I second the question about bones for the toe joints.

Do the jaws and tongue have their own bones?

Are there bones for the breasts?

Will there be bones for the ears, too? How about the nose, cheeks or brows? Seriously, I'm all for more bones. LOL.

And, by default, can she have slightly long nails? A girl can't have long lashes without long nails! LOL.

Quote - Rigged toes! So there is a single toe group to bend them all at once then a bone for each toe

Toes!  Not fingers!  :laugh: 

Dana

What is your marketing budget? Where do you plan to advertise? When will you have a website?

They said they'd rather not talk about the store too much here, out of respect for Rosity. This is the Freestuff forum, after all.

However, they have a website already at HiveWire3D.com.  KenG said his birds would be for sale there July 1, so I'm guessing that's when they're aiming to open for business.

As for the ears...I think they'll be okay.  Judging from the polycount, Dawn is meant for SubD. 

I only have Poser Pro 2012 which doesn't natively do subd...except for the ace in the hole - Snarly's Subdividing Script. Whooohoooo! Heh ;)

Laurie

Quote - I only have Poser Pro 2012 which doesn't natively do subd...except for the ace in the hole - Snarly's Subdividing Script. Whooohoooo! Heh ;)

Or turn smooth polygons on.  :-)

Well, Snarly's script is real subdivision...and you can turn it on and off just like you can in PP2014 ;).

Laurie

Well, I guess if I want Dawn rigged in modo, I'll have to do it myself.  I think I can live with having that exclusive to myself.

It is good seeing the community actually making a concerted effort in attempting to heal the stagnating rift that started years ago, and that so many denied for so long.  I won't call this grass roots, because it's not.  Most of the key people have been around for over a decade, many who started in the 90's.  Many are the innovators, the creative, the visionaries, those who built the key elements that evolved into today's SOP.  It's good to see that the community still means something that is worth saving, despite the way that some tried to bend it to their will.

I wish Dawn much success.  May she sweep away some of the bad blood, and bring a little humility where it is needed most.  I hope the enthusiasm continues to rally and the support grows.  It's a need we all feel, because this is something we built over the years, and we don't want to see it yanked out from under us by those who feel they know better than the voice of experience.

As for me, I've lost the desire to make stuff for Poser.  (And it's no secret that I never had the desire to make stuff for DS.)  modo has my full attention now, true love.  And life is anything but stable for me right now, following a really bad year.  So I probably won't be contributing.  I won't say never, because I might make some dynamic clothing or props in modo and save as OBJ for Poser freebies.  You never know.  It's happened before.  Time will tell.

But I do appreciate seeing people I've known for quite some years come together over a solution to a problem at many levels.  I wish Dawn the best of luck, and to those who are supporting her.  It's good to see the right path being followed for a change, and I know I'm not the only one feeling it.

And I'm ready to rig Dawn in modo 7 when she comes out.

Okay, well I've made a basic skull cap that I'll need to fit to her precisely when she's available, and making some really nice hair for her :D :D :D 

And a couple SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUPER cool things to make her "sparkle" hee hee. 

Another question, will Dawn have any normal maps? And specular maps? SSS maps?  For DS as well as Poser? 

I have coconut pecan cookies by my side and a tall glass of milk to get me thru the next several hours.

Grateful to Paul (etujedi) for posting Dawn images. I know we still need to get out more, but soon we'll have the actual mesh available.

Oops, I said the s**n word didn't I? Would "very shortly" work? I wish I could say by Thursday at 2pm we will have Dawn for all, but I just don't know that yet, several variables involved here.

Wanting to post a couple more images since Paul has already shown you a few that are more refined that what I'm goin to post here now. The images I'm going to post are from screen grabs in Modo while morph work was being done. These are not refined but should prove helpful to answer questions about having enough mesh for fairie ears, and a question yesterday about a furrowed brow or frontalis muscle contracting on forehead to show skin folds. Then to answer another question about longer nail morph options.

Again, just screen grabs in Modo. So please don't judge the ugly colors and such.

WOW looks great Chris I love what your doing with her 

lol if we send you more coconut pecan cookies can we get her sooner lol

love it :) makes for more realistic facial emotions

Some further answers.

Dawn's tongue has bones that are separate from the mandible bone. I think some one asked about that one. Don't remember how many bones are in tongue. Paul can say. But it works great.

Her tongue also has geometry to support a forked tongue shape that I've created.

No brow bones. No breast bones.

She does have additional bones in chest and abdomen though for much better and human like bends. Don't recall if that has already been mentioned.

I'll add my excitement that Steve has said about the potential efforts by Phil C.

Some other things in the works, but we need others to chime in on those plans still. Don't want to expose those myself.

Love that someone is working on making a skull cap and planning on converting hair to Dawn. So, so looking forward to that.

Back to work, after one more image to post.

So much fun to create. I used this for our Zombie morph "Dawn of the Dead".

Oh great I love these details :)

Er, I've made a skull cap but I'm not the one doing the hair conversions... I'm making new hair ^^;

As well as some other shiny things. :)

Quote - Oh great I love these details :)

 

Er, I've made a skull cap but I'm not the one doing the hair conversions... I'm making new hair ^^;

 

As well as some other shiny things. :)

I'm presuming that you are doing presets for LAMH.

 I hope they get the update sorted for the Player, at the moment it has some bugs that make it crash on alot of machines.

Fantastic work Chris. But just to clean up some facts.

I found out that I was to hasty with V6 and the fitting room. - After fiddling a little more with it I found out that it actually works with V6. You have to export it as Cr2 from Daz. (a one time operation). Then before you go into the fitting room dial up the V6 morph to 1 and then check for "Keep Deformations in the create session dialog.

So there are no difference between Dawn and V6 when it comes to fitting in with old cloth, the products have to compete by quality alone. Dawn may be better but V6 is part of an advanced ecosystem.

We live in interesting times.

Quote - YAY a body render!

I like her torso, really do.

Might be an illusion, but her arms look kinda dettached at the shoulders? A bit too broad? I'm not sure.

I'm not sure if it's the pose and the angle either, but the armpits look a bit too high.

I say this as someone who badly wants this figure to work, because I really want something natural-looking to use with Poser dynamic cloth.

Quote - Both the WW and the Auto-Fit are not usable tools for adapting content on a vast scale and with the precision that is needed. Poser 10 Fitting Room is the new standard for this job and what I believe will be used for the conversion of clothing not just for Dawn for all future models.

I have written a detailed article about it, you can read it here. 

I would respectfully disagree I have been using autofit to convert many gen 3 & 4 items and have gotten reasonable results for most items without spending huge amounts of time per item. Many people do not take the time to investigate the settings available to them. Simply changing to generic smoothing can have a beneficial impact on many converted items.

Autofit has improved since it was first introduced and I would be more than happy if we are provided with either a genesis clone  and a V4 clone. My only concern is whether they would be allowed to provide them.

Quote - > Quote - Oh great I love these details :)

 

Er, I've made a skull cap but I'm not the one doing the hair conversions... I'm making new hair ^^;

 

As well as some other shiny things. :)

 

I'm presuming that you are doing presets for LAMH.

 I hope they get the update sorted for the Player, at the moment it has some bugs that make it crash on alot of machines.

yes tparo, lots and lots of presets I hope! 

They are working ENDLESSLESS ( I swear they never sleep!!!) on the player AND an updated full version and I promise they will be amazing. :D They have never failed to amaze me time and time again :D

Daz 4.6 reallly threw me for a loop though... it didn't work for about 2 weeks and I went through sooooooooo many installs and reinstalls and in the end I dont know why but it started working finally T_T but 4.6 for me still lacks the stability that others have claimed it has.... for me, 4.6 doesn't work well with the new SSS shaders, if i try to use them my scene will often crash and not able to reload it from a save either :(

But that doesn't stop me (ok it stopped me for 2 whole weeks... sob sob) from making LAMH presets for as many things as I can :D

Quote - > Quote - Both the WW and the Auto-Fit are not usable tools for adapting content on a vast scale and with the precision that is needed. Poser 10 Fitting Room is the new standard for this job and what I believe will be used for the conversion of clothing not just for Dawn for all future models.

I have written a detailed article about it, you can read it here. 

 

I would respectfully disagree I have been using autofit to convert many gen 3 & 4 items and have gotten reasonable results for most items without spending huge amounts of time per item. Many people do not take the time to investigate the settings available to them. Simply changing to generic smoothing can have a beneficial impact on many converted items.

Autofit has improved since it was first introduced and I would be more than happy if we are provided with either a genesis clone  and a V4 clone. My only concern is whether they would be allowed to provide them.

I agree with pendraia, and I still don't see how the Poser cloth room helps DS users, please remember that this figure is for both DS and Poser.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Both the WW and the Auto-Fit are not usable tools for adapting content on a vast scale and with the precision that is needed. Poser 10 Fitting Room is the new standard for this job and what I believe will be used for the conversion of clothing not just for Dawn for all future models.

I have written a detailed article about it, you can read it here. 

 

I would respectfully disagree I have been using autofit to convert many gen 3 & 4 items and have gotten reasonable results for most items without spending huge amounts of time per item. Many people do not take the time to investigate the settings available to them. Simply changing to generic smoothing can have a beneficial impact on many converted items.

Autofit has improved since it was first introduced and I would be more than happy if we are provided with either a genesis clone  and a V4 clone. My only concern is whether they would be allowed to provide them.

 

I agree with pendraia, and I still don't see how the Poser cloth room helps DS users, please remember that this figure is for both DS and Poser.

I can see a use for the cloth room...if someone made a dynamic item and draped it in the cloth room and then exported it as an object it could easily be rigged using the transfer utility. It would probably need to have some movement morphs created to ensure useability. I imagine that the ability to auto generate morphs would work with Dawn. Some may need adjusting that would depend on how well the mesh is designed. Blondie's advanced rigging tutorial shows that with a well designed mesh the auto generated morphs will work with all but the really extreme shapes.

As for Dawn: please, is it a file compression issue or is it a bending issue? (See the red circle on her upper body)

Hi all, back with the Dawn Update Info, as usual anything new that has come out is in orange. I have started adding page numbers for certain things, such as renders etc.

What we know:-

Poser version - Poser 9+

Studio version - Studio 4.5+

Dawn is weight mapped in Poser and Studio.

Dawn isn't based on a real person.

A release candidate is beein worked on, no release date at the moment for public use.

Dawn will be free at her launch for a period of time, that time has not been specified.

Add on's will be available on release day, these will be paid for items.

Pixie ears confirmed for Dawn.

Dawn started off in Modo.

Basic info on rigging Dawn content in Poser and Studio.

Dawn is a stand alone figure in both systems, No DSON importer.

Mimic option coming, won't be available at launch.

Dawn of the Dead zombie morph shown.

Netherworks has some tools, but no info as yet.

There will be morph capabilities for Dawn in Poser & Studio.

Installers will be zip files.

Basic mesh suit as a resource kit.

Dev Rigs for Dawn including one for P910PP12 users.

No gential add ons via HiveWire3D. Same with genital detail on textures.

Import into Vue is being looked into.

Dawn Info:-

• Dawn Base figure

• Complete Skin Maps

• Hairstyle

• 10 basic poses

• String bikini

• Skin Map / Texture Resource Kit

• Clothing Developer Resource Kit

• Developer Rig

• Original UV's

No Reduced Resolution at the the moment, but it is on the list for the future.

Dawn Polygon Count:-

Total Vertices:39096
Total Triangles:1702
Total Quads:37624
Total Faces:39326

Dawn Material Zones:-

Cornea
Eyes
Iris
Lacrimal
Pupil
Gums
InnerMouth
Teeth
Tongue
Face
Lips
Arms
Legs
Body
Eyelashes
Eyelashes_Large
Fingernails
Toenails

UV files in 8 template files.

Kids and Teen, HiveWire3D want to, but cannot confirm details or a start date as yet.

Ethnic and creature morphs coming in the future.

Female and future Male will share same mesh but have seperate and specific rigging.

A bodysuit has been made, but no other info given yet.

Nice new pic of Dawn has appeared on FB page.

HiveWire3D will not be selling any products of an adult nature on their site.

Sarsa checking that we can use the Merchent Resource skin for freebies.

Dawn has some nice long eyelashes.

HiveWire Chris has made some more clothing items, but no other info given as yet.

Netherworks confirms working on Hair Conversion System for Dawn.

Ponytail hair comes with Dawn.

Phil C following the Dawn thread.

Evilinnocence suppurt for Dawn

Adding more material zones

Changing the bottom of the foot and making that a new morph and making a new default base for bottom of foot.

Doing some tweaks on materials.

More R and D on Poser scaling.

Poser forced limits.

Poser IK work.

UV work on clothing Resource Kit.

Adding a Lash morph to close up the gap from top to bottom lash on outside of eye.

Slight Skin map adjustments.

Making non SSS textures for Studio.

Dawn s about one inch shorter than V5.

Dawn's rig has no JCM's on her at all.

Plenty of geometry for breast sizes and shapes.

Facial and expression morphs for the Dawn Base.

Various breast sizes for the Dawn Base pack..

Nipple maps to be on body texture maps sold on the HiveWire3D site.

Reality support.

Body render and Topology pics shown (page 38).

Seperate bending toes.

Brow furrowing and long nails option shown (page 39).

Dawn's tongue has bones that are separate from the mandible bone.

Her tongue also has geometry to support a forked tongue shape that has been created.

No brow bones. No breast bones.

She does have additional bones in chest and abdomen though for much better and human like bends.

Emaciated morph shown (page 39).

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

As it has been mentioned, please, please, don't ask about the HiveWire3D website features, advertising etc.

Renderosity have been kind enough to allow this thread for us and we need to abide by their rules.

Once their site has appeared, then you will be able to ask those type of things over there.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

I was asking about Dawn and that kink in her upper body ... not the website.

I think we should however acknowledge Rendo's support for hosting this thread and being reasonable about the information requests that have been made.  The site will be is after all in direct competion but know doubt they will al;so benefit from sales from Dawn items in the future.  Nice to see an aduilt attitude rather than a deletion.

I know I will keep buying from Rendo whatever as I like the way they do business.

Renderosity has always allowed important news that concern many in the threads regardless if there is a competitor involved or not. This rule is in place mainly to stop the ordinary content provider to bug down the thread with announcement of products.

Its all about common sense and sense of proportions.

Apparently Dawn doesn't have a brow geometry plane so her brows are in the texture Booo Hiss

Quote - As for Dawn: please, is it a file compression issue or is it a bending issue? (See the red circle on her upper body)

I was wondering about that myself.

Also, the transmaps on her hair aren't right.  If it's a Poser render, see this thread on how to fix that "ghost hair" look. 

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2837348&page=1

I do like her overall proportions. 

Quote - So there are no difference between Dawn and V6 when it comes to fitting in with old cloth, the products have to compete by quality alone. Dawn may be better but V6 is part of an advanced ecosystem. We live in interesting times.

Indeed, but one has to roll your own cr2 version of v5 or v6, which seems to be an insurmountable barrier for some. I expect Dawn will likely prod DAZ to offer a cr2 version...

Hi Kerya, my previous posting was not meant at you, but to everyone.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

I like the string bikini, the main reason.....

It looks like something a woman wuth that type of figure would wear, and it's not too revealing.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Sorry to be more realistic.

Why, oh why, are the breasts "again" too high up the chest.................. 

Lower the arms and the breasts are on the shoulder blades.

Some things will never change.

When will someone finally understand that breasts have to be modeled in their natural GRAVITY / DOWN position.

99% of all renders are with the ARMS DOWN.

Breasts are at least 3" to high on the chest, again.

Do you all walk around in a "T" pose? With breasts lifted?

Now this is what I call good news. I had wondered where you went Steve, after receiving the news you had left Daz. There are a growing number of Vendors/PA's that are getting tired of being horsed around, put off or plain ignored on the Daz forums by the company itself when they criticize the lack of support given in regards to product compatibility between older figures and the new ones.

If not for one of these PA's, Genesis2female gags would have been solely capable of wearing the original genesis wardrobe, thus he created the V4 support for it with his product. It's not a perfect solution of course, but at least it shows his determination to give the community what it wants. I sincerely hope he'll be part of your team, Steve.

If I can arrange support for your new figure in any way (I am an admin at Artraiders.com and work closely with several other vendors as a beta-tester), please let me know.

Regards,

John / Scatha.

Quote - I think it depends on the clothes whether Crossdresser / Wardrobe Wizard / Fitting Room / Autofit is the best tool to convert something.

 

As for Dawn: please, is it a file compression issue or is it a bending issue? (See the red circle on her upper body)

Hopefully, the ppl that will be giving her the once-over at the end will catch this type of thing, if indeed it is an issue :). Alot of us know just how to break a figure and I'm sure a lot are gonna try. LOL

Laurie

Even with a bra they are too high.
STANDARD = With arms in a loosely down position. As when standing normally or walking around.
The nipple hight is in the center between collar bend and elbow bend. Right in the middle of the biceps when you bend your forearm.
Go out, look around.
it is OK to model in a "T" pose. But you can NOT model breasts in a "T" pose, because they will always end up too high on the chest.

No doubt there will be breast morphs to adjust them.

Until Dawn appears, and the first people to get her will be beta testers, who will be under NDA's we won't know.

No info has come out yet as to what morphs will come with the base body.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

That is what everybody thinks. The reality is that it does not work that way.

When you need a morph to lower the breasts, the texture above the breasts stretches, and it shrinks below the breasts.

You either end up with correct texture but breasts to high.
Or?
Breasts in a correct postions but texture deformations. Streching above, and shrinking below the breasts.

No ; Breasts can not be build from a "T" pose.
Breasts HAVE to be build in a relaxed, standing, arms lowered pose.

And then textured this way to avoid texture problems.

And THEN you can morph them slightly UP for "IN CLOTHING" poses, where they will be covered by the clothing anyway, and texture deformations will not be visible any more.
(hidden by the clothing remember?)

Vilters has a point.

Making the correct (realistic) shape the default is always better than trying to fix things afterwards.

Quote - Also, the transmaps on her hair aren't right.  If it's a Poser render, see this thread on how to fix that "ghost hair" look.

It might be a DS render. Then again, it might be a Poser render and he forgot to change the gamma of the transmap to 1.00 (assuming he was using PP12 or PP14/P10) ;).

Laurie

All artistic activity involve some sort if choice of compromises. Better left to one (1) person.

The opposite could be called "art by a committee".

How cool she has shoulder blades and a spine! Now a few rib bones.... ear looks good thank you! As does her Bum! great expresions too!

First time I have seen a convincing smile on a Poser figure..

Quote - Sorry to be more realistic.

Why, oh why, are the breasts "again" too high up the chest.................. 

Lower the arms and the breasts are on the shoulder blades.

Some things will never change.

When will someone finally understand that breasts have to be modeled in their natural GRAVITY / DOWN position.

99% of all renders are with the ARMS DOWN.

Breasts are at least 3" to high on the chest, again.

Do you all walk around in a "T" pose? With breasts lifted?

I'm not sure what source you're getting that 3 inches from.... my breasts do NOT lift 3 inches when I lift my arms to a T pose! The outer part of the breast lifts a bit, breasts may spread sideways a bit, but lifting 3 inches??? NO way. Not even an INCH of lift. half an inch. at most.

Quote - Sorry to be more realistic.

Why, oh why, are the breasts "again" too high up the chest.................. 

Lower the arms and the breasts are on the shoulder blades.

Some things will never change.

When will someone finally understand that breasts have to be modeled in their natural GRAVITY / DOWN position.

99% of all renders are with the ARMS DOWN.

Breasts are at least 3" to high on the chest, again.

Do you all walk around in a "T" pose? With breasts lifted?

the breast are fine, not all womens breast are low and sag

so realistic depends on both perspectives and age so please look at both sides.

I am not only talking about "lift".

I am talking about ; where are they on the chest in their "neutral" position.
And neutral position for breasts IS with arms down.