I know this might not be that 100% correct forum for this discussion but it affects poser users.  This is something that Rpublishing proably should have started looking at when G2 came out.  Yes we got DSON to help, but G3 is basically anti-poser and who knows if DAZ cares anymore. Now I'm not being anti-daz in this post, this is just a practical matter that poser users need addressed.

Why hasn't Rpublishing bit the bullet and have a new female character (and male I suppose) made for sale just so poser users can use it going forward.  Don't get me wrong, I love V4.  V4 has a lot of products and support.  The problem is, as G3 gets more popular, the vendors will turn their attention to G3 items.  That means declining sales from poser users because as the vendors start making more and more G3 stuff, there's less stuff for poser.  I think it's fair to say that V4 is a pretty mature and crowded market.  While that means she's got a ton of options, daz users don't need to get her as G2/G3 has morphs for that.  They've got stuff to buy going forward but we might not.  As a poser user, if I can't buy anything that'll work in my rendering software, my desire to buy stuff is going to go down.

That's where Rpublishing needs to come in if they have any business sense at all.

We need a new poser character that can compliment or replace V4 for poser users.  DAZ has their own in house software and it's pretty clear SM doesn't really care about working with them.  For the moment, DAZ is basically moving on past poser users.  That is why we need this.

What would this character need?

1. A nice face that looks good unmorphed, is easy to work with, and has a big enough poly count as the face is important.

2. A body that bends nice and has the right polycount in the right places.  Also it needs to be able to be morphed into realistic AND fantasy looks (pinup and anime).

3. No unnecessary mat zones (ie no upper torso and nipple and lower torso and 3 zones for the arms and legs).

4. While I'm thinking about it, pay one of the mat room gurus to make a great skin shader for her.

5. Morphs ++ functionality in the base character.  Without this functionality, a new character isn't going to work.

6. Plenty of day 1 vendor support to start things up.  I'm talking about 5-6 hair styles (one long and down, one shorter maybe bob style, and one pony tail at least).  Make sure it has 5-8 characters you can buy.  Maybe 10 clothing options (one or two needs to be a type of bikini, some good shoes, 2-5 fantasy styles, and a fetish outfit or three like a nurse, maid, office worker, sailor outfit.)  A pose pack or two will be necessary.  Maybe a few fantasy options like nice wings (angel, fairy), cat girl, mermaid stuff, and that sort of thing.  A few dynamic clothings as well.

7. Breast and butt morph packages for sale on day one.  Let's not lie about this.  Boobs and booty are big sellers.  If there are a few good boob packages on day one (or at least within the first month) this character well sell.

8. If it can compliment v4's abilities but is designed to make full use of poser's capabilities, that would be great.

9.  Have a vendor make a program that'll let V4's clothing (and maybe characters if possible) work on the new figure.  If a character can't be imported, maybe come up with a program that'll encourage vendors to remake their old V4 characters on the new figure (let's say they keep 65% of the sale instead of 50% or whatever).  Or have an upgrade sale price for people who bought the original skin here at rendo.  Something to encourage people and vendors to make the switch.

1. Let prime members buy the character one week or two before the full release or at least let some of the more popular artists get a head start on making beautiful renders with the character.  That'd help sell her if I can click on a gallery and see that she looks great.  

Renderosity needs to remember it is a business and while making this character will be an expense, it will earn the store money in the long run.  DAZ has moved on from poser users, I think it's past time one of the major sites that sells stuff to poser users needs to recognize this.  If you guys can pull this off, it's in your interest in the long run.  Also, what's the point of Rpulishing if you guys aren't willing to actually publish something that could make a splash in the market for years to come.

In before a thousand individual itch scratches which prioritize v4 compatibility to the point of nerfing the figure.

• The fig ought to leverage current Poser's rigging capabilities to the max. Sophisticated weight mapping at the least.
• It should avoid bizarre geometrical subdivisions. No, you are not smarter than everyone else.
• The fig needs to be sculpted by someone professional whose understanding of anatomy is not intermediate level. 
• The dials that Morphs++ brought to V4 should have been sold with it because they are necessary for most of our applications. That should be a baseline for a new figure instead of expecting people to buy it as though a choice were involved.
• No hideous grins. Stop that. 
• Upon release, a bundle that includes basic contemporary clothing (dress shirt, dress, pants, skirt, bra/panties, catsuit), a few texture maps and shoes THAT AREN'T HIGH HEELS FOR PETE'S SAKE, a magnet or pose for fitting existing hair sets to this new fig. A secondary AT RELEASE TIME ethnic package that has texture maps. 
• Stop using INJ poses to do everything just because you can. MAT exists and we're not catering to programs that don't support it.
• A sane UV mapping scheme but that ought to be obvious. 
• The tear material in v4 does something nothing else can. Steal that idea and don't try to rethink it because I guarantee your better idea isn't.
• Nothing on the figure itself as a conforming prop that aren't genitals. 
• Nostrils that truly make glow impossible unless Cycles somehow fixes that. 
• Overlay textures for a few closeup areas like brows and nipples that come in at cropped higher res scales and are positioned using UV settings with material nodes to blend them in. 
• A specular map that's really based off of sweat gland distribution and not just an exported highlight layer.
• Feet with jointed digits. Radical, I know.

Have a couple of good merchant resource skin texture maps available right away. Preferably one that can be used for freebies. 

Have it beta tested extensively. Maybe even gamma tested. It seems the community is very unforgiving about issues in new figures if there are any flaws, even if the problem is fixed quickly, it still goes suffers.

No baked in specular or reflections. We haven't needed them in a decade. Or at least an option for without, in case someone wants to fake it for a quick render.

Renderosity needs to remember it is a business and while making this character will be an expense, it will earn the store money in the long run. 

They already earning money now selling multi figure content. So why do they need their own figure if they already making money just selling content, be it for Daz only, Poser only or both? This whole pitch makes no sense. You asking them to invest in a venture that might not bear any fruit. Why would they when the current model is working for them? Also it is not their responsibility to look after Poser users. That responsibility belongs to SM. They need to make a figure, and if it is good enough, vendors will support it and if that supporting content is sold here, Rendo will get their cut of the sales. I don't see why Rendo has to bail them out and do the heavy lifting for them by providing this figure. Would be a different story if this was a Poser only store and the content submitted was slowing down and their revenue was only coming from Poser support. But if they making money off Daz content as well, I don't see why they need to change their business model. Money is Money, doesn't matter where it comes from, be it for this figure or that figure. This is a store, not a Poser store, a store, and if the content is selling, then it's business as usual. Why do you think they selling Genesis content themselves? Because it sells. You see the same thing at RDNA. Isn't that the primary function of a store? To support what sells?

I agree with Zev on why Rpublishing most likely wont make a figure. The business model in place now works, investing heavily in what might not just does not make good business sense.

As far as who should make one, it does not really matter who makes it. The reason I say that is because we have literally hundreds of Figures to use in Poser.

The difference is what the Users choose to use and support. Poser has always had Figures, it is not their fault people chose to stick to another one. Just about every version has had new Figures.

When a new Figure does come out and starts to take off, it will have everything to do with the Users. They will either choose to support it, or not. To date, "not" has ruled...

No figure will ever "replace" V4, that is not going to happen. Another one could build its way up to that, but to date none have come anywhere close due to the Users choices. Many claim to want a new Figure. But when one does come out it usually fades away because the majority of users didn't really want a new one.

It is a sizable investment to build a Runtime for a Figure. Not every user is prepared to do that.

Building a figure for the minority is why most people don't build them. The ones that know everything about what a new figure should have, most likely never have.

The difference is what the Users choose to use and support. Poser has always had Figures, it is not their fault people chose to stick to another one. Just about every version has had new Figures. When a new Figure does come out and starts to take off, it will have everything to do with the Users. They will either choose to support

Sorry, but this is simply not true.  Figure acceptance STARTS with the vendors, not the customers. There's only ONE reason V4 has maintained her supremacy so far - vendors REFUSE to give her up.

USERS can't affect a thing when there are no products produced to do so with.

And, now, at RO, you can just forget ANY figures but Genesis.  For once, the V4 vendors are getting a taste of what it's like to be buried by page after page after page after page of another figure consuming the marketplace.

Vendors brought this on themselves by refusing to accept that the V4 market was saturated and moving on to something better. 

So here we are.

There's nothing that prevents any artist or team from creating and marketing their own figures, for whatever program they want it to work in. If the quality is there, then there will be a customer base for it.

It's my understanding that the only real issue currently preventing G3 from functioning in Poser is the dual quaternion rigging. This has become an industry standard form of rigging/skinning, (Maya, Max, etc), so it's not something that DAZ has come up with on their own, the way it was with G1 and 2. It's up to Poser's developers to adapt to that rigging if they want their user's content to be cross-platform compatible, and for other developer's content to function in Poser. 

As for 'Rosity creating their own figure, that was already tried about 10 years ago and didn't work out very well, for various reasons. But it would be interesting to see if they're up to attempting it again though. It might be a good idea. And there's no reason they couldn't develop their own figure as a sort of mascot for the site, and continue selling content for other figures. With proper scripting, any content can be adapted to any figure.

Hasn't RDNA created at least a few of their own figures in the past? Or at least heavily supported figures that are exclusive to their site. I thought they were involved in Michelle's development, and more recently the Star figure.

As for vendor vs customer support on new figures, it's really more of a 50-50 split. Customers can't buy content that vendors don't make, but if enough of them don't buy the content that vendors do make for a figure, then it doesn't give them much motivation to make more content for that figure. In the end, vendors are in it for the money and are going to make content for the figures that sell the most. So really, it all comes back around to the figure's creator being responsible - at least in the beginning - for producing the bulk of content for his/her/their figure, if they want that figure to keep going. At this point, any figure that isn't compatible with a lot of the existing content is going to struggle in support for the first while. If you make a figure you have to be willing to invest a lot of effort into supporting it yourself, with quality content that people want to use.

if someone could show a bit of love and support for Alyson, Sidney, Simon, Jessie or James or any of the other SM G2 figures.

if you have poser then you have those figures.

I agree 1000% to what Winterclaw said.

Nice idea, I do hope they look at the last few figures that have been added to the Poser mix though, none of their launches suggests it will be a roaring success.

The other possible fly in the ointment is what SM are going to do, if they do include dual quaternion rigging will the vast majority of Poser users move to G3 in preference to any new figure?

The other possible fly in the ointment is what SM are going to do, if they do include dual quaternion rigging will the vast majority of Poser users move to G3 in preference to any new figure?

Exactly. If Rendo produced a new figure, SM could sink it by adding support for G3 in future poser versions. Anyway, I imagine the sad tale of Renda is still fresh in Rendo's minds...

"Why hasn't Rpublishing bit the bullet and have a new female character (and male I suppose) made for sale just so poser users can use it going forward. "

...   ...  ...Who? Seriously asking. I feel out of the loop - granted, I have been stuck in a cave the last year and a half. Who is Rpublishing?

...   ...  ...Who? Seriously asking. I feel out of the loop - granted, I have been stuck in a cave the last year and a half. Who is Rpublishing?

RPublishing is Renderosity's content artist/team. They've been around for quite a while. I'm not sure "who" the artist(s) name is/are behind it. I think some of their content is bought outright from other artists. http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/?vendor=RPublishing

"It's my understanding that the only real issue currently preventing G3 from functioning in Poser is the dual quaternion rigging.  "

Hi IMHO this is a grossly over simplified assessment of the genesis to poser compatibility issue.

when I installed the latest DS on my new win7 PC several months ago I basicly ignored those default genesis figures and simply added my old poser six runtime I had copied over from my  Mac book.

But after a few months of slowly incorporating genesis into my Character animation work flow and rendering them in Cinema4D via MDD/obj I realized what the "big deal" is actually all about and have basicaly declared the previous millenium figures( including V4) obsolete and they likely will not be used again by myself after this current animated film project.

If its just a matter of getting the latest "Vicky" version, posable&dressable into poser that is already possible now via many of the various methods including DSON and joepublic's techniques even for "V7" it seems

What has me frankly impressed is the way  functionality& morphs are just available to the genesis figures automaticly in the background after installing them into DS itself.

Gone are the bad old days of uber bloated 300 megV4/M4 Cr2's as all of the Figure morphing Data is driven by the program itself not the figure. persay

The switchable UV sets that allow for using your favorite M4 V4 textures made the transition much less "disruptive" to say nothing of the auto fit feature that allows usage of most legacy clothing and hair.

I could go on but my only point is this:

Any poser based solution that does not function with genesis EXACTLY the way that Daz studio functions with the figure, will be nothing more than a dodgey,tenuous "hack".

And even then will forever be easily subject to being broken by the next SR poser update or point version DS update.

Resulting in endless frustration for those who keep foolishly placing their hopes in such a half measures.

We want Renda! Bring back Renda! We want Renda!

The difference is what the Users choose to use and support. 

Sorry, but this is simply not true.  Figure acceptance STARTS with the vendors, not the customers. There's only ONE reason V4 has maintained her supremacy so far - vendors REFUSE to give her up.

USERS can't affect a thing when there are no products produced to do so with.

And, now, at RO, you can just forget ANY figures but Genesis.  For once, the V4 vendors are getting a taste of what it's like to be buried by page after page after page after page of another figure consuming the marketplace.

Vendors brought this on themselves by refusing to accept that the V4 market was saturated and moving on to something better. 

So here we are.

It may start with the Vendors, but it ends with the users. It does not matter what figure you build content for if no one buys it, it dies.

It may start with the Vendors, but it ends with the users. It does not matter what figure you build content for if no one buys it, it dies.

Ahhh, well, it's not gonna matter anyway.  The vultures are circling and the carcass is rotting, so we'll soon see how happy the cheerleaders are when DS costs the same as Poser (used to) and figures run $100.00+ a pop.

...   ...  ...Who? Seriously asking. I feel out of the loop - granted, I have been stuck in a cave the last year and a half. Who is Rpublishing?

RPublishing is Renderosity's content artist/team. They've been around for quite a while. I'm not sure "who" the artist(s) name is/are behind it. I think some of their content is bought outright from other artists. http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/?vendor=RPublishing

Thanks. I honestly had no clue this was even a thing and we met with Rendo not too long ago. Good to know. :)

I neglected to mention one other thing that would make a new fig competitive with Genesis: 

A sane set of restrictions governing 3D printing. 

DAZ3D's EULA has a blanket prohibition on 3D printing which on the surface smells like fear that a laser scan of a 3D print could reverse engineer their meshes, but is far more likely a cover for the actual reason: royalties. If you make a popular character for one of their figures and then make renders of her, your sale potential is relatively small and the resulting work can easily be pirated diminishing your profits. Moreover Poser already set the standard that a 2D rendering application's output is royalty free and DAZ has gamely gone along with that.

If you 3D print a posed master of that popular character for mass reproduction aimed at the anime fig collector market, you stand to make serious profits, the physical good has to be intentionally counterfeited to cut into those profits, and DAZ won't see a dime of your money or the counterfeiters' based on their sculpts/rigs.

By making the argument that it's about protecting their IP from reverse engineering rather than opening the can of worms that is royalties, DAZ can stand behind the DMCA and say "how is this not legitimate?" It's almost better than they're not honest about the matter.

Going forward, a new figure not from DAZ needs to address this. I honestly think that if you mass produce a commercial physical good from a mesh, it's reasonable for you and the mesh owner to negotiate royalties. I also think the royalties should be reasonable and affordable and not a hidden disincentive. There's enough money to go around and being indignant that someone had a more profitable idea for using your product than you thought of is stupid. 

The VST industry is a perfect example of people being asinine about this instead of fair, but their market is a lot more docile than 3D modeling ever will be.

 RedPhantom:

It seems the community is very unforgiving about issues in new figures if there are any flaws, even if the problem is fixed quickly, it still goes suffers.

I think V4 has spoiled us to a degree.  I mean it's great she's got all those 3rd party fixes, but it is working against the community when it comes to new figures who could be fixed.  However, V4 wasn't built with poser 9+ in mind and sooner or later something is going to have to replace her.  Something where you don't need to visit 5 different sites to get all the fixes for a character.

Zev0

They already earning money now selling multi figure content. So why do they need their own figure if they already making money just selling content, be it for Daz only, Poser only or both?

Because V4 is getting older for one.  For two, DAZ could decide to stop selling V4/G2/anything that can work in poser and poser users don't need to be at the mercy of that one company.  About everyone I've talked to tells me G3, ie the newest figure, doesn't work at all in poser.  For 3, poser can do things like weightmapping that I don't believe is possible in DS.  For 4, if there's no new products for poser users to buy then rendo's poser userbase will stop buying here and that's going to hurt the bottom line.

AmbientShade

There's nothing that prevents any artist or team from creating and marketing their own figures, for whatever program they want it to work in. If the quality is there, then there will be a customer base for it.

There's nothing stopping teams from making figures, but the issue is those smaller teams can only create so much content and content is king.  The reason daz can create successful figures is partly because they have the connections to get enough vendors to support their newest work.  A lot of vendors just won't make 1-3 items for a 3rd party effort that hasn't been released.  Daz can get that critical mass together.  That's why I think it would take something like Rpublishing or all of RNDA working together to get a new figure off the ground successfully.

It may start with the Vendors, but it ends with the users. It does not matter what figure you build content for if no one buys it, it dies.

Ahhh, well, it's not gonna matter anyway.  The vultures are circling and the carcass is rotting, so we'll soon see how happy the cheerleaders are when DS costs the same as Poser (used to) and figures run $100.00+ a pop.  

This is nothing more than speculation with absolutely no grounding at all. You really need to get over your hate of DS and its users.

Zev0

They already earning money now selling multi figure content. So why do they need their own figure if they already making money just selling content, be it for Daz only, Poser only or both?

Because V4 is getting older for one.  For two, DAZ could decide to stop selling V4/G2/anything that can work in poser and poser users don't need to be at the mercy of that one company.  About everyone I've talked to tells me G3, ie the newest figure, doesn't work at all in poser.  For 3, poser can do things like weightmapping that I don't believe is possible in DS.  For 4, if there's no new products for poser users to buy then rendo's poser userbase will stop buying here and that's going to hurt the bottom line.

DS does weightmapping.

Zev0

They already earning money now selling multi figure content. So why do they need their own figure if they already making money just selling content, be it for Daz only, Poser only or both?

Because V4 is getting older for one.  For two, DAZ could decide to stop selling V4/G2/anything that can work in poser and poser users don't need to be at the mercy of that one company.  About everyone I've talked to tells me G3, ie the newest figure, doesn't work at all in poser.  For 3, poser can do things like weightmapping that I don't believe is possible in DS.  For 4, if there's no new products for poser users to buy then rendo's poser userbase will stop buying here and that's going to hurt the bottom line.

Not sure I understand point two, in four years I have shopped three times at Daz two were free items for V4 and M4 and the other order was when they had a sale on some space crafts.  Daz stopped providing content for my Vicky many moons ago. The diversification and saturation of the market is all ready impacting the bottom line and I think it can only get worse, at least in the short to medium term.  I am really not sure another figure helps that situation at all.

Isn't RenderFx also connected to Renderosity?  If it is, they have been involved with the vendor who created on of the recent female figures.  Granted Sixus1 is the only listing on the vendor line for Scarlet.  However, all of the content available in the store for the figure has RenderFx along with Sixus on the vendor line. 

Because V4 is getting older for one.  For two, DAZ could decide to stop selling V4/G2/anything that can work in poser and poser users don't need to be at the mercy of that one company.  About everyone I've talked to tells me G3, ie the newest figure, doesn't work at all in poser.

Does that really matter? V4, Genesis 2 and 3 Items are top of the charts here. That's mainly DS users buying the G3 stuff since it's Daz only. Same story for Iray shaders. As long as people are shopping at Rendo, I do not see a problem? If Daz users are spending more here than Poser users, do you think Rendo is going to complain about a lack of Poser support in products? They are happy as long as content sells, be it Daz exclusive or not, and be it Daz users or Poser users that are buying.

We seem to get threads like this every few years.

The answer is the same as it's always been, a figure in itself isn't a huge financial investment, but supporting it so it doesn't end up like all the rest is.

Right from the start Daz have had the smarts to know that a new figure needs to have quite a bit of content available at launch, so they take the financial gamble and "hire" vendors to make content for it before it's launched, that way they have a stockpile of content to release over the first month after the figure is released, it's this support that gives the other vendors the confidence to move over to the new figure, that and the six previous generations of figures Daz have created.

For a figure to remove V4 from the top of the Poser tree it's going to have to be done the Daz way, and that's a huge investment, that company also wont have the history of figure support that Daz does, so giving the vendors the confidence to jump on their figure really wont be easy, HiveWire did try but lets be honest Dawn didn't even get close to giving Vicky a scare.

"Ahhh, well, it's not gonna matter anyway.  The vultures are circling and the carcass is rotting, so we'll soon see how happy the cheerleaders are when DS costs the same as Poser (used to) and figures run $100.00+ a pop."

Just once I would like to see at least a gratuitous attempt to explain the "logic",rationale,or even religous faith in this oft repeated assertion that:

If poser goes away Daz will become some ravenous, price gouging predator that makes people wish for the good old pre-genesis days of milk & honey

I see two likely prevailing scenarios,

First lets start with what would likely happen if SM Closed shop/Dumped poser as abandonware etc. and there were no new versions of poser being released after poser 11/ pro 2015.

The majority of the poser faithful would likely keep& use their current poser version until their computer OS's ( windows 14 or ,Mac OS 13 "yellowstone" or whatever) would no longer run its executable.

Market effect on DAZ = Zero

Some would actually crawl out of their myopic little boxes and venture into the larger more diverse world of 3D figure related rendering.

Market effect on DAZ= temporary,short term uptick in content sales as new DS users rush to get up to date with the latest Genesis iteration,

This would soon be tempered by the inevitable boredom with the same V-chick"booty ware" and "bishyboy" male hair& clothing.

In either scenario I can not see why one would think that the Classic "loss leader"business model ,currently being implemented by DAZ, would inexplicably be abandoned in favor of some punitive,price intensive money grab that would most assuredly chase away the current user base they have so cleverly curated .

I remember when not long ago some people were arrogantly boasting "we don't need no stinkin' content" shooting down the opinion of those that stated that content is vital for this market.

Now that V4 (and in general Poser specific) content is dwindling away the same people are looking for some saviour to provide the previously not so necessary content.

As Spock said, amusing. Even more amusing are the first pages of Rendo market. It is a Genesis/Iray litany, just a step below DAZ market. I am waiting for the day in which there won't be a single Poser specific product in the whole first page.

I am waiting for the day in which there won't be a single Poser specific product in the whole first page.

Yep, just like I said..........vultures circling.

Lol your "vultures" are the same content developers, just that they switching figure platforms and support.

I remember when not long ago some people were arrogantly boasting "we don't need no stinkin' content" shooting down the opinion of those that stated that content is vital for this market.

Now that V4 (and in general Poser specific) content is dwindling away the same people are looking for some saviour to provide the previously not so necessary content.

As Spock said, amusing. Even more amusing are the first pages of Rendo market. It is a Genesis/Iray litany, just a step below DAZ market. I am waiting for the day in which there won't be a single Poser specific product in the whole first page.

Lol agreed. "We don't need to buy content, we can just convert this and that via fitting room". Now they complain when people aren't offering as much content support for their app? Funny indeed. Same story with DSON. "We hate DSON, we will never use it." Now that DSON support is being dropped they want to get upset.

Please, don't derail this thread.  Keep it on topic, which is about a new character.

This is all relative regarding a new figure why it should or should not be created and sold and how viable it would be regarding Rendo.

This is all relative regarding a new figure why it should or should not be created and sold and how viable it would be regarding Rendo.

Why does a pro-daz person such as yourself even care if rendo does a poser only figure?

Lol don't come get angry with me just because I pointed out flaws with your idea. Ok let's create a scenario. Say Rendo releases this new Poser only figure. Now, how will it get content developers to create content for it? Why should they develop for it? What guarantees are there that revenue for it will be better than what they are supporting right now? Content developers have seen way too many new figures come and go and supporting them was a financial flop. So, how do you convince them that this figure is one they must support? Does the developer have any credibility in this regard? Do you have a plan in action for that? It's all nice wanting to create a new figure, but without the correct support structures, it will fail hard. Period. So, what support structures do you recommend that hasn't been tried before?

And FYI, A new Poser only figure is very niche market. It will only cater for those with app versions that support WM, unless you want it using old tech. Look at V4. Why is it successful? Because it can be used in nearly all versions of Poser and Daz. That is a huge user base. So why would content for a niche figure with a smaller market appeal be a viable decision regarding content support? Does that make any sense? You people come up with these ideas without thinking through it properly and get upset when people point out why it didn't work when it failed. Before creating a figure, look at the market, who can use actually use it, look what it is up against, then decide if its worth the effort.

I remember when not long ago some people were arrogantly boasting "we don't need no stinkin' content" shooting down the opinion of those that stated that content is vital for this market.

Now that V4 (and in general Poser specific) content is dwindling away the same people are looking for some saviour to provide the previously not so necessary content.

As Spock said, amusing. Even more amusing are the first pages of Rendo market. It is a Genesis/Iray litany, just a step below DAZ market. I am waiting for the day in which there won't be a single Poser specific product in the whole first page.

Lol agreed. "We don't need to buy content, we can just convert this and that via fitting room". Now they complain when people aren't offering as much content support for their app? Funny indeed. Same story with DSON. "We hate DSON, we will never use it." Now that DSON support is being dropped they want to get upset.

I am not going to argue with any of that, it may apply to some people but please don't lump that description on all Poser users.  I still use V4WM, I am not looking for a 'saviour' to provide content but that does not stop me looking at the new figures. I did say I would not use DSON, I have never used DSON and I am not at all upset, in fact I understand why, the support has been dropped.

Surely we are all individuals here, whether we use DS, Poser or any other 3D software.  Some may be desperate for a new Poser figure while others are really not bothered and others fill all the shades in between.  Sweeping statements aimed at any perceived group does not really help the discussion.

I was mainly speaking about the vocal ones. Regardless, in the greater scale of things, it look that outlook pretty much cemented itself. Maybe not with all users, but definitely with others. Large enough to cause this shift.

 **duanemoody **there wouldn't need to be any backward engineering.you can remesh a mesh with 1 click now to change there topology.

&  http://www.cgtrader.com/xiaoxunyue2014 it's Vicky ya can tell buy the topology ,apparently no one cares.

There's Michelle and Dawn they seem to be doing ok. and we all know where to get birds from.

I've kind of wondered why Renderosity hasn't released there own characters. 

but if Renderosity does release there own characters. 

how do we know it will be for all Poser versions ? 

If I was RPublishing I'd releases a SubD mesh for Max ,Maya, Houdini ,Poser ,DAZ Studio etc etc but it would only work in 10 ,Pro 14.

I can make a character .

I can sell it here for $50.00 and hear a lot of noise or I can sell it at turbo for a $500.00 and no noise.

Where would you sell yours ? 

and there's no one stopping any one from making a Poser character.

instead of depending on others to do it for you ,your get a lot farther a lot faster if you do it your self. 

"And FYI, A new Poser only figure is very niche market. It will only cater for those with app versions that support WM, unless you want it using old tech. Look at V4. Why is it successful? Because it can be used in nearly all versions of Poser and Daz."

Correct sir and  as long as SM insists on keeping" backward compatibility" withold poser tech, any attempt at a "new" or "advanced" poser figure will be dead on arrival.

By continuing to support older version of poser they are essentially competing with their older selves in the market place.

But this entire thread is moot as the recent disasterously epic fail from SIXUS will soon take its rightful place in the rubbish bin of poser history along all with Dawn & all the others

I doubt anyone will bother to undertake creating any new Commercial attempt at a new poser female in the foreseeable future.

Oh I'm pretty sure we will see more figures trying their luck. Nothing wrong with that to be honest. But please, please, I hope it isn't hyped as a vicky killer or the next best thing, if it has no chance becoming so commercially. That will just lead to an early death if false promises are made. To make a commercially successful figure takes a hell of a lot of planning and finance with crap loads of marketing and most importantly, has the backing of a company or party that has a reputation for making commercially successful figures in the past. WIthout the last bit, people will always doubt it's credibility, specially content developers. Content developers need insurance that what they are supporting will take off, otherwise they won't even bother wasting their time. Some will test the waters at first, but others who have been in this game long enough know the risks. Also it has to be easy to develop for and be versatile enough to do what you want. That has to be there in the foundation of the figure before the other aspects apply.

I also think if ya going to compete with V7 ya need her very own software made just for her and a store as big as these stores.
I have no idea why any one would want to compete with a 10 year old mesh. 

HW3D seems to be hanging in there. they seem to like nature a lot.
I wouldn't say SIXUS is a failure .SIXUS is one of the best CGI Artist there is.

but RorrKonn has the next epic fail for the rubbish bin of Poser history. right here. LMAO.
There's going to be a mech tank,mech robot,mech female,mech dude. 
for all the CGI App's Poser ,Daz ,Houdini ,Maya ,Max ,Blender in game style.
So if one app doesn't like it ,doesn't mean a thing.

I can sell it here for $50.00 and hear a lot of noise or I can sell it at turbo for a $500.00 and no noise.

lol yep. That's one of the smartest things you've said in a while. Less risk of piracy too.

Winterclaw, I love ya man, but enough with the chicken little. 

You are asking for the same release strategy as V4 release.  Those days are gone and they are never coming back - DAZ can't even manage that with their current figure - the reason there is more content for genesis 3 here than over at DAZ is because there are literally only a handful of vendors making content for it over there. Only the Cool Kid vendors had visibility on it before release - everybody else got blindsided.  An interesting 2nd order effect will be seeing how that affects sales for any vendor that isn't one of the Cool Kids. The vendors here at 'Rosity (and to a lesser extent at RDNA) may suck all of the oxygen out of the room before they get going.  The shake out over there will be interesting in the coming months.  It is noticeable over there how some vendors are more equal than others.  The genesis 3 release looks just like the release of any other figure not named Victoria 4.  113 items (to include converted genesis 2 (or earlier content) iray shaders, poses & bundles in a month  - not my definition of a flood)  Hell, even the customers in the DAZ forums have noticed that the walled garden is getting a little smaller. 

About your manifesto:

1.  This is not quantifiable - looks good means different things to different people.

2.  This is not quantifiable.  No amount of bending capability is going to please everyone - JHC, we can bend any damned figure into a pretzel now.  And here is a little secret - most people aren't using Poser/DS to make yoga scenes.

1. This is not quantifiable - just who decides what constitutes unnecessary?

4.  This certainly makes sense.

5.  We have this with figures already.  They were also rejected.

6.  We have had this with other figures already - initial burst, then nothing - because no figure will sell as much on it's initial roll out as V4 will after 8 years of user purchases.

7.  That is a valid requirement, but see #5.

8.  This is contradictory.  To take full advantage of Poser capabilities, you have to let go of legacy processes.

9.  Maybe the programmers at SM could add this feature to Poser - Perhaps they could call it THE FITTING ROOM.  And for the people that are too cheap to upgrade Poser, there is Xdresser, Wardrobe Wizard, and Morphing Clothes - some of which have been around for nearly a decade already.  Really, you should look around and see what features are actually available in or with Poser. 

10.  Good idea - then we could have a week of people savaging the figure before it was actually released and everyone could see it - that would really help sales figures.

I don't know where you have been, but every time a new figure is released, we go through the same rigamarole.

1.  A number of people will savage the figure based on metrics that they would never apply to their preferred figure in a million years.  Ever notice how people never compare a new figure to a stock V4, but instead the standard is a V4 with a 8 years of correction products attached. 

That is the difference between the DAZ figures and every other figure - the DAZ figures have a million correction products made for them, 3rd party ones don't.  That isn't just legacy figures like V4 - genesis 2 has just as many - which I find amusing since we have been told repeatedly have the genesis line IS THE BESTEST, MOST REALISTIC SET OF FIGURES EVAH!!!!  Oh look, another correction product for genesis 2 was released over on DAZ today.

2.  The usual suspects will drop converting their handful of products from the last g figure to the current g figure and disrupt every single thread on every storefront. 

When they could be doing something more productive, like asking DAZ why the entire genesis 2 female lineup doesn't have a single figure or character that has eyebrows that follow the eye socket.  Seriously, WTF is up with that?  I am going to have to drag every single head texture (100+) into PE & manually rotate and resize the eyebrows to match the mesh to actually use the product.

3.  The Luddites will scream poverty and whine about how they don't want to give up V4 and can't move to a new figure and they don't want to learn any feature that was added to Poser over the last decade.

4.  V4 vendors will whine that any new figure will not have the same sales base as the 8 year old V4 from day one.  The fact that it took both almost giving V4 content away for months and every storefront aligning with V4 before the figure became viable. Not to mention the fact that everyone seems to have forgotten all of the issues that V4 had upon release.  Vendors aren't going to make anything for a new figure, because they don't want to - and you can't make us - neeneer, neener, neener.  Vendors simply don't look long-term.  This is a rehash of the We don't make male clothing because it interferes with our artistic vision. 

OTOH - Project E is coming and it should be just what you are looking for.

OTOH - Project E is coming and it should be just what you are looking for.

Yet another entry in the long list of saviours. Meanwhile, in the real world, the RPublishing collective of this thread title is churning out G2/G3/Iray content.

OTOH - Project E is coming and it should be just what you are looking for.

Yet another entry in the long list of saviours. Meanwhile, in the real world, the RPublishing collective of this thread title is churning out G2/G3/Iray content.

So what?  There is a whole lot of stuff sold here for Vue, Bryce, Photoshop, etc.  Why the sudden panic? There is a bit of g3 content here, because there isn't very much at DAZ.   Genesis 3 is just another niche figure, just like any other post-V4 figure.  If you look closely, you would know there are only about a couple dozen vendors (at best) making content for the genesis series on a regular basis at DAZ and a dozen or so here (with a lot of overlap). 

The only people panicking are the people that are hell-bent that they are not going to leave a Poser 4 workflow and Poser 6 figures behind.  At some point, they need to leave the 1990's and join us in the 21st century.

OTOH - Project E is coming and it should be just what you are looking for.

Yet another entry in the long list of saviours. Meanwhile, in the real world, the RPublishing collective of this thread title is churning out G2/G3/Iray content.

Besides the fact that Project E is currently a remeshed V4 with a lot of JCMs. If it is to be released commercially that mesh has to be done from scratch or it won't last a day in whatever store it ends up in. And it is geared towards porn, so unless that's your thing, I don't see how this will save anyone.