Left Dawn, middle Danielle, right my reworked SP3.

 

I guess now that I already made a new face and some shaders, I can just as well fix the rest.   :-)

1. New custom face morph made with magnets and the morphbrush. Rescaled the head to be larger, the neck to be shorter and the neck-base to be wider.

2. Moved the thigh joints upwards using animateable joints. Smoothed weightmap.

3. Resculpted the shoulders. Fixed the dent and lowered the arm creases. Made the creases point outward instead of inward.

4. Scaled the arms longer and thinner. Straightened the lower arms with a magnet.

5. Rescaled the torso. Shoulders are smaller, breasts lower and waist wider.

6. Rescaled the hip. It's shorter and I added a simple genital using two magnets.

7. Rescaled the legs to be shorter.

8. Rescaled the feet and toes to be larger but shorter.

 

Things still to do:

Rework the ellbows so that they are better centered.

Rework the shin weightmaps so that they don't balloon the thigh that much.

Rework the neck so that it doesn't get longer when the head is bent.

Rework the foot weightmaps to get a nicer shape when the foot is bent.

 

Thanks for looking.

:-)

This is such beautiful work! Lovely face and lovely shape!

Dude, you should sell some of the morphs you make.

very nice, subtle changes but all together they look quite nice

Now that is good work! 

Maybe unsquare the breasts a bit on the bottom?  I suppose an argument can be made that breasts are naturally square-shaped sometimes. 

two times.  Two times.

Another thing I noticed on Dawn that could really use some work are her ears. She seems to have V1-V3's "LOL-ears", as in, when I look at ears modeled that way on a professionally-produced figure, I LOL IRL. Dawn is free, so she gets a partial pass - only partial because she is supposed to compete with commercial figures, yet her ears are way behind the current DAZ quality by 3 generations (V4 - G1 - G2).

That being said, she is definitely in the Apollo range of quality. Remember that people gladly paid $100 for Apollo at one point, for good reason :)

Looks very nice!

very good work!

Very nice Joe. 

If that were the base we'd have a winner. 

You planning to share?

 

~Shane

good stuff, dude!

Wonderful work. Major upgrade!

I'd maybe add a little more fat on the interior thigh. I agree with the other post that the ears need a bit of work. They need to be flatter to the head. Her shinbone is a little too pronounced, too (as is the original). Dawn's original neck ligaments are too pronounced, too. I can't tell if you got rid of that or not.

Anyway, really, really good.

I would love to see more! I was interested in the V6 one you showed earlier but since I'm not going to spend money on getting V6 (nor can I run DS on my machine), I am much more interested in this because I'm a Dawn developer.

Many thanks for the kind words.

Here is a quick beauty render.

:-)

Killer

 

Danielle likes her new thigh-joints.

;-)

Really great work here!!!

Amazing powers of observation together with unsurpassed skill. Stunning work.

Very VERY nice! I liked the original Dawn fine, but this is even better!

Your work is amazing but SP3, the prototype of sorts, is still the the best, so why bother stretching and morphing the others to resemble her? No, I don't own Daz, lol, and I'm not being 'snarky' but am truly curious about this. For instance, I've always loved how you did the Aneta model from 3sdk, taking a generic 3d character and imbueing it with some true life. That I get lol.

Thanks again.

I wouldn't mind sharing her, but honestly said, I don't have a clue how to get Danielle out of Dawn.

Right now Danielle is:

1. A head/neck morph

2. Lots of scaling everywhere

3. Animated joint centers for the hip and eyeballs

4. ERC controlled shoulder morphs

It must be ten years since I made my last injection pose, so I wouldn't know where to start, especially with the ERC stuff.

And honestly, I'm not looking forward spending hours fiddling and testing injection poses for a freebie. Way too much other stuff to do.

Soo, if someone else would volunteer to turn her into a "legal" injection pose, I happily share fame and fortune with him or her.

:-)

OTOH, if HiveWire allowed RTE encoded redistribution like DAZ does, I wouldn't mind to simply encode the cr2 as it is and put it up for download.

But someone would have to ask them first.

@Santel:

Same reason I sometimes make make stuff for Posette or Don or M2:

See if I can do it. And every mesh has some features I can learn from, and if needed, can copy for my own figures.

:-)

Wow! That is a huge improvement on the original. Nice work!

I've said it before and I'll say it again...

You do awesome work, Joe.  

A major, major talent.  

 

Thanks for the beauty renders. I'm probably insane but I kinda see a bit of a Lady GaGa thing going there, r.e. her nude campaign. And at least this one isn't tatted up like a sailor. Keep it up!

Nicely done Sir Joe!

this may be a dumb question but..  when you say animated on the thigh joints does that simply refer to them being moved from their default location or do they actually move depending on the rotations of the joint?

Also just an observation, it would seem to me that what is listed would be fairly easy to be picked up by conforming clothing.  The morphs would have to be matched of course, but the scaling, animated joints and ERC shouldn't pose much for problems for a 'load & pose' kind of user.  would that be fair to say?

Yes, the thigh and eye centers are just moved to a different location. They are not ERC'd to the joint rotations.

Joint movement through the animate offset dials can be picked up by the clothing. Moving their default positions in the joint editor can't.

The scaling and animated joints would transfer automatically in Poser 9 onwards as long as all boxes are ticked in the clothings body actor.

The new shoulder morphs would have to be transferred via:

Figure--> Copy morph from...

..using Danielle as the donor.

How well that works depends on the clothing. Skin tight clothing should look pretty good, but loose clothing may deform funny.

Alternatively you could simply un-dial the shoulder ERC to get back to the original shoulder shape.

 

 

 

ahh thanks I get it now.  I was tring to figure out why they were animated if they were basically static after having been moved..  Always lots to learn.

Quote - Yes, the thigh and eye centers are just moved to a different location. They are not ERC'd to the joint rotations.

Joint movement through the animate offset dials can be picked up by the clothing. Moving their default positions in the joint editor can't.

The scaling and animated joints would transfer automatically in Poser 9 onwards as long as all boxes are ticked in the clothings body actor.

The new shoulder morphs would have to be transferred via:

Figure--> Copy morph from...

..using Danielle as the donor.

How well that works depends on the clothing. Skin tight clothing should look pretty good, but loose clothing may deform funny.

Alternatively you could simply un-dial the shoulder ERC to get back to the original shoulder shape.

 

 

Quote - 1. New custom face morph made with magnets and the morphbrush. Rescaled the head to be larger, the neck to be shorter and the neck-base to be wider.

1. Moved the thigh joints upwards using animateable joints. Smoothed weightmap.

2. Resculpted the shoulders. Fixed the dent and lowered the arm creases. Made the creases point outward instead of inward.

3. Scaled the arms longer and thinner. Straightened the lower arms with a magnet.

4. Rescaled the torso. Shoulders are smaller, breasts lower and waist wider.

5. Rescaled the hip. It's shorter and I added a simple genital using two magnets.

6. Rescaled the legs to be shorter.

7. Rescaled the feet and toes to be larger but shorter.

 

Things still to do:

Rework the ellbows so that they are better centered.

Rework the shin weightmaps so that they don't balloon the thigh that much.

Rework the neck so that it doesn't get longer when the head is bent.

Rework the foot weightmaps to get a nicer shape when the foot is bent.

sigh

You know, always when I read something like that, and see the improvements made, I wonder why the heck these fixes aren't done by the creators themselves. Shouldn't be that in their own interest?

Anyway, excellent work. 

 

Quote - sigh

You know, always when I read something like that, and see the improvements made, I wonder why the heck these fixes aren't done by the creators themselves. Shouldn't be that in their own interest?

Anyway, excellent work. 

 

I would imagine the creators were making other fixes to all sorts of things right up to the last moment before release, these ones just weren't on their to do list for whatever reason.

It's often a lot easier to step in as a critic and identify things which need fixing than it is for the original creator to spot them. Remember that the creator has watched her improve steadily for ages (she's a lot better than she once was, and she might already be better than he envisaged her) and it can be hard to see past that progress and see how much better she could still become.

Fresh eyes are the most critical because there's no attachment to the process that has gone before, much more cold objectivity, which is often exactly what a project like this needs.

I hope the creators can somehow incorporate Joe's excellent refinements into the base figure, (rather than letting half a dozen 'fix' packs appear to spoil the idea of her being a solid, clean slate) it would give Dawn a boost right now when it counts most.

Quote - I hope the creators can somehow incorporate Joe's excellent refinements into the base figure, (rather than letting half a dozen 'fix' packs appear to spoil the idea of her being a solid, clean slate) it would give Dawn a boost right now when it counts most.

A World of this.

So Joe, have you tried showing your fixes to Hivewire 3D to see what they have to say?

Quote - > Quote - sigh

You know, always when I read something like that, and see the improvements made, I wonder why the heck these fixes aren't done by the creators themselves. Shouldn't be that in their own interest?

Anyway, excellent work. 

 

I would imagine the creators were making other fixes to all sorts of things right up to the last moment before release, these ones just weren't on their to do list for whatever reason.

It's often a lot easier to step in as a critic and identify things which need fixing than it is for the original creator to spot them. Remember that the creator has watched her improve steadily for ages (she's a lot better than she once was, and she might already be better than he envisaged her) and it can be hard to see past that progress and see how much better she could still become.

Fresh eyes are the most critical because there's no attachment to the process that has gone before, much more cold objectivity, which is often exactly what a project like this needs.

I hope the creators can somehow incorporate Joe's excellent refinements into the base figure, (rather than letting half a dozen 'fix' packs appear to spoil the idea of her being a solid, clean slate) it would give Dawn a boost right now when it counts most.

yeah - let's hope that.  DAZ never cared to fix their crippled V4.

Actually, there were at least two attempts to fix V4. I have version V4.1 and V4.2 in my runtime.

The concern for me if HW3D was to start adding fixes is the affect on content creatio and therefor adoption.  If they just go ahead and ninja fix something then they are going to damage their relationship with content creators.  If they give advance notice of a fix its basically pulling the e-break on all content creation until the fix goes 'live' either way.. I dont think a new figure can afford to take any hits to content volume.  Though I do agree that sooner would be better than later if they are going to make any official alterations that will affect content

Quote - The concern for me if HW3D was to start adding fixes is the affect on content creatio and therefor adoption. 

I agree, but there isn't really a way around it. If the general consensus is that Dawn could be significantly improved by certain basic fixes, then the best thing is for HW3D to incorporate them directly, and soon.

Otherwise they will emerge as add-on fix packs, and then content creators have to decide which, if any, they design around, or they design for the unfixed base figure and hope that add-on fixes to the figure don't screw up clothing fits. And customers don't know which add-ons are going to screw up which clothing, so everybody is a bit hesitant about everything.

I think that most vendors would want Dawn to be the best she can be, it'll widen her appeal and improve content sales. If HW3D released an update I think most vendors would see the justification, even if it meant having to check products already in the marketplace and make adjustments where necessary.

Quote - Actually, there were at least two attempts to fix V4. I have version V4.1 and V4.2 in my runtime.

you name it: attempts. the real fixes you don't even find in their market place.

dunno, didn't HW3D promise a "supa dupa" figure?

obviously she isn't quite yet. 

hope, they already have a Dawn 2 in the works.

Very very nice, Joe! Very nice. Thanks for showing :)

Soo, thanks to WandW contacting HiveWire, there is now a possibility to distribute Danielle.

But, as I said before, I can't do this alone.

RTE-encoding is not allowed, but I'm allowed to send one copy of the Danielle cr2 to someone who is willing to turn her into a legally distributeable injection file.

 

That person needs to be able to turn Danielle's:

Head,neck,arm and genital morphs...

Her ERC shoulder fixes...

The new scaling...

The new animated joint centers of her thigh/hip joints...

The edited thigh bend weightmaps...

...into an injectable file that can be re-distributed.

 

Please contact me only if you are sure you can do all those things, as I won't be able to help you in any way, shape or form !

I'll send you the cr2, you'll do the rest and you can happily take all of the credit.

Due to my health the energy I have for doing Poser work is limited so I can't spare the time to re-learn all the stuff needed to do this myself. But this shouldn't be a problem for a seasoned merchant or advanced user to do who knows his/her way around a cr2 file.

So, that's my offer.

Any takers ?

:-)

 

 

 

She looks wonderful!

I hope some knowledgeable person jumps in ...

bbbbbbbuump

 

Would the injections also work in Daz?

The biggest issue I see with this, is that these are not technically fixes. They are mods.

Fixes have to work the same in Both Poser and Studio, or it sort of defeats the purpose of a character that can share content between apps. Mods on the other hand, only have to work in the intended application. (I am not saying that they would not work, just pointing the differences out.)

I would not be that hard to make these distributable, but to do it right you may need more than an injection. Injections can not remove things, just add them. I am not certain how Poser deals with non used weight maps on a character save, I would have to look into that. Maybe if the map names were the same it would just over write them.

There may be another route. And that would be to put all of this into a body suit (or possibly a Dev rig if Hivewire3d agreed to it), then give that away as a freebie. If you did it that way, the joint information from the suit could be copied back into Dawn by the user.

Other than that, I would have to see what the differences are between the Default Dawn, and what you have come up with. If you know how to pack up the differences, there is nothing stopping you from distibuting the new information. The differences would not have anything from Dawn in them at all.

That is how we did Victoria 4~WM. Only the differences are in the distributed file.

Dawn is a little different, because she is already weight mapped. A new script might need to be made to deal with the old maps and other things. (again, I am not to sure how Poser handles that on a character save. I have not gotten that far yet.)

If you can only send it to one person, you are sort of stuck. I too have re mapped versions with added bones, a lot of morphs, cr2 changes, etc, just for Poser. And I am currently looking into the best way to distribute it without causing a copyright issue.

In the end, whatever anyone comes up with should be ok'd by Hivewire3D not only for copright issues, but because it is the right thing to do.

That's some damn good re-working of Dawn!

"Fixes have to work the same in Both Poser and Studio, or it sort of defeats the purpose of a character that can share content between apps." Such fixes are not possible, as the rigging engines of both Poser and Studio have drifted apart a long time ago. To make a figure work in both Poser and Studio, you either have to use an elaborate converter software like the DSON exporter, or you have to "simplify" the rigging to a point of basic functionality. Now Genesis went the first way, which has still problems, and Dawn went the other way, which has problems, too. "Fixing" Dawn by adding more "sophisticated" Poser rigging means "breaking" her for Studio. (And OTOH adding more "sophisticated" Studio functionality, would mean you'd need DSON exporting software for use in Poser, like Genesis does.) My point is, you can't have your cake and eat it too ! If you want better bending in Poser, you have to give up "easy" Studio conversion. If you want "easy" Poser/Studio conversion, your figure will bend not as good in Poser as it could. As I said, Poser and Studio are simply technically too far apart from each other. There is no "magic rigging" that works equally well in both. (Actually, there never was, as even V4 bends better in Studio than in Poser, and has to use a lot of cludges to bend "reasonably well" in Poser.) So my intention was too improve the Poser rigging for Dawn, but I'm fully aware that that might spoil her Studio rigging. I'm not allowed to simply RTE-encode and distribute her as I did with V3WM and D3WM, and I also can't wrap my poor brain around (re-)learning all the techie stuff necessary to make a "properly legal" injection-python-readscript-outfitter-whatever file that can carry all the mods and fixes I made, so I guess we're stuck here for now. So off to storage on one of my external hard-drives she goes then. Wouldn't have minded sharing her, but I don't have the energy to jump through lots of hoops just to distribute a freebie. Still, thanks again for the kind words, everybody.

I thought from the first that the basic idea of Dawn was okay, one for Poser, another for ds, supposedly able to share the same clothing.  Good idea, but considering the two are drifting in different directions in their tech, it may be a good idea that will go nowhere because it's basically impossible.  

It sounds like hivewire is being very restrictive, fine, when it turns belly up, no big deal, it's their own doing.  The promo's they showed were nice, but when you get the figure, nice describes none of it.

But, if you want to fix the figure for Poser, I think it's probably wisest to accept that will break it for ds, and vice-versa.  The dawn figure needs all the help it can get, plus a little and it looks like you've addressed a lot of the needs.  Nice work.

Doric

She looks awesome Joe.  Hope that someone with knowledge for Poser and DS can make this happen for both camps.  I'm  a DS user but have no knowledge of distributing fixes and mods like this!  Otherwise I'd offer to help!