Quote - Poser's is quite challenging too when u suck at math...lol

True, but at least you guys have BB and a few others to dig you out of a hole, we have to help ourselves or hope Richard has an idea or two.

Quote - Realistically, and avoiding the dreaded S word, I don't expect Dawn's public release for a few weeks yet.

Well, if she is going to be as good as hyped I can wait. I would rather wait for a figure that is superior than purchase one that is not worth my investment.

Quote - Hi, if you have a look at this http://www.sharecg.com/v/66637/browse/21/DAZ-Studio/DAZ-Studio-Shader-For-S.E.Asian-Shields download, I believe that the person who made it uses layers in ShaderMixer. If you downloaded it you would be able to import it in to ShaderMixer to play with.

Thanks for posting your network. Looking at the Blender blocks they have two inputs and Blending which is controlled by a numeric value.

The Mix brick in DS ShaderMixer is similar but has slightly more options.

Thank you for this and for your tests after. It looks like it would work well - I just confess I have no idea what exactly I'm looking at LOL

I hope the tutorials come |: I'll need guidance xD

Wow I'm burnt out before release a new benchmark in info burn

Quote - > Quote - Hi, if you have a look at this http://www.sharecg.com/v/66637/browse/21/DAZ-Studio/DAZ-Studio-Shader-For-S.E.Asian-Shields download, I believe that the person who made it uses layers in ShaderMixer. If you downloaded it you would be able to import it in to ShaderMixer to play with.

Thanks for posting your network. Looking at the Blender blocks they have two inputs and Blending which is controlled by a numeric value.

The Mix brick in DS ShaderMixer is similar but has slightly more options.

Thank you for this and for your tests after. It looks like it would work well - I just confess I have no idea what exactly I'm looking at LOL

I hope the tutorials come |: I'll need guidance xD

If I get time I can put together a tutorial with pics to show how to set the network up. Not sure it's totally bug free it's the first time I created a network to do that...so needs to be thoroughly tested.

Quote - > Quote - Poser's is quite challenging too when u suck at math...lol

True, but at least you guys have BB and a few others to dig you out of a hole, we have to help ourselves or hope Richard has an idea or two.

Too true...

Quote - From experience with pre-release items and peeks behind many a curtain (important note: elsewhere(s), not at Hivewire, I have no clue there), I'd say Fringewood's assertions are very much in line with what I've seen and been involved with in the past.

I know it takes me roughly 2-3 weeks to produce a character set; it can sometimes take considerably longer, sometimes much less time if things happen to flow 'just so'. (Pathetic note: I also have zero life outside of work, so I might work longer hours than someone who has to tend kids or a different dayjob or, you know, does things other than poke 3D apps with their time. ;) )

Seemingly simple clothing items may take roughly the same amount of time, as what is 'simple' visually is not always equally simple in terms of function or code-side complexity. Big or complex clothing sets? I've seen those take up to half a year. (I wouldn't necessarily expect to see that kind of thing at public release time for precisely that reason.)

2-3 weeks sounds speedy, considering all you put into your characters.  All those different lashes and eyeshadows and lips, then the shine and glitter, etc., etc.  That last one you turned out, with all the skins, was a mind-blower.  :-)

Anyhow, the first one you turn out for Dawn -- if you do one -- is at the top of my "git list."  :-)

As to a life outside 3D -- who needs one?  :-)  As a lone wolf woman now, I find 3D fills my needs totally.  That and a little juicy porn.  (Joke!)

-- On the subject of waiting...I picked the hardest tutorial imaginable, to take the edge off.  It's draining my brain, which is good.*

And testing a new modeler, since I've decided not to upgrade Marvelous Designer.  Designing clothing with MD is a lot of fun, but retopologizing is bor-ing.  I'd rather model from scratch.  Besides, Poser's simulator is almost as good as MD's.

And watching countless re-runs of TrueBlood. 

What the heck happened to 3Dream and Mairy?  Can we not count on any Dawn hair from them?  I know 3Dream is releasing hair on his own, but I miss their intricate duo do's.

And in closing, to all a good night and...I am not a fan of spline patching.

Quote - > Quote - it is a bit eye-bleedingly white isn't it? ^^;

Maybe they'd be receptive to adding a forum skin for a light on dark look and a neutral look. :)

Since it's not really out and live yet, maybe it is not the final look.

Quote - Poser's is quite challenging too when u suck at math...lol

I'm pretty good at math, and it's still challenging!!!!!

Hey Hivewire-

You should call the Release of Dawn- SUNRISE! And use the Beatles "Here Comes the Sun" as a theme.....

Eric

I will get Dawn and give her a try as long as she's easy to use, bends nicely, can be fully customized and most importantly for me: has a UVmap layout that makes texturing easier and also provides a good layout for doing makeup, would also be nice if you include a "guide" to tell us where to put the eyeliner, blush, etc...

EDIT: Oh and I almost forgot... I'm hoping Dawn has an extra layer (like how V4 has the Eyesurface) to add real reflections, because I no longer use burnt in reflections or transparency maps to add reflections...

I'm bookmarking this thread :)

Quote - I will get Dawn and give her a try as long as she's easy to use, bends nicely, can be fully customized and most importantly for me: has a UVmap layout that makes texturing easier and also provides a good layout for doing makeup, would also be nice if you include a "guide" to tell us where to put the eyeliner, blush, etc...

EDIT: Oh and I almost forgot... I'm hoping Dawn has an extra layer (like how V4 has the Eyesurface) to add real reflections, because I no longer use burnt in reflections or transparency maps to add reflections...

I'm bookmarking this thread :)

v4 actually has two extra layers.. cornea and eye surface.  if you are running P9 and up you should be able to rn everything you need to make a nice eye just using the cornea without the eye surface.  I always hide that material anyway.

I've put together a tutorial and uploaded it to ShareCG that can be found here

http://www.sharecg.com/v/70265/view/3/PDF-Tutorial/Creating-a-simple-mix-network-layered-materials

Could someone please have a look and proof read it for me?

It's for the mix network for layered material.

Thanks

Pen

No news????

Well, got a busy day later on with a webinar on Poser Rigging.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Quote - Surely i'm not the only one in a dim room with burnt out lights bulbs staring at a monitor as my only source of light? No? Yes?  I assumed this was normal ;) White forum pages hurt mah eyes!

And my eyes hurt from white writing on black background ... there is a reason why I am rarely in the Rero/RDNA forums. Dawn is making me come and read here ...

I hope there will be skins, at least two different ones.

Quote - Poking around the forum got me this message:

 

"You have been banned for the following reason:

No reason was specified.

Date the ban will be lifted: Never"

 

And I haven't even registered yet........

Wow - how did you do that? laughs

Quote - I've put together a tutorial and uploaded it to ShareCG that can be found here

http://www.sharecg.com/v/70265/view/3/PDF-Tutorial/Creating-a-simple-mix-network-layered-materials

Could someone please have a look and proof read it for me?

It's for the mix network for layered material.

Thanks

Pen

Thank you Pendraia, I'll read it when I'm no longer drop-down sleepy xD

Oh there are plenty of things I can do tutorials on to help to people.

An easy one would be a falloff zones one.

Everything right, grouped, conformed, posed, exploding verts!!!!! LOL.

Most of the time it's a quick scale and memoerise option.

The big prob is that you have to check everything in the item.

Great if it's a tiny vest, Grrrrr if it's a whole bodysuit.

You have to check all joints for vert probs when you bend, trwist or move up and down.

So, for each joint you have to do it 3 times. As you can see, that can take up a bit of time. Lol.

The good thing is, most opfthe time it's only a few joints that need to be adjusted.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Quote - > Quote - I've put together a tutorial and uploaded it to ShareCG that can be found here

http://www.sharecg.com/v/70265/view/3/PDF-Tutorial/Creating-a-simple-mix-network-layered-materials

Could someone please have a look and proof read it for me?

It's for the mix network for layered material.

Thanks

Pen

Thank you Pendraia, I'll read it when I'm no longer drop-down sleepy xD

That's great...let me know if you find any errors or things that don't make sense and I'll fix them

So, being the consummate diplomate, and thinking long and hard about the realism debate, I think I found the answer.

Dawn is a work of fiction modeled in virtual 3D, as has been stated by Hivewire, in that she is not based on any one single person. That means she is not real. She does not embody one specific real person with the inherent flaws found in the average real person.

However, every one of Dawn's proportions could exist and can be found in the real world, so she is realistic, as defined by Dictionary.com, specifically definition 3.

"3. resembling or simulating real life: a duck hunter skilled at making realistic decoys."

So everyone's right! LOL

It reminds me of the movie, "Weird Science." As an artist, I watch the scene where they are putting together their ideal woman, and out pops Kelly LeBrock? To this day I'm not convinced she matched the description, but I still enjoyed her performance. Just like I know I'm still going to enjoy Dawn and how she performs.

I'm going to party with a bunch of friends today, play music and sing a lot, eat good food, stuff like that.

I have started dealing with making HDR Light Studio merge with modo to produce a bunch of environmental EXR files for IBL/GI.  Had it for over a year, but that is a long story, with all sorts of major interruptions.  Downloading a few gigs worth of hdr files when I get tired of making custom photo studio arrangements to use on Dawn.

There's aways something to do while waiting.  Learning curve never stops.  Neither does life.

Quote - So, being the consummate diplomate, and thinking long and hard about the realism debate, I think I found the answer.

Dawn is a work of fiction modeled in virtual 3D, as has been stated by Hivewire, in that she is not based on any one single person. That means she is not real. She does not embody one specific real person with the inherent flaws found in the average real person.

However, every one of Dawn's proportions could exist and can be found in the real world, so she is realistic, as defined by Dictionary.com, specifically definition 3.

"3. resembling or simulating real life: a duck hunter skilled at making realistic decoys."

So everyone's right! LOL

It reminds me of the movie, "Weird Science." As an artist, I watch the scene where they are putting together their ideal woman, and out pops Kelly LeBrock? To this day I'm not convinced she matched the description, but I still enjoyed her performance. Just like I know I'm still going to enjoy Dawn and how she performs.

The funny thing is that her body looks alot like the russian actress Olga Keyzerova in her late teen early twenties.

Hmm, well, yesterday, 7/5/13.  Sit with Gretsch, "Petite waltz", hour or more, put thing away, getting nowhere that I want to go.  Walk around lawn, disgusting.  Buy weedeater, go around house, ruthless!  Don't know what it was, it ain't now.  Ivy growing behind garage, time to get to it, wish it would die.  Trumpet vine, cut off for the umpteenth time, it's a stinking weed that invades everyplace.  Come in, sit with Epiphone Les Paul clone, what in hell did I buy this screecher for?  Old fashioned rose in front of the house is begging for a trellis, sorry, with my eyes going bad, no way am I going to get my fingers near fast turning sharp things.  Order chinese for supper, then to computer, load Roxie, really getting to like that figure, super job.  Use the fitting room to put some Kate clothing on her, looks pretty good, good enough for my purposes. 

Brother in law's rock collection behind garage, he knew what it was, he's gone for ten years now, time for rocks to go away.  Turks cap lillies, time for them to go away, unruly mess now.  BIngo!  New weedeater, shouldn't take ten minutes to eliminate them and keep it cut down through the summer, maybe they won't come back up next year. 

Or maybe I'll just go play with Roxie again.  Got a couple of overstuffed chairs that need to leave, might haul them to the alley and wait for our privatized trash collection to pick them up, privatization very bad idea, doesn't work,  Should pull 35 year old organ off the porch, strip out the gold plated contact wires and scrap it, powersupply belly up.  Could fix it, only needs filter caps and rectifiers, but hands don't work like they once did, don't know what I'd fix it for.

I hate long weekends.

Doric.

"However, every one of Dawn's proportions could exist and can be found in the real world, so she is realistic, as defined by Dictionary.com, specifically definition 3."

And that's exactly my point.

Humans are not construction kits, where you can pick "that" legs and "that" arms and "that" belly and "that" boobs, mix it all together and out comes a realistic human.

That's simply not how anatomy works. Or realism.

There is statics, there is genetics, there are a gazillion of rules and dependencies.

So the only way to make sure that you've gotten everything right is to pick a human and then slavishly copy that exact shape without adding or removing or improving anything.

Of course noone forces you to do it that way.

You can eyeball and stylize and pick and choose any shape you want.

But if you do, you can't call the result to be still "realistic".

Is it so hard to understand what I'm after ?

Let's say I want to model a Spitfire Mk-V fighter plane.

I first look for photographs and blueprints.

And then I start modeling based on that blueprints.

I will create every bolt and every seam exactly where the blueprints tell me where they should be.

I can't pick the wings of a Spitfire Mk-I and the cockpit of a Mk-VII "because I like 'em better".

I have to stick to the blueprints of a Mk-V if i want a Mk-V.

And if I did a good job, I have a REALISTIC model of a Spitfire Mk V.

If I didn't, I have something that perhaps vaguely resembles a Spitfire, but realistic it isn't.

Of course all this is true only if I ACTUALLY WANT a realistic model of a Spitfire.

If I want just something Spitfire-ish or a Spitfire-toy, I can pretty much do what I want.

But I can't claim it's realistic.

Yes, it's boring and not inspiring and not "fun" and you can't add your own artistic "fingerprint" that way.

But that's how it works. The reward is not in making a unique piece of art that noone else could do, but making a great job transferring a piece of the real world into the virtual world of Poser.

So that others can use it as a tool to make unique art with it.

Well, maybe art isn't so much realistic in the "real" sense. Maybe more creativitly, creating worlds that don't exist, and maybe even a little escapism ;).

Laurie

Quote - Humans are not construction kits, where you can pick "that" legs and "that" arms and "that" belly and "that" boobs, mix it all together and out comes a realistic human. That's simply not how anatomy works. Or realism.

There is statics, there is genetics, there are a gazillion of rules and dependencies.

So the only way to make sure that you've gotten everything right is to pick a human and then slavishly copy that exact shape without adding or removing or improving anything.

Of course noone forces you to do it that way.

You can eyeball and stylize and pick and choose any shape you want.

But if you do, you can't call the result to be still "realistic".

You seem to have a very specific and limited meaning for words. Let's see. One of the definitions for realistic:

3. resembling or simulating real life: a realistic decoy.  (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/realistic)

Interesting. Let's see the definitions for "simulation":

a. Imitation or representation, as of a potential situation or in experimental testing.

1. imitation or enactment, as of conditions anticipated.

3. an assumption or imitation of a particular appearance or form; counterfeit.

(http://www.thefreedictionary.com/simulation)

Nice. What about "resemblance"?

1. The state or quality of resembling, especially similarity in appearance or in external or superficial details. See Synonyms at likeness.

3. something resembling something else; semblance; likeness

2. a degree, kind, or point of likeness.

3. a likeness, appearance, or semblance of something.

(http://www.thefreedictionary.com/resemblance)

The word "realistic" is not as limited as you seem to think. If it were, you couldn't possibly make something realistic in 3d, as it wouldn't be the ACTUAL THING.

The cornea isn't supposed to reflect if there's something above it (as is the case for V4): it's supposed to REFRACT. The only reflective thing should be the top layer of things.

Quote - Hmm, well, yesterday, 7/5/13.  Sit with Gretsch, "Petite waltz", hour or more, put thing away, getting nowhere that I want to go.  Walk around lawn, disgusting.  Buy weedeater, go around house, ruthless!  Don't know what it was, it ain't now.  Ivy growing behind garage, time to get to it, wish it would die.  Trumpet vine, cut off for the umpteenth time, it's a stinking weed that invades everyplace.  Come in, sit with Epiphone Les Paul clone, what in hell did I buy this screecher for?  Old fashioned rose in front of the house is begging for a trellis, sorry, with my eyes going bad, no way am I going to get my fingers near fast turning sharp things.  Order chinese for supper, then to computer, load Roxie, really getting to like that figure, super job.  Use the fitting room to put some Kate clothing on her, looks pretty good, good enough for my purposes. 

Brother in law's rock collection behind garage, he knew what it was, he's gone for ten years now, time for rocks to go away.  Turks cap lillies, time for them to go away, unruly mess now.  BIngo!  New weedeater, shouldn't take ten minutes to eliminate them and keep it cut down through the summer, maybe they won't come back up next year. 

Or maybe I'll just go play with Roxie again.  Got a couple of overstuffed chairs that need to leave, might haul them to the alley and wait for our privatized trash collection to pick them up, privatization very bad idea, doesn't work,  Should pull 35 year old organ off the porch, strip out the gold plated contact wires and scrap it, powersupply belly up.  Could fix it, only needs filter caps and rectifiers, but hands don't work like they once did, don't know what I'd fix it for.

I hate long weekends.

 

Doric.

Read this post, so I don't have to look at my weeds, LMAO at post. Feel slightly jealous someone else is playing with my Roxie, deside I should pay her more attention, continue to ignor that place I used to have a lawn, and go play with Roxie.

I'm ready to learn more about rigging ,so I can use that knowledge to help others.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Quote - @meatSim: I actually do the opposite and hide the Cornea... I do not like the way it reflects due to the fact that in real life reflections don't stop after leaving the iris, they also reflect on the sclera and the eyeSurface gives the effect I'm after... (Real reflection shown in a character I'm working on)

your right.. i think I was backwards... been a while since I built an eye shader... I know I was hiding one of them!

also, how about including some special morphs for different ethnic groups and not just "eastern-European" either, but

Irish, Italian, French, Germananic, Slavic, Scandinavian for the European ones?

not all Europeans look alike and it's cool to be able to mix them to be more representative of people with different ethnic backgrounds.

Exactly.  Some people love recreating real people and objects, others prefer to create what ifs.

Personally, I prefer creating what ifs.  I don't recreate a specific person, but create one that is representative of the people around me or in paintings/photos/film/tv or what I imagine a fantasy/otherworldly figure to look like. 

Hivewire never stated that Dawn is a recreation of a specific real person.  What was said ... Would you want this figure to be accurate to true human form and proportions, robust in its ability for being morphed and transformed into an endless number of characters and creatures, contain the latest in weight-map rigging technology, and have highly realistic joint bending and mesh smoothing?

Accurate to true human form and proportions means "realistic" what ifs to me, not a barbie doll, but not a copy of a real person either.

Highly realistic joint bending means her joints don't crumple when she's posed in extreme and not so extreme poses.

My problem is when people (who want my money) insist their idealized/sexualized version of a female is what I should aspire to look like.  And if I have to spend thousands upon thousands of dollars for surgeries and diets and products to mask imperfections (even at the expense of my health) to get there ... all the better.

We're artists, damn it, not scientists (mad or otherwise)

Quote - Well, maybe art isn't so much realistic in the "real" sense. Maybe more creativitly, creating worlds that don't exist, and maybe even a little escapism ;).

Laurie

Final Dawn files have been delivered.

Content creators be at the ready!

Let's get ready to rrrrrrruuuuummmmmbbbbbbbllllleeeeee!!!! Lol.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

o/ - cheer!

Does best Donkey from Shrek impression!!!

"Me, Me, Pick me!!!" LOL.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

So ... um ... soon?!?

/evil cackle

Quote - Final Dawn files have been delivered.

Content creators be at the ready!

 

Quote - Final Dawn files have been delivered.

Content creators be at the ready!

 

I'm ready!!!  Just let us know who to contact, or how to get the files. :D

Jan

Quote - Final Dawn files have been delivered.

Content creators be at the ready!

 

Woot!

Quote - Final Dawn files have been delivered.

Content creators be at the ready!

 

WOOT!! Thank ya Steve :)

Get a feeling this will be a noon Utah time release!!! Lol.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Well, that was one prediction that was wrong!!! LOL

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Looking forward to seeing what people come up with.

I only do freebies now, so I can wait until Dawn's public launch.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Quote - Exactly.  Some people love recreating real people and objects, others prefer to create what ifs.

Personally, I prefer creating what ifs.  I don't recreate a specific person, but create one that is representative of the people around me or in paintings/photos/film/tv or what I imagine a fantasy/otherworldly figure to look like.

This is really beautifully put, and is my take on it also. :)

It's possible enough to create 'clones' of really real people in this medium. It's also possible to make depictions of things that aren't, or could not be. Personally, I find the ability to depict the latter pretty dang valuable artistically! If we as human beings weren't interested in idealized forms or 'impossible' beauty from time to time, we probably wouldn't have half the use for photoshop that we do in realms far beyond this medium. ;) (Though I'm also in agreement that the 'buy my product and you, too, can be impossible in real life!' grinds my nerves camp.)

Quote - Final Dawn files have been delivered.

Content creators be at the ready!

 

I'm ready, I'm ready!!!!!

Well, off to webinar, see you all later.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Quote -  

I have started dealing with making HDR Light Studio merge with modo to produce a bunch of environmental EXR files for IBL/GI.  Had it for over a year, but that is a long story, with all sorts of major interruptions.  Downloading a few gigs worth of hdr files when I get tired of making custom photo studio arrangements to use on Dawn.

I'm still testing Modo -- and loving it!  Silo, on steroids!  Silo, on the best hit of acid possible.  (I've never done acid, I swear.)  Beautiful, lovely program -- I'm willing it to me, by courting the 3D gods.  Don't ask how.  It involves intricate rituals that I refuse to divulge.

So...any Dawn news?  I guess not.  Maybe I'm being petulant...and I's good at that...but -- I hope this delay is just to tweak and polish Dawn and not to put together a bunch of starter packs, pro packs, and stuff like that.  Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think folks are going to sink a lot of money into Dawn immediately.  Not until we see how she works out for us.  I'll buy a character for her, if it's got a great skin texture, a morph pack or two, a pose pack and NW's conversion utilities -- standard stuff, and that's all I'm getting for starters.  Anyhow, I thoroughly hate packs (bunldes) of stuff, "packed" with stuff I don't want or need.

Yeah, I'm petulant.  I'm sorry.  I better go back to Modo...that puts me in a great mood every time.  Easy spline patching!  And I thought I hated curve patching.  :-)

I really do hope we get a vampire Dawn though.  I'd like to make her look like Baby Vamp.

Edit:  Until Dawn comes out, I'm re-adopting Anastasia.  I have problems getting stuff to conform to Roxie's arms.  Other than that, I do like Roxie.

surreality.

There are so many members at Renderosity so it is impossible to know them all. I went to surreality's gallery and store out of shear curiously. I may be only a beginner in CG but I do know something about art. I recognizes it when I see it! And I can tell you mister without a shadow of a doubt, that you are not only a great artist, you have it in your blood.

Dawn is on her way out to Content Creators as we speak!

is the date for the "normal" Release known ?