"There's a place for both programs and I never really understood the war between the two."

I understand that when Genesis first came out with no Poser support, Poser users were understandably very upset. What I don't understand is that the grudge has continued for as long as it has -- and moreover that it has gone so far that even users who no longer shop at Daz3d still get angry enough to sustain the argument. I also don't understand why Daz users feel the need to pre-emptively engage in warfare either. I get why they want to correct inaccuracies and myths about DS that are perpetuated in various forums, or to provide support to Poser users wanting to get Gen1 and Gen2 working, but other than that, it makes no sense to even take part in the arguing.

As always, it takes two sides to fight a war. And either side could end it if they just ignored the BS -- especially the personal insults and innuendos -- altogether. But I guess there are always going to be those users who seem to get more enjoyment out of arguing about software than they do actually using it. :D

Anyway, I'm downloading PP11 right now. The list of improvements looks like they come directly from the wishlists at RDNA and here. Plus, they really did add the one thing I said was my number one desire: a selection tool that allows you to select an element without translating it! I'm so happy I could bounce. It's plenty of proof, in any case, that SM was absolutely, totally, and certainly listening to their customers.

If this version is like all past releases.... probably gonna be a buggy mess that won't be fixed for 6 months. I only buy them to save save 30%, so I'll keep my expectations low until I get it downloaded and installed, lol. I just bought the Poser Pro 11 Upgrade ( upgrading from Poser Pro 2014 ) Only $174 until Nov 30th on the smithmicro site, instead of $249.

Just a heads up..... after purchase you'll get download manager links only, so just install the new version and enter your NEW program serial Number to download your files from smithmicro.

Been using for about 8 hours... not impressed... all hype and little substance so far and much slower than Pro 14... the comic mode is really far from comic but the lines are nice but limited... the super fly render engine is hit and miss... still digging into it... but so far not worth the upgrade price and still no DAZ content support sadly :(

If you get a "miss" in Superfly?

What did the Message log tell you? => Message Log icon is in the upper right hand corner next to the Library Bookshelf.

moriador posted at 4:08PM Wed, 18 November 2015 - #4239135

"There's a place for both programs and I never really understood the war between the two."

I understand that when Genesis first came out with no Poser support, Poser users were understandably very upset. What I don't understand is that the grudge has continued for as long as it has -- and moreover that it has gone so far that even users who no longer shop at Daz3d still get angry enough to sustain the argument. I also don't understand why Daz users feel the need to pre-emptively engage in warfare either. I get why they want to correct inaccuracies and myths about DS that are perpetuated in various forums, or to provide support to Poser users wanting to get Gen1 and Gen2 working, but other than that, it makes no sense to even take part in the arguing.

As always, it takes two sides to fight a war. And either side could end it if they just ignored the BS -- especially the personal insults and innuendos -- altogether. But I guess there are always going to be those users who seem to get more enjoyment out of arguing about software than they do actually using it. :D

Anyway, I'm downloading PP11 right now. The list of improvements looks like they come directly from the wishlists at RDNA and here. Plus, they really did add the one thing I said was my number one desire: a selection tool that allows you to select an element without translating it! I'm so happy I could bounce. It's plenty of proof, in any case, that SM was absolutely, totally, and certainly listening to their customers.

This reminds me very much of the platform wars fought by video gamers: Playstation vs Wii vs Xbox vs Dreamcast. The markets are similar in that the success (or even continuation) of your platform of choice depends very much on third party developers. People choose a platform and start putting money into it. They want it to continue. They want their choices validated, as it, in some way validates themselves. The bickering is either a fear of losing out on your investment or a cry of "We're number one!" like a sports fan who says "we" even though they never touched the ball. Trashing the other side will hopefully convince others to join your team, add to the user base, and attract more vendors, which in turn attracts more users. A bit sophomoric though I may have engaged in such antics myself on occasion.

I still miss my Dreamcast, it was way better than the PS2, lol.

"Curious, Daz is free but Poser can cost 200.00 up..why??"

really $200 where? content has it for Digital Full - $139.99 Digital Upgrade from All Previous Versions - $69.99 Physical Full - $139.99 Physical Upgrade from All Previous Versions - $69.99
and poser pro 11 for Full Digital - $349.99 Digital Upgrade Pro 2014, 2012, 2010, Game Dev - $174.99 Digital Upgrade Poser 11, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, Debut - $244.99 Physical Upgrade Pro 2014, 2012, 2010, Game Dev - $174.99 Physical Upgrade Poser 11, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, Debut - $244.99 Physical Full - $349.99
if people don't want to pay for poser, then don't. go try Daz studio. but stop posting false information about something they don't know about.

SoulTaker posted at 11:05AM Thu, 19 November 2015 - #4239371

"Curious, Daz is free but Poser can cost 200.00 up..why??"

Really $200 where? and poser pro 11 for Full Digital - $349.99 Digital Upgrade Poser 11, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, Debut - $244.99. Physical Upgrade Pro 2014, 2012, 2010, Game Dev - $174.99. Physical Upgrade Poser 11, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, Debut - $244.99 Physical Full - $349.99.

but stop posting false information about something they don't know about.

I'm confused...

Why has the grudge continued for as long as it has? That's a good question. I left Poser back when Firefly became a thing, and am just now coming back to it as Superfly is being introduced. That kind of makes me an outsider. As an outsider, it seems to me like some childish people are mad that they can't use DAZ's new toys, and other childish people want to keep the bickering going because they didn't get hugged enough or something.

EDIT: Let's not forget the childish people that want everyone to stop liking what they don't like and agree that their toy is the best one.

Xatren posted at 11:31AM Thu, 19 November 2015 - #4239394

Why has the grudge continued for as long as it has? That's a good question. I left Poser back when Firefly became a thing, and am just now coming back to it as Superfly is being introduced. That kind of makes me an outsider. As an outsider, it seems to me like some childish people are mad that they can't use DAZ's new toys, and other childish people want to keep the bickering going because they didn't get hugged enough or something.

EDIT: Let's not forget the childish people that want everyone to stop liking what they don't like and agree that their toy is the best one.

I think it's more tribalism, then just being childish.

And honestly the way it is now is pretty close to pleasant, it has been much much worse in the past.

The difference between D|S & Poser and pricing really comes down to features and what use you'll get with them. DAZ even tried charging for its own Pro version at a time. You really have to try them both to see what works best for you, we all have a different workflow and different uses.

With that said... I do miss free trials of Poser. I've got a really nice 'n' comfy setup with Poser Pro 2014 making me very unsure how much the upgrade will benefit me or even if there are some draw backs or two... that and the Australian dollar being so weak makes it even more of a hit to my almost empty pockets.

Trying to purchase upgrade Poser 11 Pro. Not accepting previous serial number...anyone else having this problem?

Sent SmithMicro email with infl

nerd posted at 11:21AM Thu, 19 November 2015 - #4238937

MistyLaraPrincess posted at 12:13PM Mon, 16 November 2015 - #4238264

any news if new poser will work on non-internet connected pc?

i always buy the box version, hoping it includes everything needed.

does poser library still require adobe product?

thanks.

Poser 11 will need to be activated. But that can be done off line if need be. You will be able to request a perpetual activation in that case.

Flash is gone. Nobody in California builds anything out of mud bricks any more, one little earthquake and it all comes crashing down.

would have to be offline. thanks.

doh, cant even keep my netbook secure from update pushes >.<

does the perpetual key come with the box version?

There is something I really need to ask about and thus, get out of my system: Poser 11, in its NON pro version, cannot do GPU rendering? If so, how can this version even compete with DS4.8? I am more of a Poser animal myself, only recently have I started to fumble with DS (G3... hard to resist). I've seen what the iRay render does, both in terms of quality and speed, and this gets me worried about Poser. Not all of us can cough up more that 300 bucks on their software... I was prepared to buy Poser 11, so I really would need things to be clarified :) Thanks in advance to whoever can do that for me!

GPU rendering only in Pro version.

honzu posted at 1:58PM Sun, 22 November 2015 - #4240253

GPU rendering only in Pro version.

And only on Nvidia cards that support CUDA. Us ATI users are out of luck also.

This all looks good overall but what about comparability with Daz's Genesis figures? Especially Genesis 7? I use Daz figures and people have been screaming for a proper solution to the crappy DSON converter.

Hi Mouser,

The DSON, Gen3/V7, and DS are all DAZ intellectual property and software.

They "could" write a proper plug-in but they do not want you to use Poser. They want you to use DS.

Please FFS stop spreading this crap. DSON is Open source! SM chose NOT to include it in Poser. There is no legal nonsense that says they can't, or any instance where they have to pay Daz to incorporate it. Daz approached them and said "Here guys, this is what we are doing, this is our new figure and format, do you want to include it?" SM said NO. Only viable alternative was Daz creating the DSON importer, a "hack" since at the time they felt the Poser market was still viable to their business, and wanted them to also experience the Genesis platform. However the Poser users gave DSON a big Fuck you, and therefore support was eventually dropped, because Daz could not improve it without SM's help, and SM didn't lift a damn finger in that regard. It is a shame, because via DSON, developers could easily support both platforms. That was the plan. A bridge between the two apps and only DSON provided that, meaning content developers wouldn't have to do everything twice.

Does it make any sense that Daz wouldn't want more of the market using their figures and content? Have an issue with Poser not being compatible with Genesis or their format, go speak to SM. I am sick of these ambassadors repeating the same BS lies to users blaming Daz when they should be pointing fingers at SM. So what did Daz do with Genesis3? They said fine and stopped Poser support, because their user base has expanded so much that Poser as a business model is no longer a viable. Why should they bother anymore when they now have the muscle and market and vendor support to now stand on their own feet? What is SM's response to that? Pauline and Paul.....Great job there...So yes, If you want to use the Genesis platform, use Studio, because support for Poser from Daz is officially over.

Hello Zev0, on your agenda again? Or on the hunt this time? STOP writing this CRAP in a POSER forum.

The ONLY company that can legally write a Plug-in is DAZ.

But they are too high on their island to do that.

OOO the whole "this is Poser forum" defense. Anyways Vilters, believe whatever you want. Trying to explain isn't going to change anything now anyways. I suggest you get back to work to support Pauline and Paul because so far I am hardly seeing anything in the stores. Come on now, get cracking. Content is king remember?

What you fail to understand here is us vendors were all on board to support both platforms. There is plenty of evidence if you look at the earlier content. Unfortunately if one side isn't going to play ball to support the platform that is generating revenue for us, most of us will be forced to choose between the two.

Hey, work that out with DAZ will ya.

Why does everybody keep asking the correct question but to the wrong company?

EVERYBODY wants Gen3/V7 in Poser, but only DAZ can make that happen. Show how much DAZ cares for its vendors.

tonyvilters posted at 9:01AM Mon, 23 November 2015 - #4240438

Hello Zev0, on your agenda again? Or on the hunt this time? STOP writing this CRAP in a POSER forum.

The ONLY company that can legally write a Plug-in is DAZ.

But they are too high on their island to do that.

You had an actual DAZ representative in here telling you directly that that DSON was open source...not sure how much more clear that could have been. Yet there are still people arguing about the legality of it. It is like they really do not want it to be free and available for use. Very weird.

STORES?

I give **** for the stores.

When you can not give it away for free? Keep it.

Wings is free, Anim8or is free, Blender is free.

This is a Poser 11 preview tread.

EVERYBODY wants Gen3/V7 in Poser, but only DAZ can make that happen.

Yes Vilters, like Daz can incorporate the Dual Quaternions for SM. Again, shows how little you know.

Show how much DAZ cares for its vendors.

Umm more vendors are now developing for Daz? Most important factor for a vendor is possible revenue generated. In that case I would say Daz cares very much.

More vendors building for DS? Good for you. So what are you doing here again?

Let me help you: a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h,i,j,k,l,m,n;o;p

Yes the D comes before the P. You should be able to find the DAZ/DS forum sooner then the Poser forum.

tonyvilters posted at 5:13PM Mon, 23 November 2015 - #4240449

STORES?

I give **** for the stores.

When you can not give it away for free? Keep it.

Umm some of us do this for a living. This is our jobs? Very silly comment to make actually.

tonyvilters posted at 5:20PM Mon, 23 November 2015 - #4240455

Let me help you: a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h,i,j,k,l,m,n;o;p

Yes the D comes before the P.

Couldn't agree more. Daz is ahead of Poser. Anyways back to Poser11.....Just popped in to clear up some things.

My spider senses are tingling.

Somebody is getting nervous.

A community that is collectively waking up after a 16 years of coma (1999 Victoria 1) and wrapping up their sleeves, all these talks about Cycles and Blender, chilling mentions to MakeHuman and similar tools, questions about G3/V7 restricted to two low activity threads (one here, one on RDNA)... yes, it is a different atmosphere, especially since in this environment DAZ has either to "de-emphasize" DAZ Connect or go on and start really losing customers...

Poser ranters have one thing in common: they actually do love Poser, but its flaws are so disapointing to them. It's like saying: "YAY POSER, .... oh , oh,oh. bummer. bummer again. sigh". But that's one thing, that those "you-are-either-with-us-or-our-enemy-people" just don't want to understand. This Poser community feels like being in a religious cult.

Dual quaternion skinning is not the stumbling block; DAZ doesn't own the IP rights to dual quaternion skinning. DQ does not constitute the sum of the Genesis standard.

DSON may be freely usable, but it is not the Genesis standard. DSON is merely a (half-baked) exporting utility/format. It doesn't work well on G1 and not much at all for G3; why would Poser want to incorporate it?

Blender won't be adopting Genesis for the same reason SM doesn't: DAZ established protected IP restrictions on the Genesis protocol. Blender could accommodate Roxie, Dawn, and Pauline - if they think it worthwhile.

I keep seeing these posts expressing "concern" for Poser, if SM do not adopt Genesis (which they legally can't do). I'm wondering just how rosy things are at DAZ, because there is a group of DAZ vendors who seem to invest a lot of their time keeping watch on Poser forums, and spending much time propagandizing in Poser forums. I use that term advisedly, because I can't believe that they don't know the distinction between DQ and the IP-protected Genesis system, and I can't believe that they don't know the difference between the Genesis system and the open DSON utility/format. So I can only conclude that the conflation between terms (DQ vs Genesis, DSON vs Genesis) is intentional deception.

chaecuna posted at 6:13PM Mon, 23 November 2015 - #4240470

My spider senses are tingling.

Somebody is getting nervous.

A community that is collectively waking up after a 16 years of coma (1999 Victoria 1) and wrapping up their sleeves, all these talks about Cycles and Blender, chilling mentions to MakeHuman and similar tools, questions about G3/V7 restricted to two low activity threads (one here, one on RDNA)... yes, it is a different atmosphere, especially since in this environment DAZ has either to "de-emphasize" DAZ Connect or go on and start really losing customers...

Yes..Just like your other assumption in the Daz forums that Pauline content is coming in droves and that Daz should watch out. And you made that assumption based on the 9 products that were released. So forgive me if I don't really take your assumption about Daz connect and them losing customers. What was it you said?

"There are 9 just released products for Pauline in Rendo marketplace, many of them developer's oriented. For the first time, I see third party traction on SM figures. Apparently, the nightmare of a market completely monopolized by DAZ and captive in the cloud is spurring content providers to action. "The more you tighten your grip...".

So that was day one..Where is the rest? Even Dawn had more traction at release.

_ I'm wondering just how rosy things are at DAZ, because there is a group of DAZ vendors who seem to invest a lot of their time keeping watch on Poser forums, and spending much time propagandizing in Poser forums._

Things are very rosy not that you would actually believe anything we say. Not that it really is part of this conversation. So...correcting false statements is propaganda? Sounds to me that spreading false comments in the first place is propaganda. And FYI some of us spend plenty of times in all the forums. But ye..this place seems like a cult that some are not allowed to join.....

PA's are concerned in the simple reasoning that they like to keep watch over the whole of the market so that they know what is or isn't relevant. This way we can continue to bring the most fully featured products that we can. Why some seem intent to wanna portray PA's as being against poser, I don't know. The exact opposite is true. Many of us started in poser, and would like to see poser become a viable market again. Do we NEED the poser market to survive?...not at all, but that doesnt mean we dont like it. The market has strongly shifted to D/S, because Daz has made some really wise decisions...and we would like to see poser do the same. Because we actually care...simple as that.

Nerd3D stated in a thread over at RDNA that they DID in fact approach Daz about genesis compatibility before they released P11, but Daz was not interested.

Umm a bit too late don't you think? Why would Daz be interested now when it's not really part of their business plan anymore? This level of interest had to happen during G1 days. It is too late now. Daz has already moved on, so have most content developers. SM wanted to go on their own path, well now they need to walk it.

It is a valid question, but asked to the wrong company.

They should ask DAZ : " Is Gen3/V7 compatible with Poser 11 Pro? "

If DAZ and its vendors want to sell to the Poser customers, it is up to them to make it Poser compatible. It is as simple as that.

If Poser is not in the DAZ business plan any more? Why do you guys keep invading Poser forums?

Be my guest : Feel free to go, and have a nice day.

Look...lets face facts, the native poser figures all really suck. Poser figures have always been sub-par, because as was pointed out, poser is a software company, not a content company. They really dont care about content. But the problem with that thinking is without content, what is poser really good for? Throwing in a new render engine will not bring more life into the program, specially if all the content that is available has been designed for the old one anyway. New life comes from new figures, and even the SM reps say that Pauline was released unfinished. So they really don't care...and as such why should product makers care? Content is the lifeblood of the program. Without it, you got nothing.

seachnasaigh posted at 2:43PM Mon, 23 November 2015 - #4240477

DSON may be freely usable, but it is not the Genesis standard. DSON is merely a (half-baked) exporting utility/format. It doesn't work well on G1 and not much at all for G3; why would Poser want to incorporate it?

DSON is the native Daz Studio format - the .duf and .dsf files are written in DSON.

One point of clarification. Zev 0 is NOT a Daz Representative. He does not speak for Daz 3d. This does not mean his statements were incorrect, just that we want to be very clear that he speaks for himself. and not Daz 3d as a company.

Rawnrr posted at 3:11PM Mon, 23 November 2015 - #4240448

You had an actual DAZ representative in here telling you directly that that DSON was open source...not sure how much more clear that could have been. Yet there are still people arguing about the legality of it. It is like they really do not want it to be free and available for use. Very weird.

DAZ_kevin posted at 3:25PM Mon, 23 November 2015 - #4240553

One point of clarification. Zev 0 is NOT a Daz Representative. He does not speak for Daz 3d. This does not mean his statements were incorrect, just that we want to be very clear that he speaks for himself. and not Daz 3d as a company.

Rawnrr posted at 3:11PM Mon, 23 November 2015 - #4240448

You had an actual DAZ representative in here telling you directly that that DSON was open source...not sure how much more clear that could have been. Yet there are still people arguing about the legality of it. It is like they really do not want it to be free and available for use. Very weird.

I was not talking about Zevo.....I was talking about Bruce LOL I would never think Zev0 would be talking for anyone but himself

Rawn

Seeing as there is already so much wrong/twisted, blatant lie and outright misinformation about Daz 3d in this thread, I thought it was important to be VERY clear, lest anyone mistake what was said.

Rawnrr posted at 3:29PM Mon, 23 November 2015 - #4240555

DAZ_kevin posted at 3:25PM Mon, 23 November 2015 - #4240553

One point of clarification. Zev 0 is NOT a Daz Representative. He does not speak for Daz 3d. This does not mean his statements were incorrect, just that we want to be very clear that he speaks for himself. and not Daz 3d as a company.

Rawnrr posted at 3:11PM Mon, 23 November 2015 - #4240448

You had an actual DAZ representative in here telling you directly that that DSON was open source...not sure how much more clear that could have been. Yet there are still people arguing about the legality of it. It is like they really do not want it to be free and available for use. Very weird.

I was not talking about Zevo.....I was talking about Bruce LOL I would never think Zev0 would be talking for anyone but himself

Rawn

It would be a sad day when anyone mistakes Zev's word for anything official :P

See Rawn, I told you to correct your post because people would think I am a rep the way you posted it. You even confused poor Kevin:) Thanks for clarifying Kev. Anyways..back on topic...

Misinformation goes both ways..

Oh for petes sake if it isn't compatible with the Genesis figures still then just say that it isn't, don't go on about Daz Studio vs Poser it doesn't help anyone. They are both good and both bad applications i just prefer Poser and that's that. If the new Poser11 doesn't work with Genesis7 then I'm not gonna buy it or Genesis 7 for that matter. Its simple if Smith Micro & Daz3d want my money they had better get together & solve this or they both don't get my money. That's all!

Rawnrr posted at 6:57PM Tue, 24 November 2015 - #4240448

You had an actual DAZ representative in here telling you directly that that DSON was open source...not sure how much more clear that could have been. Yet there are still people arguing about the legality of it. It is like they really do not want it to be free and available for use. Very weird.

In case it is open source please provide me a download link to the source code of the DSON importer. I would love to improve it.

Thanks in advance.

Nagra_00_ posted at 8:00PM Tue, 24 November 2015 - #4240703

Rawnrr posted at 6:57PM Tue, 24 November 2015 - #4240448

You had an actual DAZ representative in here telling you directly that that DSON was open source...not sure how much more clear that could have been. Yet there are still people arguing about the legality of it. It is like they really do not want it to be free and available for use. Very weird.

In case it is open source please provide me a download link to the source code of the DSON importer. I would love to improve it.

Thanks in advance.

Or, simpler, a pointer to the page on DAZ website where the license of DSON is shown. It is not complex, is it, dear DAZ_Kevin?