Because I cannot leave well enough alone, I looked into the possibility of importing Genesis 3 into Poser. Here is what I found.

We import Genesis 3 into Poser by converting its weight maps to Triax, save as a subset, then make a Poser Companion file. It works great for the arms, legs, neck; all the regular bones. But, the facial bones are different.

The normal bones have weight maps for rotation controls (Bend, Side to Side, Twist). The facial bones also need weight maps for the translation controls (Up-Down, Left-Right, Front-Back). Since Daz Studio's Triax system does have a zone for translation controls, they implemented "General" Maps that use dual quad bending.

Poser 10 and earlier does not have a weight map zone for translations. Poser 11 added a Smooth Trans zone for weight maps. Pauline uses them for her facial bones.

In my test, I added a translate zone to Genesis 3 Female's Left Nasolabial Lower bone that affects the head and copied in the rotation weight map. The face moves, but there is a problem. Nothing is easy. Compare the following images.

In Daz Studio, X Translate set to Max of 2.0

In Poser 11, X Translate set to Max of .071

It looks like a scaling issue. There might be a workaround. Genesis 3's expressions move the facial bones. They are Enhanced Remote Controls (ERC) morphs. Poser provides a Scale factor for ERCs as seen in the image below.

If I reduce the Scale factor by half or more the morphs sort of look decent. But, it is only a work around. The best way would to scale the intensity of the weight map. But, I have no idea how to do that.

We could wait for DAZ 3D to update the DSON Importer. Given their current attitudes, we'd be waiting until time stops. We could create a python script that would create the smooth translate zones, copy the weight maps, and correct the scaling issue. I have no idea how to do that as well.

If someone with more experience or knowledge could take a look at this, I would deeply appreciate it. I can provide more information if required.

I was thinking you could sell the script. I'd buy it.

Thanks for your time.

Interesting project ... I hope it can eventually work.

They may need to overhaul DSON Importer. ATM, the current version kills the Poser 11 Library which requires an application reboot to restore it.

Willdial, sure looks like you're on to something here. I wish the community would put half as much effort into figuring out how to get Gen3 to work in Poser instead of squabbling. I bet a bar of gold, that we could ALL finally enjoy using Gen3 in Poser. With that said, I'd like to see some of our very smart members rally around this project & lend you a helping hand. Show us that community spirit we all know we have!

Don't forget that the translation units in DS are cm, with 1 OBJ unit = 8 feet. If you are using Poser native units in the Poser translation dial that would be approximately .0083 (assuming I calculated correctly)

Boni posted at 6:40PM Wed, 09 December 2015 - #4243262

Interesting project ... I hope it can eventually work.

I hang out mostly on the Guru thread. Those guys and those that drop by there are Poser geniuses. I would think the folks at DAZ are at least smart and would want some of my bucks going toward Genesis 3. I agree with hborre. It's much better than complaining. I just thought everything had been tried and the results were not what we hope for. This gives us some hope.

And thanks for the heads up regarding the new DSON Importer. I'll hold off updating so they can correct the problems with the update!

Unfortunately the DSON Importer killing the Library interface was not fixed in Poser 11 SR-1.

The DSON Importer was last updated in February. I use the previous version from May 2014, because the latest puts a dent in Genesis 2's left ankle, which is a reported, known issue...

Edited to remove my misquoting of Nerd3D...

3DFineries posted at 10:09AM Fri, 11 December 2015 - #4243313

Willdial, sure looks like you're on to something here. I wish the community would put half as much effort into figuring out how to get Gen3 to work in Poser instead of squabbling. I bet a bar of gold, that we could ALL finally enjoy using Gen3 in Poser. With that said, I'd like to see some of our very smart members rally around this project & lend you a helping hand. Show us that community spirit we all know we have!

Would not such community effort be better spent enhancing pauline??

Her " shortcomings" are largely superficial And poser 11 fully supports her rigging.

Why chase a moving target.

Poser 11 has a gorgeous rendering engine. It would be great to be able to bring G3 into P11 for rendering. I hope this project continues. Cheerio lululee

hborre posted at 8:45AM Fri, 18 December 2015 - #4243280

They may need to overhaul DSON Importer. ATM, the current version kills the Poser 11 Library which requires an application reboot to restore it.

Hats off to Richard Haseltine, who suggested I try unchecking show progress bar in Scripts>DSON Support>Importer Preferences, which seems to have fixed the Library issue for me for now...

That's good to know. You can also use the IE browser to load poses and mat textures by drag and drop.

Oops! Looks like Poser 11 SR1 finally broke DSON. Worked fine before the update.

Further investigation reveals that only Genesis 2 loads in weirdly, Genesis is fine.

I just loaded the Genesis 2 Maleand Mei Lin 6 and they both loaded fine. I'm using the last Beta version of the importer, 1.1.3.49...

I've reloaded the 1.1.3.49 beta version and still the same result with base G2F, Aiko, and Victoria 6. I don't have Mei Lin 6 loaded yet, but Michael 6 works without any problems. Maybe if I reload the base files again. Strange though, she worked before the SR1 update.

V6 loads fine for me. I do have the Writable Runtime Folder in the DSON Importer Preferences set to the same location as the PP2014 Importer so I don't have two sets of conversion files floating around...

You might try clearing the cache from Scripts>DSON Importer>Importer preferences. It's might be that something has been corrupted but isn't being overwritten.

Hmmm... Apparently one can't quote the first post of a thread here...

Willdial said, in the first post; "We import Genesis 3 into Poser by converting its weight maps to Triax, save as a subset, then make a Poser Companion file. It works great for the arms, legs, neck; all the regular bones. But, the facial bones are different."

I tried that today in PP11 SR1, and I still get the separate bend and twist actors in the limbs, but the bends look good. with skinning set (as loaded) as Poser traditional, but the face bones don't work (I'm finding them the face bones' dials via the dependency Editor for some of the expressions, as I can't find them elsewhere, even in the Setup Room). When it is is set to single skin, the right face bones work, but not the left, even after mirroring the rig. Of course, the bending is messed up with that skinning...

hborre posted at 8:02AM Sun, 20 December 2015 - #4244898

Oops! Looks like Poser 11 SR1 finally broke DSON. Worked fine before the update.

The answer for this issue is available is here

I've continue on the process to bring Genesis 3 into Poser 11. I've setup the scale and translate vertex weight maps for all the 66 facial bones. I found the translate weight map need to be set to 15% intensity to match how it looks in Daz Studio. Scale weight maps work fine at full intensity.

Now, it comes down to distribution. I need a script that would add the SmoothScale and SmoothTran parameters to the body parts and the weight maps. However, I can not find a Poser Python method to accomplish this things.

Does anyone know a way to add the SmoothScale, SmoothTran, and Weight Maps with a script?

Nice Work!!

DAZ has liberalized their EULA since the V4WM days, so you should be able to distribute it as a cr2, with instructions on how to export the .obj from the user's copy of Genesis 3 and where it goes. (actually, the .obj can probably be copied from the user's auto-adapted folder after loading Genesis 3)

Here is the EULA; the relevant section is in Section 1.0, Three Dimensional Works...

https://www.daz3d.com/eula

WOW, willdial! What an accomplishment. She looks great. Looking forward to your script or cr2. Cheerio lululee

willdial posted at 11:20PM Sun, 20 December 2015 - #4245062

hborre posted at 8:02AM Sun, 20 December 2015 - #4244898

Oops! Looks like Poser 11 SR1 finally broke DSON. Worked fine before the update.

The answer for this issue is available is here

Thank you. That did the trick.

i think i read the G3 figures using a different weightmapping, not triax.

the G3s don't work in carrara either. frustrating.

willdial, Did you use Dson to bring her into Poser? Cheerio lululee

I would really like to help with this project. Cheerio lululee

lululee posted at 8:37PM Mon, 21 December 2015 - #4245191

willdial, Did you use Dson to bring her into Poser? Cheerio lululee

I use this technique to get Genesis 3 into Poser link

WandaW, Can you tell me how to do this? " I do have the Writable Runtime Folder in the DSON Importer Preferences set to the same location as the PP2014 Importer so I don't have two sets of conversion files floating around... My DSON is in Poser 12 but I have no clue where it is. Cheerio lululee

WandaW, No need for help. got it working. Cheerio lululee

willdial, I now have G3 working quite well in Poser 11. I'd like to "setup the scale and translate vertex weight maps for all the 66 facial bones." Would it be possible to give me a screen shot like the one in your first post that shows the actual number to set them to. Especially the 15%. I am a huge fan of your artwork and ladies. Cheerio lululee

Unfortunately, its not that simple. I wish it was. I used Poser Pro 11's rigging features and weight map copying features to get the setup initial. I used Poser File Editor 3 to copy the weight map text into a form that I could mathematically modify and then had to copy them back in for testing. I used Excel because I couldn't think of anything else. It took me more than three days to get everything working.

Now I need to automate all this. So it only takes seconds.

Hi willdial,
I find this is really interesting. Since you have all of that work done have you experimented with just using the cr2 that exists like WandaW mentioned? Is it possible that there is no need for a script because you have already made the cr2. Also, have you posted any of your findings in the python forum. Another option might be to contact PhilC. He knows a lot about python and maybe he could distribute the script from his store. Also I believe he worked on developing Poser 11. I wish you good luck with this project. If i can do anything to help, let me know. Cheerio lululee

Does the figure work after saving it to the Poser Library and reloading it? If you, you've got your cr2.

However, I could see why you would want to have a script to add the additional rigging, as then you can easily add additional Genesis 3 morphs and characters, which would be very difficult to add to a Poser cr2.

Cage wrote the scripts for adding the weightmapped rigging to V4WM, so I'd contact him and see if he's interested in helping...

I did a different experiment with genesis 2. I stood V4 weightmap (from renderforever.com) and put her in a similar scale and pose to josie teen. Then I tighened V4 to her. The V4 figure with the josieteen morph looked ok but when I bent the knees there was deformity. the rest of her worked pretty well. Love esther

It would be cool, if we had at least an importer like Poser Fusion. Bringing DAZ' G3 baked posing and animations into poser, like Poser Fusion brings Poser figures into LW, 3dSMax and C4D.

All the effort every one has given to get genesis in to Poser. If everyone used all that effort on Dawn ,she'd be beyond killer by now.

RorrKonn posted at 11:43AM Sun, 27 December 2015 - #4245801

All the effort every one has given to get genesis in to Poser. If everyone used all that effort on Dawn ,she'd be beyond killer by now.

Most Poser users are affected by an incurable Stockholm Syndrome w.r.t. DAZ products. The only thing that can stop a Poser user from using DAZ content is to have to leave the brain damaged & damaging Poser UI. Only when DAZ will release Studio only/DRMed/clouded content they will, crying aloud, look somewhere else.

chaecuna posted at 1:03PM Sun, 27 December 2015 - #4245807

RorrKonn posted at 11:43AM Sun, 27 December 2015 - #4245801

All the effort every one has given to get genesis in to Poser. If everyone used all that effort on Dawn ,she'd be beyond killer by now.

Most Poser users are affected by an incurable Stockholm Syndrome w.r.t. DAZ products. The only thing that can stop a Poser user from using DAZ content is to have to leave the brain damaged & damaging Poser UI. Only when DAZ will release Studio only/DRMed/clouded content they will, crying aloud, look somewhere else.

And why not let's go with: SM throws all that old 90s technologie ballast over board and comes with a set of native beautiful, modern, skinning technologie figures next time? People want G3F, because she is a better figure. They just don't see, that ther is no way. Seriousley I'd rather have to have a some of those http://www.turbosquid.com/Search/Artists/Nikola-Dechev[Nikola Dechev figures] full functioning in Poser, but that's not possible either. So better live with reality: There is no G3F in Poser. So let's go on voting for a better Poser some day. Untill then, two top talented Content creators are about to release new figures to look foreward to. Erogenesis and Ali. No need to tell you about Ero anymore, but the other one is known for hair props and Ang2. If you check out his web side, you'll see a wire shaded figure, http://www.mankahoo.com/index.php that could become a new Poser-doll. Looks very promising, and I'm very excited about that release. I hope she'll be released.

Let's keep the discussion technical without the criticism. I don't want to lock a thread that could be helpful.

If you want Nikola Dechev character ,Genesis 1,2 or 3 or any character in Poser ,C4D ,Blender or any app all you half to do is import the mesh ,rigs ,morphs maps etc etc in to that app. your need to tweak or remake the rigs. each morph your half to export one at a time. different apps lighting is reversed so the normal maps might be backwards. different apps black n whites might be backwards for alphas and bumps n displacements. Vector maps don't cross app's so you would need to make a new vector map.

Whole lot of work. Did not mean, I want ND-Models in Poser. I intended to say, that wanting G3F to have fully working in Poser is as far away as having ND-Figures to work with Poser. I am happy that mostley props work in both apps. So leave G3 figures, where they work best, in DAZStudio and give us better Poser with better Poser-figures.

Well it appears currently the only one willing to do all that work for Poser characters are.My Michelle very little content.Sixus1 and they all but crucified Scarlet.Hivewire3D but there not getting a great deal of support. There just doesn't seem to be a lot of a incentive for anyone to make Poser characters ,who want's to do all that work to be ignored ragged or crucified ?

RorrKonn posted at 4:47PM Mon, 28 December 2015 - #4246033

Well it appears currently the only one willing to do all that work for Poser characters are.My Michelle very little content.Sixus1 and they all but crucified Scarlet.Hivewire3D but there not getting a great deal of support. There just doesn't seem to be a lot of a incentive for anyone to make Poser characters ,who want's to do all that work to be ignored ragged or crucified ?

Well I've never tried it myself but I would imagine character creation involves a ton of work, and of course your probably not going to get much traction trying to sell the first couple of generations of a character at the very least because when new they won't have much aftermarket support.

Aftermarket support probably won't take off like a bullet unless the character offers some significant advantages over characters that already have a lot of aftermarket support, so it's a pretty tough road I would imagine.

trobbins67 posted at 2:47AM Tue, 29 December 2015 - #4246078

RorrKonn posted at 4:47PM Mon, 28 December 2015 - #4246033

Well it appears currently the only one willing to do all that work for Poser characters are.My Michelle very little content.Sixus1 and they all but crucified Scarlet.Hivewire3D but there not getting a great deal of support. There just doesn't seem to be a lot of a incentive for anyone to make Poser characters ,who want's to do all that work to be ignored ragged or crucified ?

Well I've never tried it myself but I would imagine character creation involves a ton of work, and of course your probably not going to get much traction trying to sell the first couple of generations of a character at the very least because when new they won't have much aftermarket support.

Aftermarket support probably won't take off like a bullet unless the character offers some significant advantages over characters that already have a lot of aftermarket support, so it's a pretty tough road I would imagine.

To make a completed 2015 CGI character.really not that bad. It's a lot easier then it was back in 2000 The Dark Ages of CGI. If you know human anatomy ,how to make good topology,C4D ,zBrush ,Allegorithmic. you can make a unrigged unmorphed Genesis3 in a week. I've never imported a character in to DAZ Poser So I can't say how long that part would take for sure but a educated guess would be a week or two for rigges and morphs.

I can't say for sure but if I was DAZ Poser I would scan a real person and retopologize her mesh. getting CGI human anatomy to actually look correct is absolutely the most aggravating thing on the planet.the most difficult part of all is to make a pretty girl look pretty.

you can replace C4D ,zBrush ,Allegorithmic.with there counter app's. 6 months to learn each is a fare amount of time.

Getting Vendors to support your character... Merlin ;).

Go to Blender or zBrush or Maya or 3DS forums and see how many people create humanoid rigged characters. It is not a black art for a few wizards, it is a common high-end skill for artists specializing into soft body modeling. The problem is that the number of real professionals who create Poser/Studio related content can be counted with the fingers of at most two hands and most of them are into hard surface (e.g. Stonemason).

Note to Kendra: how did Stonemason became Stonemason? being told that he was a "unique snowflake"? no, being told countless of times that his work royally sucked. After an appropriate amount of Gunnery Sargent Hartman-styled feedbacks, after an appropriate amount of elbow grease, Stonemason became Stonemason. One of the reasons this community does not (and likely will never) grow is the "be good children" attitude.

My bad let me rephrase this you can replace C4D ,zBrush ,Allegorithmic.with there counter app's. 6 months to learn each is a fare amount of time.

Allegorithmic ,3 months is a fare amount of time to learn Allegorithmic .

RorrKonn posted at 9:53AM Tue, 29 December 2015 - #4246136

To make a completed 2015 CGI character.really not that bad. It's a lot easier then it was back in 2000 The Dark Ages of CGI. If you know human anatomy ,how to make good topology,C4D ,zBrush ,Allegorithmic. you can make a unrigged unmorphed Genesis3 in a week.

Ok, so if I know human anatomy. Well I know the leg bone is connected to the. umm. .something or other. Ya, not a clue really. I don't know enough to make bad topology, and most of the programs you mentioned.. well complete mystery. But, I did stay at a Holiday Inn express. Well, not the whole night of course, got thrown out - sort of a long story really. Lol

I think your right on the money though, the big hurdle really is the vendor support, and it's a very strange equation - a new figure won't get widespread support without vendor support, and it's hard to get vendor support until the figure gains widespread support without it. So really I think a new figure has to offer something that will encourage people to use it and continue to support it prior to it really gaining widespread acceptance - which doesn't really seem to happen all that often.

RorrKonn posted at 12:28PM Tue, 29 December 2015 - #4246136

To make a completed 2015 CGI character.really not that bad. It's a lot easier then it was back in 2000 The Dark Ages of CGI. If you know human anatomy ,how to make good topology,C4D ,zBrush ,Allegorithmic. you can make a unrigged unmorphed Genesis3 in a week.

If I could do this, I probably wouldn't be messing with Poser.

However, I'd like to hear more about what Willdial can share about the technical aspects of Poser's modern cr2 structure, as it isn't well documented; the "Unofficial" cr2 documentation is about a decade old and predates weightmapping and Poser's Unimesh and Single-skin. I don't want to see this thread going off topic and locked.

"Go to Blender or zBrush or Maya or 3DS forums and see how many people create humanoid rigged characters. It is not a black art for a few wizards, it is a common high-end skill for artists specializing into soft body modeling The problem is that the number of real professionals who create Poser/Studio related content can be counted with the fingers of at most two hands and most of them are into hard surface (e.g. Stonemason)"

One must also Remember that the models one finds posted in the above mentioned forums are typically built buy people who are now , or aspiring to work in the gaming or movie visual effects industry. They post thier work to show thier modeling/rigging skills to thier contemporaries or potential employers.

The poser "market" ,as I have seen it here, is only interested in Northern European Female models with realisticly bending joints so she looks "realistic" in her naked renders and an endless supply of female clothing to dress her for internet gallery stills.

No story telling, no animation, no VFX work............. just her Standing there.

you are not going to find Many real "pros" willing to invest time in this paradigm.

wolf359 posted at 10:11PM Thu, 31 December 2015 - #4246567

The poser "market" ,as I have seen it here, is only interested in Northern European Female models with realisticly bending joints so she looks "realistic" in her naked renders and an endless supply of female clothing to dress her for internet gallery stills.

No story telling, no animation, no VFX work............. just her Standing there.

you are not going to find Many real "pros" willing to invest time in this paradigm.

Add to the picture that this is a community of people who don't buy stuff at 9.95$ because they are waiting for it to be discounted to 4.95$, while on TurboSquid prices start from an order of magnitude more and are never discounted. Why spend your time creating a 29.95$ fully featured character which sells next to no copies when you can sell for 79$ a single tooth?

chaecuna posted at 3:52PM Thu, 31 December 2015 - #4246623

wolf359 posted at 10:11PM Thu, 31 December 2015 - #4246567

The poser "market" ,as I have seen it here, is only interested in Northern European Female models with realisticly bending joints so she looks "realistic" in her naked renders and an endless supply of female clothing to dress her for internet gallery stills.

No story telling, no animation, no VFX work............. just her Standing there.

you are not going to find Many real "pros" willing to invest time in this paradigm.

Add to the picture that this is a community of people who don't buy stuff at 9.95$ because they are waiting for it to be discounted to 4.95$, while on TurboSquid prices start from an order of magnitude more and are never discounted. Why spend your time creating a 29.95$ fully featured character which sells next to no copies when you can sell for 79$ a single tooth?

Create a character that's worth $29.95 and my guess is it would sell - I certainly would pay that for a high quality character, the key words being high quality. If I can get roughly the same quality from a character that only costs $4.99 or $9.99 then yes, I'd be stupid not to buy the less expensive one.

Figure models? Well for non-human figures depending on what it is, I've bought more than a few. For human figures? Not much point in investing a ton of money in something I have to spend tons and tons of time creating content for to use, so yes I tend to stick with the ones that have aftermarket vendor support. My free time to spend on 3d is limited, so I try to make the most of it when I can. If that offends someone else's delicate sensibilities, well so be it I guess.