can rmp survey, which s/w people most shopping content for?

like:

Poser7

Poser10

PoserPro12

PoserPro14

DS4.6

DS4.7

DS4.8

DS4.9

Carrara8,5

Blender#

thanks. so many shading systems now >.<

poserpro14 and poser11

I think they do ask that in their annual surveys.

I'm curious as to why though, just use what you enjoy. If you create imagery use the software you prefer. If you create content you don't need a survey to tell you what customers buy the most from you, your sales tell you that. From some they may buy for Poser and from others from Studio. shrug

3-DArena posted at 9:32AM Mon, 04 January 2016 - #4247162

I think they do ask that in their annual surveys.

I'm curious as to why though, just use what you enjoy. If you create imagery use the software you prefer. If you create content you don't need a survey to tell you what customers buy the most from you, your sales tell you that. From some they may buy for Poser and from others from Studio. shrug

And this precisely why I don't buy from you (and a number of other vendors) anymore.

Your sales don't tell you what customers are looking for. It ONLY tells you which items are in an intersection between what you make & what customers want.

That intersection though is what frankly pays the bills. I spent many years trying to give customers exactly what they claimed they wanted in forums, in private messages and via requests. The reality is that rarely ever paid enough for the time I put into it. So which is right? What customers ask for and say they want or the results of the sales by those (apparent majority for any specific vendor) that actually buy the products and therefore vote with their money? From complaints in the forum it would seem more people want V4 & Poser items. However, keep in mind that there are only a handful of the same people making those posts, the rest are quiet about it because they are getting what satisfies them already. People only make noise when they aren't.

Although that handful of people is just as important as others the reality is that vendors competing with each other are not going to be able to make ends meet on that number of sales. The truth is that money is still tight for many people, when a customer makes a decision to spend their money on something that is something that I (and most vendors) greatly appreciate, because very few people spend without giving it consideration. Making that choice to spend their hard earned money tells vendors what software and figure the majority of that vendor's customer base is using.

To create for Poser is generally to create for V4. In my personal case, selling for V4 became not only redundant (because most everything for her has already been done - and even with the new Poser software she is still the primary figure and so that still applies) but sales were at a crawl. Sure there were repeat customers that bought most everything, but not enough of them. I didn't want to switch to studio, I love poser and I found it easier to work with. I had to spend several hundred dollars to upgrade my system to work with DAZ Studio because that's where my income increase was. I didn't want to do that. I kept holding out, hoping Poser based sales would increase until I had no choice, based on what my personal sales were showing.

In order to work with V4 in a manner that I feel would satisfy customers I would have to create 2 sets of shaders for Poser and 2 sets of shaders for Studio, and let's be honest, no one wants to pay for the work involved in that. That isn't to say I won't do it in the future, there are a few things I've considered. However, I'm not sure sales on Poser items would outweigh the cost of the software at this point, not for a long time. Furthermore if I did create for Poser I'd have to do so for V4 which would require 4 sets of shaders. Perhaps I could/should market them separately. Product for Poser, product for Studio.

I still take requests, but those requested items rarely earn the same, I do them out of appreciation for the customer that takes the time to ask for them. I have not, personally, received a request to go back to doing things for V4, nor a request for Poser items in almost 2 years, prior to that I was getting requests to provide for Studio. Many of my regular customers for V4 items now buy for Studio as well. So it may be an intersection of what I offer and what is bought, but it is a comparative intersection based on almost 15 years in this industry.

V4 is not the only model out there for Poser.. Ever tried making something for Dawn? The interest for her is growing, actually

Hi @MistyLaraPrincess-- Which forum were you wanting this thread to be in? I'd be happy to move it for you! Thanks so much!

DreaminGirl posted at 4:45PM Mon, 04 January 2016 - #4247221

V4 is not the only model out there for Poser.. Ever tried making something for Dawn? The interest for her is growing, actually

No V4 is not the only model for Poser, but the most viable one.

Yes I did create for Dawn, I've actually created for most figures (except Scarlet) in the almost 15 years I've been doing this (including commissions for CP for Miki and Sydney). Not much for Dawn left in my store as they went through clearance. Despite that, I have been keeping an eye on Dawn but have yet to feel that she is the next "go to girl" for Poser. When I don't see much coming out for her offered by her own creators it doesn't garner a lot of faith in the model. When said creators worked with V4 there was a lot more support on their end, be that staff created outfits or commissioned/buyouts. I don't see that support for Dawn and if they don't see a value in that it doesn't encourage vendors either. There are a few things for her I've considered, and I haven't ruled her out yet, but I'm not currently compelled to create products for her as they have not paid off for me in the past (and from what other vendors discuss it didn't pay off for others either). I've considered a few items for her, but have not really been inspired to do so yet.

For example at Hivewire there are 189 clothing items for Dawn in about a year and a half, 42 of those are bundle/stack products which makes them redundant listings. Of those only 6 are Hivewire products. Yes there are those by their exclusive staff/vendors, however if the company itself isn't supporting Dawn beyond 6 products I'm not sure how much interest there is, not enough for Hivewire to create more themselves, or commission or do buyouts. After all these are the same people that made DAZ what it is today. They have the same marketing staff and they know how to be successful. I actually know and like most of their current staff and have worked well with them in the past, I'd love to see them succeed with Dawn, you have no idea how much I wanted to see that.

There are some beautiful dynamic outfits for Dawn that I personally adore but again, it's not Hivewire items, the lack of which is my concern regarding Dawn.

While I still use V4 there is no way I am going to buy any more products for her as I have runtimes full. I am buying for Dawn but almost all of that is at Hivewire3D and the rest at RDNA..

As a really annoyed Prime member here I am not spending at all but if something special for Dawn came out I am sure I could be tempted to reach for my credit card. I can't think of much else that would tempt me though.

hopeandlove posted at 10:22AM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247222

Hi @MistyLaraPrincess-- Which forum were you wanting this thread to be in? I'd be happy to move it for you! Thanks so much!

could you send survey out in an email to everybody signed up for emails? and set up a poll for the answers?

Thanks.

thinking this would be a community service for anyone interested in brokering their geometry.

3-DArena posted at 3:29PM Fri, 08 January 2016 - #4247237

DreaminGirl posted at 4:45PM Mon, 04 January 2016 - #4247221

V4 is not the only model out there for Poser.. Ever tried making something for Dawn? The interest for her is growing, actually

No V4 is not the only model for Poser, but the most viable one.

Yes I did create for Dawn, I've actually created for most figures (except Scarlet) in the almost 15 years I've been doing this (including commissions for CP for Miki and Sydney). Not much for Dawn left in my store as they went through clearance. Despite that, I have been keeping an eye on Dawn but have yet to feel that she is the next "go to girl" for Poser. When I don't see much coming out for her offered by her own creators it doesn't garner a lot of faith in the model. When said creators worked with V4 there was a lot more support on their end, be that staff created outfits or commissioned/buyouts. I don't see that support for Dawn and if they don't see a value in that it doesn't encourage vendors either. There are a few things for her I've considered, and I haven't ruled her out yet, but I'm not currently compelled to create products for her as they have not paid off for me in the past (and from what other vendors discuss it didn't pay off for others either). I've considered a few items for her, but have not really been inspired to do so yet.

For example at Hivewire there are 189 clothing items for Dawn in about a year and a half, 42 of those are bundle/stack products which makes them redundant listings. Of those only 6 are Hivewire products. Yes there are those by their exclusive staff/vendors, however if the company itself isn't supporting Dawn beyond 6 products I'm not sure how much interest there is, not enough for Hivewire to create more themselves, or commission or do buyouts. After all these are the same people that made DAZ what it is today. They have the same marketing staff and they know how to be successful. I actually know and like most of their current staff and have worked well with them in the past, I'd love to see them succeed with Dawn, you have no idea how much I wanted to see that.

There are some beautiful dynamic outfits for Dawn that I personally adore but again, it's not Hivewire items, the lack of which is my concern regarding Dawn.

I'd love to respond here to this. The issue is about resources for us. We are a small team. I get the feeling that folks think that HiveWire is larger then we really are. We are 2 business partners, that being Lisa Buckalew and me. We have Paul that produces content and our rigging and packaging up. Alisa is over quality assurance. So we have 3 people producing content, and juggling other business matters such as store and forum and managing artists and the like.

We'd love to be able to commission content for our figures, and to do buyouts, but we don't have the resources to do that. There are other companies that when they have a product planned they can garner a large pool of artists, plus buyout a ton of supporting products to carry that product forward. We can't do that... yet. So, we simply do what we can with the resources we have. We work long days and thru weekends to move our dream forward and to attract the support that we can. And we are attracting support. If others don't create for Dawn or Dusk or Baby Luna or for our horse, then we have to do that, and we're happy to do so, and we do and we will continue to do so.

We produce quality products and continue to add advances and versatility with each HiveWire product. As we balance products and efforts on several base figures, we're also trying to broaden our base with new figures, such as our HiveWire Big Cat that is currently in the works, and our new ponytail hairstyle that will fit all our figures. We're also doing several other animals such as our Asian adult elephant, baby elephant, toon elephant, mule deer family, bighorn sheep, Spanish bull, milk cow and still others. This does not mean we're abandoning Dawn or Dusk. We will continue to develop for them also. Our Dawn SE product was released in August. We don't release a new female character every other month or so like some others might, and are pressured to do so to meet month over month revenue goals. Dawn is a strong base and as people recognize that and apply regular, steady efforts to support her and other figures they will steadily attract support.

Dawn is our baby, we will never abandon her. At the same time we don't see ourselves only producing content for just one figure. If we only crank out stuff for Dawn, then we neglect other figures or find ourselves not pursuing other figures that can and will over the long haul increase the base of HiveWire. So we strive for balance. Last week we released a head morphs product for Baby Luna and just today followed that up with an Expressions and Visemes product for her.

We are fortunate at HiveWire to have other very strong artists creating content for our figures. Laurie Prindle/CWRW is currently working on maps for the mule deer, our stylist Unicorn named Whisper and is committed to create the maps for our Big Cat/Leopard/Panther. She has very recently submitted a character for Dusk named Rodrigo which is gorgeous. That should be in our store next week. Our western tack for our horse is going to beta on Monday, and work on rigging our Shetland Pony breed will begin on Monday. Ken Gilliland is of course producing his birds and other products that take flight. He has 2 new moth sets out very recently, and they're beautifully done. Lully continues to create dynamic clothes for Dawn and we are eternally grateful for her doing so. Virtual World is about to submit another beautiful character for Dawn. Three other artists have characters in progress for Dusk and you can see those on our forums.

Trust me when I say that we're marching forward. Our store is strong, our new forums are up as of this week and they're rich with features. Products are advancing, and the Hive is alive and moving forward, maybe not at the expected pace or focus that others wish for, but you can expect to see a steady stream of quality coming from the Hive in the year 2016 and beyond.

I'm truly confused, honestly.

Now, I use the Hivewire figures along with others not DAZ. But the HW family is my typical GoTo figure. And, I'm lost why anyone thinks that Hivewire has to be the one producing the content.

Frankly, I have purchased my fair share at HW. But, I have lovely products for the HW family purchased at other stores, too. Quality is quality, no matter the store logo.

Maybe I just don't get it, but where did this logic that HW has to be all/do all before anyone else jumps on board come from? That's just dumb, if you ask me. I want variety. I want multiple artist input. I don't WANT everything done by one person/store/vendor.

The bottom line is simple. Vendors who box themselves into DAZ only figures (including V4) are limiting their customer base. Don't come crying when your customers go elsewhere. You've made yourself clear that you don't want our business, so we found others who do. That's how the free market works.

CrystalGames posted at 7:53AM Sun, 10 January 2016 - #4248106

I'm truly confused, honestly.

Now, I use the Hivewire figures along with others not DAZ. But the HW family is my typical GoTo figure. And, I'm lost why anyone thinks that Hivewire has to be the one producing the content.

Frankly, I have purchased my fair share at HW. But, I have lovely products for the HW family purchased at other stores, too. Quality is quality, no matter the store logo.

Maybe I just don't get it, but where did this logic that HW has to be all/do all before anyone else jumps on board come from? That's just dumb, if you ask me. I want variety. I want multiple artist input. I don't WANT everything done by one person/store/vendor.

The bottom line is simple. Vendors who box themselves into DAZ only figures (including V4) are limiting their customer base. Don't come crying when your customers go elsewhere. You've made yourself clear that you don't want our business, so we found others who do. That's how the free market works.

It's interesting how when it comes to 3D content, everyone simply forgets about economics and supply and demand. If the market shifted to favor another product, what pull does the now smaller group have to vendors that have to get their bills paid? Vendors aren't limiting themselves, they're following the market.. and some have held out longer than others, because that's how the free market works.

To put it another way, it's like motorola flip phone users saying that iphone developers are limiting their customer developer base by not making applications for their flip phones. If the market shifted and you're still holding on to the notion that motorola flip phones are a viable development platform simply because you hate Apple for no other reason but to hate Apple, then it wouldn't make sense why there there's a downturn in V4 products, Hivewire is making most of their own stuff, and all this genesis items are popping up in the store. Brand loyalty doesn't mean much when those users aren't buying or the products offered are nowhere near as good as what the market is shifting too. People beyond the forums are looking for their money's worth, because simply, it's their money they're putting down for product.

And as 3D-Arena pointed out, there's already been a survey that was sent out last year... and I believe it pretty must spelled out to the vendors that the shift was heading towards more DS material and Genesis content. If they put another survey, I think the OP may not be happy with the results because the market shifted even more that direction since Genesis 3/V7/Iray came out and more users tossed Poser for it. Only way to turn around that momentum is by having figures for Poser that are comparable in features and looks and software that has the same features and ease of use as what vendors are using to make the products people in this thread are complaining about. And the customers that are buying this new content are in control of that... not vendors (who supply what is being demanded by the majority of paying customers) or forum users wanting vendors to actually lose money by supporting figures that have failed in the market or simply aren't very good. And the last point is really what these thread users want vendors to do and really, that's not going to happen.

Male_M3dia posted at 9:34AM Sun, 10 January 2016 - #4248260

CrystalGames posted at 7:53AM Sun, 10 January 2016 - #4248106

I'm truly confused, honestly.

Now, I use the Hivewire figures along with others not DAZ. But the HW family is my typical GoTo figure. And, I'm lost why anyone thinks that Hivewire has to be the one producing the content.

Frankly, I have purchased my fair share at HW. But, I have lovely products for the HW family purchased at other stores, too. Quality is quality, no matter the store logo.

Maybe I just don't get it, but where did this logic that HW has to be all/do all before anyone else jumps on board come from? That's just dumb, if you ask me. I want variety. I want multiple artist input. I don't WANT everything done by one person/store/vendor.

The bottom line is simple. Vendors who box themselves into DAZ only figures (including V4) are limiting their customer base. Don't come crying when your customers go elsewhere. You've made yourself clear that you don't want our business, so we found others who do. That's how the free market works.

It's interesting how when it comes to 3D content, everyone simply forgets about economics and supply and demand. If the market shifted to favor another product, what pull does the now smaller group have to vendors that have to get their bills paid? Vendors aren't limiting themselves, they're following the market.. and some have held out longer than others, because that's how the free market works.

To put it another way, it's like motorola flip phone users saying that iphone developers are limiting their customer developer base by not making applications for their flip phones. If the market shifted and you're still holding on to the notion that motorola flip phones are a viable development platform simply because you hate Apple for no other reason but to hate Apple, then it wouldn't make sense why there there's a downturn in V4 products, Hivewire is making most of their own stuff, and all this genesis items are popping up in the store. Brand loyalty doesn't mean much when those users aren't buying or the products offered are nowhere near as good as what the market is shifting too. People beyond the forums are looking for their money's worth, because simply, it's their money they're putting down for product.

And as 3D-Arena pointed out, there's already been a survey that was sent out last year... and I believe it pretty must spelled out to the vendors that the shift was heading towards more DS material and Genesis content. If they put another survey, I think the OP may not be happy with the results because the market shifted even more that direction since Genesis 3/V7/Iray came out and more users tossed Poser for it. Only way to turn around that momentum is by having figures for Poser that are comparable in features and looks and software that has the same features and ease of use as what vendors are using to make the products people in this thread are complaining about. And the customers that are buying this new content are in control of that... not vendors (who supply what is being demanded by the majority of paying customers) or forum users wanting vendors to actually lose money by supporting figures that have failed in the market or simply aren't very good. And the last point is really what these thread users want vendors to do and really, that's not going to happen.

Just a lot of words - none of which addressed my post.

Moving on.

CrystalGames posted at 9:52AM Sun, 10 January 2016 - #4248265

Male_M3dia posted at 9:34AM Sun, 10 January 2016 - #4248260

CrystalGames posted at 7:53AM Sun, 10 January 2016 - #4248106

I'm truly confused, honestly.

Now, I use the Hivewire figures along with others not DAZ. But the HW family is my typical GoTo figure. And, I'm lost why anyone thinks that Hivewire has to be the one producing the content.

Frankly, I have purchased my fair share at HW. But, I have lovely products for the HW family purchased at other stores, too. Quality is quality, no matter the store logo.

Maybe I just don't get it, but where did this logic that HW has to be all/do all before anyone else jumps on board come from? That's just dumb, if you ask me. I want variety. I want multiple artist input. I don't WANT everything done by one person/store/vendor.

The bottom line is simple. Vendors who box themselves into DAZ only figures (including V4) are limiting their customer base. Don't come crying when your customers go elsewhere. You've made yourself clear that you don't want our business, so we found others who do. That's how the free market works.

It's interesting how when it comes to 3D content, everyone simply forgets about economics and supply and demand. If the market shifted to favor another product, what pull does the now smaller group have to vendors that have to get their bills paid? Vendors aren't limiting themselves, they're following the market.. and some have held out longer than others, because that's how the free market works.

To put it another way, it's like motorola flip phone users saying that iphone developers are limiting their customer developer base by not making applications for their flip phones. If the market shifted and you're still holding on to the notion that motorola flip phones are a viable development platform simply because you hate Apple for no other reason but to hate Apple, then it wouldn't make sense why there there's a downturn in V4 products, Hivewire is making most of their own stuff, and all this genesis items are popping up in the store. Brand loyalty doesn't mean much when those users aren't buying or the products offered are nowhere near as good as what the market is shifting too. People beyond the forums are looking for their money's worth, because simply, it's their money they're putting down for product.

And as 3D-Arena pointed out, there's already been a survey that was sent out last year... and I believe it pretty must spelled out to the vendors that the shift was heading towards more DS material and Genesis content. If they put another survey, I think the OP may not be happy with the results because the market shifted even more that direction since Genesis 3/V7/Iray came out and more users tossed Poser for it. Only way to turn around that momentum is by having figures for Poser that are comparable in features and looks and software that has the same features and ease of use as what vendors are using to make the products people in this thread are complaining about. And the customers that are buying this new content are in control of that... not vendors (who supply what is being demanded by the majority of paying customers) or forum users wanting vendors to actually lose money by supporting figures that have failed in the market or simply aren't very good. And the last point is really what these thread users want vendors to do and really, that's not going to happen.

Just a lot of words - none of which addressed my post.

Moving on.

Actually it did, but like the situation in the store, people tend to ignore the actual situation but still complain why certain things are the way they are. You think other figures are viable alternatives when vendors know they aren't. So those other things are made less or not at all.

Male_M3dia posted at 2:46PM Sun, 10 January 2016 - #4248267

Actually it did, but like the situation in the store, people tend to ignore the actual situation but still complain why certain things are the way they are. You think other figures are viable alternatives when vendors know they aren't. So those other things are made less or not at all.

Ahhh, the Renderosity Market Oracle has spoken. All hail the Renderosity Market Oracle!

The only problem is the buyers aren't showing up, so there appears to be a fallacy with your crystal ball.

CrystalGames posted at 3:00PM Sun, 10 January 2016 - #4248303

Male_M3dia posted at 2:46PM Sun, 10 January 2016 - #4248267

Actually it did, but like the situation in the store, people tend to ignore the actual situation but still complain why certain things are the way they are. You think other figures are viable alternatives when vendors know they aren't. So those other things are made less or not at all.

Ahhh, the Renderosity Market Oracle has spoken. All hail the Renderosity Market Oracle!

The only problem is the buyers aren't showing up, so there appears to be a fallacy with your crystal ball.

Not with mine, because I'm actually looking at the store and seeing what the vendors have actually said, which some people keep trying to ignore. But you can argue against that, but it really is what it is. Decline in V4, increase in Genesis/DS items, very low Dawn items, which is why these types are thread are popping up or do you have a different view on why people are starting these threads like something totally different is afoot?

I would not be at all surprised if there is a downturn in the number of products being purchased here for Dawn, and thus an apparent lack of incentive for vendors to produce such and so the spiral down continues. I doubt however this has much to do with Dawn and a lot more to do with Rendo.

Since September of last year I have purchased a number of products for Dawn but none of them from here, I purchased them from Hivewire3D in the most part. There are a numbers of reasons for this. Firstly their voucher system is fair and easy, the more you buy the more you save but everyone that buys earns vouchers. Much fairer than the coupon system here that has limited use as they cannot be used on many products. Secondly they know how to run a forum and despite the recent hack they had they have come back with a better forum than before, it also works and was clearly tested well before going live. Amazing then that bigger sites and bigger teams can't seem to get a forum running or moderate anywhere near as well. Even more amazing is you can read forum after forum and thread after thread with Poser and Daz users not only being civil to each other but actually helping each other. Of course the fact the Dawn can used in both Poser and DS means we have a common bond and an interest in what others are doing irrespective of the software used. Put another way, it is a group of people more interested in the art than the software used.

I am firmly behind Dawn since the SE version and all the stuff I purchased for the original Dawn still works with Dawn 2 and Dawn SE. So rather than having to repurchase all the the Dawn stuff I have been able to invest in Dusk and the Hivewire horse instead. I am also confident that Dawn will be around for a while and will stay compatible rather than the, "we have just released version 8 so you had better start buying all your stuff again but make it quick because we are already working on version 9 and 10 which will, of course, be totally incompatible with all earlier versions.

For me, Dawn has become not just another figure but a way of life, at least as far as my art in concerned.

hornet3d posted at 4:27PM Sun, 10 January 2016 - #4248331

I would not be at all surprised if there is a downturn in the number of products being purchased here for Dawn, and thus an apparent lack of incentive for vendors to produce such and so the spiral down continues. I doubt however this has much to do with Dawn and a lot more to do with Rendo.

Actually rendo threw their full weight behind Dawn as well as many vendors, so your statement isn't accurate. Dawn had 3 sites' support, only thing it didn't have was the customer support which is why vendor support now is what it is. I'm not sure why people would blame rendo for customers not buying full stores full of Dawn content, the simple fact is she didn't sell and vendors lost money.

And really forums aren't money makers, the store is. Rendo could take their forums down, and it would have no effect on what's being sold. But if you take the stores down, the forum wouldn't last that long before someone starts asking for donations.

Male_M3dia posted at 9:47PM Sun, 10 January 2016 - #4248332

hornet3d posted at 4:27PM Sun, 10 January 2016 - #4248331

I would not be at all surprised if there is a downturn in the number of products being purchased here for Dawn, and thus an apparent lack of incentive for vendors to produce such and so the spiral down continues. I doubt however this has much to do with Dawn and a lot more to do with Rendo.

Actually rendo threw their full weight behind Dawn as well as many vendors, so your statement isn't accurate. Dawn had 3 sites' support, only thing it didn't have was the customer support which is why vendor support now is what it is. I'm not sure why people would blame rendo for customers not buying full stores full of Dawn content, the simple fact is she didn't sell and vendors lost money.

And really forums aren't money makers, the store is. Rendo could take their forums down, and it would have no effect on what's being sold. But if you take the stores down, the forum wouldn't last that long before someone starts asking for donations.

You could be right but it might depend on the time frame. I did not support Dawn very much when the figure was first released but I have seen supporting Dawn SE since launch as that is a very different prospect to the original Dawn.

I also stated a time frame, for me at least it was last September when I finally gave up on the market place here. It is clear from the Prime forum that the changes to Prime were not well liked and many either stopped or reduced their spending. They also played with the galleries here and some people have deleted their entire galleries, me included. If I was spending here I would be buying whatever dawn products were available so they are Dawn sales lost.

I am not saying for a minute that Dawn sales would match Genesis 1,2 and 3 sales, just that I do not feel that the figure is the lost cause that many make out. I also feel that Dawn is here for the long run which is not true of all figures. Not having a lot of products does have one benefit and that is the products are not scrapped if they do not sell in three months, allowing people to save up. OK the vendor might take longer to make money but the possibility is there.

It is not just a Dawn thing though, I don't use it but I have nothing against Genesis 3, only if I was spending money on that figure I would be spending my money over at Daz. I haven't purchased any but the products there are clearly either better presented or of much higher quality.

Even though I don't buy Genesis stuff I have now started buying at Daz again after a long break, even today I spent the best part of $100 thanks items being on sale at 70-80%. A much better deal for me than my Prime membership here.

I guess what I am saying is just because dawn products did not sale on day one does not mean they would not today and that Rendo is not a good site to judge market trends, too much else is going on here for it to produce a valid conclusion. I even suspect they are losing a lot of Genesis 3 sales, and that has noting to do with Genesis anymore than it has to do with Dawn.

hornet3d posted at 7:13AM Mon, 11 January 2016 - #4248334

Male_M3dia posted at 9:47PM Sun, 10 January 2016 - #4248332

hornet3d posted at 4:27PM Sun, 10 January 2016 - #4248331

I would not be at all surprised if there is a downturn in the number of products being purchased here for Dawn, and thus an apparent lack of incentive for vendors to produce such and so the spiral down continues. I doubt however this has much to do with Dawn and a lot more to do with Rendo.

Actually rendo threw their full weight behind Dawn as well as many vendors, so your statement isn't accurate. Dawn had 3 sites' support, only thing it didn't have was the customer support which is why vendor support now is what it is. I'm not sure why people would blame rendo for customers not buying full stores full of Dawn content, the simple fact is she didn't sell and vendors lost money.

And really forums aren't money makers, the store is. Rendo could take their forums down, and it would have no effect on what's being sold. But if you take the stores down, the forum wouldn't last that long before someone starts asking for donations.

You could be right but it might depend on the time frame. I did not support Dawn very much when the figure was first released but I have seen supporting Dawn SE since launch as that is a very different prospect to the original Dawn.

It doesn't matter when you started, at release is when all the products were released and bombed, and the vendors either went back to V4 or moved to genesis. A good chunk of those products are either in the clearance bin or gone from the store not to be picked up by vendors. So stepping in after the fact doesn't mean Dawn will be picked up like it was in the beginning. She's done as far as vendors concerned, with the occasional hair fit or outfit by a new vendor. You're being optimistic if you think Dawn will be more than she is now.

I also stated a time frame, for me at least it was last September when I finally gave up on the market place here. It is clear from the Prime forum that the changes to Prime were not well liked and many either stopped or reduced their spending. They also played with the galleries here and some people have deleted their entire galleries, me included. If I was spending here I would be buying whatever dawn products were available so they are Dawn sales lost.

Prime may have some effect on some sales, but galleries or forum issues doesn't make a bit of difference. As I said, those make no money and most people that deleted galleries seem to not make many purchases but spent time using forum bandwidth, so that's not going to affect their bottom line at all. I let my Prime expire, but not over pricing changes, I just never found many products to buy worth the yearly expense. Doesn't mean I stopped shopping though.

I am not saying for a minute that Dawn sales would match Genesis 1,2 and 3 sales, just that I do not feel that the figure is the lost cause that many make out. I also feel that Dawn is here for the long run which is not true of all figures. Not having a lot of products does have one benefit and that is the products are not scrapped if they do not sell in three months, allowing people to save up. OK the vendor might take longer to make money but the possibility is there.

And that goes to what was said earlier about Hivewire making most of their own products. Yes the owners are in it for the long run, because they have the resources to burn; however vendors don't, so that's why the major vendors that were there in the beginning have moved on because they weren't getting the return on investment. Simple supply and demand again.

It is not just a Dawn thing though, I don't use it but I have nothing against Genesis 3, only if I was spending money on that figure I would be spending my money over at Daz. I haven't purchased any but the products there are clearly either better presented or of much higher quality.

Even though I don't buy Genesis stuff I have now started buying at Daz again after a long break, even today I spent the best part of $100 thanks items being on sale at 70-80%. A much better deal for me than my Prime membership here.

I guess what I am saying is just because dawn products did not sale on day one does not mean they would not today and that Rendo is not a good site to judge market trends, too much else is going on here for it to produce a valid conclusion. I even suspect they are losing a lot of Genesis 3 sales, and that has noting to do with Genesis anymore than it has to do with Dawn.

And you would be incorrect on that statement. When multiple vendors tell you what is selling or not, which many have done over the last few months (here and other sites as well), you listen because they have the sales and trends to back their statements. Non-sellers simply don't and shouldn't really try to contradict that with non-backed speculation. A lot of the things that are happening today are the direct result of software companies not listening to the needs of vendors and relying on customer speculation for their info... then customers wonder why the market is the way it is. It shouldn't be a surprise.

I don't think it is wild speculation to say that when traffic goes down, as it has here, that the chances are the spending drops as well. As less and less users visit a site to look at galleries or follow forums there is less traffic. I also don't believe that sites would provide galleries and forums just because they love the community, they do it to attract people, sure it may not directly make money but in business you need to look at the wider picture.

True the buying customers have no figures but the vendors never share their figures so they are really on a par we just have to trust they are telling us the truth and not working to some hidden agenda.

Despite what you say, the Dawn figure available today is very different to the original Dawn, if vendors are really saying I tried something a few years ago and it did not work and that is an end to it, that is their choice, but it does not sound good business to me.

Quote from a Renderosity Mod in another thread

"Without the galleries and forums, Renderosity wouldn't be able to sell product because a simple storefront for products such as ours just doesn't work. Not with our history foundation as a forum based site."

hornet3d posted at 8:44AM Mon, 11 January 2016 - #4248410

I don't think it is wild speculation to say that when traffic goes down, as it has here, that the chances are the spending drops as well. As less and less users visit a site to look at galleries or follow forums there is less traffic. I also don't believe that sites would provide galleries and forums just because they love the community, they do it to attract people, sure it may not directly make money but in business you need to look at the wider picture.

True the buying customers have no figures but the vendors never share their figures so they are really on a par we just have to trust they are telling us the truth and not working to some hidden agenda.

Despite what you say, the Dawn figure available today is very different to the original Dawn, if vendors are really saying I tried something a few years ago and it did not work and that is an end to it, that is their choice, but it does not sound good business to me.

As I said before, the survey was sent out to customers and they stated DS/Genesis products, not dawn. Customers mapped the current trend and the vendors follow that trend. That's good business; what you're suggesting is not. And site traffic may be down and not affect the spending going on, such as less use of the forum, yet increase in sales in the stores. Forum pages use more bandwidth than a store page.

ROFL, everybody get your hip waders on! The sh*t is gettin' deep in here!

CrystalGames posted at 10:41AM Mon, 11 January 2016 - #4248478

ROFL, everybody get your hip waders on! The sh*t is gettin' deep in here!

So personal attacks are your contribution to the convo instead of positive contributions? This isn't 3rd grade.

And really it's these type of comments and attitude leads to the situation today. Rather than come up constructive ways to look at an issue, you have people attempting to drown out the convo with name calling, personal attacks and derogatory statements, which solve nothing. Sure won't get vendors on board if they see people acting like this.

And this is why you see people running to other forums as well. Some people simply can't control their emotions and people get tired of seeing this type of destructive behavior.

Well, the vendors can be happy then. They all flock where the market is. Hopefully the cake is large enough for everyone.

Hi @everyone-- I'm moving this over to the Poser forum.

Why is this drivel in the Poser forum???? ?

OMG -- this site -- the admins -- OMG

Who would like to know how to configure a shader so it works in SuperFly and FireFly?

Oh - silly me - I should have posted that in the Community Forum.

Let's stick to constructive comments guys.

Well this is constructive criticism, which I think is invited. This thread belongs in the community forum, not the Poser forum.

I don't disagree but maybe admins want a larger audience or the perspective the Poser forum can bring.

Constructive comment. This isn't a Poser topic, and a half hearted query by OP in the first place. I've seen seemingly innocent little threads like this posted by OP over the years. They always burst into flames. She knows very well what software is selling the most content, DS and Poser. And not the sundry other software she listed (Carrara and Blender? Lol). Can you say nonsensical smokescreen? Seriously? Did I mention the bottom line? Poser and DS, who would expect heated exchanges in a thread with such an obvious subtext? Get real. I agree with BB 100% on this one... this does not belong in the POSER forum.

I agree with Ted.

Look at Lara's question; why not put it the Blender, Carrara or Studio Forums, which she also mentions? She's asking about content, not a particular app.

This thread is really in the correct forum now. The OP and other posters in this thread is really looking for Poser alternatives because she believed if another survey was sent it would have suggestions for broader poser support from vendors; so being put here everyone can constructively have a discussion on how to get more Poser content available. The community forum belongs to the whole rendo community: Poser, DS, Carrara, blender, modo, etc. Putting a thread like this in the community forum is not respectful of people that use other software and makes them (especially when they are customers as well) not feel welcome and part of the rendo community at large.

This isn't a Poser topic, IMHO. Please move it back.

Or just lock it before it goes down in flames. This should not be in the Poser forum. The OP asked about the Market Place. Last I checked, Rendo's Market Place wasn't just a Poser market place. Why no put this in the DS or Blender forum? They were mentioned.

icprncss2 posted at 10:47AM Tue, 12 January 2016 - #4248666

Or just lock it before it goes down in flames. This should not be in the Poser forum. The OP asked about the Market Place. Last I checked, Rendo's Market Place wasn't just a Poser market place. Why no put this in the DS or Blender forum? They were mentioned.

Quite the opposite, the Market Place is much less of a Poser Market Place than it used to be, but I agree it should not be here and probably should be locked rather than moved back.

Whatever happens I will not post again in this particular thread because it clearly should not be here.

Kendra posted at 7:32AM Tue, 12 January 2016 - #4248606

I don't disagree but maybe admins want a larger audience or the perspective the Poser forum can bring.

"A larger audience" Yep that's it. Controversy and back biting. that's what Rendo wants. Good for site traffic. The OP was not asking for Poser only input so why the Poser forum if not this?

As further proof that I am at my wits end with this site, I'm not getting any e-bots from all these replies in this thread.

Fix the site. Stop worrying about Daz vs. Poser - FIX THE DAMN SITE. I left for a while. I'm trying to come back. I'm trying to participate in enlightening Poser conversations.

I want e-bots. I want attachments. And I want stupid flame fests to stay in the Community Forum where it belongs.

Discuss Poser here. Occasional off-topic posts are fine, but to MOVE this thread TO POSER forum was really weird.

the one thread i posted i really wanted under Community, lol.

Was hoping they could set up a poll where it would attract attention from all the rmp shoppers. Already discovered posting in the wishing well doesn't attract much of a response.

It's nice to hear from vendors in the know. But; my thinking is, the perspective is respective to their niche when I'm interested in a broader perspective. I don't see how someone creating for iray and vicki 7 would know what the Dawn market activity is and vice versa.

And, thanks for the post from Hivewire, honest and eloquent, I can see why customers would be loyal.

"It's interesting how when it comes to 3D content, everyone simply forgets about economics and supply and demand."

I strongly Disagree sir... Most Non wealthy people make cold, objective, number crunched, consumer decisions about purchases of essential life items like food shelter& clothing, only slighly informed by brand loyalty when budgets permits.

But since no one will likely Die, freeze or starve as a result of choosing the the wrong "3D model" This allows for the luxury of what we call in Arabic "Hizbiya":

(A deep,visceral unshakeble, emotional tribal loyalty completely undisturbed by any face slapping reality no matter how much logic or reason is presented to the contrary).

Surely Terrence, it has not escaped you that your presence in any thread here in soon followed by stern warning by a moderator to "keep things civil" etc

Because You and your ilk are the great Spoilers of myopic denial, who come with your forked tongued call to Heresy and Faithlessness.

wolf359 posted at 11:46AM Tue, 12 January 2016 - #4248730

"It's interesting how when it comes to 3D content, everyone simply forgets about economics and supply and demand."

I strongly Disagree sir... Most Non wealthy people make cold, objective, number crunched, consumer decisions about purchases of essential life items like food shelter& clothing, only slighly informed by brand loyalty when budgets permits.

But since no one will likely Die, freeze or starve as a result of choosing the the wrong "3D model" This allows for the luxury of what we call in Arabic "Hizbiya":

(A deep,visceral unshakeble, emotional tribal loyalty completely undisturbed by any face slapping reality no matter how much logic or reason is presented to the contrary).

Surely Terrence, it has not escaped you that your presence in any thread here in soon followed by stern warning by a moderator to "keep things civil" etc

Because You and your ilk are the great Spoilers of myopic denial, who come with your forked tongued call to Heresy and Faithlessness.

(reads last paragraph several times, belly laughs) Wolf, you're sounding like you're strumming a lute, painting an image of me on a ledge high over the poser ilk, carrying the sword of my cruel mistresses, logic and reason to slay and scalp the faithless! LOL it's way too much this morning, stay on subject ;)

bagginsbill posted at 6:23PM Tue, 12 January 2016 - #4248721

And I want stupid flame fests to stay in the Community Forum where it belongs.

Discuss Poser here. Occasional off-topic posts are fine, but to MOVE this thread TO POSER forum was really weird.

Maybe this thread is here because Poser forum is the last forum on Renderosity that it is not (yet) a complete Wild West ghost town, rolling bushes included.

@bantha: I do not think that this market is large enough for everybody, I think that it is (or was?) just big enough for a single line of products. Extinction of the whole business is not outside the realm of possibilities, especially if no external (non SM, non DAZ) player comes into play.

According to the respective websites, as I write this, Renderosity reports 2786 members online, RuntimeDNA reports 176 members online.

For every RDNA member online that site at this moment, there are almost 16 member online here. That's a huge disparity. Therefore, performing a survey HERE instead of THERE is much more interesting, at least to me as a vendor.

So, as a vendor, I might actually find it helpful to know what the larger Rendo membership generally is interested in buying. I am always weighing the value proposition of doing more products vs. the painfully small income this generates. In fact, I would find it very useful info if the membership here were to be asked the question that the OP desires.

If, for example, only 50 of those 2786 members are interested in SuperFly shaders or lights or whatever I might come up with, I may decide I'm just wasting my time and skip it.

On the other hand, if 2000 of 2786 members are interested in SuperFly shaders or lights or whatever, I am far more inclined to actually finish and publish numerous things i have that you (collectively) do not have.

If I were to ask this question ONLY of the Poser users (an undefined subset of those 2786 members currently online), I'd be unable to determine what the heck I should be offering for sale. In any case, this thread isn't asking the question.

It's asking if Renderosity can/might/will ask the question.

In which case, since the question is with regard to the willingness or ability of THIS WEB SITE and ITS OWNERS to perform a poll to answer the marketing research question "What app are you looking to buy for?", I completely fail to see why you would move this to the Poser forum.

Admins - are you paying ANY attention? At all?

Or maybe, God forbid, I switch to Daz Studio and start building stuff for that app because that's what everybody wants.

Let me be clear that I said "God forbid" not because I hate DS (I don't at all). I said it because I'd have to study SOO HARD to become useful to others in that application. I just haven't looked at it.

Ted, I'm on the page with everything you are saying.

I, for instance, have pretty much zero interest in Superfly. I think it would be an interesting experiment, (were you so inclined) for you to post some minor project you have undertaken for Superfly to the free area and see what the interest there was. It would certainly give everyone working in the area a heads up. You, after all, are probably the best known Poser guru. If something you offer for Superfly makes waves, then we know there is inrterest there. If it get's 17 downloads, well... that tells a tale as well. The nice thing about doing the experiment as a free item is, everyone can see how much attention it attracts. The "sales" information is public, and ALL vendors could profit from it.

Of course, this pre-supposes that you've got such a project that you're willing to use as a guenea pig. :)

imagines the koi man shadering in an alternative app, like carrara ... swoonthud*

basicwiz posted at 2:35PM Tue, 12 January 2016 - #4248748

Ted, I'm on the page with everything you are saying.

I, for instance, have pretty much zero interest in Superfly. I think it would be an interesting experiment, (were you so inclined) for you to post some minor project you have undertaken for Superfly to the free area and see what the interest there was. It would certainly give everyone working in the area a heads up. You, after all, are probably the best known Poser guru. If something you offer for Superfly makes waves, then we know there is inrterest there. If it get's 17 downloads, well... that tells a tale as well. The nice thing about doing the experiment as a free item is, everyone can see how much attention it attracts. The "sales" information is public, and ALL vendors could profit from it.

Of course, this pre-supposes that you've got such a project that you're willing to use as a guenea pig. :)

The problem with freebies is that the number of downloads mean nothing in terms of market research.

Sure, lots of people download it - for some day. We have lots of hoarders.

Additionally, what people say they will buy on the forum has no relationship to what they actually pull the credit card out for. Yeah, they love you when you're handing out free stuff, but it's an entirely different conversation when it comes time to pay up.

Market "research" based on freebies isn't research at all.

I'm a bit disappointed in Superfly. Ok, maybe it's my own fault. I thought the whole point of Superfly was that you could take your Poser/Firefly node set ups and render them in Superfly. No messing around, no having to spend a load of money on shaders and lights and whatever else. So, I've take both extremely simple scenes with extermely simple node set ups into both render engines as well and highly complex scenes with miles of shaders wired together. The simple scenes don't look any different. SF or FF, they look the same. Maybe reflections look a little better in SF but that's about it. The complex scenes render as expected in FF but if I try rendering them in SF, Poser crashes to the desktop.

I've also read in various threads that SuperFly is really not Cycles. If it isn't Cycles, where does it differ from Cycles? If you use a Cycles material set up in SF, will it render the same?

Should we be using different material set ups for SF than we use in FF?