Just tried to post some not-so-thrilled product feedback in the marketplace, only to find that all feedback must be "approved" by the vendor before it appears on the product page. What the hell is up with that? It makes the whole idea of providing customer feedback meaningless. Get your buddies to say nice things about your stuff, but weed out any remarks by actual users who had problems. Grrr.

Really? That is NOT right.... I can understand an ability to remove intentionally provoking or rude comments (ie. swearing, name calling etc.) but to have to be approved by artists, then waht is the point? things that make you go hmmmmm...

I would assume their maybe is another reason for this occurring. I have bought items from the store that didn't appear to be working correctly. Upon contacting the artist, It was explained to me what I was doing wrong. Following their advice the problem disappeared. I think the marketplace is trying to alleviate someone making harsh remarks about a product without letting the artist attempt to resolve the problem first. Everyone I've ever bought from has bent over backwards to make me happy. Even when I was doing something incredibly stupid.

yes, but it does still not give a completelty rounded viewpoint...which is why I asked here about 2 models but...still haven't seen a response :( Maybe because noone wants to say what they think or what? I don't know. it seems like good or bad can benefit the creator because they can update the model for those who bought it and everyone else after hearing what isn't so great about it. I don't think criticism is a bad thing, as long as it is not said with alot of anger along with it. Everyone makes mistakes, or doesn't always "see" all the details. Especially after looking at the thing for so long while he/she is creating it. It all becomes a blur after awhile and you actually need the crits. Just my feeling...

I sent some feedback to one of the merchants after buying some of his stuff that said, "Look, nice, but you didn't complete the job." He responded almost immediately with an apology and made up for it with a revision to the product and a supplemental d/l for me and anyone else who bought the product. On the basis of that, seems to me that if you have a problem with something, you still write the feedback and let the merchant know. As for approvals... well, folks, that's advertising.

I can see contacting the artist first. But when you are rating the product in the store it shouldn't have to be approved by the vendor, naturally they are gonna throw out the ones that have anything negative to say about the product. I am not flaming anyone because I see a lot of great stuff in the store. It just seems to be wrong to approve of the ratings. Like CalgCowboy said... advertising

Some time ago , we had a dicussion of making a separate forum for this. I buy many things here,had very few complaints and in most of these cases a good and quick help from the creators. If nothing works,go to the storecontakt and they will help you.And put a warning in this forum if you have bad experience.

You can also post your concerns in the complaints and debates forum, that's part of the reason it was created... From what I've heard, they're also pretty good about issuing refunds when someone isn't satisfied with their purchase... I mean, I do understand that it could be helpful to other people to see if someone had a complaint about a product on the product page, but there are ways to spread the word if you're dissatisfied with something... you can post here, you can post to complaints & debates, and even in the store contact forum, people will see it, if they're active in the community anyway, and if they're not, then they can still contact the vendor, or the store admins to resolve the issue... okay, I'll shut up now.

The issue is with a couple of hair props and their MATs not applying properly. It may be a Win/Mac problem, I don't know. But I think potential buyers should be aware that all is not smooth sailing, at least for Mac users. I actually did contact the vendor, and he/she gave me a list of what tex/trans to apply where, manually, but frankly it's a pain in the ass--the props keep making you find texture after texture every time you load them, which is time-consuming and annoying, and makes the items more trouble than they're worth-- especially given all the great free hair that's available these days. Some items I've bought in the marketplace have worked perfectly, some have needed tweaking (actually had to edit the obj files for a couple of Billy-T's things), and some have been real disappointments. I think that information should be available to other potential buyers--otherwise "customer feedback" should be called "testimonials" or "happy campers" or something.

Actually you can post those things in the marketplace forum as well. That's what it is there for. But there is no reason to even have a feedback area if the feedbacks are all biased. Makes you wonder about the items with no feedback...

The trouble with posting such things in a forum is that, after a day or two, they go away, pushed further and further back into the archive, where few bother to tread. My feeling is that such complaints should be attached to the products to which they refer--let the vendors take the bad with the good.

To mosca:my solution for your hairproblem if you got it with all the texture applied,save it to the libary and the next time you load,you dont have to do it manually. I would be interested what hair you are talking about, if you dont want to say here,send me an instand massage

FWIW, when I use MacInstaller to install Kozaburo's wonderful free hair (such as the Wave) the maps and MATs didn't get installed properly, either. My guess is that there's something MacInstaller doesn't do properly, since file references in Poser files all use the same format for defining paths.

MacInstaller was written before people started creating MAT files. It might not be a problem with improper code so much as trying to keep up with all the developments: MAT files, JCMs, swappable geometries, and who knows what else in the last 6 months? Carolly

I don't use MacInstaller--and I had no problem w/ Koz's wave hair. Saving the props (Vairesh's Lulu and pigtails, whatever it's called) to the library works fine unless I want to change MATs; they don't seem to function once the hair's been saved. Like I say, more trouble than it's worth.

I do not use it anymore and even for good comments. For me this is not a usefull functionality and does not help us (buyers) at all. Why I would spend time to write something that would only help the vendor. I would rather write something that will help us (buyers).

I really have never had problems with vendors, I did one time notice something wrong on an item I purchased, and I first contacted the vendor, and got a quick satisfying response. So maybe as stated, contact the seller first, then leave your feed back :) Vendors want you to be happy!

As stated, did contact the vendor; solution didn't work.

Hello Mosca, A bit dissatisfied it seems. When you go to buy software for your MAC do you buy software that says PC only ? If you check the Jenna Hair you will see that from day one it has said "PC Only" not "PC/MAC". That listing is there for a reason on products and on the software you buy from retail merchants. It tells you what the designer made the product to work with and that it will not work or work right on a different platform. You are correct that I did not post your MAC feedback on this PC product. The reason is not hard to figure out since you applied it to a MAC and the product plainly states "PC Only". A classic PC/MAC/POSER debate could start here concerning the use of Macconverter etc but what it boils down to is that you as an individual assumed this product would work on a MAC after the vendor plainly labeled it for the PC then you posted negative feedback when it did not work as you thought it should on a platform it was not labeled to run on . Yes, I did try to help you solve your problems on your MAC( I dont own a MAC, another reason for the "PC Only" listing) with this product and assumed the fix I suggested resolved your dilemma to your satisfaction. I am sorry you are upset but the product is PLAINLY labeled PC Only. Again I can only assume from the nature of this post that you are upset. Renderosity wishes to keep all customers happy so I would suggest you contact the store and get your cash back. Do not underestimate how helpful the store staff wants to bethey want you happy. Also, for the record not one problem has been pointed out on the Jenna Hair when it is used on a PC ;-) MACs are wonderful machines and I know a lot of graphics pros use them. Just please, all you MAC users, dont get upset with my products when they do not work on your MAC when I have plainly labeled them for the PC ;-) Vairesh

Vairesh: I've used dozens and dozens of marketplace and freestuff items marked "PC Only"--if it weren't for macconverter I'd have practically nothing in my libraries that didn't come with the program. Almost all of these "PC Only" products work flawlessly when converted, so naturally my expectation was that yours would, too. Of course that's not your fault--but maybe in the future you might try to find a beta-tester who uses a Mac, and if the MAT files don't load properly, or whatever, you can state that clearly in your description copy. For most of us Mac users, "PC Only" means only that the product was not written for mac and must be converted. I'm dissatisfied, true,and will try to get a refund (not real happy with the Lula tex map, either--looks like helmet-head except in extreme close-up). But the real issue for me is that I might not have bought them in the first place if the vendors weren't so busy screening out any-and-all negative product feedback--perhaps some other disgruntled Mac user might have warned me off. None of this is your fault, I know--but trust me when I say that to most Mac users, the "PC Only" disclaimer is all but meaningless.

Mosca I agree with you totally. Never had any problems with PC only files until a few months ago. People like ChromeCafe started to exe the files instead of zip, which I think is nothing but discrimination. Even if he went back to zips I still won't buy anything from him anymore. Martin was kind enough to make his Mac Converter so all of us could share everything. And there are enough of us Mac people around that we could help with beta testing if that's all that's needed. Vairesh: You know, I have bought 4 or 5 of your hair items but I might not be buying any more because of your atitude. Geez, I'm tired of this crap. Almost makes me want to take my business somewhere else!

the feedback was designed as a tool to let the vendor know of any problems. there was a thread about this before, and i'll say the same thing i said then: you won't see nike saying "buy our product even though it gives you blisters, blah blah" or ANY other company advertising their flaws. (if you have something negative to say about a product and you want to let everyone else know out of concern and not spite, and if the vendor doesn't help you to resolve the problem, an easy way to do this is make a picture using the item, then post in the gallery, explaining the problem. a picture, after all, says a thousand words, right?) of course you won't see a vendor posting a negative remark... if i ever got one, i wouldn't either. that's just bad business! especially when y'all know yourselves, there are store trolls just as there are gallery trolls. don't misunderstand me here, i'm not saying anyone that's posted above is a troll, i'm just saying that there are trolls out there who love to bash someone - anyone. if this sounds harsh, then i apologise sincerely... my customers are happy, and i do everything i can to keep them that way. i have one beta tester that runs a mac, which is why i put my items as "pc/mac"... but saying that even though it says "pc only" it should work is like saying a dvd should work in a vcr :) if you see the pc only, and still buy it for your mac, then you are taking your chances. and i do agree, pilothugh, that they should all be .zips not .exe's... and i agree, martin was awesome to share the converter with everyone! oh, and those products with no feedback... i've got some of those too, and it's not because the item isn't good, or whatnot, it's just that it takes time for a person to leave feedback, and a lot of people have so little time. i admit i have a lot of products in the store, with little feedback available. but i get most of my feedback by IM, email, or repeat business.

If feedback is a tool "to let the vendor know of any problems," then why isn't it internal? Why do any responses appear with the product, positive or negative? It's not "feedback"--it's just advertising, as I said before. As you apparently agree, Styxx--after all, "you won't see nike saying 'buy our product even though it gives you blisters, blah blah'." So if it's advertising, let's call it that; I was naive enought to think that all the "feedback" reponses posted automatically--had to actually try to post one before it became apparent that the vendor could weed out any they didn't like. It's dishonest (as Nike advertising that doesn't say anything about 12-year-olds in sweatshops is dishonest), and a disservice to potential buyers. I'm not saying a product marked "PC Only" should work on a Mac. I'm saying it's an act of faith every time I buy or download a product (except those few available specifically in Mac format), that I'll be able to convert it and use it. It would be helpful to know that other mac users had run into problems with a specific marketplace item, such as the Vairesh hair. It's great that you beta test for mac use, wish more vendors would. A picture posted in the gallery goes away, as would a post in a forum such as this one. I think a responsible vendor would want to include disclaimers like "really doesn't work on a Mac," to avoid problems with future customers.

i do agree that if the product won't work well on a mac, then it should say so in the description. the same way we let ppl know they need posette or vickie, or a certain clothing pack, et cetera. the feedback really is a tool, but it's secondary function is to let the consumer know that yes, others have purchased and yes, are satisfied with the item. if those who leave feedback are saying they are not satisfied, then it lets the vendor know there are specific issues, and lets him/her rectify it asap. once the problem is fixed, the negative feedback becomes a non-issue. hence, it doesn't need to be publicized. it seems so logical to me. yes, i guess it does have a side benefit of an advert. so does word of mouth advertising, or someone walking down the street with a pack of mcdonald's fries or a can of coke, or anything with a product name on it. these folk don't mean to advertise for the company, but they are. it's not a DISservice to potential buyers when providing as much product information as possible, but a service... my wife recently made a large purchase online. she read the literature available at the site she was purchasing from, read their testimonials. then she went and researched for unsolicited testimonials of this product, found they were positive for the main part, and went ahead with the purchase. (that's the thing too... the feedback left is unsolicited, left by those who felt like sharing their opinion.) people here could do that too. don't just take the word of the vendor, the feedback, or the beta testers' comments. talk to people who've used the product and ask if it's any good or not. of course, any questions could also be directed to the vendor on matters such as mac compatibility, or versatility for use with other characters. i am personally confident enough in my products that i could agree to automatic feedback - i just know it wouldn't work, because instead of contacting the vendor with a legitimate complaint, there would be those who slam certain vendors out of spite. i sell here because i need to, so i can't afford my business to fall off because of some troll. off topic a wee: mosca, i'd always have room for one more tester, since i do only have the one mac tester. IM me if you're interested.

Styxx--your points are valid, though I often find myself wondering how "unsolicited" a lot of the happy camper feedback really is. Seems like the same little network of users often comment (favorably) on each others' work. Trolling is an issue, certainly, though I trust that most potential buyers would be sophisticated enough to see through obvious trolls. I still think that if vendors are to get the benefit of positive feedback as advertising, they ought to also take their lumps with the negative, and let the buyer sort it out. If a vendor's alerted to a specific problem thtough feedback and fixes it, then sure, the negative post could be deleted or remarked on by the vendor--we had a problem but we fixed it. Anyway, I suspect that this thread is now also more trouble than it's worth. IM on the way.