"Try doing that with your DAZ Runtime and you'll find, for example, that even though there are masses of Victoria 4 morphs out there, the majority of them still look like Victoria 4.  It's an inherent side-effect of using the same geometry time and time again."

Ummm...not quite..below is all the same mesh. I doubt they look the same. I could add the females to the list and toons which are also built on that same mesh, but you get the point.

http://www.daz3d.com/michael-5

http://www.daz3d.com/freak-5

http://www.daz3d.com/creatures/infernal-behemoth

"Well, I AM paying for the demands I place on a vendor. Now if they don't think what i pay is worth it, nothing I can do"

Indeed there is not
but it is not  fair or logical to buy (or even complain) about something that was not intended  for or advertised as being compatible with my software or system ,in the first place, and then make "demands"based on the fact that I am willing to pay for it.

"But if I had to buy a pair of pants from a tailor made for a person a size smaller than me, then I had to alter to pants to fit me, I probably wouldn't buy pants from that tailor very long."

Look at your own example sir.

Be an educated consumer
if said tailor simply lied and claimed he had the item in your
size and sold you an article of clothing that did not fit,  that his his fault& deception,

If you walk into a store that advertises*" we only sell jeans in size 32 waist"* ,,yes they may only be able to sell jeans to a certain limited market,but those of greater girth have been informed of the "Compatibility" of the store's products.

Cheers

I can never understand Male_M3dia's claim that porting "Dawnish" characters from Poser to Daz is double work! That is totally wrong. A simple export import brings along all the morphs. If it was difficult how come Hivewire can offer conversion to Daz as a service so cheap that it is practically free? Furthermore, it is also trivial to transfer your work to V6, (thought obviously HW won't help you with that ;) And remember, it is the textures and maps that is the bear part of the work! The situation being what it is, no baking in Poser, makes that you as a vendor should avoid using Poser shaders. That is all precautions you need to take.

Contrary to him I believe that it is the Dawnish characters that are the future for Poser.

Quote -  

You've never had it so good, you have Poser figures that have weight mapped morphs and dynamics for crying out loud - you even have total control over joint driven morphs.  People need to stop whining and start learning the technology that is already at their disposal in Poser.  You can already do anything you will ever need to do with a figure in Poser if you learn how it works.  And as long as Smith Micro keep up the characters and add the right features to Poser - I really don't see a problem.

I can't remember who said it, or even which thread it was in, but I agree the best way forward for vendors is to start supporting the characters that come with each new release of Poser (it makes perfect sense).  Roxie is a perfect example of that, she's a nice mesh with 'character', yet there's like a million outfits for V4 and Genesis and a lot of them still look like V4 or Genesis.

What about Roxie, Rex, Miku?

I think the market pretty much determined their fate a few months after their release.  I'm sure we could argue over figure x is better than figure y, but ultimately the market will decide if a figure has the features it needs to switch over and support. Then you'll see that reflected in the various market places by products created by vendors. So really you can see where those Poser figures stand in relation to other figures by vendors supporting them with content, because that's what the market wants.

Quote - I can never understand Male_M3dia's claim that porting "Dawnish" characters from Poser to Daz is double work! That is totally wrong. A simple export import brings along all the morphs. If it was difficult how come Hivewire can offer conversion to Daz as a service so cheap that it is practically free? Furthermore, it is also trivial to transfer your work to V6, (thought obviously HW won't help you with that ;) And remember, it is the textures and maps that is the bear part of the work! The situation being what it is, no baking in Poser, makes that you as a vendor should avoid using Poser shaders. That is all precautions you need to take.

Contrary to him I believe that it is the Dawnish characters that are the future for Poser.

Ok, so if it is so easy, why haven't more vendors done it?

What happens when your character has scaling, adjusted rigging, and added JCMs? A simple export may work if you're just turning dials, but yes you do have to do some work once those characters start getting complicated. If you make something for both platforms, you want to make sure that your product works well in both and most times that involves way more than simple exports. If you do simple that's precisely what you're going to give your customers.. and they'll go to someone else that gives them great products.

Whatever you say Male_M3dia, doesn't matter because I know that I can do it. In fact I have already done it. If other vendors can't make it so much better for me. I know what I can do and not do for a painless transfer. If that means sometimes that functionality will be a little less in Daz so be it, because I want my customers to buy for fashion and design, for the art, and not functionality.

When backing off, and looking at it from a distance.

The Genesis technology is outstanding and offers some real improvements in DS.

However, that DSON thing is a Poser users nightmare, only its mother can love.

• It is utterly resourses hungry and slows Poser down on its knees. (If you get the thing working at all.)
• And you still get only half of the technology to work.

Conclusion / Result?
If you wanna keep your hair?
Gene is DS only.

Or use some hacks like JoePublic does, and live with a 50% result.

I agree with EClark that Poser needs far better figures that come with tons of content at release time.

I also agree that Poser should become more end user friendly and lots of things should/could be automated.

I also agree that the old legacy content is obsolete and should either be repaired, upgraded or dropped completely.

Gene/V5/V6, in its current form with DSON is not an option for Poser.

Dawn, while a good effort, was clearly build for DS and then converted to work (and let us leave it at that) in Poser.

Final.

Neither Gene/V5/V6 nor Dawn are a valid alternatives for V4 in Poser.

Rex and Roxie, while the best SM meshes so far, lack their succes because they where not ready at release time, and came with close to no end user usable content at all.

Is Poser a good App?
Certainly, but so is the Gene/V5/V6 -  DS combination.

Happy Posering all.
Tony

Quote - Whatever you say Male_M3dia, doesn't matter because I know that I can do it. In fact I have already done it. If other vendors can't make it so much better for me. I know what I can do and not do for a painless transfer. If that means sometimes that functionality will be a little less in Daz so be it, because I want my customers to buy for fashion and design, for the art, and not functionality.

 

And I find that troubling, because from this and your other comments pertaining the flaws in the wireframe you posted, it seems to imply that you'll quickly put out something that may look good but not function well rather than take the time to make sure that not only it looks good, but functions well for your customers. The thing is, no matter what platform you create for, if you're going to gain customers they'll need to know you're giving them quality products. If you're telling people that you're using tools to quickly create things but not correcting any flaws and then you're creating things for the look but not functionality I would imagine people would be wary about buying your products.

Well it is ok that we differ in opinion just let the market decide. Capitalism and free market have created all the welfare in the world. But you shouldn't come with incorrect information. I may be new in the Poser/Daz world, but I have a long career behind me in computers and I have never experienced a so good amalgamation of two systems before. "This System is Operational" . So let your desinformation rest, will you?

Quote - Well it is ok that we differ in opinion just let the market decide. Capitalism and free market have created all the welfare in the world. But you shouldn't come with incorrect information. I may be new in the Poser/Daz world, but I have a long career behind me in computers and I have never experienced a so good amalgamation of two systems before. "This System is Operational" . So let your desinformation rest, will you?

 

I only quoted what you said, so it's straight from the source. The market will definitely decide. Good luck.

**
@EClark1894**
Good man

And of course, as you're producing for a figure that doesn't suffer from vendor-flooding, you ought to get a fair few sales providing it's good work.

@Zev0
I get the point, but I don't think you got mine.

Those only look different because The Freak, for example, is a massively different morph from Michael 5.  If you look in the online galleries here for example, view a few images containing characters and without reading the description, you'll often be able to tell which is V4, even if it have a very nice, and sometimes very different morph.  Same with Genesis, the DAZ male for example looks very effeminate compared to the Poser males.

Every time I get an marketing email form them I can see that same face no matter what morph it is, and no matter whether it's male or female, you see what I'm getting at here?

Obviously, the Poser figures would suffer exactly the same monotony if every morph produced for their figure was based on the same geometry, and that's my point, with the Poser figures you're looking at individual characters.

It wouldn't matter whether a DAZ vendor chose to vend a monster or a fairy, it's likely the Genesis eyes will be picked-up on the fairy and the Genesis shoulders will be picked up on the monster.  A vendor faced with the same task on a Poser figure has the better option, because unlike the Genesis-based vendor, they have a choice of meshes to start from.  They might chose to create a monster from one of the more brutal looking males, or they might chose to create a pin-up from Roxie.

Which brings me back to the point I made about DAZ and stupidity.

Genesis can morph from a toddler to an adult and even bring the clothes with it.  What sort of policy is that for a company that effectively thrives on vendored content?  DAZ have effectively shot themselves in the foot because although they make a profit out of the shiny new "Genesis", they lose the requirement for what would have been four vendored products to do the same thing.  The toddler, the clothes for the toddler, the adult, and the clothes for the adult.

And here's the gotcha ...

@MaleM3dia
... would you really want an adult to be able to wear a toddlers clothing set?  Of course not, which brings me to my other point, that Genesis is nothing more than a marketing gimick designed to get one over on the Poser users.  It's an overcomplication that will eventually do nothing other than cut their own profits and those of the vendors.  I think Smith Micro should ignore the system entirely and carry on regardless - they don't need it.

My take on it is to ignore Genesis and support the figures that come with your application of choice.  Consumers in general are sheep in that they will flock to wherever they see has a following.  The only reason there's a market for Genesis is because the vendors are passifying it, and without the vendors support, it's pretty much useless.

My advice is to support the Poser figures.  You don't need Genesis, and sooner or later I'm guessing even DAZ in their infinite wisdom will realise they certainly don't need Genesis.  The only thing I'm watching for is how long it will take the big brass over there to realise it.

Sorry, but with enough polygons in the head any figure can look like any other figure.

Attached is a very quick and shoddy Poser "Simon" morph I made for my weightmapped David 3.

It was really just playying around with the morphbrush for 5 minutes.

So if you think all DAZ characters "look the same", the problem is with the people making the morphs, not the figure.

Making a "Simon" or "Rex" clone for Genesis-2 is just as easy as making a Michael 3 or Michael 4 clone is.

And if you use a "Simon for Genesis" clone instead of actual "Simon", you can have the "look" you prefer but still have all the better bending and more efficient meshand instant cloth and texture compatibility of Genesis-2.

**
@Joe**
Agreed, but my point is, that's usually not the case.  I can often tell a V4 a mile off, be it the shoulder, the eyes, the abdomen that gives it away.  Perhaps you're just not as sensitive to it as I am, but I can see it a mile off most times.

It's just a side-effect of if being the same geometry.

I think people will use what ever figure they feel best suits their need. Not everyone wants to use Genesis no matter how good it bends or what it can turn into. V4 could morph into several characters, and yes, scaling was an issue. Using Genesis won't make it any less of one. That sounds like a software issue, as was the animatable joints and subdivision. Content is a third party issue.

I think it's been said rather plainly. The vendors could do it if they want to. They just don't want to because they don't think it's worth the effort.

Quote - @MaleM3dia
... would you really want an adult to be able to wear a toddlers clothing set?

If I'm doing a college halloween party scene, why not? ;)

Quote -   Of course not, which brings me to my other point, that Genesis is nothing more than a marketing gimick designed to get one over on the Poser users.  It's an overcomplication that will eventually do nothing other than cut their own profits and those of the vendors.  I think Smith Micro should ignore the system entirely and carry on regardless - they don't need it.

My take on it is to ignore Genesis and support the figures that come with your application of choice.  Consumers in general are sheep in that they will flock to wherever they see has a following.  The only reason there's a market for Genesis is because the vendors are passifying it, and without the vendors support, it's pretty much useless.

My advice is to support the Poser figures.  You don't need Genesis, and sooner or later I'm guessing even DAZ in their infinite wisdom will realise they certainly don't need Genesis.  The only thing I'm watching for is how long it will take the big brass over there to realise it.

Actually, let me give you a different take on the whole figure/clothing thing.

You know there weren't any teen characters for Gen 4 right? There also was a lack of clothing for the teen characters in Gen 3? I had gotten some requests for some younger characters so I had made some characters based on M4 which ultimately became Ashley International. The product contained several heads that you could mix and match and didn't use the available morph channels so you would inject other morphs as well. I started with a male first because there were a few female products available that did similar things and could exist with steph 4 to scale down.

Before I finalized the product, I asked around to see if there were any vendors that could make some clothing for him and I got the same answer. "I can't because male clothing doesn't sell for what I have to do" Finally WildDesigns was the only vendor to make fits to match my product which is on sale at rendo. I couldn't add any scaling to the product as it wouldn't work in Poser so people would have to manually scale it down. And that was the issue with any non-standard figure you wanted to add: What type of support are you going to get?

So when Genesis came about, trying to find clothing support for characters didn't become an issue. Scaling a figure down (since there was no David 4) was easy as well. So no you may not want a diaper on an adult, but you may want your teenager to wear some pants. Also other vendors were free to make other characters as well because they could all share the same clothing.

Then genesis 2 came along more gender-specific products and that has done well for me sales-wise; I released 3 male products and had back to back top 30 for the Hero and teen characters (remember someone said teen characters don't sell) and I've already made as much by this month than I did last year. And other vendors are saying the same thing; so no, I don't see the tech going away. Compare that to the other characters released in the past 3 years that have faded fast and you'll see why Genesis 2 products are popping up here... including that Retro swimsuit that's on sale for 50% off today.

Quote -I do create my items with Poser in mind. Poser allows me to use a good number of modeling features, but not all. This has nothing to do with topology at all and that is what some fail to understand. Some of these modeling features do not work in DS at all, DS does not support them. To get the same result in DS, I have to model completely differently and avoid a number of features my modeling application offers me. This has nothing to do with topology at all, it has everything to do with how the end application interprets the data given to it in the object file. Yes, I can export models to .obj and while Poser will read them fine, I can make DS crash in mere seconds. Same goes for Vue, an item can work fine in both DS and Poser, but can sent Vue off into a crash...... in spite of the the topolgy being perfect.

The rules of topology are based on the fundamentals of geometry, which remain the same across all software, because it's all based on the rules of math and physics, and math and physics don't change just because you're using DS or Lightwave or C4D or Vue instead of Poser. If the geometry is built correctly then it will function properly where ever you use it. If it's not built correctly then it may work fine in some software and won't work at all in others. I've never seen your geometry, but just by your statements here I can tell you're not building your geometry correctly if you're having those problems. 

~Shane

Well, at least the thread activity is back up:)

We are enjoying that the parents are away! ;)

Quote - I do create my items with Poser in mind. Poser allows me to use a good number of modeling features, but not all. This has nothing to do with topology at all and that is what some fail to understand. Some of these modeling features do not work in DS at all, DS does not support them. To get the same result in DS, I have to model completely differently and avoid a number of features my modeling application offers me. This has nothing to do with topology at all, it has everything to do with how the end application interprets the data given to it in the object file. Yes, I can export models to .obj and while Poser will read them fine, I can make DS crash in mere seconds. Same goes for Vue, an item can work fine in both DS and Poser, but can sent Vue off into a crash...... in spite of the the topolgy being perfect.

Clearly the modelling features you can't use for DS are either causing something to happen to the surface topology that the DS importer doesn't understand, or something highly unusual is going on, because any mesh that works in Poser should work in DS just the same.  I've never ever had a mesh that didn't, based on the method of creation.  Once you export the object as an OBJ, whatever techniques were used to create it simply do not matter anymore.  The only thing that matters is the polygons, and how they appear on the mesh.  It doesn't even make any sense that DS wouldn't like you using a modelling feature, unless the results of using it were creating topology that is unreadable by the DS importer.  It isn't the feature in your modelling app isn't what DS doesn't like, it's the result of the topology that it produces which isn't compatible with the way DS imports geometry.  And that's exactly what we are trying to say here.  Topology is important, if you want consistant results.  All any modelling feature does is create polygonal mesh topology in some way.  I would be highly suspect of your topology being "perfect" , if indeed that is the case.

The only things that won't work the same in DS and Poser have to do with rigging, materials, and rendering.  The polygons of a OBJ, loaded into Poser, should load equally as well in DS, unless there's something highly unusual going on with the mesh that the DS importer is rejecting.  That would indicate bad topology (unless it's a material issue).  Mat files could cause loading issues too.

Quite simply, I vote to maintain the emphasis on software.  Figures will come and go.

That's not to make light, at all, of the "accessory" angle or the content "conundrum" but that's exactly what it is.

Who wants a car that has a bad ass radio, full gps, the interior bells and whistles but has an engine that needs fine tuning, tires that are worn and a frame that could be stronger?  I know what I want.  I can always put my own radio and other amenities in there myself.

I won't touch the other discussion except to say that some of the Genesis style abilities, inside Poser could be pythonically solved because that speaks, to me, more of streamlining the system to make it happen, like more efficient morph saving, swapping UVs (which could be swapping geometries there or injecting some kind of UVS file into a temporary geometry), making geometry switching tighter and on the fly for grafting.  HD morphs are about opening up the pixar SD spec more.  And yes, some of that would have to be tuning in other ways, on the program level.

**
@Male_M3dia**
I hear what you're saying but the problem I see can be summed up in the first thing you pointed out:

"You know there weren't any teen characters for Gen 4 right?"

• An opportunity then?
• Why not fill that gap instead of vending for a vendor-flooded figure?

I appreciate that you might look to or like to partner with other vendors in order to achive your product goals as a vendor.  But whenever there is a shortcoming, there's surely an opportunity for vendors to fill it.  I've lost count of how many times people complain about the lack of products available for the Poser figures, and every time I see it, I wonder why they are blind to the opportunity it presents to them.

Who knows, maybe Smith Micro do that intentionally in order to encourage vendored content.

Put it this way, I'm facing the very real prospect of having to become a vendor myself.  One the one hand I'm up for the challenge because I like to design.  But on the other, I'm dreading it because I have no idea whether the effort involved would even put food on the table (and that's a problem when your income is zero).

Faced with even that situation, I would not consider vending for a DAZ figure before at least vending for a Poser figure.  I'm not against DAZ or their figures, I just think that products made for the DAZ figures should be designed and tested strictly for DAZ Studio, and that Poser figure products should be aimed at and designed strictly for Poser.

It cuts out all the cross-app incompatibility concerns, and it cuts the workload on the vendor and doesn't leave the customer ripping their hair out.  I decided long ago that if I ever I chose to vend, that any DS-based products will be aimed at and tested strictly for DS, and that Poser-based products will be aimed at and tested strictly for Poser.

DS and Poser should not be fighting it out through content format wars, they should be fighting it out by pulling their acts together, stamping out bugs, and ensuring that their app is the one to go to because it's so stable and has the right features expected of an app designed to work with figures.

Quote - **
@Male_M3dia**
I hear what you're saying but the problem I see can be summed up in the first thing you pointed out:

"You know there weren't any teen characters for Gen 4 right?"

• An opportunity then?
• Why not fill that gap instead of vending for a vendor-flooded figure?

I appreciate that you might look to or like to partner with other vendors in order to achive your product goals as a vendor.  But whenever there is a shortcoming, there's surely an opportunity for vendors to fill it.  I've lost count of how many times people complain about the lack of products available for the Poser figures, and every time I see it, I wonder why they are blind to the opportunity it presents to them.

I think you need to read my post again. The issue is vendor support... where every single poser character released in the last 3 years have failed, the male versions especially. Although someone can build a figure, whether it succeeds or not depends on the support it receives from other vendors as well as customers.

The opportunity I saw was creating a teen to fill a gap in the Genesis 2 line. That way I can create teens of different sizes and races, and still have access to all of the clothing so I don't have to ask other vendors to make items for me. And because of that product and the two other items I released this year, I've already made what I made last year and it's not even april. So I consider that a successful project, and it filled a need that's been ignored for a while.

Would I have the same luck with a Poser-only product?  Absolutely not. You can look to Tyler and Rex to see what type of support you would get with the male products. And really there are too many one-off characters  just sitting in a lot of people's runtimes that they bought with the hope of support.

Quote -

Put it this way, I'm facing the very real prospect of having to become a vendor myself.  One the one hand I'm up for the challenge because I like to design.  But on the other, I'm dreading it because I have no idea whether the effort involved would even put food on the table (and that's a problem when your income is zero).

Faced with even that situation, I would not consider vending for a DAZ figure before at least vending for a Poser figure.  I'm not against DAZ or their figures, I just think that products made for the DAZ figures should be designed and tested strictly for DAZ Studio, and that Poser figure products should be aimed at and designed strictly for Poser.

Well the first piece of advice that I'd give you is: Don't quit your day job. Starting out you're not going to make money.

Then look at the marketplace and see what's out there being sold and check out trends. Make sure you know the difference between filling a need and selling to an empty market.

Lastly, expect your current hopes to be crushed once you release a product and you find that market isn't what you thought it was.

At the risk of derailing my own thread... does topology need to match or at least closely resemble the topology of the underlying figure?

In other words, should V4's topology be the same as the clothes she wears?

In a way. EG the breast flow of the clothing mesh must be similar to the figures or if you dial in huge breasts or nipples, you will get ugly blocked edges because its fighting the flow of the breast mesh flow.

Quote - At the risk of derailing my own thread... does topology need to match or at least closely resemble the topology of the underlying figure?

In other words, should V4's topology be the same as the clothes she wears?

Only DAZ Poser has conforming cloths.
conforming cloths alt to match the character topology 100%
but since you can't close is good.

dynamicks ,ah depends ,some 100% ,some not at all.

Quote - Well, at least the thread activity is back up:)

:lol:

Quote -  

You are entirely right RorrKonn, If the software will not do as you will you have to retort to pure brutality, sad but true! And here is what it looks like one mouse click later using ZBrush Panel loops,

 ZBrush and ZRemesher open up the entire Boolean world, that has been closed for us so long.

Killer mesh

A conforming scarf wouldn't need to explicitly match the figure's topology.  Conforming hair doesn't either.  So it highly depends on what it is.  Something that is intended to be more or less "form fitting" should generally follow the contours - shirt, blouse, pants.

Skirt - yes, at the waist, where abdomen bends would influence it.  Lower down to the drape, probably not.

**
@Male_M3dia**
Sorry about that, I did misinterpret what you said, but I still stand by what I said for the reasons I pointed out.  These issues exist because the vendors are obsessed with V4 and Genesis.  It's not as if the figures themselves are failures, it's that there's not enough content for them.

Thanks for the heads-up on becoming a vendor, and believe me I'm under no illusion there.  I know a lot about marketing and how to target and even create a market for something, but I'm also aware of the competition and work involved.

I'm currently living on £10 per week from savings, seriously, so I just figured that if I can make back at least that tenner a week then I can stop eating into my savings and still continue to eat.  I'm hoping that if I vend at least one catchy product, that it'll give me at least that much.

I bloody hope so 'cause I'm well and truly screwed if it doesn't :-D

last time I done dynamics was Poser 5 ,never in DAZ Studio.
but dynamic don't worry about grouping or anything right ?

So the same dynamic dress with out any changes to it would fit any mesh in DAZ Poser ,Right ? 

Just load the dress character and start the animation right ?

Software Development.

They do offer some good figures, maybe not as good as others in some opinions, but you can go to other places for the content. There is a  larger content creator ratio to developers. So in this I would have to lean to software. Why? If they took their time creating a better figure to play with or compete with another other features such as a better hair room, or faster rendering specs might get ignored. Unless they were investing in figures, I would think it would harm the output of their program than help.

I would rather have new features and work with the same figures, than have the same figures but some awesome figure which will be outdated by the release of another figure with the same tech. eventually.

Some of the main app's users might have different topology on the same character for different uses.
one for stills another for animations etc etc.
Anyways all the different topology styles have different names.

A mesh with out vector maps the topology means everything.
but with a vector map on a mesh .
We still make a mesh with excellent topology to be professional about it.
Even thou a half ass mesh with a 3000 polycount would do.

Last I looked the most advanced meshes you can make have vector maps & ALL the texturing maps.
DAZ Poser have been able to use displacement maps for a long time now.
Displacement maps ,One of the most advanced tools that DAZ Poser has but few ever use.
DAZ has HD Meshes that I have not checked out yet. but I doubt it will be used much either.
Displacement maps are killer but I do wish DAZ Poser had Vector maps or there =
I expect Poser Pro 16 will have Vector Maps.

Another one of DAZ Poser most advanced tools .That's ignored a lot.
I'm not 100% sure about all the maps DAZ Poser can use but I'm betting there here or close.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W07H7xeUnGE&list=PL90457F87CCF5513D

Put a texture and a few maps on a weight map Roxie ,You have the most advance mesh of 1995.
Put a Displacement map and ALL the other maps on a weight map Roxie ,You have the most advance mesh of 2012.

I like the idea that Poser has given us the tools to create with. The content that does come with Poser I think of more as learning aids. hat's the reason why they come with  Poser in the first place, so you don't have to go out and buy the latest 40 dollar DAZ figure-morph and all the accessories that come with it right off the bat. Want to learn how to morph a figure? Roxie's right there. Want to learn how to morph her into a catgirl which means moving around her joint positions, we now have animatable joints. Unfortunately, that takes more skill than I have at the moment, but Poser has given me the tools to learn how to do that if I want to.

Poser provides me with paint, brushes and a blank canvas, versus some figures and content which are more like puzzles that you have to put together. In the end you wind up with pretty pictures. No doubt the puzzle was probably easier and looks better. But the paint and canvas makes me feel like I've really accomplished something on my own.

You guys aren't going to believe this, but I just got asked to interview someone about this topic.  Can't tell you who she is but she said she'd be honored if I posted the conversation here on her behalf, and that it was ok to let you know in advance.

Who am I to deny a lady her wish?
I just got the questions off to her so it might even get done by tonight!

Sound interesting :)

First of all, Roxie, I'd like to thank you on behalf of myself and of the readers of the forum.  I'm sure they all appreciate you taking the time out of your Runtime to do this interview for us.  But before I start with the questions, there's something I'd personally love to know;

Why choose me to interview you?***
I was watching over the thread, you stood up for me in the debate, I like that in a guy.***

You're welcome, Roxie!***
Ok, no problem, just get on with it, it's freezing.***

You look a bit sad in the render, why is that?***
It's not really sadness, it's more of a hidden anger than anything else.***

And why is that?***
When you live in a Runtime like I do, it gets really annoying when your owner keeps clicking on Victoria.  I think I'll get more render time than the other Poser girls, but I want more than that, and that's why I'm here doing this interview.***

So you blame Victoria for the lack of interest in you?***
Sure.***

And what's your opinion of Victoria?***
The btch needs to die, obviously.**

I think you're quite a sassy girl, Roxie, and I'm as surprised as you are.  What do you think it is that makes vendors want to vend for Genesis but not Roxie?***
I couldn't give an opinion on why a female vendor doesn't vend for me, but I reckon I have the guys pretty much sussed.***

Well?***
I think it's pretty obvious really.  The male vendors don't vend clothes for me because they like to see me naked all the time.  I even had to walk to this interview for the render, totally naked.  I think I caused like six crashes by the time I'd got here.***

So you're confident about your body, or rather "Mesh" then?***
Yeah, sure.***

And how do you feel you compare to Victoria 5 in that sense?***
You're kidding, right?***

I'm all woman, from head to toe, every vertex and every poly a woman.  As for her, Victoria, she's not even a woman at all, she can morph into a guy just like that, it's creepy as hell.  I've seen creepy sht on the internet, she has guy bits sometimes!*

I hear EClark has a product in the works for you, Roxie, how do you feel about that?***
Cool, the guy obviously has class.***

He also said you'd be ideal for a beginner to practice with.***
Then I'll kick his ass next time he loads me up for a fitting!!!***

Are you pleased about the way Smith Micro and Steve handle things?***
Yeah, I suppose, but sometimes I think they miss the plot.  I'm half expecting Steve and Teyon to team up and create a new superhero-character called Cooperman!***

Any advice to potential vendors out there?***
Yeah, they need to stop obsessing over Victoria and start obsessing over me instead.  I render better than she does, I have character.  Poser has better SSS and softbody mapping, you can even map-out my entire body with a soft-body dynamics if you like.***

Plus, I have puffies.

Ok, so let's imagine Roxie was suddenly the girl in the limelight.  Are there any specific vendored products you envisage yourself wearing?***
Not really, but that's always been a Poser girl's priviledge, a girl likes to be surprised, and so do the customers.  I say go for it, surprise me***.

Well, it's been great to have this opportunity to speak with you like this.  I've had to bleet-out a few of the words, but in general, I think you made your point.

Good luck, and see you later, Roxie.***
Yeah, later.***

Heh, that's hilarious, Pumeco!

lol

"The btch needs to die."* That's so Top Model.

Haha, glad you both like it!

You have to click on the pic to notice it, but there's a weird white thing near her mouth, never noticed that.
Just checked the scene, had the light angle too sharp for the SSS setting used, duh!

Quote -
And what's your opinion of Victoria?***
The btch needs to die, obviously.**

Out the mouth of babes. :P  Can't say I disagree with this one, Roxie.

Oh, she sounds so jealous of you know who :P

The roxie interview made me teh laff. :-)

@Netherworks
Roxie sends you a thumbs-up and wants to know if she can borrow your knife?
Can't imagine what she wants it for!

@aelkima**
**That was a brave comment, and I hate to tell you this but she saw it, she reads the thread ;-)

@Steve
Glad you like it, coming back to Poser feels great :-)

It could do with a whole new walk designer, though.  Perhaps by giving it it's own tab or 'Room' and adding some of that 'motion design' and 'puppeteering stuff' that Reallusion and DAZ are doing - an Animation tab would be great!

As a stills figure tool, Poser always was the best and still is.  It has the best interface but animation feels lacking.

I hope you'll consider something along those lines for the next release, that's basically my personal wishlist because I'm already more than happy with the figure and rendering technology you have in there.  It'd also be cool to see a better dynamic hair system because it feels awkward and unpredictable (but not as important as the animation features).

That's classic man :lol:

You know what's extra funny is that 'over-the shoulder' look you gave Vickie.  I've seen that exact look a few times in real life.  It generally happens in department stores when they're shopping for clothes.  I don't think they realise they do it.

The posture is spot on as well, sort of like a skulk.

As for the expression on Roxie, well, I'd say that's typical Roxie! :biggrin:

I would like to make an update to my first post.  I still think the software is the main reason anyone buys Poser.  Some people point out that content is what sells the software, which may be true for someone who has been using it for 13+ years.  And it has been pointed out that you can get DS for free.  But what a lot of people do not see, since they have been in it for a long time, is that the content that comes with Poser, even if old, is enough to start someone out playing with all the features without having to download a ton of content.

I bought my newphews Poser 9 for Christmas (2012).  They enjoyed it so much that I got them Poser 10 for this last Christmas.  Part of the reason is all the content that is included allowed them the chance to play with all the aspects of 3D modeling.  And for $80 how much of what get with Poser can you buy at a store?  A fast count shows 150+ items (objects, not poses, expressions,textures), works out to about 50 cents a piece.  While it would be nice if all the content was updated to the latest version that would be a serious undertaking, and would take away all the reasons for people to look for advise on how to improve their shaders etc.

@Pumeco great interview with Roxie.

@ EClark I would like to thank you  for all the effort you have been putting in making things for Roxie.

Content or Software?

**
**

**Both!!! **

imho,

and do it faster.  a strong point is the soft physics, dynamic hair and cloth. can't say for the jiggle, since i don't have pp14.
improve it!

do it before garibaldi offers soft hair

**if they need more help, **they should offer to pay blackheart's mortgage, lol.

got to spend money, to make money.  can't stand on laurels like no one else is out to steal your market.

less poser users means less market for poser content makers.

2 bonus strong points - the Koi Man & the Teyon.  they should pay them mortgages too.

bookmark - ressurect this thread in a couple years for giggles :)

*** Roxie, the mesh with an Attitude !***

Free is fine, there is nothing wrong with the idea or concept of free.  A certain, important aspect of this community is built on free -- free content, free tutorials, free advice, all done out of the love of sharing/giving and so on.

There are a lot of good applications that are free.  Audacity, CamStudio (Recorder), The Gimp, Blender, etc.  I'm trying to think of the ones I use or have used.  But even with those, they don't always meet everyone's needs, wants or desires, so freely available is not the end all of it.  I'm fairly sure, too, that those have made an impact into the various commercial markets.  However, Photoshop still has its share and followers.  Cinema 4D, Lghtwave and so forth too.  I can say from dabbling in the modding community that a lot of folks are using Gimp and Blender but at least as many are using Photoshop and Max.

I see parallels here versus the mod community, in a lot of different ways, that I won't mention depthfully as to derail this thread (like too much made for Body "X", which could be V4 and not enough stuff make for Body "Y", which could be Roxie or whomever - it is really uncanny).

Software isn't always bound by a financial situation.  It can be but sometimes folks just like this or that better, regardless.

Content and so forth, it's no good to have a bunch of CDs/DVDs with nothing to play them in, so you need the unit too.  Every once in a while you get a new unit because the old one is out of date or this new one has some nice, new features.  Maybe you're comfortable using the old one for a while longer, maybe not.  Maybe you have to buy a few less CDs to afford the new unit.  Should the unit come with its own movies?  Maybe a console is a better analogy here, LOL...  Anyways, if it comes with something you can put in it, it's never going to be to everyone's liking.  If a CD player (just pretend here) came with a Slim Whitman CD, I'm very likely to never play it.  Particularly if my Martian friends came over... :P

Sorry a bit sleep deprived, not 100% sure what I'm saying. :D