haven't heard of any "Geniuses" of 3D art.

BTW, DarkElegance... I've looked at your Poser work, pretty damned slick. That "Sewer Queen' image really stood out to me for some reason.

 

No ofense but the whole point of art or pictures is to be seen. if we create it just for our own edification it is just a wrong squandering of whatever creative gifts from God we have. I like hearing that an image touched someone. I like feelng that it goes beyond my own internalization and self indulgant preocupation. And I especially like it when publishers or galleries or people who like my shit want to pay me to see it and show other people. The artistic motivation is as it has always been to get the love of women, the respect of our peers and to impress the consumers of art enough to make a decent living with what we do. What is wrong with that?

my DA accounts are my "I am behaving" accounts. I have had work removed from DA(oddly, no nudity, no contact, two fully clothed figures and the offending item was feet away from them >.<) I test the waters at R'otica. But I do not post some work simply because I have had too much stolen. (At freelancer you can actually see jobs where people are hiring others to remove watermarks) So if something is particularly ....eh.."interesting" or of a quality I want to save purely for print or a client. I dont publish it on the web.

Though with the introduction of Art of Darkness I will get a chance to play abitevil grin

“they have created the ability to meld figures to genesis(god right now at 3am I cant remember the correct name for the process)” Geografting or perhaps in this case, Gynografting ÷)

“speaking from an "artistic" point of view(and not an "erotic artist point of view") a figure that is physically accurate IS part of the artistic process. even doing the most chaste scene of a nude lounging on a sun bed....its un-nerving to see them "barbie doll'ed".

I tend to agree. When every other anatomical feature, including the wisdom teeth is apparently artistically important or at least inoffensive enough to be included. It seems rather obvious, or at least suspiciously convenient, that this fits in with the age old notion that women’s bodies are evil, threatening dangerous etc. and need to be shrouded for the good of society. Revealing the carnal cavern from whence we are all borne (in painful sorrow, as punishment for woman’s original sin) would lead to the destruction of mankind. That’s always been the view among certain groups and it’s trickled down and been maintained forever. At the extreme end, you get grown men who are proud to spit on 9 year old girls (supposedly for turning them on)., when in a moral society, dude you might want to hide the fact that you’re being turned on by 9 year old girls or like pluck your eye out. Vickie’s just slightly more subtle example of the same thinking– IMO. Of course many males are so eager to worship Amazonian, gunslinging, sword wielding Uberwenchen they may as well be wearing “Vickie Made Me Her Bitch” T-shirts, but bring out the V Weapon and that’s dirty pool.

I think that when adults (or children for that matter) are taught thar certain parts of their bodies are taboo and they see them only in a pornographic context, such repression leads to negative consequences. I don’t think you have to be in favor of mass public nudity to find the neutered Vickies and Facebook bans on breastfeeding bizarre at best. I know it’s a radical thought, but maybe, just maybe with a little less such nonsense, we’d have a few less women chained up in basements.

Quote - “they have created the ability to meld figures to genesis(god right now at 3am I cant remember the correct name for the process)” Geografting or perhaps in this case, Gynografting ÷)

“speaking from an "artistic" point of view(and not an "erotic artist point of view") a figure that is physically accurate IS part of the artistic process. even doing the most chaste scene of a nude lounging on a sun bed....its un-nerving to see them "barbie doll'ed".

I tend to agree. When every other anatomical feature, including the wisdom teeth is apparently artistically important or at least inoffensive enough to be included. It seems rather obvious, or at least suspiciously convenient, that this fits in with the age old notion that women’s bodies are evil, threatening dangerous etc. and need to be shrouded for the good of society. Revealing the carnal cavern from whence we are all borne (in painful sorrow, as punishment for woman’s original sin) would lead to the destruction of mankind. That’s always been the view among certain groups and it’s trickled down and been maintained forever. At the extreme end, you get grown men who are proud to spit on 9 year old girls (supposedly for turning them on)., when in a moral society, dude you might want to hide the fact that you’re being turned on by 9 year old girls or like pluck your eye out. Vickie’s just slightly more subtle example of the same thinking– IMO. Of course many males are so eager to worship Amazonian, gunslinging, sword wielding Uberwenchen they may as well be wearing “Vickie Made Me Her Bitch” T-shirts, but bring out the V Weapon and that’s dirty pool.

I think that when adults (or children for that matter) are taught thar certain parts of their bodies are taboo and they see them only in a pornographic context, such repression leads to negative consequences. I don’t think you have to be in favor of mass public nudity to find the neutered Vickies and Facebook bans on breastfeeding bizarre at best. I know it’s a radical thought, but maybe, just maybe with a little less such nonsense, we’d have a few less women chained up in basements.

well I find it almost funny. Vicki doesnt come with her vagina...but mike comes with his penis. I do not need to have vickis wisdom teeth...But I do need her to actually look like an un-mutilating female.

It is abit of an odd message that you get from it all. THAT and when you get vicki "out of the box" she has to have this purple bathing suite on. Why??

I know its going to be said due to not wishing to offend some. But again, I go to the fact that those normally using these models are adults. Even if you are not using them in an erotic manner, surely it is not that offensive for her to actually be naked(as we all are) before getting clothed?

Though as noted in my previous post...seems this new Poser figure "Roxie" is -detailed-

I look forward to seeing what she has(not in a vulgar way mind you)

OH and yes it was geografting. Thank you^.^

Quote - Kudos on an intelligent response from someone who may have actually gotten Lali' Bits to work. If you saw what happend to my test renders bits or no bits it was horrible. The mesh exploded after the figure was saved and reopened. Looked lke alien belly burster erupted from..

Not sure what I could tell you about that that would be helpful, Shante. :sad:  I have had few issues with it in PP 2012.  The only advice I would give is to set the Sexy Chick Preset in the body to zero as it changes a lot of things...

I'm unsure if new poser does this or not, but I remember older poser versions used to save erc as morphs when a figure with erc was resaved to the library and would cause the problem you are suggesting about the figure exploding when reloaded.

*"THAT and when you get vicki "out of the box" she has to have this purple bathing suite on." *

Forgot about Purple Passion. I've never installed Mike 4, don't know if he has corresponding trunks. IIRC, V3 and the other girls were naked and V4 is no more detailed than they were by default AFAIK. They could have at least made it an attractive paint on job. Maybe someone lost a bet. Or maybe she just got wet in a cheap, suit and it stained her skin. * *

Just curious, has there ever been a Poser female modelled with an actual uterus?

Or morphs that attempt to simulate what happens during childbirth?

Personally, I'm thinking of the medical illustration angle, of course ;)

"Purple passion"... LMAO! Is that the nickname for Vicki 4's default bikini texture?? :-D

Agree with WandW about that Sexy chick preset on Lali... first thing I disabled (just used D3D's Reset values script to put translations/rotations/morphs/parameters at zero values) after that I've loaded all kinds of package and target morphs on lali and haven't had any problems. The character work is saved in a .PZ3 with use external off in prefs, haven't tried saving this custom character back to the library though. So Far the .PZ3 is 112mb and that's just with Lali/V4 in the scene... I'm gonna go ahead and try saving her back to the library and reloading as a test.

"Personally, I'm thinking of the medical illustration angle, of course ;)"

Yes, because internal organs might be a turn on? Chuckle...

Although Lali does damn near have a uterus.

So I went ahead and saved my Lali custom morphed character back to the library, opened a new scene, and loaded the character. No explosions, all (lali's, Daz, community read script, Pmd INJ, and morph target) morphs retained, prop in place. Everything seems OK in Poser 8. Not sure what version shante is using but bwldrd's suggestion might be on to something.

"Purple passion©"... LMAO! Is that the nickname for Vicki 4's default bikini texture?? :-DIt is now. I haven't decided on what royalties to charge. It'll be cheaper than NVIATWAS though.

Z-Woman, has a uterus and fallopian tubes - don't recall about the vagina but certainly no external morphable opening IIRC. The Zygote Female has a vagina. As I said before, you'd have to go 3DScience.com for anything more accurate and I doubt those models are rigged for Poser. The whole reproductive setup may not even be available as part of a full body model - probably little need for illustrative purposes. As for nether orifices, too much fodder for wags about not needing ah*s on both sides of the keyboard.

One problem with the existing solutions is probably the scaling. The MilBaby isn't a neonate, but one based on the same scale I'm guessing probably couldn't get out of the birth canal without an episiotomy that looked like it was performed by Jack the Ripper. C-Sections are probably going to be required, maybe In Vitro as well.

*"A Poser intended model with a urethra is pretty unusual I'd say." *

Score on for the ladies. Her male counterpart looks like he'd be called a girlie man even guarding the sultan's harem. Appears he might be welcome on the cellblock though - hard to tell.  

* *

just heard from erogenesis or lali's founder and it seems it slipped through the testing stages in poser 7. my luck sucks because it appears lali and her bits are not going to work with poser 7. go figure.

shante, just buy a copy of Poser 8... It averages about $40. Then you'll have IDL too which will have a dramatic effect on your renders (have to admit the render times can be a little tedious occasionally, depending on the settings and what kind of effects you're trying to achieve). I only recently switched from Poser 7 to Poser 8, still do a lot of messing around with the standard firefly render... But, IDL is remarkably easy to use and many times doesn't require more than 1 or 2 lights in the scene for really nice results (no more fiddling with IBL and AO). would love to get Poser 10 but I'm using an older PPC PowerMac (which I really like) so until I can Purchase an Intel Mac (or "shudder" a Windows machine) Poser 8 it is...
_OT Confession, I only been using computers for about 8 years, sporadically, and have only ever owned a Mac... it's what I started with when a graphic designer friend of a former girlfriend gave me a G3 (ominously equipped with photoshop and Poser 3). I eventually smashed the bejesus out of it with some steel toe jump boots during an argument. Fast forward 2 years when yet another artist friend gave me a G4 and I got into Poser 6 and 7. That box was destroyed when I relocated from San Francisco to the east coast. Fast forward 2 more years and I got myself the G5 I'm using now. So I guess you could say I'm in a marginalized computing time warp of sorts... and there's the long and short of my transformation from pastoral cave painter to simulacrum in an obsolete spaceship. :)

Shante, go for it and get Poser 9, if you have an Intel Mac; $35 if you use the coupon code the red button reveals....

http://www.purplus.net/poser9.html

wow that's the cheapest price i've seen yet for p9. is it legit new supported software or am i going to get hassles after buying it? the cheapest i've seen has been $95 or so.

im just curious how poser 9 and 10 will utilize memory and render power better on my i7 macbook pro compared to poser 7? will they work nice with older daz figures and props (i get weird noise effects rendering older content for p4 in the new lighting/render engine in p7 for instance with back facing polygons  or making them invisible to some of the p7 more advanced lighting render stuff) is that going to get worse with all these iirc and such in versions 9 and 10?

Quote - shante, just buy a copy of Poser 8... It averages about $40. Then you'll have IDL too which will have a dramatic effect on your renders (have to admit the render times can be a little tedious occasionally, depending on the settings and what kind of effects you're trying to achieve). I only recently switched from Poser 7 to Poser 8, still do a lot of messing around with the standard firefly render... But, IDL is remarkably easy to use and many times doesn't require more than 1 or 2 lights in the scene for really nice results (no more fiddling with IBL and AO). would love to get Poser 10 but I'm using an older PPC PowerMac (which I really like) so until I can Purchase an Intel Mac (or "shudder" a Windows machine) Poser 8 it is...
_OT Confession, I only been using computers for about 8 years, sporadically, and have only ever owned a Mac... it's what I started with when a graphic designer friend of a former girlfriend gave me a G3 (ominously equipped with photoshop and Poser 3). I eventually smashed the bejesus out of it with some steel toe jump boots during an argument. Fast forward 2 years when yet another artist friend gave me a G4 and I got into Poser 6 and 7. That box was destroyed when I relocated from San Francisco to the east coast. Fast forward 2 more years and I got myself the G5 I'm using now. So I guess you could say I'm in a marginalized computing time warp of sorts... and there's the long and short of my transformation from pastoral cave painter to simulacrum in an obsolete spaceship. :)

idl iirc firefly and all that stuff confuses the shakta out of me. just want to set my lights up like i did in the studio in the real world and take the damn picture. i usde to be great at lighting if i had to get hired to light a virtual poser set now i would freaking starve.

Quote - Testing out Lali's fixes and poseability... have to say that even without the "bits", which incidently are totally bother free bits so far, the fixes are really excellent. Also no sign of any kind of conflicts with other morphs mixed with the Lali morphs. Excuse the preview render but she's still not ready for a proper render... Plus I need to add a chimp! (just kidding).

she already has a little monkey doesn't she?  lol

sorry couldn't help it. pain meds just kicked in and am typing today with one hand laying on my side like a lazy roman.

Quote - wow that's the cheapest price i've seen yet for p9. is it legit new supported software or am i going to get hassles after buying it? the cheapest i've seen has been $95 or so.

Yes, they are a legitimate closeout type site.  For comparison, Amazon has Poser 9 for $49.48

http://www.amazon.com/Smith-Micro-Software-Inc-PSR9HDVD/dp/B005LXIJ7M/ref=dp_ob_title_sw

If that's too dear, Amazon also has Poser 8 for $22.95 but I think Poser 9 is certainly worth the extra few $$...

Agree with WandW. Even if you don't use IDL with Poser 9 you can take advantage of SSS if you choose and I'm certain you would like the improvements to poseability that weight mapped figures brings...

Edit_ Caveat Emptor, Poser 8 and above no longer have the P4 renderer.

not concerned about the p4 render engine pwr se but still use some of the p4 figures for filler or background. if i don't use weight mapped figures will the older stuff still work?

will the two versions work efficiently on my macbook pro running os 10.6.8 in 32 or 64 bit?

so damn confusing! and why should i care about any of these.

IDL?  SSS?  iirc?  ibl?  ado?

firefly i guess i already use in the p7 render engine and i know it to be much better than what p4 i used. remember never went throguh allt hose other versions of poser. from p4 to p7 was drasticand i still have no idea what half or more of the p7 stuff is. so going to p9 or p10 gives me the chills. you know, the chills that plague old, brain dead technophobes!

IDL is legitimate global illumination with accurate occlusion effects, things that were faked prior with a lot of tedious adjusting. Highly realistic. SSS emulates how light is absorbed and scattered by various substances, it's possible to create very realistic renders of various materials. Skin, wax, anything that is (semi)translucent. It's not that difficult to get a handle on these things with a some reading and testing, there's also many tutorials and discussions, documentation, scripts and freebies relating to such that makes the implementation of these advances easier. Snarlygribbly's EZSkin (free), Bagginsbill's EnvironmentSphere (free). All of these are pretty much standard operating procedure in Poser now. It's the nature of the beast in this medium to have to digest copious amounts of tech info in order to best serve your vision; Once you have this knowledge at your disposal you'll be able to readily manifest your ideas in a more intuitive way.

_Don't see why most Poser legacy content wouldn't work in current versions of Poser. If it worked in Poser 7, should work in Poser 9. There are exceptions and differences of course depending on what kind of content you're talking about, scripts in particular. Things like props and figures... Totally compatible. Many times you'll just find that more recent developments have made older content obsolete, sub-par or in need of an overhaul.

Quote - IDL is legitimate global illumination with accurate occlusion effects, things that were faked prior with a lot of tedious adjusting. Highly realistic. SSS emulates how light is absorbed and scattered by various substances, it's possible to create very realistic renders of various materials. Skin, wax, anything that is (semi)translucent. It's not that difficult to get a handle on these things with a some reading and testing, there's also many tutorials and discussions, documentation, scripts and freebies relating to such that makes the implementation of these advances easier. Snarlygribbly's EZSkin (free), Bagginsbill's EnvironmentSphere (free). All of these are pretty much standard operating procedure in Poser now. It's the nature of the beast in this medium to have to digest copious amounts of tech info in order to best serve your vision; Once you have this knowledge at your disposal you'll be able to readily manifest your ideas in a more intuitive way.

I understand about the need to absorb the tech to feed better the intuitive, (which when you consider it is actually a counter-intuitive formula). The problem is the difficulty I have absorbing.....everything of late. All the poop I have been through the last three years (3 family deaths, loss of work in my field and no hope in sight of getting back on track, increasingly weaker back and body as a result of it, encroaching age and all it brings to the table, no health insurance, depression.....and....blah..blah...blah.....

Poser is in place to help sooth me but the drugs I need to take along with all that has transpired of late, make absorption more and more difficult. I used to be able to read    1 to 2 books a week. I have 3 books started and have had them so for the past 6 months and can't seem to complete them due to lack of concentration and remembering who is whom and doing what where, etc.

If it isn't simply simple I flounder. I bought the Perfect V4 series of injections from Meipe and had so much difficulty figuring it all out I begged him/her to help and they sent me a complete .Cr2 to add the injections to to avoid having to go to python scripting and/or all the other prep work needed to get to the injection point.

Nothing is easy for me anymore friend so now maybe you can understand my concern to jump into the next Poser iteration and all I will need to learn to use it. Cloth room, Hair room, using and creating magnets, etc. all black magic  after reading and studying and asking for help, since the beginning of my work in Poser (V.4 to be exact), I still don't get it.   :(

Quote - _Don't see why most Poser legacy content wouldn't work in current versions of Poser. If it worked in Poser 7, should work in Poser 9. There are exceptions and differences of course depending on what kind of content you're talking about, scripts in particular. Things like props and figures... Totally compatible. Many times you'll just find that more recent developments have made older content obsolete, sub-par or in need of an overhaul.

Missed this.

Example is the problem with back facing polygons rendering with strange surface anomolies or other content. Hair for instance that rendered in P4 with its simple engine has to have back facing polygons turned off or made invisible to the P7 Firefly render engine to minimize or eliminate the noise it gets. Sometimes even those measures don't work. Surface spots and strange hash marks on buildings and props are a pain. It gets wore when you need to go back to a .pz3 created in P4 to upgrade the render quality in FireFly and have these strange anomolies in the render in P7. The migration to a better render engine and all the lighting stuff that goes with it is worth it if.....IF...these anomolise can be dealt with. My concern is will I be geting the same problem in newer versions of Poser? I know, you have no way of knowing but that is my concern. I guess I just need to jump in.

What about the rendering strenght of these newer versions? Will I have any problems using them on my Macbook Pro? Are they 32 or 64 bit adddress and is there any reason why I should bother being concerned?

Poser 4 sucked with solid RM use. It was a pig . Poser 7 hasn't been much sweeter. Poser 7 now crashes on me if i try to test render at half resolution (1500 x 1500 @300dpi) more than once without closing Poser and relaunching (I use complex scenes, fully propped and lit at 3000 x 3000 at 300 dpi). It's a real pain in the heinie! Apparently P7 doesn't address all the RAM I have in system (8Gigs). Will that RAM be addressed more effectively using newer versions of Poser (9 or 10)?

Just do what makes you happy man, this shit is supposed to be fun or an escape or a conduit to self expression if that's what you want. I can imagine not being attached to the internet and not having anything other than Poser 5 and gimp and still managing to have so many projects that they would all never get finished. Don't worry so much about the external this and that with this, or the latest and greatest. Just my opinion but it's something I think about a lot also, let's face it CG is artistically confusing. Particularly if you've been used to working strictly from traditional media. The undo button and pre-made content can often times be a real detriment to just getting on with it and making do. I would think the make art button would be a cinch... But it's a challenge coming to terms with the peculiarities of the thing when I've spent my artistic life working without it. Perhaps a pompous or unintentionally egotistical statement but I think that non-artists actually have an easier time with Poser and expressing themselves with it....

...All of these thoughts perhaps require greater clarification and tempering but right now my consciousness is fleeing.

Goodnight.

...mmm, crosspost. Tech questions? ugh, not up to it right now. Need to get some sleep... If WandW doesn't pop in to answer your questions I'll reply sometime tomorrow night. :)

Quote - Missed this. Example is the problem with back facing polygons rendering with strange surface anomolies or other content. Hair for instance that rendered in P4 with its simple engine has to have back facing polygons turned off or made invisible to the P7 Firefly render engine to minimize or eliminate the noise it gets. Sometimes even those measures don't work. Surface spots and strange hash marks on buildings and props are a pain. It gets wore when you need to go back to a .pz3 created in P4 to upgrade the render quality in FireFly and have these strange anomolies in the render in P7. The migration to a better render engine and all the lighting stuff that goes with it is worth it if.....IF...these anomolise can be dealt with. My concern is will I be geting the same problem in newer versions of Poser? I know, you have no way of knowing but that is my concern. I guess I just need to jump in.

My guess is these artifacts may be due to using depth mapped shadows.  Poser 8 and above render raytraced shadows much faster than Poser 7.

It will be a long while before Poser 10 is $35, so go for it, Baby... :)

Quote - > Quote - IDL is legitimate global illumination with accurate occlusion effects, things that were faked prior with a lot of tedious adjusting. Highly realistic. SSS emulates how light is absorbed and scattered by various substances, it's possible to create very realistic renders of various materials. Skin, wax, anything that is (semi)translucent. It's not that difficult to get a handle on these things with a some reading and testing, there's also many tutorials and discussions, documentation, scripts and freebies relating to such that makes the implementation of these advances easier. Snarlygribbly's EZSkin (free), Bagginsbill's EnvironmentSphere (free). All of these are pretty much standard operating procedure in Poser now. It's the nature of the beast in this medium to have to digest copious amounts of tech info in order to best serve your vision; Once you have this knowledge at your disposal you'll be able to readily manifest your ideas in a more intuitive way.

I understand about the need to absorb the tech to feed better the intuitive, (which when you consider it is actually a counter-intuitive formula). The problem is the difficulty I have absorbing.....everything of late. All the poop I have been through the last three years (3 family deaths, loss of work in my field and no hope in sight of getting back on track, increasingly weaker back and body as a result of it, encroaching age and all it brings to the table, no health insurance, depression.....and....blah..blah...blah.....

Poser is in place to help sooth me but the drugs I need to take along with all that has transpired of late, make absorption more and more difficult. I used to be able to read    1 to 2 books a week. I have 3 books started and have had them so for the past 6 months and can't seem to complete them due to lack of concentration and remembering who is whom and doing what where, etc.

If it isn't simply simple I flounder. I bought the Perfect V4 series of injections from Meipe and had so much difficulty figuring it all out I begged him/her to help and they sent me a complete .Cr2 to add the injections to to avoid having to go to python scripting and/or all the other prep work needed to get to the injection point.

Nothing is easy for me anymore friend so now maybe you can understand my concern to jump into the next Poser iteration and all I will need to learn to use it. Cloth room, Hair room, using and creating magnets, etc. all black magic  after reading and studying and asking for help, since the beginning of my work in Poser (V.4 to be exact), I still don't get it.   :(

I am the least techy minded person, trust me. But poser makes the use of IDL etc very user friendly.

its as easy as ticking the "indirect lighting" box.

really its that easy.

Also the ability to ramp up an ambient setting on an object and it becomes a light.  its fantastic.

easy as going into the shader tree and selecting the item, ramping up the ambient setting and POOF. Light.

you can render a scene with no lights using that method.

It is so easy and so well worth the purchase. I have never regreted my upgrade to 2012(other then right after 2014 came out:P )

It does make rendering allllllot easier.

Also LauieA has some amazing materials that use the SSS. I have used one of them for grapes and they came out lovely, with that soft almost inner glow of yellow to them.

with the ezskin python is even easier to get SSS.

it is allot easier to use then the older versions IMHO

Thanks guys you have been great and VEEEEEERY patient.

I'll go buy P9. What is the difference between P9 and 2012 anyway....mostly animation stuff as someone else told me....or more?

DarkEleganc:  Nice slick Pinup work BTW.

Quote - What is the difference between P9 and 2012 anyway....mostly animation stuff as someone else told me....or more?

Mostly weight mapped rigging tools, 64-bit renderer and gamma correction.  Here's a feature comparison...  http://poser.smithmicro.com/comparison.html

Quote - Thanks guys you have been great and VEEEEEERY patient.

I'll go buy P9. What is the difference between P9 and 2012 anyway....mostly animation stuff as someone else told me....or more?

DarkEleganc:  Nice slick Pinup work BTW.

thank you that is very kind of you >.<

though that is my behaving portolio I also have a DA account that is nothing but erotic works. and I have my renderotica account too