Is Etujedi a professional?

I don't think not having a store or a gallery excludes someone to know what they like or means that they don't know what they're doing. Just saying ;).

Laurie

Quote - 99 % of all content work is done outside Poser/Daz. In Modo or another modeler. The lasts bits has to be done individually with both Poser and Daz, if correctly prepared it takes only a few seconds.  No need for DSON or import back and forth. The final work is native to both.

The blouse I'm working on disagrees with you there - I modelled it in the morning after we content creators had access to Dawn, and since then I'm rigging it in Poser, after running across some wtf-ish bugs. Ok, I'm relatively new at WM (before this, all I'd done was a bra and panties for Michelle) but still, I can model+UVmap+texture faster than I take for rigging+cleaning up Poser files+writing automatizing stuff in the cr2 files+testing+making thumbnails.

And I don't want to even think of the time I'd take to make this stuff work in DS. xD

Quote - Is Etujedi a professional?

Well, if he ain't, he oughta be, cause those bends are fantastic. LOL.

Laurie

Quote - Bejaymac:

I would wait for that, just an example:

Rawart is going to make morphs - and he knows how to do that for a Tri-Ax figure.

Let's put it this way Kerya, you buy a character morph and texture set for Dawn, problem is that it was made in Poser, as a DS user you already know that your going to have to redo the material settings as the Poser ones will be crap in DS. On top of that you now you have the major headache of getting that character morph to work, if it's a dial spun MOR pose file then it's looking for valueParms and targetGeoms, which we don't have in a Tri-Ax figure, so nothing will happen. If it's a custom morph, then you're fucked as you can't INJect into a Tri-Ax figure, doesn't matter if it's deltas & chanvis PZ2 or PMD as neither of them will work.

Then there's Poser made conformers, they are in a format which isn't native to DS, so it has to be dragged in through the PZ3 importer plugin, which can't read Poser WM data and makes an ass of Poser morphs. So there you are with a dress that has half a rig, and morphs that need to be rebuilt before they will work "properly". Even if you don't bother with fixing the morphs, you still have a lot of work to do before the clothing will work half as good as it did in Poser, especially if Dawn has the same crap projection templates that Genesis came with, or worse doesn't have any, in which case your going to have to learn how to rig and paint WM in DS.

Don't know about you, but I sure as hell wouldn't be happy paying for something if I had to practically rebuild the whole bloody thing before I could use it.

"Pissed", probably Laura, but for a different reason than you think, I have quite a few friends who do this hobby, and any time they have a problem with content not working I get asked to help, which usually ends up with me up to my armpits in the inner workings of both Poser & DSON files, "fixing" whatever it is that's wrong. It's one of the reasons I can help point others in the right direction over on the DAZ forums when they run into problems, as I've probably already fixed it or have run into a similar issue on another product.

So as you can probably guess I'm not looking forward to all of the Poser only content for Dawn, as I'll probably end up having to make some of it work in DS, as it's odds on that at least one of them will ignore my warnings and buy it any way.

sigh now I'm feeling depressed at that thought :sad:, think I'll go and get pissed tonight.

I say, let's please have faith in HiveWire and their expertise.  Those people have created for Poser and DS, as have their content creators.  For their own sakes, HiveWire and content creators will try to do their best (I hope!) for ALL of us.

And if I turn out to be a head in the clouds optimist, we'll have had a month of excitement anyway.   

I really do think Dawn and the rest of the HiveWire figure line will be a success though.  Just reading the article that was published here was heartening.  When's the last time we've seen several major 3D communities unite to support any sort of effort?  That, in itself, is an achievement.

I hate this DS/Poser division.  It's silly, and I've been as guilty as anyone, at times, when it comes to taking sides.  But isn't it time for the Wall to come down?

"It is what Etujedi (from Hivewire3D) said on one of the first pages of this thread ... do you believe him?"

No.

It's a user thing, non-interesting for real content-providers. Must as we like and support Hivewire remember that all companies do marketing and they tend to exaggerate a little (and sometime more). Take everything with a grain of salt.

In principle Dawn bring no new to the table about how things are done. In Daz it do things the Daz way (such as it was before) and in Poser it does things the Poser way. What do you need to make content is an exact mesh model in the right size and perfecty positioned. That is all there is to it.

Quote - So as you can probably guess I'm not looking forward to all of the Poser only content for Dawn, as I'll probably end up having to make some of it work in DS, as it's odds on that at least one of them will ignore my warnings and buy it any way.

Why do you think there'll be a lot of Poser only content?

I think there will be a lot of Poser-only content, and a lot of DS-only content, and a lot that works with Poser and DS.  And that's fine.  Every item doesn't have to work with both programs.  Just make it clear in the product description.

"Every item doesn't have to work with both programs.  Just make it clear in the product description."

Precisly so.

Bejaymac is talking about what you as a user would need to do to convert a Poser Dawn piece of cloth to Daz. This is similar to try to put a Boeing 777 into a matchbox. The best way to do it is simply to export it as an obj and do all the rigging in Daz anew. Better to leave that to the content-creators. The way it was before, that V4 content worked out of the box in both programs is never coming back.

Perhaps you should lets those content makers do their own work to get it to work in whatever format they need.

Well, my project is done, it WILL be only Poser due to the materials used.

I have said in a previous posting that once it is released, if Studio users want to convert it to work in Studio, then I have no probs with it.

Content makers work with what they are more experienced with, once I get a few tutorials, then perhaps I will get Studio things working as well.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Quote - I think there will be a lot of Poser-only content, and a lot of DS-only content, and a lot that works with Poser and DS.  And that's fine.  Every item doesn't have to work with both programs.  Just make it clear in the product description.

You're probably right, too.  :biggrin:

And if a program-specific item is popular enough, it'll be converted by someone, I'd think.  Content creators, some anyway, do this to pay the bills.

More users, more sales, more $.  :-)

Edit:  And instead of looking at Dawn-content as a potential headache, we could look at Dawn content creation as a challenge.  Who knows...somebody  may come up with a python or the DS equivalent that'll convert clothing perfectly.

Hense why I said Hivewire needs a Content conversion team or solution for CA's that want to support both platforms. Not all content creators will magically know or have both apps in an instant, so initially you will get a Daz or Poser version only of a product until/or if they bother to learn the other app. A dedicated team can assist in this, it will only be to their benefit. Imagine a CA made a cool morph++ package that was Daz or Poser only. The other party will not be pleased.

Can wait to see some skin textures for Dawn. That is something I always wanted to learn but could never find a good tutorial to learn from.

I don't know how the HiveWire3D team will do it, but I tend to leave the content makers to make the content for whatever system they want.

All the best.

Great Incle LROG

Perhaps a vendor exchange: "I have x for Poser and need it converted to x for DS and I'll convert your DS y to Poser".

Sounds great, in theory. LOL

Laurie

Quote - I don't know how the HiveWire3D team will do it, but I tend to leave the content makers to make the content for whatever system they want.

All the best.

Great Incle LROG

And that will "unify" the market how? To me that will cause more of a split.

paganeagle2001, "I tend to leave the content makers to make the content for whatever system they want."

A wise decision!

Zev0, "Not all content creators will magically know "

I think you underestimate the content-providers. It is difficult to image a business with a contest so fierce. The survivors of this deadly competition will have no problem with learning both programs, trust me. 90% of Dawn cloth will come in both variations I'm sure of it.

So lets put Zev0 to the challenge of his own words, lets see your againg morphs for Genesis working for Dawn.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

In order for them to work they have to be built from scratch and cannot be converted, which will take a good amount of time. And currently I have enough stuff on my plate and am already behind schedual on current projects. So a challenge like that I will pass on at this stage.

Just as I thought.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

But arn't your products splitting the community???

Shouldn't they work in all systems?

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Quote -   Every item doesn't have to work with both programs.  Just make it clear in the product description.

110% correct.  Add on, if you're using one, you see an item that's interesting, click on the thumb and find it's for the other, then the obvious answer is the "BACK" button and continue looking. 

And nothing will have changed at all, because that same situation has existed since ds and Poser material setups became different.  This is not a change and most people have learned to work with it. 

bejaymac, not looking forward to the requests of your friends and the work you will be asked to do, there is a very simple answer.

"no"

Doric.

Never mind back to people who want to contribute.

I'll do a few tests to see if these materials I have used will work, you never know I might fall lucky at the first go. Lol.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Quote - But arn't your products splitting the community???

Shouldn't they work in all systems?

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

All my products work for Both Daz and Poser (except for two i think), so how am I splitting anything?

But you have to use DSON, but if a person does not want to use DSON, then they cannot use it in Poser.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Quote - Imagine a CA made a cool morph++ package that was Daz or Poser only. The other party will not be pleased.

I really don't think that will be much of an issue.  Even before DS, people had to accept that some products would not work with their software.  (Poser 4 user?  No dynamic cloth for you.) 

Now, it may be that Hivewire will, as part of their marketing strategy, decide to sell only products that work in both Poser and DS.  But I don't think they have to.  They could set up separate Poser and DS stores within Hivewire, and that would work just as well, IMO.  And if they choose not to sell DS-only and Poser-only items, other stores, like Rosity, will.

Vintorix is right: the days of V4 content working out of the box in both programs are never coming back.

And good riddance, I say.  The price of that compatibility is too high.  I like Poser's shaders better than DS's, and don't want to give them up.  Ditto dynamic cloth and dynamic hair.

And on the flip side, why should a DS user give up things like they like -  say, Autofit or Look At My Hair?  If a merchant makes a fantastic sasquatch character for Dawn using Look At My Hair, I'd look at it, admire it, maybe even suggest someone try a Poser version, but I'm not going to get upset that it doesn't work in Poser.  Because, come on.  I'm not three years old. 

@ paganeagle2001Well that isn't my problem to be honest. The point is I made support available from my side. How well Dson works and how many people use it is out of my control. I made support available within the structures provided.

Quote - And on the flip side, why should a DS user give up things like they like -  say, Autofit or Look At My Hair?  If a merchant makes a fantastic sasquatch character for Dawn using Look At My Hair, I'd look at it, admire it, maybe even suggest someone try a Poser version, but I'm not going to get upset that it doesn't work in Poser.  Because, come on.  I'm not three years old. 

Agree with randym77, both programs have good tools to play with.

A user who is more experienced in X software does not mean they are as experienced in Y software.

I would sooner buy from someone who knew their stuff and didn't do a bodge job on something they were not sure about.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

My thought on that is getting the pores and pimples in the right place to match the texture is going to be a big pain in the ass unless you find a way to utilize your base texture via filters of some sort, expecially on bump where it needs to be fairly precise.. i think.  

I think procedural bump could stand to be more complex also.  I think certain areas of the skin need to have more or less bump and that the size of the bumps needs to modulate over different parts of the body.  Of course I could be talking out of my ass here.. I'm not super knowledgable about anatomy.  I just think that procedural bump looks a bit odd in close ups

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Would it not be possible to use the procedural for the "background" in Poser, and blend it with bump -and specularity that only modify those details? I.e., a neutral monotone-grey map with some bright and dark spots for pores and dimples + bright (bump) or dark (spec) hair painted where it occurs?

Quote - Oh well...we can still talk about Dawn here, yeah? :)

I think the Dawn posts at Daz may be disappearing because, while the figure will be free, the Hivewire site will be a brokerage, and therefore commercial. They have rules about that ;). I'm guessing tho...I don't work for Daz nor do I know anyone that runs it ;).

Renderosity has similar rules, tho they will let you link to a free figure, even if it's on a commerical site (I think...lol).

Laurie

Renderosity is reasonable with that. When we were working on Antonia, Rendo had no problems at all with me linking to my product page for Antonia's Morphs (granted, I started them showing them here and they were supposed to be free and it was here I decided to make them commercial, but...)

Quote - Perhaps a vendor exchange: "I have x for Poser and need it converted to x for DS and I'll convert your DS y to Poser".

Sounds great, in theory. LOL

Laurie

I'm very willing to do that if I find someone who makes stuff for DS. ;)

@paganeagle  why are suddenly attacking and goading people and content creators at that. You have stated that what you are producing is Poser only - ok no problem. But you seem to think at least that is what I'm getting from some of your posts that DS creators must make things Poser compatible.

DS user are going to be cautious; already we have 2 people who have created something and both have said that their creations will be Poser only.

Are DS user not allowed to raise their concerns, if we are all going to get along then the baiting has to stop - your challange to Zev0 and your reply when he said he was too busy was insulting and showed a lack of understanding for his products.

Please don't alienate the DS content creators before this has even began.

Quote - > Quote - I don't know how the HiveWire3D team will do it, but I tend to leave the content makers to make the content for whatever system they want.

All the best.

Great Incle LROG

And that will "unify" the market how? To me that will cause more of a split.

That unification is something the HiveWire team wants with Dawn.

With DAWN. The BASE.

We, the content creators, never vouched for that. And people seem to be trying to find something new and worse than before.

It's ALWAYS been like that. I've NEVER made anything worrying about DS. And I used to say I never will. I'm nowadays considering. Because of Dawn. I won't hold my breath for it though.
I've had buyers convert my stuff for V4 to DS themselves.

Sorry, I just can't be arsed. DS users are great, and they make great stuff, but I don't like DS.
It's a good app. I didn't do well with it. The same way as I think Blender is an amazing, very powerful app, and I hate trying to work with it. It just doesn't suit my style of working. It's just the way it is.
Poser is my second job (currently my only one actually). People say I'll sell more if I make things work for both.

I say I take way too long trying that, and precious time of grumbling in what is a dull and tedious and irksome task for me that I could be using creating a new thing already.

I bet I'll take longer converting a product I already have for Poser to DS than I would creating a second entirely new product for Poser.

And that's me. That's the choice I have made as a vendor. Nobody can force me otherwise. You can think it's a shame I don't do stuff for DS, but it would be silly to hate me for it. I'm not trying to be the savior of Poser+DSdom, I'm trying to create 3d stuff.

If you're a skinny person and want an outfit that's too loose on you, you get someone who can sew to fit the cloth for you, you don't go to the factory ragind that they didn't make it your size.

No, I'm not alienating anyone. Please do not put words into my mouth.

The project I am working on is using materils for Poser as I work in.... Poser.

Now, I have to check those materials in Stusio and if they work, great.

If they don't I have said that others can convert them if they want to.

The challenge to Zev0 is my usual challenge when people say those things. Easy to say stuff, harder to do it.

Please look back through the thread and see those that are working on Studio projects as well.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

I work with a wonderful group of artists on Facebook, both Elite Models 3D and Digital Stardust, and we are waiting anxiously for her to be released. And very curious to see what sort of support the vendors will supply. I myself am personally so excited, TLC.

I get a feeling that the content makers are being "sneaky" and will be waiting until release day to show us what they have been up to.

A few WIP's have appeared in other threads, but I can understand them wanting to keep their projects secret at this time.

I just hope there is something for everyone to have fun with.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

OK i see i see.. you are concerned with content that is released as 'poser only tested' or 'DS only tested' .  I think I was mis reading what you were implying.  I was reading that a content creator wouldnt be able to make it work for both programs, which didn't make sense to me, I mean both programs should be able to set up an OBJ as a clothing figure.  I think the hope is that the content creators will either take the time to set up their products to work with both versions of dawn or buddy up with another artist more familiar with the content creation workflow specific to the other program.  

Its a valid concern though from an end user.  From a DS user point of view if most content is designed only for poser, their experience with it may be much the same as the genesis in poser debacle.

Hopefully once hivewrie has their froums set up, with a CA section, there will be enough sharing of information and expertise to get most vendors going on both platforms.

Quote - > Quote - Bejaymac:

I would wait for that, just an example:

Rawart is going to make morphs - and he knows how to do that for a Tri-Ax figure.

Let's put it this way Kerya, you buy a character morph and texture set for Dawn, problem is that it was made in Poser, as a DS user you already know that your going to have to redo the material settings as the Poser ones will be crap in DS. On top of that you now you have the major headache of getting that character morph to work, if it's a dial spun MOR pose file then it's looking for valueParms and targetGeoms, which we don't have in a Tri-Ax figure, so nothing will happen. If it's a custom morph, then you're fucked as you can't INJect into a Tri-Ax figure, doesn't matter if it's deltas & chanvis PZ2 or PMD as neither of them will work.

Then there's Poser made conformers, they are in a format which isn't native to DS, so it has to be dragged in through the PZ3 importer plugin, which can't read Poser WM data and makes an ass of Poser morphs. So there you are with a dress that has half a rig, and morphs that need to be rebuilt before they will work "properly". Even if you don't bother with fixing the morphs, you still have a lot of work to do before the clothing will work half as good as it did in Poser, especially if Dawn has the same crap projection templates that Genesis came with, or worse doesn't have any, in which case your going to have to learn how to rig and paint WM in DS.

Don't know about you, but I sure as hell wouldn't be happy paying for something if I had to practically rebuild the whole bloody thing before I could use it.

"Pissed", probably Laura, but for a different reason than you think, I have quite a few friends who do this hobby, and any time they have a problem with content not working I get asked to help, which usually ends up with me up to my armpits in the inner workings of both Poser & DSON files, "fixing" whatever it is that's wrong. It's one of the reasons I can help point others in the right direction over on the DAZ forums when they run into problems, as I've probably already fixed it or have run into a similar issue on another product.

So as you can probably guess I'm not looking forward to all of the Poser only content for Dawn, as I'll probably end up having to make some of it work in DS, as it's odds on that at least one of them will ignore my warnings and buy it any way.

sigh now I'm feeling depressed at that thought :sad:, think I'll go and get pissed tonight.

 Quick example of my project.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

I keep remembering a VERY nice line of shaders that a vendor produced, that would work only in DS.  One of her compadres would convert the shaders to Poser.  When Poser sales for the shaders stopped -- no more antique Poser shaders.  As long as the Poser sales continued, the shaders kept coming.  The converter did what was profitable for her -- understandable, and that's life.  :-)

If there's demand, a product will likely get converted.  :-)  Law of supply and demand, and that's probably totally not applicable, but I thought it sounded good. :-)))

Seriously, we're playing the "what if" game again.  What if the world ends tomorrow?  Then NOBODY gets to play with Dawn.

See?  :crying:

LROG, your outfit looks great.  :-)  Stop making me jealous!

Another version of the project.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

And converting products would be a way to get DS users and Poser users working together again, too.

I'm just full of optimism!  Annoying, huh?  :-)

Edit:  I just took a look at Look at My Hair, and it IS nice.  As a sort of equivalent/not a rival, one of the Rendo vendors has developed a cool python that'll let hair be streaked and highlighted -- and I love it, but it works only in Poser, I think.

So there are products now, that won't work in all programs.

Shutting up now.  :-)  I've got to bite the bullet and see what's making the funky noise in the utility room.  I don't want to know... 

It's better to be optimistic than pessimistic.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Quote - Can wait to see some skin textures for Dawn. That is something I always wanted to learn but could never find a good tutorial to learn from.

UVMaps and Texturing

You can search youtube for texturing tutorials.

no matter what app there using it's still texturing.

You can search google for texturing tutorials.

DAZ Poser characters all ready have a UVMap.

Ya paint a texture on to a UVMaps
ya can paint on the mesh in a 3D environment with app's like zBrush,C4D's BodyPaint,3DCoat etc etc
or with a 2D app like photoshop or gimp

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Zev0 said (about making Aging morphs for Dawn

Quote - In order for them to work they have to be built from scratch and cannot be converted, which will take a good amount of time. And currently I have enough stuff on my plate and am already behind schedual on current projects. So a challenge like that I will pass on at this stage.

I love your morphs!  Hope you'll eventually do some for Dawn :)

**
**

SatiraCapriccio said

Quote - Once we have our hands on Dawn, we will be able to post renders in the "other figures" topic though .

Well, since I do have my hands on her, I just posted the ones I had here in "The Non-DAZ3D Figure Render Thread" you were referring to :).   :)

Not that I've gotten any positive feedback anywhere I've posted them, but at least I'm having fun trying her out...

Quote - > Quote - Can wait to see some skin textures for Dawn. That is something I always wanted to learn but could never find a good tutorial to learn from.

UVMaps and Texturing

You can search youtube for texturing tutorials.

no matter what app there using it's still texturing.

You can search google for texturing tutorials.

DAZ Poser characters all ready have a UVMap.

Ya paint a texture on to a UVMaps
ya can paint on the mesh in a 3D environment with app's like zBrush,C4D's BodyPaint,3DCoat etc etc
or with a 2D app like photoshop or gimp

 

I have searched youtube and google, but I haven't found any Skin Texturing tutorials that work well for me. I got Fugazi1968 tutorials on UV Mapping which has really helped me understand how to UV Map

I also think that skin texturing is not easy. Not something you can learn over night, takes some artistic skill and experience.