Thanks Erik.

My pleasure Doc : )

Another picture using something from GrabCAD:

Didn't bother to put any textures on it, I just was curious how it would render as plain geometry.

Here's the full-sized version:

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/media/folder_247/file_2466978.jpg

Cheers!

Erik

That is a very interesting render!Nice materials too.

Thanks Doc!

In the mean time I've found a MUCH better Oblivion-copter model!

It's taking me more time than I like to re-assemble and scale it in the 3D modeler I use (Autodesk Inventor), so I can pose it the way I want it, and do some other modifications. When ready I' ll turn it into an OBJ so it can be imported it into DAZ Studio to have some fun with it : )

Cheers!

Erik

It's been a good year for Sci-Fi! Oblivion was much better than I had anticipated, and just watched the newish Star Trek. All these freebies and new gadgets that have come out in their 3D counterparts finally look familiar! 

Looking forward to that copter, Erik!! 

Hmmm, just looked up some images of that thing, apparently "Bubble Ship" is it's proper name. That's a really cool looking machine!

On second thought maybe I'll just start from scratch with my own 3D version if I want to end up with something that more closely resembles the one from the movie (haven't seen it by the way).

Reality/LuxRender was behaving badly yesterday when I tried a test render of my new prototype: some parts rendered pitch black or without any colour. Also the saved material properties turned out to be a mess. When I started a second attempt other parts were black, and the black ones from the first render had their proper material. Never had that happen before, Strange.....

Cheers!

Erik

If that's the new LuxRender 1.3RC1, apparently there are some issues.

No, I used the most recent stable one, version 1.2.1 I think it is.

I've tried the latest 1.3 beta last week, but with disastrous results so I won't touch that one again. It seems last night something went awry between Reality (latest Windows/DAZ Studio version) and LuxRender, but I haven't had the time to find out what exactly. Tonigh I'll try again, see what happens. 

Cheers!

Erik

Erik. Check the direction of your normals. If they are not all pointing consistently in the same direction some of the polys will render black.

Quote - Erik. Check the direction of your normals. If they are not all pointing consistently in the same direction some of the polys will render black.

That's the first thing that came to my mind too, but how can it be that one (intire) object is black in the first render, another part looks normal, and in the next render it's the other way around?

Besides, when converting my STL's exported from Inventor in MeshLab I (almost) always let MeshLab 'reorient all faces coherently' (if possible), and then 'invert face orientation' twice to see if everything is ok before exporting as OBJ.

Also, some of the affected objects were subsequently decimated in ZBrush, others weren't, so that also didn't lead to any plausible explanation.

Just before these render mishaps I repeatedly had an NVidea driver 'incident' because I was oveloading DAZ Studio with geometry (kind of a torture test). But I cold-rebooted my PC after each crash, so this shouldn't (ahem, well...) have anything to do with the LuxRender f-u-ps I had later. Hmmm, could be a torture-test related thermal issue with the video card, but that's not very likely, it had more than enough time to cool down.

I'll clear all Reality and LuxRender data for this job, and try it once more. See what happens.

Cheers!

Erik

Erik, software doesn't change behavior randomly. I know that some times it might seem like that but it isn't. 

If you have good rendering with other objects and you new model doesn't render correctly then you have to look at the geometry. You can also restart LuxRender with the debug option active and see if it reports inconsistent normals in the log. If it does then you do have vertex normals that point to the wrong direction.

Cheers.

Quote - Erik, software doesn't change behavior randomly. I know that some times it might seem like that but it isn't. 

If you have good rendering with other objects and you new model doesn't render correctly then you have to look at the geometry. You can also restart LuxRender with the debug option active and see if it reports inconsistent normals in the log. If it does then you do have vertex normals that point to the wrong direction.

Cheers.

I know, I know, that's what I like about working with computers ; )

I think it's a name-thing.

Just had a look in the directory where I stored the Reality material settings, and there are just two materials stored for the entire vehicle: 'material_0.rsf' and 'default.rsf'.

That's definitely not okay, but I'll have to dig deeper to find out what went wrong here.

Again, I haven't seen this before, but it even so could well be a user error.

I would seriously stink as a computer, so much is certain : D

Cheers!

Erik

How on earth do I change that 'default' and/or 'material_0' name for each object in DAZ Studio's Surfaces tab? Never had to do that before, but now it seems that I must to make this thing render properly. But how?

Erik

Looks like I'll have to manually edit those .obj's to add a material (.mtl) file reference line, and then declare an appropriate material name in that .mtl file. It doesn't seem possible in DAZ Studio itself. Sh*t!

Erik

You could rename the materials in Polygon Group Editor Tool (I think).

Quote - Looks like I'll have to manually edit those .obj's to add a material (.mtl) file reference line, and then declare an appropriate material name in that .mtl file. It doesn't seem possible in DAZ Studio itself. Sh*t!

That can be easily done in Blender. I know, if you don't know how to use Blender it can be daunting but, on the other hand, you have is a good motivation now :)

Quote - > Quote - Looks like I'll have to manually edit those .obj's to add a material (.mtl) file reference line, and then declare an appropriate material name in that .mtl file. It doesn't seem possible in DAZ Studio itself. Sh*t!

That can be easily done in Blender. I know, if you don't know how to use Blender it can be daunting but, on the other hand, you have is a good motivation now :)

HAHAHAHAHA! That's all I needed : D

I've bought a few tutorial DVD's from the Blender Foundation to make/motivate myself to put some effort in it, but I still haven't seriously started. But that's partly because I also needed to quickly learn Sketchup and Rhino and T-Splines and ZBrush and PhotoScan and DAZ Studio and TopoGun, AND I wanted to become really 'fluent' with Inventor : ) It's no excuse, I know, but it's been all a bit much for my rapidly decaying 1960's brain.

Hey Doc, thanks for the tip! Changing the surface names in that Polygon Group Editor seems to work, but I haven't tested the effect on Reality/LuxRender yet. Fingers crossed!

Cheers!

Erik

Renamed all surfaces with unique labels using DAZ Studio's Polygon Editor.

Rendering now.

Things seem to have improved, but I've still got eight items that remain black, in spite of being present in the .rsf directory with correct data after saving them. All of them are supposed to be a metal of some pre-set type. Other metallic surfaces do render correctly, as do the glossy surfaces. As before I see nothing wrong with Victoria 6 in her space-suit, the errors are only in the flying contraption bits.

Erik

Here's a first impression of that better 'Bubble Ship' model I told you about:

a link to the full-sized image:

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/media/folder_247/file_2467340.jpg

It didn't spend much time yet in LuxRender, but you can see it is seriously better than the first model. This one is also a freebee from GrabCAD, but unfortunately I am not allowed to give you a link to it here on Rendo.

Still can't see what causes those black bits though, the logic behind it escapes me at the moment.

Cheers!

Erik

Interesting model!

It's a good starting point to say the least!

I've already done some simple modifications to it, but now that I've seen some pictures of the 'real' thing I know there's a lot more that can be done to improve it. That will take some time of course. Still, if my modified version is based on this one I cannot give it away to anyone (through GrabCAD) without approval of its creator. We'll see how it goes. First I need to solve my render issues.

Cheers!

Erik

Dawn on sofa

Daz Studio 4.6 / LuxRender via Reality 2.5

Peace /

dpm316

Still having problems rendering that Bubble Ship : (

I replaced some of the offending parts with new ones (even though there was nothing wrong with the old ones), went through the usual procedure again, but no luck; still black.

Everything about these parts looks okay in Reality, as do the saved material files. Also LuxRender doesn't rapport any problems in the console when loading the job, there's nothing that appears to point in the direction of the cause.

Second test render with replaced (decimated in ZBrush) parts:

link to the full-sized image:

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/media/folder_247/file_2467679.jpg

Any clues anyone?

Cheers!

Erik

Can you post the full configuration for one of the materials?

Quote - Can you post the full configuration for one of the materials?

Sure Paolo, but I'm at work right now and it's eight a clock in the morning overhere.

So it'll take a while before I have access to those files again.

Of course there has to be a completely logical explanation, but I think I've eliminated all the 'usual suspects'. One thing I haven't done yet is to start a completey new DAZ project. Everything seems to point in the direction of the 'handing over' of the material data from Reality to LuxRender, but even so it could well be that that has nothing to do with it.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Cheers!

Erik

Attached Link: http://bobvan.deviantart.com/art/2-396696972

A Render

Quote - Can you post the full configuration for one of the materials?

Lets see if this works:

This is the .rsf data of one of the front legs, I removed the xml code so this forum html doesn't get confused.

I wanted to render it as nicely polished chrome.

Key="Reality.major.number" 2

Key="Reality.minor.number" 0

Key="bumpMapGain" 1

Key="bumpMapStrength" 1

Key="bumpMapNegative" -0.001

Key="bumpMapPositive" 0.001

Key="bumpMapUTile" 1

Key="bumpMapVTile" 1

Key="normalMapFlag" 0

Key="subdivision" 0

Key="subdSharpEdges" 0

Key="useMicrofacets" 0

Key="isSmooth" 1

Key="displacementStrength" 0

Key="displacementNegative" -0.0001

Key="displacementPositive" 0.0001

Key="displacementGain" 1

Key="displacementUTile" 1

Key="displacementVTile" 1

Key="alphaMapGain" 1

Key="alphaMapUTile" 1

Key="alphaMapVTile" 1

Key="alphaStrength" 1

Key="reflectionColor" #dcdcdc

Key="metalPreset" CHROME

Key="hRoughness" 9700

Key="vRoughness" 9700

Key="isCustomMetal" 0

Key="materialType" 80

Is this okay?

Cheers!

Erik

Yes, it helps. Have you tried to change the material to Matte and see if it works?

Quote - Yes, it helps. Have you tried to change the material to Matte and see if it works?

I just got home from work, so haven't done anything 'Dazzy' yet.

The affected surfaces all are some kind of (bog standard) metal, changing that might give kind of a clue.

Perhaps the smartest thing to do at this point is to start all over with a new, empty DAZ Studio project. There just might be some corrupted data lurking in the existing one some way or the other. Again, see what happens.

Cheers!

Erik

Hi Erik.

The simplest thing is to change the material to Matte and set the Diffuse color to White.

See if that works before doing something drastic.

Cheers.

Quote - Hi Erik.

The simplest thing is to change the material to Matte and set the Diffuse color to White.

See if that works before doing something drastic.

Cheers.

Squeezed a render in just before dinner, made all offending parts matte white, and they render fine (in white). So I'd say there's nothing wrong with the geometry itself.

But what is it then?

Could it be my graphics adapter is broken or overheating?

Does LuxRender use it in a different way for metallic surfaces compared to glossy and/or matte surfaces?

Erik

Turned all previously offending surfaces into metal again (chrome, titanium, aluminium), and guess what? Black.

Please note however that not ALL metallic surfaces render as black, only SOME specific surfaces do. For instance inside the cockpit there's a platform and a centre console that are custom coloured metal, and they render fine. The pedals however should be the exact same material, and they consistently render black.

The rear leg is a bit odd: at first it rendered fine as metal, then I replaced it with a decimated version and it became also black. But other parts that I replaced with decimated versions still render fine, so that replacement itself appears to be unrelated.

Mistery, mistery.....

Erik

edit: I was too quick! the pedals now render metallic green as they should, this time they are NOT black. The legs, cockpit frame and cannon still are black though.

Hey, found it!

Well, not the cause, but the effect.

The .ply's in the Resources/objects folder of all black parts have their normals inverted.

When I re-invert those normals using MeshLab, and replace those .ply's before restarting LuxRender, they appear to render fine (I've only just restarted LuxRender, so I'll have to wait a bit to see if indeed all goes well).

So it looks like either Reality or LuxRender f's-up the conversion of the original .obj's to .ply files for these particular parts. But why?????

What I have now is a workaround, not a solution or a method to prevent it from happening again. But it's a step forward.

Cheers!

Erik

My workaround didn't bring the result I was hoping for; black streaks remained visible in the metallic surfaces. Since that looked much like a dead end I started a new, empty DAZ scene, and one by one imported the .obj's again. After assembling the craft and editing the surface names for all the parts in the Polygon Editor, I set up an all new render job in Reality. This time I selected 'Lux native' for the geometry, thinking that could only be a good thing. Lux started rendering, and to my utter disappointment the same parts came out black again. So I'm done with this, its not going to work, period.

Never had this happen before, hope I'll never have to waste so much time on it again.

Cheers! (well, actually not)

Erik

It has been awhile.

Recruitment Day

Nice one Doc! Lots and lots of detail (as usual).

I have to apologize to Paolo for blaming Reality and/or LuxRender for the troubles I've had with that Bubble Ship. Of course I couldn't let it rest, and just now I've found it's DAZ Studio that can do strange things to the .obj's you load in it. Actually just to be sure it wasn't that, I exported those parts that rendered black from DAZ Studio and opened them in MeshLab. Huh? Black??? indeed, inverted normals. SH*******T!

I then flipped the normals of those parts in MeshLab, reloaded them, and started a new render. BINGO! Nicely rendered surfaces for all parts.

There was more damage done to those parts other than inverted normals, but they were fine according to both MeshLab, NetFabb Studio and ZBrush before I loaded them into DAZ Studio! I don't know what DAZ Studio does to imported obj's, but it's not always for the best. Lesson learned!

Cheers!

Erik

Hey, good sleuthing there Erik. Inverted normals can sneak in easily. 

Glad that you have found the solution.

Quote - Hey, good sleuthing there Erik. Inverted normals can sneak in easily. 

Glad that you have found the solution.

Sorry Paolo, I simply never expected DAZ Studio to do that kind of sneaking.

Things look a LOT better now:

Time to start working on some improvements/detailing : )

Cheers!

Erik

Another test render, now that it works : )

The light's a bit dull, and some of the materials in the scene need adjustment, but it turned out nice enough for a first try.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/media/folder_247/file_2468575.jpg

Cheers!

Erik

In science fiction movies you never see the heroes do simple maintenance jobs. But those fancy flying machines get dirty too, and who's gonna to scrub those dead bugs from the windscreen if they don't do it themself?

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/media/folder_247/file_2468824.jpg

Cheers!

Erik

It doesn't need cleaning, they are self-cleaning :) Glad to see you solved the issues, great render!

Just staying in shape. My first use with Swidhelm's 'Hunter' (a.k.a. Predator) figure.

(medium gore warning) http://fav.me/d6l08ks

Edit: The is scale accurate, by the way just in a rather massive warehouse set that I'd planned to use in a slightly different shot. The light came out pretty nice on this test render, so I kept it ;-)  

It's a good thing that it is still daylight, otherwise I might have had a few nightmares. Very good!

I would have posted a preview image Doc, but I'm thinking the mods might not appreciate some of the 'visual' elements. The next will be toned down, as it bothered me a bit too. Weird, huh! 

A toned down version may not be as realistic (pardon the pun).

Well Doc, here's that 'toned down' character test. Can't wait to get to work on some AVP-style mayhem! Forgive the background prop. A quickly textured stand-in for something better =D 

http://fav.me/d6l9jpe

I prefer the original :)

I think Act III will be more to your approval, doc

Haven't been getting notifications again

I see some nice work has been posted 

Just added Raiya's new Daphne texture to my Victoria 6 skin catalog here on Rendo (and on DA)

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=2470122

This series makes it easy to quickly compare different textures on the same body with all render settings kept identical. Of course those settings are only a starting point, but they generally look nice already.

Cheers!

Erik