Oh please... Give me a break...

Victoria 7. What a surprise.

Daz Studio only? What a surprise.

Buy content again? What a surprise. 

I am glad I use poser. I can't use her it seems so I cannot waste my money for another model that will be dead in 12 months.

I use Poser too. And I stopped my Vicky upgrades in V4.2. Still buying new and superb models. And out of V5, V6, V7, Vsomething...

She's supposedly got more-better rigging... "Twice as many points of articulation than before", whatever that means. Two elbow joints? I don't think so... A couple more joints in the shoulders, hip/thigh and trunk would be nice, though.

But, "DS Only" is a killer.

 V(insert number here): never had it.... never will...

On a wider point, I wonder what big a market there is now for the vendors that have started doing Genesis 2 products.  I am not trying to start a war here but I really am interested to see if those vendors will continue Genesis 2 support, move to Genesis 3 or support both.  I would assume that anyone starting with a new Genesis figure will start with Victoria 7 which means the Genesis 2 market might be limited.

Next question is what are the improvements of Genesis 3 over one and two?   I suspect that is a question that is going to be more difficult to answer, but I would still like to see and adult discussion on the matter.

While I do have the V6 basic item which came with the free DS Pro, I haven't really had a reason to use her, much less V5.  I still use Aiko4, and frankly, that's enough for me.  I would like to see discussion about the ways in which V7 is superior to V6.  There is, as far as I can see,  so Poser users are not going to be able to use her in Poser.

I invested a bunch of money in Gen1/V5/M5.  Quit when they launched Gen2/V6 and Gen2/M6 because it didn't suit me that the figures were separate again and was incredibly pissed off at the sudden cut-off of support for Gen1 (not even hair) and invested in Poser instead and saved a LOT by not shopping at Daz any more.  Figured they'd do exactly the same the moment the next Big Shiny came along.  Wonder if all support for Gen2 clothes will be abruptly cut off too.

While I do have the V6 basic item which came with the free DS Pro, I haven't really had a reason to use her, much less V5.  I still use Aiko4, and frankly, that's enough for me.  I would like to see discussion about the ways in which V7 is superior to V6.  There is, as far as I can see,  so Poser users are not going to be able to use her in Poser.

Not sure at this point if the present DSON will work with G3, if not then there really no incentive for those using G2 in Poser to upgrade.  Even if DSON does work there is then the question, as you rightly point out, what are the benefits in upgrading.  Personally I would have an issue on just how long G3 would be the latest figure but then maybe I am just tight with money.

Really I don't think the market is big enough for a separation of Poser and Daz into non compatability.

My spend at Daz goes down every month, I am paying more for Daz platinum than I spend.  

I tried using genesis, v6 etc. really I could see no difference in the final render from V4 so I stopped.  I am not wasting all the money I have spent at Daz over the years and invested in poser to go and buy a load of new content to switch to Daz Studio. This just seems commercial folly to me.

Really I don't think the market is big enough for a separation of Poser and Daz into non compatability.

My spend at Daz goes down every month, I am paying more for Daz platinum than I spend.  

I tried using genesis, v6 etc. really I could see no difference in the final render from V4 so I stopped.  I am not wasting all the money I have spent at Daz over the years and invested in poser to go and buy a load of new content to switch to Daz Studio. This just seems commercial folly to me.

Not sure if the market is big enough or not but the argument has been running since the introduction of Genesis and the Poser/Daz split, such as it is, happened and now is a matter of history.  I'm not a vendor but i guess only they and the brokers can tell you what the impact of the split has had. Apart from the split one would have to wonder just how many new figures the market can support.  Many users appeared to have changed their spending patterns and a lot appear to have reduced their overall spend so there has to be a question over how many Genesis users will re-invest in G3.  As long as Daz attract more user to G3, be it new or upgrades than they are laughing and, lets face it, DS software has to be paid for in one way or another.

She's supposedly got more-better rigging... "Twice as many points of articulation than before", whatever that means. Two elbow joints? I don't think so... A couple more joints in the shoulders, hip/thigh and trunk would be nice, though.

Sounds like the helper bones in Poser Place's V4WM....

The fact that V7 does not work in Poser ends the chance I might buy her. Folly on Dazs part.

Now that Victoria 7 is available, I wonder what V8 is going to look like............... 

When is the question, you can bet that they are already working on it...............

You have to give credit where credit is due. It is a good looking character. 

I do have to agree with many others that the release of G3 is rather close to G2.

Being that close you would think the base would be free, but we all know it will be Soon(TM)

Give them time, she'll be free eventually. I've got v1-6 legally and haven't paid a thing. And if she doesn't currently work with dson, she most likely will. I'll get the free stuff, but I'm not paying for her. I barely use the genesis figures I have now.

No poser support or DSON. In the forums one member spoke of trying to make a Cr2. I suspect they will eventually make DSON files, but looking at the forums there is a lot of grumbling about the possible quick end of G2 support. Some replies are that G2 content can be used with autofit on the G3 figures. Still as a poser user I'm done there. I used to check for poser fast grab items or sales (not the buy this get poser stuff discounts). If DSON was faster and better (poser users try importing more than two figures). Also because of no standards (specifically for content creators), different vendors put DSON files in different places so DSON goofs up a lot.

What a sad bunch of sniveling whiners you all are!

Believe it or not, DAZ doesn't owe you full backwards compatibility of all new products forever. You bitch because there's no new V4 killer on the horizon, then you bitch some more if a possible contender appears because it means you'll have to buy better stuff to go with a better figure. DAZ is apparently trying to raise the quality of 3D figures and of 3D figure artwork as a whole. Going by the quality of most promo images in their store these days, I would say they are succeeding. Poser's development has scarcely budged in decades, but you bitch that it's DAZ's fault that many of the best vendors appear to be jumping ship in their direction, and somehow this makes them the evil enemy because they are leaving you behind stuck in, what, 2005 with V4?

I think V7 looks amazing in those promo renders, she has the prettiest face I've ever seen on a stock figure and she seems to morph into quite believable expressions. I wish her a long and happy life, but if V8 improves on her one day, that's ok too.

There was a V5 and V6? :)

You know, with XandM, V4WM, V4wmAS, i13's Overhaul, ZBendMorphs, ZBrush, and lots of Sabby, Thorne, and Danae's textures-- V4 has become a posable primitive in my runtime.

Since 2011, the only thing I've bought from Daz are Carrara upgrades. And one came with M4Complete, the other came with a buttload of Genesis stuff, which I've never really used. Gave up on Daz after what they did to Carrara and Hexagon, although I still upgrade Carrara out of nostalgia, I suppose.
The only thing I'm really waiting for is Reality 4.1.

Please remember to keep this thread polite.

I'm about to switch over to the "dark side". first iRay, now G3F and V7. Looking foreward, how SM will try to win me back. (g) :D

What a sad bunch of sniveling whiners you all are!

Believe it or not, DAZ doesn't owe you full backwards compatibility of all new products forever. You bitch because there's no new V4 killer on the horizon, then you bitch some more if a possible contender appears because it means you'll have to buy better stuff to go with a better figure. DAZ is apparently trying to raise the quality of 3D figures and of 3D figure artwork as a whole. Going by the quality of most promo images in their store these days, I would say they are succeeding. Poser's development has scarcely budged in decades, but you bitch that it's DAZ's fault that many of the best vendors appear to be jumping ship in their direction, and somehow this makes them the evil enemy because they are leaving you behind stuck in, what, 2005 with V4?

I think V7 looks amazing in those promo renders, she has the prettiest face I've ever seen on a stock figure and she seems to morph into quite believable expressions. I wish her a long and happy life, but if V8 improves on her one day, that's ok too.

Not actually bitching as I have always believed Daz has the right to take the business wherever they want to take it.  Not even bothered that it might be too close to Genesis 2, although some might, as I never bought into Genesis 2, they have the right to go their way but I equally have the right to go mine.  Does that mean I am not interested in Genesis 3, not at all, l look every time there is a new figure with two prime questions, what does it do that I cannot do now, or do it better, and what do I need to use the new figure. I agree it looks a good figure and clearly better than V4 when she was first released, but then you would expect that.  I like the real reflection in the eyes seen in the promos but is that default material or burnt in.  I can get real reflections with V4 it was just not there out of the box and needed input from the likes of Bagginsbill.  I also support the work on providing better expressions as that is something that may well make me decide to change.  That said, I did not fall in love with the attitude expressions as I do not see a major improvement there.  That is not to say there is not improvement but I will need to be convinced.

Due to changes with Poser I am more likely to change to Daz than ever before but lets face it, while Studio is free, getting a decent G3 runtime is not cheap, even the sale prices are high but that is not to say they are not worth it.  I just need to be convinced that they are worth the cost and the time needed to learn Studio.

Please remember to keep this thread polite.

Timely intervention....I wish you luck.

She's supposedly got more-better rigging... "Twice as many points of articulation than before", whatever that means. Two elbow joints? I don't think so... A couple more joints in the shoulders, hip/thigh and trunk would be nice, though.

But, "DS Only" is a killer.

How about metacarpals, articulated toes. Fully rigged face with over 30 bones. 4 bones iin the tongue. No Tri's in the mesh, lower mesh density. 13 bones in the shoulders neck stomach and torso. A weight mapping and uv system that is compatible with top end 3d software..... but not Poser. Native support for pbr render materials.... HD morphs........ .... ....

I really dont see why Daz3d should worry about poser support at all after being cold shouldered by smith micro with g1 and g2. Maybe smith micro have a new figure almost ready... Or will they continue to ride an almost ten year old daz figure base (v4)

from what i have heard a lot of content creators are planning on dropping v4 support completely and focusing on g2 and g3 as its hard to ignore the vast improvements these figures bring to the table in both figure quality and content creation tools. in fact a large number have already made the leap.

What a sad bunch of sniveling whiners you all are!

Believe it or not, DAZ doesn't owe you full backwards compatibility of all new products forever. You bitch because there's no new V4 killer on the horizon, then you bitch some more if a possible contender appears because it means you'll have to buy better stuff to go with a better figure. DAZ is apparently trying to raise the quality of 3D figures and of 3D figure artwork as a whole. Going by the quality of most promo images in their store these days, I would say they are succeeding. Poser's development has scarcely budged in decades, but you bitch that it's DAZ's fault that many of the best vendors appear to be jumping ship in their direction, and somehow this makes them the evil enemy because they are leaving you behind stuck in, what, 2005 with V4?

I think V7 looks amazing in those promo renders, she has the prettiest face I've ever seen on a stock figure and she seems to morph into quite believable expressions. I wish her a long and happy life, but if V8 improves on her one day, that's ok too. **************************************

THIS!   A thousand times THIS!

You want to stay in the past? 

Then stop whining that you're left behind by others who are not that easily pleased.

Well done, DAZ!  You ARE the men of vision!

"Hooray for the men of vision!

Who are never satisfied.

Who believe that the way to a better world,

Is to give it a better try!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7bixhF5Dfo

She's supposedly got more-better rigging... "Twice as many points of articulation than before", whatever that means. Two elbow joints? I don't think so... A couple more joints in the shoulders, hip/thigh and trunk would be nice, though.

But, "DS Only" is a killer.

How about metacarpals, articulated toes. Fully rigged face with over 30 bones. 4 bones iin the tongue. No Tri's in the mesh, lower mesh density. 13 bones in the shoulders neck stomach and torso. A weight mapping and uv system that is compatible with top end 3d software..... but not Poser. Native support for pbr render materials.... HD morphs........ .... ....

Aside from  DAZ ditching their Triax Weightmapping for the Dual Quaterion weightmaps and the UVs so they now load in zbrush, substance painter, etc without overlapping (which is why Poser support is missing), the biggest shock for me is: Vickie 7 has an anus.

I kid you not. 

Texturing will be an adventure now. 

"A weight mapping and uv system that is compatible with top end 3d software"

These are actually some of the main reason why Genesis 3 is here so soon, so it can be used in other top end software as well as game engines. Daz is taking Genesis out of the niche bubble and is expanding its audience and wants to get into other markets early as a go-to figure platform. If that means SM and Poser is left behind then so be it. Not like they really cared or showed support with Genesis anyways.

"Vickie 7 has an anus."

Thank you, DAZ. I waited 15 years to read this lovely words!

"A weight mapping and uv system that is compatible with top end 3d software"

These are actually some of the main reason why Genesis 3 is here so soon, so it can be used in other top end software as well as game engines. Daz is taking Genesis out of the niche bubble and is expanding its audience and wants to get into other markets early as a go-to figure platform. If that means SM and Poser is left behind then so be it. Not like they really cared or showed support with Genesis anyways.

Perhaps since adopting the DSON format and triax weightmapping was unfavorable to SM, maybe FBX import and the switch to dual quaterion weightmaps would be more appealing. That would make genesis 3 usable in Poser and be native too.

Could work. However you will still have the issue with Poser support content wise as PA's are no longer required to support Poser with G3.

Not winging about V7 I'm sure she is fantastic. 

I just think that the Daz business model is clear, a new figure every year or so. Buy new content. Do I care if v7 has an anus? No. Do I want 800 facial expressions... Well not really.

I guess I don't want a Bugatti that is fiddly to park, I like my solid everyday car that still looks good is paid for and still gets me to work in exactly the same time as the Ferrari that is stuck in the traffic behind me.

Good luck to V7 and those that spend on all her content, V4's day was bound to come. But look out for V8... She will have articulating toenails, eyebrow twitching, follicle re-alignment, cuticle transponders, flapping parts and genuine flatulance. And you can buy all her accessories all over again...

Give them time, she'll be free eventually. I've got v1-6 legally and haven't paid a thing....

Indeed. The only Vicky I ever bought was was V4, and it was as what they now call the Starter Bundle with the Morphs++ for about 18 bux back in The Day...

it's always left to Zev0 to make the argument about market forces. This is what drives DAZ 3D, it's not emotion.

With every figure we see the same. I don't need this or that, etc. You may not, but there are others that do, and those others are in the majority, who don't frequent forums. I am willing to bet that V7 is being purchased like mad. There are those who have been waiting for a more lifelike superior figure and DAZ 3D is filling in that need excellently.

So on one hand we have a software with a fabulous character and on the other hand we have software with fabulous tools....and they are not compatible anymore.....

I want a fabulous software so I can use a fabulous character and drape some gorgeous gowns on her in the clothroom and fix poke with the morphbrush.

So I guess you don't own a new computer or a TV or a gaming console, a mobile phone or any other of a million consumer products that are evolving on a daily basis, Dalek?

Why does anyone buy the latest version of anything? They want access to the latest tech and features whether incremental or groundbreaking in nature.

If V4 suits your needs then thats all you do need, but for a whole bunch of others they want access to a modern figure with modern tech driving it forward, progression.

In fact you could probably still get by on a Pentium 4 if you only want to type a daily diary on it.

What is SMITH MICRO's business model by the way, Sell Poser, Sell Upgrade ad infinitum, sound familiar?

 My compliments to DAZ.
This looks like a nice figure, and the hair is stunning.

So, mods.........can you please explain why this thread is in the POSER FORUM please?

This model is not compatible with Poser.

Poser users cannot use it

Poser users are being subjected to name calling and nastiness about a figure that is not compatible.

Please explain, moderators and Renderosity PTB, why you are subjecting YOUR POSER CUSTOMERS to this kind of behavior in THE POSER FORUM on Renderosity.

So, mods.........can you please explain why this thread is in the POSER FORUM please?

This model is not compatible with Poser.

Poser users cannot use it

Poser users are being subjected to name calling and nastiness about a figure that is not compatible.

Please explain, moderators and Renderosity PTB, why you are subjecting YOUR POSER CUSTOMERS to this kind of behavior in THE POSER FORUM on Renderosity.

Do you not realize that the DAZgang can't tell the difference between the forums? They think anything Genesis (even non-compatible figures) needs to be in poser forums And it appears that RO look at this the same way as they do political statements (which I am sure were against the TOS) - they are "remaining neutral" (that was the answer i received anyway). It has become quite obvious that the people who have been running around calling poser-only users stupid, are themselves, too stupid to distinguish between DAZ and POSER (although admittedly; the spelling is very similar is it not?)

Hmm, Glitterati3D maybe you can explain why this thread has seen more activity in less then 4hrs than almost every other thread on the POSER FORUM front page?

Or you can just continue with your righteous indignation of course. I'm not sure why anyone needs to explain why Poser users might be interested in a new generation figure release. I seem to recall you saying that you hope Poser drops support for DSON in its next version. Well looks like you got your wish and you don't even need to wait. So you should be happy right? No, well I guess that figures. :)

Would be great to see a few more images of Victoria 7 in the thread. Just so Poser users can get a glimpse of what they are missing out on ;)

Hmm, Glitterati3D maybe you can explain why this thread has seen more activity in less then 4hrs than almost every other thread on the POSER FORUM front page?

Or you can just continue with your righteous indignation of course. I'm not sure why anyone needs to explain why Poser users might be interested in a new generation figure release. I seem to recall you saying I hope Poser drops support for DSON in its next version. Well looks like you got your wish and you don't even need to wait. So you should be happy right? No, well I guess that figures. :)

Would be great to see a few more images of Victoria 7 in the thread. Just so Poser users can get a glimpse of what they are missing out on ;)

I'm thrilled, Razor!  I think it's wonderful. Now, perhaps, you DAZ vendors can run off to your own forums and try quelling the rebellion brewing there, huh?

Start namecalling some of your OWN users, perhaps?

No rebellion that I can see, just some nervous flutters over a major change.

People love to see big things happen, but it does tend to make some a little nervous about the implications.

Of course you will see the occasional complaint about the lack of Poser support, though I think I have seen maybe one in the 17 page long thread with the same title as this one.

You're right though I guess given a little time these forums here will become a lot quieter in future.

No rebellion that I can see, just some nervous flutters over a major change.

People love to see big things happen, but it does tend to make some a little nervous about the implications.

Of course you will see the occasional complaint about the lack of Poser support, though I think I have seen maybe one in the 17 page long thread with the same title as this one.

You're right though I guess given a little time these forums here will become a lot quieter in future.

Well, good for you.  Good for DAZ.  Please, go over there and revel in your superiority.  In the meantime, welcome to my ignore list.  I've had enough of your personal attacks and nastiness.

I'm thrilled, Razor!  I think it's wonderful. Now, perhaps, you DAZ vendors can run off to your own forums and try quelling the rebellion brewing there, huh?

Start namecalling some of your OWN users, perhaps?

No one is name calling, at least, I am not. I am actually on your side. Smith Micro needs to up their game. This argument that they are just selling software doesn't fly anymore. They need to team up with someone that can bring it to DAZ 3D or, at least, work with them to bring Poser some great tech. A tech that isn't used is as good as worthless. If Poser can't get their figures to be accepted or worked on at the same enthusiastic level it will fall behind, a lot of sweat wasted that could have been put to great use and keep Poser as viable as ever. Sorry, but at this point, you have to ask yourself why the industry is talking about DAZ 3D more and more.

Lol, Have you heard of the saying "Pot calling the kettle black"?

Have a good one Glitter.

You're right though once again, I do have better things I should be doing.

Hey Dalek, in response to your OP, I'm really happy to see no Poser support for the latest DAZ figure.

Now, perhaps, the ugliness that is DAZ will stop intruding on Poser users in Poser forums and we will no longer be subjected to the namecalling, nastiness and general ugliness that is DAZ.

Wooooooooooooot!  The end is nigh!

Thank you, DAZ!

Razor42 sez>Hmm, Glitterati3D maybe you can explain why this thread has seen more activity in less then 4hrs than almost every other thread on the POSER FORUM front page?<

Because people like to watch train wrecks????

Hey Dalek, in response to your OP, I'm really happy to see no Poser support for the latest DAZ figure.

Now, perhaps, the ugliness that is DAZ will stop intruding on Poser users in Poser forums and we will no longer be subjected to the namecalling, nastiness and general ugliness that is DAZ.

Wooooooooooooot!  The end is nigh!

Thank you, DAZ!

Like cutting of the head to cure a toothache....

 Ach Glitter, do not get nervous.
Its the "boys" singing the same old; "Mine is better then yours song".

Funny thing is, not a word about V7 in the DAZ forum here. LOL.
Cannot you see the joke in that one?

It's becoming hilarious.

Is seems like a nice figure, with a very good diffuse texture and stunning hair, but not for Poser users.

 Ach Glitter, do not get nervous.
Its the "boys" singing the same old; "Mine is better then yours song".

Funny thing is, not a word about V7 in the DAZ forum here. LOL.
Cannot you see the joke in that one?

It's becoming hilarious.

Is seems like a nice figure, with a very good diffuse texture and stunning hair, but not for Poser users.

I'm not a bit nervous. In fact, I'm loving it.

DAZ vendors have long said F*ck Poser users.  Now DAZ has joined in, officially.

That's a GOOD thing.

And, yes, I noticed not one word about their latest, greatest in the DAZ FORUM on RO.  You're surprised?

I'm sorry I'm still outraged about the Renderosity site software downgrade.

I can't get upset about a nice looking figure. I want a functioning web site - that's what I'm demanding. I want search to work with the terms we use here like IBL, HDR, V4. I want ebots so I know people are talking to me and asking me stuff in my threads. I want font sizes and layout that make sense for my 26" monitor, not my iPad.

Please - make Renderosity fix this site - not manage another Daz vs. Poser argument.

All I know is I'm very happy to be platform agnostic.  Last week, I used DS 4.8 for one project, and PP2014 for another.

With that in mind, I am very excited about G3 and V7.

So, mods.........can you please explain why this thread is in the POSER FORUM please?

This model is not compatible with Poser.

Poser users cannot use it

Poser users are being subjected to name calling and nastiness about a figure that is not compatible.

Please explain, moderators and Renderosity PTB, why you are subjecting YOUR POSER CUSTOMERS to this kind of behavior in THE POSER FORUM on Renderosity.

I'm going to note this is where the thread took an ugly turn. Please don't complain about the problems that you actually start. It's not like someone put a gun to your head and said "Go into this thread and post something nasty to derail it." ;)  And to answer your question... did a DAZ user create this thread? If not, I don't see how your argument has a leg to stand on, except to start yet another war to derail the information flow.

Fight on kids. I have popcorn and a cool beverage to see the proceedings. Or you can disappoint me and actually be civil to each other or bow out if you actually don't care. ;)

All I know is I'm very happy to be platform agnostic.  Last week, I used DS 4.8 for one project, and PP2014 for another.

As it should be.  That makes you a smart user.