@Smaker; "After a few month and some tries and errors, I have now a list of workflows to cover most of the cases I have today. "

OK, hand them over; me want.................... ;) AND more seriously, I have to agree with you regarding what you just said to Marbles; it is frustrating and, at times, downright depressing. But I think Marbles is doing the right thing; leave it for now and come back to it in a few months. That's what I did and now there's more information around than there was before - in a few months there will be even more. In a year, with more refinement, bug fixes, etc - it will only get better and Gerald seems like a very determined guy; I really don't think he'll chuck it in (like so many content providers do........). One thing that has stuck in my mind, Marbles - you mentioned that you had 4 threads ("My Multithread reads 4 by default") - I have 16; could this be an issue (anyone who knows something about hyperthreading CPU's)? What do other people have? Sorry, I'm just thinking out loud and thought I'd ask because even my "really old general-purpose" PC runs 8.............. Last thing, for Marbles; as you know, VWD came out for Poser first and there is a 26 page post in the Poser forum discussing the plugin/program. You may find it interesting to see the struggling that some of the "now-experts" had when they first started (you can even read all about my lack of Poser skills...lol that starts on page 10). Link - https://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/?thread_id=2891120 Cheers [I've spent too much time reading the forums and now it's time for bed - guess I'll sim the skirt tomorrow.....]

@marble : I will send a new version at Renderosity with the documentation written by WimVDB. If you want, I can send you this version. Many bugs has been corrected and you certainly will prefer this one. If you want to receive it, send me an email where I can send it to you.

I've sent you a message on sitemail.

Thank you again.

@Gerald, does that mean the documentation written by WimVDB and the latest version of VWD is ready for us all or is "a new version" not the one you want to release to everyone (ie. an "interim" version, if you will)? I'm sure everyone is keen for new documentation and a VWD update. I just thought I'd ask what others also, may be thinking/wondering. I'm not trying to "incite a riot" or anything (lol), just askin'............ Just for the record; I appreciate all that you do and am content to wait until you are happy with what is to be released to "the general public".

OK, looks like I'm double posting again; but it's to ask a different, simulation related, question. I have attached an image to show my problem; despite nailing certain parts of the Daemon skirt to G3F (collision), I'm finding some of the nailed parts still moving and distorting in the process. I am thinking it's due to the fact that nailed parts very close to G3F are nailed nice and solidly, but other parts (that I don't want to move at all) that are slightly further away from G3F are still being slightly effected by the simulation. The attached screencap shows 2 renders; one which shows the entire skirt in its post-simulation stage; the other where I deleted all the geometry of the skirt, except for the skirt front/back panels and added a new, unsimulated Daemon skirt with only the skirt front/back panels' geometry deleted (so as to bypass the problem but also to show the difference in certain parts that have become distorted, albeit only slightly). So my question is, how can I make sure certain parts a bit further away from the collision object (in this case, G3F) remain unaffected (ie. fully nailed) by the simulation?

Erwin0265 posted at 5:26PM Fri, 17 February 2017 - #4297749

OK, looks like I'm double posting again; but it's to ask a different, simulation related, question. I have attached an image to show my problem; despite nailing certain parts of the Daemon skirt to G3F (collision), I'm finding some of the nailed parts still moving and distorting in the process. I am thinking it's due to the fact that nailed parts very close to G3F are nailed nice and solidly, but other parts (that I don't want to move at all) that are slightly further away from G3F are still being slightly effected by the simulation. The attached screencap shows 2 renders; one which shows the entire skirt in its post-simulation stage; the other where I deleted all the geometry of the skirt, except for the skirt front/back panels and added a new, unsimulated Daemon skirt with only the skirt front/back panels' geometry deleted (so as to bypass the problem but also to show the difference in certain parts that have become distorted, albeit only slightly). So my question is, how can I make sure certain parts a bit further away from the collision object (in this case, G3F) remain unaffected (ie. fully nailed) by the simulation?

Nail to collision doesn't prevent deformations, you must select the vertices and apply rigidity

I've been using rigidify to stiffen the fabric parts in an attempt to give it a leather look. So do I need to nail to collision AND rigidify or only rigidify? I think I need to watch Biscuits' videos again....................

For me: high rigidity to rigidify AND Bail to collision if you want the rigid part to follow the body but....

Are you doing animation or still render ? If it's the last don't make complicate scenario to do all in VWD, you can cheat!

I know I can cheat; hell, I may nor even have much of the skirt showing in my final image (dependent on framing which I sometimes do very late in the process); but I'm back to giving VWD more time for learning whilst I also create what I want to create. To be honest, I'm more interested in what it can do for hair (although I often repaint that in the final anyway............). But it's all with the goal of learning more. Oh, btw, I only do still images - I have zero interest in animation (although I am often amazed at what others can create in animations in all sorts of software - I'm just not interested in doing it myself. That being said, sometimes I know that I will need to do dynamic simulations (not too sure about what situation does/doesn't demand a dynamic sim, however). I even sometimes use the Poser cloth room to pose the wing membranes of any of Swidhelm's dragon models (his are THE best - absolutely craps on DAZ Dragon 3; and probably 4, 5 & 6) - doing cloth sims for the wing membranes gives really great results.... Anyway, I'm rambling again (don't I always). Whilst I'm posting, I have a 2-part question. Currently, I'm doing a hair sim and there is more than one collision object. I know I can add more to the list by selecting and hitting the collision button twice (same as for the character); but if you do that, you always get the popup where you have to verify the collision object anyway - so what's the point of selecting more than one collision object when you end up being able to select only one collision object later on in the simulation setup? The second part of the question:- the character has a quiver parented to her upper chest (it's located on her back) but it doesn't even show up in the Host List. Is there anything you can do in this situation (other than set up the pose so you can't see the quiver/hair intersections in the final render)?

My point was : VWD is for dynamic simulations of "soft parts". Personnally, I often manage hard parts without VWD but that's my personnal way! For your scene, that what I would do

I can have a look at the quiver as I have the clothe but later this WE

Don't understand the collision topic, are you talking about "nail to collision" where it asks for the collision object?

Yeah, it would be cool if you could have a look at the quiver but the quiver isn't part of the 'cloth'. The skirt I'm using is from the Daemon outfit, but the top is from the Evil Shadow outfit and the quiver is from the "Elven Weapon Bundle" by Polish. I tend to dress my characters in bits and pieces from numerous clothes packages as it makes it feel at least a bit more my creation; I also then re-texture everything to match............ The collision I was referring to is when you first set up your simulation; Click on "Host List" and select Genesis # Female (in my case) and click on the collision button twice; then, if that's the only collision object, you would go on to select your cloth or hair (depending on the sim); but if there are more collision objects (like a top and quiver when simulating hair), you need to select them also, one-by-one and click twice on the collision button - only then can you go on to select your hair object (in my case) and click on the hair button once or twice (dependent on whether you changed any of the parameters). As you go through this process, you will get a popup asking you to Validate your collision object (so you only get to choose one object). My question is, what's the point of selecting more than one collision object when you're going to have to choose only one later on in the sim set up? I hope that makes more sense. If not, watch Biscuits' video, "Static Hair Simulation VWD Cloth & Hair" (the second video - not the one showing a workaround for another issue); at approx 1:25, she mentions adding the dress as a second collision object and at approx. 6:25, the "Validate" button pops up..............

Marble:

I hope the new version will help you along with your issues. You guys need to get out of your head about the whole "I have 100 Gigs of RAM" thing (exaggeration). VWD is only a 32 bit software, and is not even LAA (Large Address Aware), nor can it be rectified as such with LAA software (as Hexagon could to reduce crashing). So, you are not even using above 2 Gigs ever... end of story. If we could LAA VWD we could use up to 4 Gigs of RAM max.

The CPU (multi-threading) is the workhorse of VWD, and why some have it better than others in regard to running VWD. On my laptop, I only have a single core, so I max out at CPU multi-threads at 2. On my Windows 7 PC, I have four cores, so I max out at 8. Some people (such as Gerald) have 16 physical cores, and have use of 32 threads. This is where the power for VWD comes in, and the more physical cores you have, the better off you will be.

This might soon be a moot point though, as Gerald is working on a GPU version, so only time will tell. Maybe, I will finally be able to use all those Cuda cores I purchased my nVidia card for, but who knows?

Regardless, it is an awesome piece of coded software, and I hope you don't give up on it.

OK you are talking about hair simu for the hair: you must choose the "main" collision object to attach hair (usually the character) and then you have to select vertices of the scalp of this character to attach the hair (with templates: V4,....). For a standing character and short hair you usually don't need other collision objects But you may need to add other collision objects (sets, clothes,...). For example, in my last render in the "share your VWD render": the hair is attached to the "main object": G3F but I also defined branches and ground as collision objects. Hope I'm clear

@DaremoK3 "VWD is only a 32 bit software, and is not even LAA (Large Address Aware), nor can it be rectified as such with LAA software (as Hexagon could to reduce crashing). So, you are not even using above 2 Gigs ever... end of story. If we could LAA VWD we could use up to 4 Gigs of RAM max." Well, that explains why I couldn't get the LAA to work for VWD. It's funny though, that, being only 32-bit, when I run a sim, my RAM usage jumps up to 7 or 8 gig (but the CPU is doing the main job running around 70 - 75%; multithreading its li'l heart out....). @Smaker1, I understand what you are saying, but when there are multiple collision objects and you validate your character object as "THE" collision object; does VWD still keep the other collision objects "in mind"? I noticed that when you added multiple collision objects and you validated your character object as the main collision object, once in the Scene viewer, the other collision items are visible, so I guess VWD must keep the other collision objects "in mind" (sorry, I can't think of a more appropriate term)............

Erwin0265:

Un-parent the quiver, and you will have access to it for secondary collisions. If un-parenting the quiver puts the quiver in a state of original imported world coordinates, then export the quiver out as OBJ, and import that quiver in for the secondary collision object (while parented, but everything else in scene hidden). Export/Import will solidify the mesh's translations that match your posed figure. A quick way is by use of the Hexagon bridge, and renaming the mesh, so it comes back as a prop, and does not try to append as a morph target. If un-parenting the quiver retains posed transforms, then disregard need for above.

I am like you, and I have no use for animation, but sometimes animated drapes are necessary for end results of a static image. For your loin-cloth above, my work-flow would have been to import the final frame only to VWD, and perform a static drape on the cloth while all hard parts were set as "fixed" vertices (not nailed to collision) not allowing them to move at all. I would turn off all simulation settings, including floor collisions, and use Dynamic Deformation to pull the cloth up in a horizontal plane above the floor plane. Then I would turn the simulation settings back on, including floor collision, and start a static simulation that collides with the floor as well as the collision figure. I would finish with using the DD to push/pull the draping to my liking, and send back to host.

You can see an example of what I mean by this work-flow in this post here:

[Post: @4296101](https://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/?thread_id=2902807&page_number=5#msg4296101)

Addendum to post above (editing failed)...

• EDIT: The second image inside of VWD shows my last frame posed figure/clothes, and my parented bokken prop using technique described above.

Erwin0265 posted at 11:39AM Sat, 18 February 2017 - #4297802

@DaremoK3 "VWD is only a 32 bit software, and is not even LAA (Large Address Aware), nor can it be rectified as such with LAA software (as Hexagon could to reduce crashing). So, you are not even using above 2 Gigs ever... end of story. If we could LAA VWD we could use up to 4 Gigs of RAM max." Well, that explains why I couldn't get the LAA to work for VWD. It's funny though, that, being only 32-bit, when I run a sim, my RAM usage jumps up to 7 or 8 gig (but the CPU is doing the main job running around 70 - 75%; multithreading its li'l heart out....). @Smaker1, I understand what you are saying, but when there are multiple collision objects and you validate your character object as "THE" collision object; does VWD still keep the other collision objects "in mind"? I noticed that when you added multiple collision objects and you validated your character object as the main collision object, once in the Scene viewer, the other collision items are visible, so I guess VWD must keep the other collision objects "in mind" (sorry, I can't think of a more appropriate term)............

Yes: I usually select all my collisions object first. Then the clothe or the hair. For the hair I choose my character and do the usual WF. Of course all collision objects will be "used" during the simulation. Thats why the hair from my last render collides on the ground and branches.

Erwin0265:

Yes, you can set up multiple collision settings. There are two primary settings for VWD; Initial parameter/collision settings set at beggining of VWD usage (can not be amended), and then secondary settings inside of VWD that can be applied on a per collision/cloth_hair usage. That is why VWD is asking you which collision object you would like to attribute whatever settings you just made to. You can repeat the exact same setting process, and then attribute them to the other/another collision object. You just have to work with it one at time.

Arrgghhh.... My brain is starting to hurt. I am starting to think it may be wise to wait until Gerald has released the new user guide............ DaremoK3 - I went to the thread you indicated, but there is so much information on that one page (probably starting on previous pages) that I really can't work out what it is that I am looking for... Also, whilst I am posting again, it has become quite obvious to me that there are quite a few "new" people who are far more knowledgeable than I when it comes to using VWD (them's the breaks when you have a crappy, unhealthy, genetically fudged body and you spend more time in and out of hospital and at home recuperating from this issue and that issue, etc, yada, yada, yada.... did I mention yada?). But to get to the point; knowledgeable people that want to create written tutorials for VWD and don't know how/where to start - I am offering to help you to create a tutorial/s that will be clear and easy to understand. I was a high school teacher for 25 odd years and writing tutorials is second nature for me (I actually write myself tutorials once I have developed a workflow I am happy with; in any given program I use).... I think there are some good video tutorials available but actual written tutorials - I have yet to see one. People all learn in different ways; some by watching/following a video tute, some by following a PDF tutorial, some by trial and error; or even a combination of any of these (and many other ways I have not mentioned)... I personally would love to be able to contribute to this forum and VWD in general. I'll be honest with you, DaremoK3, most of what you wrote in advice to me I have no idea what you mean and I'm sure I'm not alone. Lastly; to all members posting in the VWD forums, I would ask that if there is an issue you ask for, and receive, help with and there end up being quite a few posts back and forth [Like what we read on the second and third page of this thread between Marble and Smaker1], that you please provide feedback to the forum. By this, I mean - there is nothing worse than reading several pages in a thread the ends with the person who had asked for help no longer responding once their problem is solved, OR responding back with something like, "Oh, I think I've just worked it out - thanks." ANYONE reading a thread like that would pull their hair out (that's why I'm bald) as the "lesson" is incomplete. It's like watching a thrilling movie with the last 5 minutes missing at the end. I hope that makes sense. Please feel free to ask if I've waffled on again and said nothing.......... Personally, I copy and pasted the entire tutorial that Smaker1 and Marble wrote on pages 2 & 3. I did a bit of editing and now I have a tutorial teaching me how to sim a dress for a seated character................. In case anyone is wondering why I would offer to help others to write tutorials; what's in it for me? I get to learn from others more knowledgeable at the same time I'm helping them; that's the great thing about teaching - it's often difficult to work out who's the student and who's the teacher.............. OK, waffling done.

wimvdb posted at 12:40PM Sat, 18 February 2017 - #4297421

VWD deletes any previous prop of the same simulation, that is why you have to rename it.

Normally you do not have to do an initial drape unless the cloth itself needs a drape (when the skirt is high up and needs to fall down). In these case you can either increase the frames in the Poser or DS to let it drape (set a key frame at frame 30 or later), or simulate twice.

My initial guess for portion of the cloth floating up is that inertia is ON. Inertia cause the cloth to bounce back. There are several way to prevent that - Turn inertia off, increase ridigity, increase gravity or** increase weight (new updated version)**. But the easiest thing to do is to let the simulation run longer. In case of a dynamic simulation, add a number of settle frames (set keyframe at last frame, then add 10-30 frames where figure does not move)

I'm not seeing that; what version is now the newest? I'm on V1.0.408.2976

Erwin0265 posted at 12:45PM Sat, 18 February 2017 - #4297749

OK, looks like I'm double posting again; but it's to ask a different, simulation related, question. I have attached an image to show my problem; despite nailing certain parts of the Daemon skirt to G3F (collision), I'm finding some of the nailed parts still moving and distorting in the process. I am thinking it's due to the fact that nailed parts very close to G3F are nailed nice and solidly, but other parts (that I don't want to move at all) that are slightly further away from G3F are still being slightly effected by the simulation. The attached screencap shows 2 renders; one which shows the entire skirt in its post-simulation stage; the other where I deleted all the geometry of the skirt, except for the skirt front/back panels and added a new, unsimulated Daemon skirt with only the skirt front/back panels' geometry deleted (so as to bypass the problem but also to show the difference in certain parts that have become distorted, albeit only slightly). So my question is, how can I make sure certain parts a bit further away from the collision object (in this case, G3F) remain unaffected (ie. fully nailed) by the simulation?

If it's a static simulation, don't nail etc (just use Fixed Vertices and Clear Fixed); it's quick and simple to do. If I think i might want to fix and clear a few times I save the verts to memory.

Thanks, Writers Block, but I'm going to wait (somewhat patiently) for the new user guide to come out and slowly work through it and then (hopefully) I'll know how to do the things some of you far more knowledgeable guys are suggesting. If you want to write a tutorial about what you are suggesting, I am happy to give you a hand to set it out and make it clear so anyone can follow it (and I'll learn new tricks also) - as I mentioned in my last post. Even with a newly re-written user guide, we can use clearly written tutorials for us beginners and those coming in, brand new to the software........ Just a thought. I know most artists dread writing a tutorial but it makes any software so much more accessible to new and beginner users alike; which is why I'm offering to help anyone brave enough to give it a go............ No pressure, of course; we all have our own busy lives and simply may not have the time. Thanks again for your suggestion; I've added it to my "learn how to do" list..............

Writers_Block posted at 5:20PM Sun, 19 February 2017 - #4297813

Erwin0265 posted at 12:45PM Sat, 18 February 2017 - #4297749

OK, looks like I'm double posting again; but it's to ask a different, simulation related, question. I have attached an image to show my problem; despite nailing certain parts of the Daemon skirt to G3F (collision), I'm finding some of the nailed parts still moving and distorting in the process. I am thinking it's due to the fact that nailed parts very close to G3F are nailed nice and solidly, but other parts (that I don't want to move at all) that are slightly further away from G3F are still being slightly effected by the simulation. The attached screencap shows 2 renders; one which shows the entire skirt in its post-simulation stage; the other where I deleted all the geometry of the skirt, except for the skirt front/back panels and added a new, unsimulated Daemon skirt with only the skirt front/back panels' geometry deleted (so as to bypass the problem but also to show the difference in certain parts that have become distorted, albeit only slightly). So my question is, how can I make sure certain parts a bit further away from the collision object (in this case, G3F) remain unaffected (ie. fully nailed) by the simulation?

If it's a static simulation, don't nail etc (just use Fixed Vertices and Clear Fixed); it's quick and simple to do. If I think i might want to fix and clear a few times I save the verts to memory.

Here is a test with another clothe (V4 Elven Arcana on G3F) with animation. I used rigidify for the metallic parts and they are not deformed. Didn't use self collision for the test that's why there are a lot of inter-penetration

Oh believe me, I know the power of VWD; but I also know how slow I am to understand certain concepts (perhaps that's why I was a good teacher, according to most of the kids I taught; I could understand why they couldn't and so I'd try as many different ways to explain it that I could think of - even letting kids that did understand have a go at explaining in their own way). And with a recorded IQ of 196 (on par with Einstein, apparently) - so much for IQ tests (all they show is how good you are at taking IQ tests..............lol). Rather than fill 5 - 10 pages of this forum thread with people trying to explain (for which I am grateful - the people on this forum are great), I'll wait for the new user guide and work from there - it will give me a sound base from where to start and will help me to understand when I need others' help. Thanks again for the effort, guys & gals............. But, don't forget - anyone wanting to write a tutorial; I'm at your disposal (but hope not to be disposed of.........).

Erwin0265 posted at 3:35PM Mon, 20 February 2017 - #4297894

Oh believe me, I know the power of VWD; but I also know how slow I am to understand certain concepts (perhaps that's why I was a good teacher, according to most of the kids I taught; I could understand why they couldn't and so I'd try as many different ways to explain it that I could think of - even letting kids that did understand have a go at explaining in their own way). And with a recorded IQ of 196 (on par with Einstein, apparently) - so much for IQ tests (all they show is how good you are at taking IQ tests..............lol). Rather than fill 5 - 10 pages of this forum thread with people trying to explain (for which I am grateful - the people on this forum are great), I'll wait for the new user guide and work from there - it will give me a sound base from where to start and will help me to understand when I need others' help. Thanks again for the effort, guys & gals............. But, don't forget - anyone wanting to write a tutorial; I'm at your disposal (but hope not to be disposed of.........).

Perfect!

@Erwin0265 : I am sure you will love the new documentation. This documentation, written by WimVDB is mainly for Poser because Wim is a Poser user. If you accept to improve this documentation for Daz Studio, this would be a great help for all Daz Studio users.

Gerald, I will do my best to contribute towards improving the manual for DS users; and I am happy to help anyone else wanting to do so; especially those that know more about using VWD in DS (which would be everyone on this forum...lol). Waiting patiently for the new user guide..... Looks like I'll just have to do pictures of bald, naked women for now............or, similarly (?)... dinosaurs.......Yay.... They say that insanity and genius are often the same thing.........well, I've got the insanity bit down, so......

Has the ability to grab the cloth and hair whilst holding the shift key been removed (Dynamic Simulation)?

EDIT: It only works for me now when the simulation is already running; previously, pressing the shift key would start the dynamic simulation.

I too have been missing the Shift-key grabber during the Dynamic Simulation with the new release of VWD. I used to use it (with the previous release) to adjust the cloth after Stopping the first run of the simulation to try to keep the cloth fitting nicely. But it doesn't seem to be working like it used to.

I haven't tried to use it while the simulation is actually running. Only after I've stopped it.

Iliked the fact that pressing the shift would make tiny adjustments, if released quickly; Just relaxing a some verts a little is very useful.

It's still available so not a huge issue, but slightly less versatile.

... And the manual seems to indicate that it should still work like it did in the previous version.

Yes, both the "new" and the "old" manuals describe it functioning just like in the previous release of VWD.

So far, I've only gotten it to work after the first dynamic simulation run is complete and only on specific frames after I stop the loop by pressing escape.

I hope somebody sees our remarks soon and comments one way or the other. I don't want to double post so I'll wait a bit before bringing it up in the Bug thread.

... agreed, I'd like to know it is a bug first.

In my mind, the shift key must work when a static simulation is running and when a dynamic simulation is finished, to correct some frames. Would you like to modify a frame during the simulation? ie to modify the latest simulated frame. I will make some tests with the old version.

To clarify how it used to work.

Before starting the simulation, with the Start button, it was possible to use the Shift key, and it would start the simulation. It was useful.

After stopping the simulation (with the Stop button), it was possible to use the Shift to continue the simulation.

Pressing the Shift whilst the simulation was running would move to the mode that allowed the dragging of the simulate (item being simulated). The simulation would always stop when releasing the Shift key, although it would still say it was running, and the button to stop the simulation was still active. It was definitely not running though.

At any time, obviously, one could grab some part of the simulate and drag it about.

Now, the only way to drag the simulate is while the simulation is running; releasing the Shift key no longer turns off the simulation; it seemed to be a bug, the fact the simulation stopped, and the buttons didn't change to reflect that - I remember posting about this weeks or months ago.

I think it is useful to start a thread concerning the use of the shift key.

So if I buy WVD and the DS bridge, do I need to have Poser installed to use it? I have most Poser versions upto Poser 2012, but I don't have any of them installed.

WVD lists Poser 9 as a requirement.

Thanks.

Hello MeInOhio,

No, you don't need any Poser version.

At first, VWD has been written for Poser and it directly works with it. Philemot made a great work by transforming the communication between VWD and Poser, in Python, to a direct communication with Daz Studio.

If you buy VWD and the bridge for Daz Studio the two programs will communicate directly, without other needs.

Have a great day.

 Gérald

Thanks. I just picked up VWD and the Daz bridge.