Quote - So, like a merchant resource dress rigs with body handles?

We'd have to check and make sure it doesnt violate any Dawn eula conditions.

Would you want the mesh to be a resource too?

I'm still very interested in this idea, and in the clothing basics - pants, short and long sleeved shirts with a couple of collar types, skirts in a couple of lengths, and drapy sleeves. If I could get a good resource that I could use to rig items, I might try modeling again. Or at least I might try rigging stuff from Marvelous Designer, which works more the way I think. ;)

Quote - I was working on buffing her up a bit...I call this "Golden Dawn"

 

Hehe...that's cool ;)

Laurie

By the way, about tutorials:

Can they be made keeping the absolute beginner at that program in mind?

I mean, I understand how figures work, how content works. I don't mean the absolute beginner at content-based 3d character creation apps - I mean someone who's proficient in Poser but knows absolutely nothing of DS or vice-versa.

If tutorials for conversion are made in a way that I don't need to look somewhere else to understand how to even reach a command in DS, but won't stall by giving me information on something I don't need to know to just make my products DS-ready, I might even give it a shot (I can get someone else to make some DS promos for me xD). And that said by the person who pledged to never try to install DS in her computer again (look, Hivewire, see what you're doing to me? LOL)

Quote - By the way, about tutorials:

Can they be made keeping the absolute beginner at that program in mind?

I mean, I understand how figures work, how content works. I don't mean the absolute beginner at content-based 3d character creation apps - I mean someone who's proficient in Poser but knows absolutely nothing of DS or vice-versa.

If tutorials for conversion are made in a way that I don't need to look somewhere else to understand how to even reach a command in DS, but won't stall by giving me information on something I don't need to know to just make my products DS-ready, I might even give it a shot (I can get someone else to make some DS promos for me xD). And that said by the person who pledged to never try to install DS in her computer again (look, Hivewire, see what you're doing to me? LOL)

Hehe...that sounds familiar ;).

Laurie

A good tutorial writer always assumes that the user knows nothing at the start of a tutorial.

I've always done that for years now.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Adding my voice as DAZ user that IMHO Autofit support is desperately needed in some form (be it via Genesis or V4 shapes). If there isn't any Autofit support, then there is only a very marginal chance I would use the figure.

It may be a cliche that everything is easy once know it but that is with a difference.

In Poser (old-style), even if you have a master teacher like PhilC it still is difficult and takes a long time to learn.

In Daz the information can be a little hard to find, but once you find it it is easy to understand and you are in business from day one.

Of course, we don't know how it will be in Poser in the future.

But as long as there is two different forums for Daz and Poser we never will get anywhere. The people who know Daz will not help if they are afraid of being attacked for being in the wrong forum.

I don't see any reason for a person to think they would be attacked for helping others.

In this thread both sides have come up with interesting thigs to thik about, questions and answers to those questions.

I always have one simple rule, if information is needed and I can give it, then I will.

There will be quitea few things I need to learn if I want to have my items working in both Poser and Studio, and I would be more than happy for any help.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Info about Dawn and Reality 3:-

I’m pleased to announce that Prêt-à-3D is working with HiveWire3D on bringing you the best support for their new figure named Dawn.

Dawn is one of the most intriguing and exciting developments in this market, probably the most significant new development since the introduction of the original Victoria 4.

Reality will have excellent support for Dawn the day the figure will be released. Support for her material zones has been added to Reality 3 for Poser and I’m working on ACSEL shaders for Reality 2. The goal is to have excellent rendes of Dawn straight out of the box for all Reality users. reality 3 users will receive a free update and Reality 2 users will just have to install the ACSEL shaders from our free ACSEL Share service. It can’t get more convenient that this.

If you are not familiar with Dawn you can find more information at the HiveWire3D Facebook page.

We are very excited to read that Dawn will be released as a native figure for both Poser and Studio, which will bring the best in terms of integration and speed for users of either software. This is very much in line with Prêt-à-3D’s philosophy. We provide software integrated for both Poser and Studio, Mac OS and Windows, so that 3D artists all around the world are free to chose what tool fits best their workflow.

Reality and Dawn will be a great team to inspire 3D artists realize their vision.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Hi, I saw that post on facebook.

I have reality but it is WAY too complicated for me.  I've been using Luxus because its much more ease-oriented. 

Will the settings work for Luxus users as well? 

That would be fantastic. ...  for that alone I'd want Dawn. Of course I already want her but just saying! :)

so got a couple things marginally finished for Dawn but just need Dawn to fit and rig! I bet when Dawn is released many of us will have 'mostly done' things to just finish up and get out there for everyone :D

And Rawart that image just screams hero to me :D

Always make new content for V4/M4 first, even if you don't plan to release a V4/M4 version. V4 is the lowest common denominator and all conversion utilities works with it.

To rig in Daz Studio

In Daz do not use auto-fit and do not make a version for Genesis-Base made to stretch to fit other figures.(The recommended procedure from Daz). It will look like plastic. Instead, resize your V4 model in a modeling program to fit your target figure.

Then to rig this new obj, use the Transfer Utility with two special settings,

Item Shape: Current

Reverse Source Shape From Target: Check

That is all there is to it. I promise you that you can hunt for months without finding this information. And, this will work for Dawn from day one you can be sure of it.

Nice info, I'm all for easy!!! Lol.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Daz in a nutshell: Seven months to hunt for information and one minute to learn.

Quote - I was working on buffing her up a bit...I call this "Golden Dawn"

 

I like :)

I'm not sure I understand why you would build it to fit v4 and then shape it from there to fit your target figure.  Why not build it to fit your target figure from the start? Am I missing something?

Quote -  

Always make new content for V4/M4 first, even if you don't plan to release a V4/M4 version. V4 is the lowest common denominator and all conversion utilities works with it.

To rig in Daz Studio

In Daz do not use auto-fit and do not make a version for Genesis-Base made to stretch to fit other figures.(The recommended procedure from Daz). It will look like plastic. Instead, resize your V4 model in a modeling program to fit your target figure.

Then to rig this new obj, use the Transfer Utility with two special settings,

Item Shape: Current

Reverse Source Shape From Target: Check

That is all there is to it. I promise you that you can hunt for months without finding this information. And, this will work for Dawn from day one you can be sure of it.

 

Quote - It may be a cliche that everything is easy once know it but that is with a difference.

In Poser (old-style), even if you have a master teacher like PhilC it still is difficult and takes a long time to learn.

I could model for over a year before I ever touched rigging in Poser, I was intimidated by everyone saying how hard it was , but honestly, it is a hell of a lot simpler than most make it out to be.  JCMs were my stumbling block, but even those were over come with one good tutorial. 

Are there a few basic things to remember sure.  The setup room is not a one button solution, but propogating the rumour that it is 'hard' doesn't help the community as a whole either.

Mind you I could never get rigging in DS to work right on my old machine and gave it up as a bad job, mind you that was in DS 3 with the content creation tools.  Might try again now on the new laptop now so I can make content for Dawn for both platforms. 

Back to Dawn, modeling like a crazy woman here so I have a few things ready to go as soon she is released. 

So far have a retro inspired dress and jacket almost ready to go...

A cute three piece lingerie set of the not too skimpy nature might be more if I get time

Looking into something gothy and asian/fantasy inspired next as well.  Or maybe steampunk... Steampunk could be fun...

I do hope she has some good morphs for making her curvy or fit into the classic vintage pin up style since I like curves.... 

meatSIm, "Why not build it to fit your target figure from the start? Am I missing something?"

Because if you have a V4 version you can cut some corners when you are making versions for other figures. But by all means, if you intend to make only one version you don't need to. But why should a content creator make only one version when it is so incredible easy to fit more?

?

I look forward to your tutorial then vintorix.

Laurie

Well, for a start, let us see what response I get from this first little advice.

Well, with the working for V4 first thing, I have a set of base meshes set up for her, dresses, bodysuits etc.

Then It's just a case of moving polys about to make them fit other characters. Sometimes easy..... Sometimes a pain!!! LOL.

I also have a extreme lores bodysuit that I can adapt to most figures. Once that's done, it's a case of a few sub divides and moving a few polys to get a perfect fit.

Now with PP2014 I can cheat even more!!!!!

Load the obj into PP2014, do a cloth simulation to get a nice flow, then I use the morphing brush on Loosen to stop that vacumn stuck to the breasts option. Then a bit of a smooth for a more nicer, natural look.

Give me utilities to make my life easier and I'm a really happy bunny!!!! Lol.

Now.... Where's Netherworks with an update on those nice fancy tools!!!!! Lol.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

The one thing about tutorials is to make sure there are plenty of screenshots to show the user what they should be seeing.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Another thing about tutorials is.........

Don't waffle on about things that are not required. Go straight into the tutorial, get people working on things.

Also, don't go for massive sized tutorials, like 50+ pages.

Small steps, leads to confidence, leads to wanting to learn more.

Even when I have written an entire computer course, each chapter of that course is never longer than 15 pages. That's the average amount of pages I have found that a user can take in at a time. After that, they start getting tired and restless and start making mistakes.

I would sooner have more parts to a tutorial and know a user can follow it, than put out a massive one and have users getting lost and anot continuing.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

"(with the bodysuit) I can adapt to most figures. Once that's done, it's a case of a few sub divides and moving a few polys to get a perfect fit."

I see that you have been around before.. ;) And Netherworks! Only his MatWriter has saved me tons of work.

Quote - Well, for a start, let us see what response I get from this first little advice.

Ya have to remember, most of us Poser users are working on precious little in the way of DS tutes and no manual ;).

Laurie

I would definitely make use of tutorials showing how to convert D|S-only Dawn products for use in Poser.  As an end user, I'm willing to go that step if the item is something I want badly enough and doesn't have Poser support.  Writing it for ease of use by an inexperienced D|S user like myself would be wonderful.

Netherworks MATWriter Panel and Thumbnail Designer are use quite a lot on my system.

Perfect for doing an untextured render in a few clicks, add random colours to show material zones etc.

I remember years ago when we had to do loads of work to get things to the stage we can now.

The more time I can save, the more projects I can do.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

I saw a post a few pages back about shoes, and buying whole outfits just to get the shoes (sorry, don't remember who posted it).  I know I'll be making shoes for Dawn the instant I can get my hands on her! LOL! 
I've got at least 3 pair I know can be quickly converted, including a Summer Sandal. ;0)

Jan

The main reason that it is more difficult to make cloth in Poser is the poke through. It takes an excessive amount of time to fix. And make one little change and you have to do it all over again! Especially there are problems with more than one layer of clothing. And I who love layer on layer. But I think I have found a solution. Make the second layer dynamic and let the first stay conforming. Then in Daz, you can make both layers conforming because there you have collision.

But then again in Poser the drapes will look better...

AAARRRGGGGHHHHH!!!!! The Studio manual has been mentioned!!!! Runs for the hills to avoid the fallout!!!!! LOL.

It wouldbe nice to see a collaboration of both sides to do a, "This is how I do it in Poser, how do I do it in Studio?" type of thing. And of course the other way as well.

The classic for me has always been, what types of nodes can I use in Poser that works the same in Studio. I have some nice materials but it's a pain doing all the work, only to find that they don't work in both systems.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

For the shoe people, a nice pair of running shoes would be nice. Dawn looks like she keeps herself fit (basic shape).

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

For Tutorials, please don't rely on Video Tutorials being enough.

Some people, including myself, don't learn as well from video as they do from text, and, even if I did use Video Tutorials more, I don't want to watch a whole video over again when I'm stuck on one step, and they're much more difficult to skim to find that one step.

The Studio manual. The less we talk about it the better, I have one request to the new Dawn company, please please hire one(1) orderly and organized person.

I did said the nice word! (like my mama told me to)

 Video tutorials are not searchable!

Well, if I had a manual, maybe I could figure things out. LOL. As it is now I'm running on the hunt and "let's see what this does" system, which could take me forever ;). So some tutorials would be fantastic ;).

Laurie

Now this is what I like to see. People who want to make tutorials, people who want to make clothing, people who want to do shoes etc.

Everyone has their own talants, and for those that are just starting in making things, yep, you will find that thing you like to do.

I was a texture junkie, I could make textures all day.

Then I decided I wanted to learn to make things, not only could I do it, but I could also texture them as well.

When I first started I did dynamics as it was easier to do, no groups, no rigging.

Then I started to do conforiming things.

My BIG bigbear was fall off zones, I would make something and then, bang... exploding verts!!!!!! ARRRGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!

For a long time I wouldn't go near the joint editor as I hated it, could figure it out etc.

But.....

I found a nice tutorial, don't ask I can't remember now, that went through it all nice and easy.

Now I can use the joint editor with no probs.

Sometimes it's just down to getting the right info, put in a way that a non professional user can work with.

That's why I now pass on information about things, I was that person who was struggling, I know there are others in the same position and if I can make it easier for them, then I will.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Rigging long skirts for a weightmapped figure can be very different than rigging using the old spherical zones. I would say DS creators are just starting to get proficient at this. How well is it working for Poser users with weightmapped figures?

Things to check:

• Does the skirt move with the upper legs to handle most walking situations?
• How about climbing or descending stairs?
• Can the figure sit on a chair, sit on the floor, kneel on the floor? Lie flat on the floor (or a bed)?
• What happens if the figure does a side-kick? (Granted, in a kimono this probably shouldn't be possible, but in a full skirt it should be.)
• Are there ways to move the skirt away from the upper legs if needed, e.g. in a wind?

All of these movements take a combination of weight maps, movement handles (ghost bones), and morphs. Yes, dynamic clothes are also a possibility... in Poser. Dynamic clothes for DS currently require working with a content creator who has a copy of the OptiTex software and conversion add-on (currently about $10,000 investment). To be successful in both platforms, we'll need a development sample of a fully rigged long skirt that can be studied and/or adapted for use with new content, hopefully to be released at the same time as the figure itself.

Quote - Another thing about tutorials is.........

Don't waffle on about things that are not required. Go straight into the tutorial, get people working on things.

Yes but I would say add in some background and  information about why you are doing something a particular way. I'll give an example of a lighting tutorial I bought being brand new and unwilling to trawl through forums for advice. At the end of the tutorial I knew how to set up a lighting for a particular scene but I knew next to nothing about lighting. I did not know why I was told to use x light over y light. Or why I should use this distance or that f/stop etc. I did not know what the difference was between lights. It was very annoying.

Well the shader system in Daz is kind of dark territory. But the important thing is to get the bump and displacement from Poser to work. And that is only a question of finding the right strength- not too difficult.

I try in Poser only to use the most common maps in the 3D business because I want to render in C4D and other applications. High-res photographic material will always be my favorite.

Straught fro mthe FB page!!!!!!!!

Final version of Dawn to be ready by end of this week! Once she is in hand, we'll announce her release date and get things moving with all interested content creators.

Stay tuned!

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Quote - AAARRRGGGGHHHHH!!!!! The Studio manual has been mentioned!!!! Runs for the hills to avoid the fallout!!!!! LOL.

It wouldbe nice to see a collaboration of both sides to do a, "This is how I do it in Poser, how do I do it in Studio?" type of thing. And of course the other way as well.

The classic for me has always been, what types of nodes can I use in Poser that works the same in Studio. I have some nice materials but it's a pain doing all the work, only to find that they don't work in both systems.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

The nodes are different in the two systems because the render engines are different, but equivalencies can be documented. This is what I'm offering to do. If it's to be a volunteer effort, it will be done slowly. ;)

I recommend a wiki for community-based documentation projects, with logins required to allow moderation and with the appropriate plugins to be able to generate a complete PDF of all selected pages whenever a user wants one.

(I realize people may have some resistance to using a wiki for documentation based on previous experiences, but I'd just like to say that the wiki wasn't the problem.)

I wonder why it took this thread one page and a half to send me an e-mail warning me of replies. GAH!

The reason I mention the waffle is that I have seen too many things that start with a whole history of a figure, 6 pages later the tutorial begins.

It's a bit l;ike being at the post office behind one of those people thatare sending a parcel abroad, but they have to tell the assistant their whole life history befor e they move.

Just give a quick intro and away you go!!!!

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

SUbject being conforming vs dynamic, conforming is fine for things like shorts pants shirts, etc.  Long skirts, don't bother, make them dynamic.  I've seen a lot of longer dresses I'd like, then saw the dirty word, "conforming".  NO sale.  About half the time, even exporting it and importing to make an obj, okay, so you made an obj, that will explode when you try to do anything with it.  A long dress that's conforming and/or has body handles, forget me. I would ten times rather spend the time in the cloth room and have it look decent than the time fighting the cloth itself as conforming, and still looking like crap when it's done.  Sitting poses are where dynamic is the only real way, as you bring the figure from the zero pose, and have pushed the chair you want her on back, you bring the chair forward and it will displace the cloth as if it were real cloth. 

Doric.

Quote - For the shoe people, a nice pair of running shoes would be nice. Dawn looks like she keeps herself fit (basic shape).

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

OK, that gives me something to work on while waiting for her to be released. ;0)

I just saw the post on Facebook about her being ready by the end of the week, then came in here. LOL!

Jan

The easy way with that is to include both a confrming and a dynamic (speaking for Poser users here).

It's no real problem as you are only using the same OBJ, just that one is rigged and the other isn't.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

A set of running shoes would work with most shapes for Dawn, plus if age morphs come out, lots of older people wear them as well as they re niced an comfy!!!

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

I wonder why content creatore do not use more often the "hip" method with dresses. Always make the entire conforming dress, skirt or lower part of coat, jacket one continuos hip area. Then you can use even the conforming cloth as dynamic. No exporting importing needed.

Quote - SUbject being conforming vs dynamic, conforming is fine for things like shorts pants shirts, etc.  Long skirts, don't bother, make them dynamic.  I've seen a lot of longer dresses I'd like, then saw the dirty word, "conforming".  NO sale.  About half the time, even exporting it and importing to make an obj, okay, so you made an obj, that will explode when you try to do anything with it.  A long dress that's conforming and/or has body handles, forget me. I would ten times rather spend the time in the cloth room and have it look decent than the time fighting the cloth itself as conforming, and still looking like crap when it's done.  Sitting poses are where dynamic is the only real way, as you bring the figure from the zero pose, and have pushed the chair you want her on back, you bring the chair forward and it will displace the cloth as if it were real cloth. 

Doric.

Technically you can do the same with Daz studio and the smoothing. No, its not dynamic and it won't drape with gravity. But I have set a cube under a chair and had a dress collide with it.  If i want the dress to collide with V4 AND the cube, then first I have the dress collide with V4, export the smoothed dress as an obj, import, then collide the obj with the chair.   There are various ways. 

Sometimes I have subbed out the lower part of a dress with a DS dynamic skirt/dress and made the top invisible. Takes a bit of work but DS has some ways to do things too :)

Maybe if anyone's interested I can give a mini tutorial on how I've used DS smoothing to convert clothing from very different figures (like slon, or cookie, for example!) to Genesis or V4 or a child. And how to simulate fake drapes with a bit of work.  Or sculpt it in even! :)

DS has means, I tell ya! 

Wow… I have read this thread with interest. I admit that I have spent most of my time over the last few years at another site so I am a newbie here.

The enthusiasm around this initiative is infectious and it is hard not to get caught up in that and feel excited about the possibilities.

The promo images of the figure look good and I don’t want to debate the points that others have brought up like the breasts being too high, the waist being too narrow, the upper arms being too fat, the shoulders being too wide, the legs too short/long, etc.

The figure is what it is and everyone should judge for themselves whether it meets their personal “ideal” proportions.

My bigger concerns are about the fundamental viability of the figure. The concerns brought up by others about CAs having to support both the DAZ version and the Poser version… even if it is easy, it is still extra work. I worry that Dawn will be an Island and only clothing, hair, and morphs made specifically for her will work… and they will only work in either DAZ Studio OR Poser… but not both without extra work by the CAs. 

Even though DAZ has now broken out the male and female bases from Genesis so I can no longer share assets between male and female characters on Genesis 2, I can share assets between all the FEMALE or eventually between all the MALE characters on Genesis 2. While there might be rigging enhancements in Dawn, like extra bones in the hand, overall, it feels like a weight-mapped version of V4, where the weight-maps are specific to DAZ Studio or Poser. None of the clothes that I have for Genesis figures will work for Dawn which means I will have to buy all new content for her which will only work for HER.

It has been great to have Steve and Chris in here posting and answering questions but I am reminded, no offense to either of them, that THEY specifically are the ones I was so frustrated with when they were at another site and were very much involved in the decision to move away from Poser compatibility with Genesis. Even though I eventually embraced Genesis and now Genesis 2 it was not a “no-brainer” and now Dawn is another “standalone” figure.

While there have been promises of more transparency there are still announcements of announcements and promises of the site going live…Ken said in his newsletter that the site would be live July 1, but that date has come and gone it could be weeks before we actually have a live site. Even if the site does come on line in the next few weeks, they have said that Dawn will not be immediately available when the site is live. And the latest is now that Dawn will be ready by week’s end and “when she is in hand”, they will announce her availability. I am not sure what that even means.  Didn’t they just announce that she will be done by the end of the week, but they are not saying when she will be available… YET. I am so confused.

Competition is good for us customers but I am cautiously optimistic because I am worried that Dawn will be an island without supporting content and what content we do get will not be as versatile as Genesis or Genesis 2 or even V4 which could share content with Aiko, The Girl, and Stephanie.

And while everyone deserves the chance to demonstrate that things have changed; from what I see in this thread… excitement and enthusiasm about the possibilities and the old/new team aside… it seems like more of the same.  

I am anxious to see how this plays out.

Sorry for the long first post, but I did pay my dues by reading this whole thread and others which led me here.

All info appreciated.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

This is not a competition between figures, it is about systems. Standard wars is nothing new remember beta max?

Dawn and her male counterpart have a good possibility of winning the standard, so both Poser and Daz have to adapt. One of the positive things is that no license fee is involved.