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Poser - OFFICIAL F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2024 Nov 25 12:38 pm)
Subject: Renderosity Acquires Poser Software
Khai-J-Bach posted at 6:44AM Sun, 23 June 2019 - #4354254
This is a crosshead screwdriver.
This is a slothead screwdriver.
Let the Holy War commence!
My opinion matters more than yours cos I shout louder!
LOUDER!!!!!
Yes ppl. Its that stupid. You are arguing about datasets and tools. Nothing more. Who cares if you use what dataset in what program? Are they holding a knife to your throat? What actually matters is, you use what suits you.
Now, do I have to use Mr Clue by Four to start teaching ppl to respect others?
I'm about ready to come outta retirement and start snarking again.
If you don't like the opinion just remember. Opinions are like arseholes. Everyone has one.
So calm the fuck down.
There's much to be said about that "higher than thou" attitude, but I'll just remind you that, for some of us, this is about our main source of income, it's not like we're talking about a cellphone game or something similar.
But alas, there's always that person who sees a discussion (and this one isn't a heated argument - I assure you, I've been in many) and wants to pretend to be better than everyone by claiming that things don't matter.
(and also, thanks for the offer, but I don't wish to be taught respect by someone who comes into an adult discussion going "calm the fuck down")
- - - - - -
Feel free to call me Ohki!
Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.
Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.
I added that last line in edit, and now it won't let me mark the post for language. Sorry about that.
- - - - - -
Feel free to call me Ohki!
Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.
Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.
Khai-J-Bach posted at 7:04AM Sun, 23 June 2019 - #4354269
I don't claim to be better. Those are words your adding all by yourself.
I just want the fighting and snarking of the poserites and the cult of daz to stop
That is all. Each side is as bad as the other.
This is why this issue is unsolvable. Because people run in screaming, STOP! STOP! SHUT UP!
Let the damn conversation be discussed so we can all come to some kind of ADULT end to this.
Nobody in the conversation was ugly, personal, nor demeaning. We are all so far apart from understanding the other point of view that no one can see past the stupid screaming of others wanting it to go away. It's not going away. That much is clear.
The bottom line is simple. You can't HAVE DAZ figures in Poser without killing everything Poser IS. The technology, the entire rigging system, the morphing system, the models themselves are too divergent to use them BOTH in the same software.
The best that can be done is the Hivewire approach - figures rigged for Poser and figures rigged for DS. That's the only workable solution.
And, just like with Hivewire it's on DAZ to create a Poser version of their figures. Rendo/Poser have no responsibility for that development.
Khai-J-Bach posted at 7:33AM Sun, 23 June 2019 - #4354272
The "conversation" has been half a decade or more of back biting, snark and general bad feeling of a few.
Its time for that few to stop.
And it will stop just as soon as the few clamoring for Poser to accommodate DS figures natively takes the conversation where it belongs - to DAZ.
Anyone else attempting to do so would be violating DAZ copyright.
As I pointed out in another post, SOME people, mostly those who don't even currently, or ever, use Poser want some major changes in Poser. Genesis native in Poser, Lighting changes, Poser for free, even adding Iray. If it were that easy, I believe Smith Micro would have already have done it. If it were easy and cheap, I believe Smith Micro would have already have done it. But there's one major roadblock, the Poser base code. As we've been told over the past few years, adding or changing things to Poser would require a massive rewrite of the Poser code from the ground up. Yet this information is either ignored or just not noticed, over and over and over.
Even so, I still believe that Bondware/Renderosity's purchase of Poser will be for the best of the overall content market and the app itself.
EClark1894 posted at 10:37AM Sun, 23 June 2019 - #4354277
As I pointed out in another post, SOME people, mostly those who don't even currently, or ever, use Poser want some major changes in Poser. Genesis native in Poser, Lighting changes, Poser for free, even adding Iray. If it were that easy, I believe Smith Micro would have already have done it. If it were easy and cheap, I believe Smith Micro would have already have done it. But there's one major roadblock, the Poser base code. As we've been told over the past few years, adding or changing things to Poser would require a massive rewrite of the Poser code from the ground up. Yet this information is either ignored or just not noticed, over and over and over.
Even so, I still believe that Bondware/Renderosity's purchase of Poser will be for the best of the overall content market and the app itself.
You may be right. Poser's code may just be so old or written in a way that a good working plugin of a Daz figure import couldn't be possible. But it never hurts to ask ;). By the same token, some people might want to see a Character Creator figure importer. Or an Unreal Engine exporter. Blender Exporter. The possibilities are there, one just needs to ask.
Laurie
Glitterati3D posted at 4:01PM Sun, 23 June 2019 - #4354273
Khai-J-Bach posted at 7:33AM Sun, 23 June 2019 - #4354272
The "conversation" has been half a decade or more of back biting, snark and general bad feeling of a few.
Its time for that few to stop.
And it will stop just as soon as the few clamoring for Poser to accommodate DS figures natively takes the conversation where it belongs - to DAZ.
Anyone else attempting to do so would be violating DAZ copyright.
To quote
the prosecution rests
FBX format, which Poser 11 added support for, is the best and easiest (for a dev team to update) means I can see of moving stuff between different applications which is what it is used for already. Dedicated import/export plug-ins would be ideal but would have to be maintained and updated with every change to the other application. It is possible - look at the plug-in for Octane, developed by face_off, for an example - but would take time and effort, so IMO would be best done by a third-party.
To the best of my knowledge, a core rewrite of Poser would only be necessary to address what vilters calls the 'masterbug' which is just the way that Poser has handled skinning (i.e. how it assigns bones to geometry internally) since the first version.
----------------------------------------
Not approved by Scarfolk Council. For more information please reread. Or visit my local shop.
As Glitterati3D said above there is nothing wrong with wanting a plugin to use DAZ figures in Poser, but that request should and in fact MUST be aimed at DAZ not Poser's owners. Among the reasons for that are the fact that Bondware/Rendo have a program they expect to SELL... for a PROFIT. In order to incorporate DAZ's proprietary handlers they would need to license the tech from DAZ (a fact that I'm sure DAZ thought of when creating such technology). Therefore Bondware/Rendo would have to pay for said liciense causing the price for Poser to increase or the profit margin to decrease, both undesirable outcomes. Another is that DAZ knows their tech... Bondware/Rendo would have to PAY their development team to first learn Poser (if they aren't already familiar with it) AND Daz's technology (If not familiar with it). time is money so the cost for the learning time would need to be passed on the the end users, again an undesired out come for (little?) gain.
All fof these arguments apply for IRay, etc. This is NOT the way a company wants to think after just acquiring a software. Best to keep things relatively stable and look to make IMPROVEMENTS to current software tech, until some profits are made that can be rolled back into research and development.
As for figures.. I believe Rendo has a strong investment (if not outright ownership) of LaFemme and the projected L'Homme figure, ( reading between the lines here). Laemme has had one upgrade already to make her more friendly for content creators and users. She is a very quality figure in my opinion, and may well be the first change Bondware/Rendo makes to the software. Give the new owners a chance to run some of the shine off their new purchase. Keep calm (aka civil) and see where they plan to take Poser, before getting too heated!
One thing I do hope for is that Bondware/Renderosity will set up some kind of system for reporting bugs and making suggestions, and then LISTEN to them. One thing I've often gotten mad at SM over the years is that any suggestions for making programming improvements often seemed to fall on deaf ears.
EClark1894 posted at 1:03PM Sun, 23 June 2019 - #4354326
One thing I do hope for is that Bondware/Renderosity will set up some kind of system for reporting bugs and making suggestions, and then LISTEN to them. One thing I've often gotten mad at SM over the years is that any suggestions for making programming improvements often seemed to fall on deaf ears.
Man, this has bugged the crap out of me for so long. The greatest tool they have imho is the direct manipulation tool and they friggin took the scaling feature away from it. I constantly asked why in multiple threads started by SM and I never got an answer and they never added it back.
Congrats on the Rendo-Poser deal! For all I hope that Esther's wish comes true. estherau posted at 10:46AM Sun, 23 June 2019 - #4354250
Please renderosity, tell us there is a team of software developers assigned with continuing to develop poser, and let us know for certain that we can look forward to poser 12, and that we are welcome to give suggestions and feature requests to someone please. Love esther
EClark, JohnDoe, between you , you have shown the problem. When people say the devs should listen to suggestions, they mean listen to their suggestions. I hated the direct manipulation tool before it was changed, tried it and never used, but now use it frequently. So what happens? JD asks for it to be changed back, they change it back. Then I ask for them to change it back again etc. And this is what leads to these heated discussions on forums, if someone makes a suggestion others feel they must put forward their opposing view or else the devs might believe everybody likes the suggestion and listen and do something about it, which will change things for the worse for them. It's said a camel is a horse designed by committee, for poser not to become a misshapen camel, the devs and owners need to have a clear vision of where they are taking it, yes listen to the general direction people want to go, incorporate good ideas that are suggested which help moving poser in the correct way, but don't let other cause them to deviate from their chosen path.
Nails60 posted at 3:11PM Sun, 23 June 2019 - #4354344
EClark, JohnDoe, between you , you have shown the problem. When people say the devs should listen to suggestions, they mean listen to their suggestions. I hated the direct manipulation tool before it was changed, tried it and never used, but now use it frequently. So what happens? JD asks for it to be changed back, they change it back. Then I ask for them to change it back again etc. And this is what leads to these heated discussions on forums, if someone makes a suggestion others feel they must put forward their opposing view or else the devs might believe everybody likes the suggestion and listen and do something about it, which will change things for the worse for them. It's said a camel is a horse designed by committee, for poser not to become a misshapen camel, the devs and owners need to have a clear vision of where they are taking it, yes listen to the general direction people want to go, incorporate good ideas that are suggested which help moving poser in the correct way, but don't let other cause them to deviate from their chosen path.
Of course you will have some disagreements. Every year, someone kept asking for Nurbs in Poser to simulate liquids. I opposed that. On the other hand, the last year Steve Cooper was with Poser I asked for the ability to auto-save what you were working on, and lo and behold the next release it was in there. I haven't heard any one complain yet.
emjay247 posted at 2:56PM Sun, 23 June 2019 - #4354317
I am in support of this transaction and was able to purchase an upgrade from Poser 11 to Poser Pro 11 over the weekend. ($99 US, Thanks Renderosity!). Hopefully other Poser users will do the same to help keep the ball rolling.
I upgraded to Pro as soon as they released it, but I am planning to buy a Prime membership today. I had let it lapse, but there's enough La Femme content now to make it worth my while. And, like you, I want to throw a few cents in the pot to help Rosity develop Poser Pro 12. Whichever direction it goes...
caisson posted at 4:26PM Sun, 23 June 2019 - #4354318
FBX format, which Poser 11 added support for, is the best and easiest (for a dev team to update) means I can see of moving stuff between different applications which is what it is used for already. Dedicated import/export plug-ins would be ideal but would have to be maintained and updated with every change to the other application. It is possible - look at the plug-in for Octane, developed by face_off, for an example - but would take time and effort, so IMO would be best done by a third-party.
Exactly what I meant to say earlier - I'm all for allowing addons that could make Genesis work in Poser, but that's not on the developers of Poser to make the specific addon themselves.
To the best of my knowledge, a core rewrite of Poser would only be necessary to address what vilters calls the 'masterbug' which is just the way that Poser has handled skinning (i.e. how it assigns bones to geometry internally) since the first version.
Ooooh, sounds daunting. Could that be possible to fix without breaking existing content?
- - - - - -
Feel free to call me Ohki!
Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.
Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.
My worry is that the Poser community has shrank so much the whole endeavor is on life support. Are there any decent artists left rendering in Poser ? Don't get me wrong, there are some incredibly technical proficient guys in the Poser World. If you want to know the intricacies of weight mapping and JCMs, they are your man /woman. And yet for years Poser has come up with figures that were hopeless. Why did people leave to join Daz ? Let me tell you, that wasn't because of the superiority of Daz Studio. It was all about the superiority of the Daz figures. What are people screaming about on this thread ? They want Daz figures in Poser. Is this because of the superiority of the weight mapping, flexibility of the figures ? Of course not. They want figures that look good. That's it. When all you have is the Trabant, the two stroke communist peoples car, it is easy to see why you may be jealous of the other sides BMW. Yeah, but if your side had Mercedes or Audi would you be so desperate to go over to the other side ? I think not.
The guys behind Poser never really got that. The purpose of the program was not to render figures, it was to render aesthetically pleasing figures. When I saw what Pauline was going to look like, I pleaded in the RuntimeDNA forum for them to delay her introduction. Not only did they rush her out, they promoted the Poser program with her ! Look everyone, if you buy this program, you get to own a Trabant. Joy. And then we have the association problem. If you think Pauline is garbage, just think what the program must be like ! What were they thinking ?
And then we have La Femme. The poor girl fell out of the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down. I said this from the beginning and I have and will receive huge push back from stating this. They have taken a Trabant and put a modern engine in it. The reality is that this is not how humans work. Beautiful people are deemed to be of better character and higher intelligence, just by how they look. Looks is everything.
I've said this before. The director of Back to the Future turned down significant sponsorship from Ford to feature a Dolorean as the time machine. It was questionable the Delorean could even reach 88 mph (they changed the speedo). Who cares ? What does it look like !
So what do I want from Poser ? Nothing. OK, yes it is about time we have a Tesla in the works as Erogenesis points out. However, at the moment I'd just like to trade in the Trebant.
If I may suggest something?
If a vendor comes in with a static prop, like, say, a house whose doors are not designed to open and whose windows stay firmly locked — a model meant for exterior use only — it might be in their financial interest to provide this in both DS and Poser formats. Many vendors here do already, and kudos to them. But I've heard "Oh, that's too hard!" "Oh, that takes weeks and weeks to do!" — when, actually, it doesnt. I can move a prop out of DS and into Poser in a few clicks: the tools are all there. And I really do not understand vendors who insist that they cant do it.
If they cant, then perhaps Rondo could assign that to an in-house team and put it on the market, at a reduced royalty to the vendor. Maybe then they'll be motivated a bit?
docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider
I don't think the poser community is as shrunk as all that.
Any decent artists left ... well, look at the poser gallery. You'll find average art there, for sure, but also outstanding images. Besides, I'd think poser artists of every level would be decent artists. We can't be all Picassos or Da Vincis, but we can enjoy what we do, and after all that's what counts.
La Femme - out of the ugly tree?
Dialed- in morph (La Femme being the darker skinned girl on the left...)
Varnayrah posted at 8:59AM Mon, 24 June 2019 - #4354436
I don't think the poser community is as shrunk as all that. Any decent artists left ... well, look at the poser gallery. You'll find average art there, for sure, but also outstanding images. Besides, I'd think poser artists of every level would be decent artists. We can't be all Picassos or Da Vincis, but we can enjoy what we do, and after all that's what counts. La Femme - out of the ugly tree?
Not impressed. Let's see one full head shot of La Femme that looks vaguely decent. This is an open competition to all reading. I will then compare it to a Daz example of how it should look. That includes V4 by the way. Even with the morph dials, that is very tricky, and I haven't managed it
qaz posted at 10:08AM Mon, 24 June 2019 - #4354430
My worry is that the Poser community has shrank so much the whole endeavor is on life support. Are there any decent artists left rendering in Poser ? Don't get me wrong, there are some incredibly technical proficient guys in the Poser World. If you want to know the intricacies of weight mapping and JCMs, they are your man /woman. And yet for years Poser has come up with figures that were hopeless. Why did people leave to join Daz ? Let me tell you, that wasn't because of the superiority of Daz Studio. It was all about the superiority of the Daz figures. What are people screaming about on this thread ? They want Daz figures in Poser. Is this because of the superiority of the weight mapping, flexibility of the figures ? Of course not. They want figures that look good. That's it. When all you have is the Trabant, the two stroke communist peoples car, it is easy to see why you may be jealous of the other sides BMW. Yeah, but if your side had Mercedes or Audi would you be so desperate to go over to the other side ? I think not.
The guys behind Poser never really got that. The purpose of the program was not to render figures, it was to render aesthetically pleasing figures. When I saw what Pauline was going to look like, I pleaded in the RuntimeDNA forum for them to delay her introduction. Not only did they rush her out, they promoted the Poser program with her ! Look everyone, if you buy this program, you get to own a Trabant. Joy. And then we have the association problem. If you think Pauline is garbage, just think what the program must be like ! What were they thinking ?
And then we have La Femme. The poor girl fell out of the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down. I said this from the beginning and I have and will receive huge push back from stating this. They have taken a Trabant and put a modern engine in it. The reality is that this is not how humans work. Beautiful people are deemed to be of better character and higher intelligence, just by how they look. Looks is everything.
I've said this before. The director of Back to the Future turned down significant sponsorship from Ford to feature a Dolorean as the time machine. It was questionable the Delorean could even reach 88 mph (they changed the speedo). Who cares ? What does it look like !
So what do I want from Poser ? Nothing. OK, yes it is about time we have a Tesla in the works as Erogenesis points out. However, at the moment I'd just like to trade in the Trebant.
Bwahahahahahahahaha and I guess you think Genesis out of the box is "pretty?" And thunder thighs Genesis 3? Pretty? Bwahahahahahahahahahaha!
You know, Poser users don't go to DAZ forums and demean, degrade and post just plain nasty sh*t like this. You know why? It's called CLASS. The Poser crowd obviously has better manners than DS users.
You can sound quite hurtful, you know, qaz. I shouldn't have answered to your post, my fault. I'll not waste my time again. I'll just concentrate on making images - in poser and with whatever figure I like. I won't take part in the competition about a decent portrait of La Femme? Why? Because I won't cater to your standards of beauty and won't compete where you alone define what's decent and pretty or beautiful.
docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider
Varnayrah posted at 10:23AM Mon, 24 June 2019 - #4354436
I don't think the poser community is as shrunk as all that. Any decent artists left ... well, look at the poser gallery. You'll find average art there, for sure, but also outstanding images. Besides, I'd think poser artists of every level would be decent artists. We can't be all Picassos or Da Vincis, but we can enjoy what we do, and after all that's what counts. La Femme - out of the ugly tree? Dialed- in morph (La Femme being the darker skinned girl on the left...)
I dont know what the clown expected to see, but I find this rather gorgeous work. Kudos, ma'am.
docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider
Glitterati3D posted at 9:28AM Mon, 24 June 2019 - #4354441
qaz posted at 10:08AM Mon, 24 June 2019 - #4354430
My worry is that the Poser community has shrank so much the whole endeavor is on life support. Are there any decent artists left rendering in Poser ? Don't get me wrong, there are some incredibly technical proficient guys in the Poser World. If you want to know the intricacies of weight mapping and JCMs, they are your man /woman. And yet for years Poser has come up with figures that were hopeless. Why did people leave to join Daz ? Let me tell you, that wasn't because of the superiority of Daz Studio. It was all about the superiority of the Daz figures. What are people screaming about on this thread ? They want Daz figures in Poser. Is this because of the superiority of the weight mapping, flexibility of the figures ? Of course not. They want figures that look good. That's it. When all you have is the Trabant, the two stroke communist peoples car, it is easy to see why you may be jealous of the other sides BMW. Yeah, but if your side had Mercedes or Audi would you be so desperate to go over to the other side ? I think not.
The guys behind Poser never really got that. The purpose of the program was not to render figures, it was to render aesthetically pleasing figures. When I saw what Pauline was going to look like, I pleaded in the RuntimeDNA forum for them to delay her introduction. Not only did they rush her out, they promoted the Poser program with her ! Look everyone, if you buy this program, you get to own a Trabant. Joy. And then we have the association problem. If you think Pauline is garbage, just think what the program must be like ! What were they thinking ?
And then we have La Femme. The poor girl fell out of the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down. I said this from the beginning and I have and will receive huge push back from stating this. They have taken a Trabant and put a modern engine in it. The reality is that this is not how humans work. Beautiful people are deemed to be of better character and higher intelligence, just by how they look. Looks is everything.
I've said this before. The director of Back to the Future turned down significant sponsorship from Ford to feature a Dolorean as the time machine. It was questionable the Delorean could even reach 88 mph (they changed the speedo). Who cares ? What does it look like !
So what do I want from Poser ? Nothing. OK, yes it is about time we have a Tesla in the works as Erogenesis points out. However, at the moment I'd just like to trade in the Trebant.
Bwahahahahahahahaha and I guess you think Genesis out of the box is "pretty?" And thunder thighs Genesis 3? Pretty? Bwahahahahahahahahahaha!
You know, Poser users don't go to DAZ forums and demean, degrade and post just plain nasty sh*t like this. You know why? It's called CLASS. The Poser crowd obviously has better manners than DS users.
Well I know it's stepping on toes, but I am stating the truth. Grow a pair. As far as this drivel about Daz users versus poser users, I call BS on that. This is not some juvenile game of our side is better than your side. For your information I've never used Daz Studio or Genesis. I do however know good art when I see it.
Neither do I want to see Genesis in Poser. There are plenty in this thread who have pointed out the disadvantages of that. Face facts. People want Daz characters because they are BETTER than Poser figures.
SeanMartin posted at 9:47AM Mon, 24 June 2019 - #4354445
I dont know what the clown expected to see, but I find this rather gorgeous work. Kudos, ma'am.
I think it's an excellent composition. Full marks to the artist. That isn't the point. I repeat. Show me a FULL HEAD SHOT of La Femme that looks half way decent.
SeanMartin posted at 10:51AM Mon, 24 June 2019 - #4354443
qaz posted at 10:22AM Mon, 24 June 2019 - #4354440
Not impressed.
Pity.
Shameful, isn't it? You can almost SMELL the DAZ fear coming off these posts. They might actually have to COMPETE!
Glitterati3D posted at 10:55AM Mon, 24 June 2019 - #4354441
You know, Poser users don't go to DAZ forums and demean, degrade and post just plain nasty sh*t like this. You know why? It's called CLASS. The Poser crowd obviously has better manners than DS users.
You know Tracy, I wish that was 100% true. The sad fact I've found is, a lot of Poser users just don't go to the DAZ forums anymore, mostly because any comments they make about Poser, or the Genesis characters, are immediately deleted by the Mods on the DAZ forums. It's the main reason the only DAZ forum I'll go near is the Bryce forum, mostly because that was the first 3D software application I bought, and still use.
That's not to say the Poser users are making nasty comments on the DAZ forum, the folks there just don't want to see any comments from Poser users. It's sad and, unfortunately, there isn't much we can do about it.
_______________
OK . . . Where's my chocolate?
And I'll repeat again. Not a DS user. Never have been. I will also point out gain that I'm perfectly happy with Poser.
People don't seem to have a problem criticising the program, but dare to criticise any of the figures ...... well that's the unforgivable sin.
I repeat again. People went to Daz to get the figures. People want Daz figures in Poser, because they are better than any Poser alternative. You lot really are sad.
I thought I'd only see "completely personal opinions" being claimed to be FACTS in uneducated-level political discussions on Facebook - alas, I'm disappointed to see this spread.
Qaz, "she's ugly out of the box" CANNOT, ever, be a FACT - because "ugly" is subjective. V4 was the most successful figure and I spent years before I could get her to not be what I think is ugly. La Femme on the other hand, first time I loaded her into Poser, rendered her in the default lights and I legit gasped - seriously, my husband asked me what happened. I thought she was absurdly beautiful. Out of the box. Under Poser's default ugly lights.
Bottom line is, you speak as if an entire figure should be completely made to suit YOUR aesthetic tastes, and that's just... I'll refrain from saying what this feels like to me, because I don't want to be rude.
- - - - - -
Feel free to call me Ohki!
Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.
Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.
Miss B posted at 11:17AM Mon, 24 June 2019 - #4354457
Glitterati3D posted at 10:55AM Mon, 24 June 2019 - #4354441
You know, Poser users don't go to DAZ forums and demean, degrade and post just plain nasty sh*t like this. You know why? It's called CLASS. The Poser crowd obviously has better manners than DS users.
You know Tracy, I wish that was 100% true. The sad fact I've found is, a lot of Poser users just don't go to the DAZ forums anymore, mostly because any comments they make about Poser, or the Genesis characters, are immediately deleted by the Mods on the DAZ forums. It's the main reason the only DAZ forum I'll go near is the Bryce forum, mostly because that was the first 3D software application I bought, and still use.
That's not to say the Poser users are making nasty comments on the DAZ forum, the folks there just don't want to see any comments from Poser users. It's sad and, unfortunately, there isn't much we can do about it.
In mixed forums I've seen the same thing repeat and repeat. DS users come into a POSER forum, take over, and degrade Poser users to the point that they all leave. There's one forum I used to frequent where there's not ONE Poser user left.
It's not ALL DS users, and I tried to edit my post to add "SOME" but I was too late. I regret that I worded that so poorly.
Now, while I do agree that people went to Daz for the figures, it wasn't because X or Y figure is "ugly" out of the box - it's because X figure has a lot of products for it and thus offers so many options for you to render, while Y figure has a tiny selection of characters and clothes and hairstyles.
On "Show me a FULL HEAD SHOT of La Femme that looks half way decent." honestly, show me what's in it for me to go through the trouble of a specific render you want, (and again it would be several renders until the person guesses what "half way decent" means for you specifically) because otherwise you're just thinking your personal opinion has a much higher value than it actually does.
- - - - - -
Feel free to call me Ohki!
Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.
Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.
Why do people keep stating opinion as fact or truth. qaz, your opinion 0f beauty is just. You started criticising La Feeme from day one Oh, I can't find how to select the head or neck this is terrible! I remember that vividly .For f**8, as somebody so wedded to v4 they have never looked at the hierarchy of other figures, it's laughable that you complain about how La Femme looks out of the box. You step on toes because of your arrogance,!
I looked back to see where this whole conversation went off the rails and it seems to be when figures started getting discussed. I think there are two legitimate issues here, (1) it doesn't matter which figures are used in Poser as long as there are a full set of them, and a way to move clothing between them without having to buy it all over again each time a new generation is hatched. DAZ has gone through great lengths to make that happen, and the PA's have added extra tools where autofit falls short (for a price of course, but it is still a lot cheaper than buying it all again). Poser needs something like that to be viable for use by non-content creators.
(2) It would benefit both platforms if they adhered to a standard on content as much as possible. I'm not saying so that you can use content created in DAZ in Poser, I'm saying that it should go both ways. This would help both the content creators, who would get a larger market for little additional work, and the content users, who wouldn't have to worry about if what they are spending money on will work in the program they are using.
I'm not getting into the debate about V4 vs Genesis vs La Femme vs Dawn vs Project E etc because I really don't care. My only point is that as a content user I don't want to have to buy the same class items to fit each one, and I am going to settle on one set simply because my wallet only stretches so far.
FlagonsWorkshop posted at 11:59AM Mon, 24 June 2019 - #4354476
I looked back to see where this whole conversation went off the rails and it seems to be when figures started getting discussed. I think there are two legitimate issues here, (1) it doesn't matter which figures are used in Poser as long as there are a full set of them, and a way to move clothing between them without having to buy it all over again each time a new generation is hatched. DAZ has gone through great lengths to make that happen, and the PA's have added extra tools where autofit falls short (for a price of course, but it is still a lot cheaper than buying it all again). Poser needs something like that to be viable for use by non-content creators.
(2) It would benefit both platforms if they adhered to a standard on content as much as possible. I'm not saying so that you can use content created in DAZ in Poser, I'm saying that it should go both ways. This would help both the content creators, who would get a larger market for little additional work, and the content users, who wouldn't have to worry about if what they are spending money on will work in the program they are using.
I'm not getting into the debate about V4 vs Genesis vs La Femme vs Dawn vs Project E etc because I really don't care. My only point is that as a content user I don't want to have to buy the same class items to fit each one, and I am going to settle on one set simply because my wallet only stretches so far.
But that's not true, FlagsonWorkshop. Just take a run over to the DAZ store and search on Morphing Fantasy Dress. Every generation has had a NEW MFD created for THAT generation. And, it's not just the MFD.
DAZ resells the same thing for every generation. And they wouldn't do so if it didn't generate income.
qaz posted at 12:10PM Mon, 24 June 2019 - #4354462
And I'll repeat again. Not a DS user. Never have been. I will also point out gain that I'm perfectly happy with Poser.
People don't seem to have a problem criticising the program, but dare to criticise any of the figures ...... well that's the unforgivable sin.
I repeat again. People went to Daz to get the figures. People want Daz figures in Poser, because they are better than any Poser alternative.
Now, before anyone has a breakdown, this WAS the number one reason for me. It's not because I was such a fan of the software. It frustrated the hell out of me when I first started and sometimes still does (but then Poser did too at times). But the last ten years I used Poser I did almost zero renders. I only made stuff FOR Poser. With DS I actually make renders. Haven't done that in a decade. It brought back my creativity or my muse, so to speak - something I'd wish I'd gotten from Poser. Those who know me know I used Poser for a LONG LONG time. I didn't wanna give it up. But I felt like I'd been abandoned by SM and didn't have much choice. Because SM needed people like me more than I needed them, I felt only the smallest feelings of guilt for giving it up. After all, it's me it has to please, not SM, not Rendo, not the Poser forumites. And if Poser gets updated, and it's better, I'll switch again. I am not married to software. I will use what is best for what I'm trying to do. But I did love using Poser. It's just that SM killed the love I had for it.
And before anyone starts going off on anyone else, please remember that even the DS users in this thread wish nothing but the best for Poser. It's ok for people to want different things. It's about time we all started trying to get along :). NO ONE so far is degrading Poser users. One is getting a user confused with the software or a character. Not the same thing. So please be civil. Please.
Laurie
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Please boys and girls, please not again.
I have been playing with Poser from Poser 1, and have been a member here since the good old days, been beta testing Poser for close to 10 years, and trying to help customers since God only knows when.
It was fights like these that made a lot of us flee to RDNA till that site got sold out, then we continued "in peace" at the SM forums.
Both lost forums, RDNA and the ex-SM, contained a ton of tech info. I remember clearly the very open and honest and lengthy technical discussions I had with Steve Cooper in the RDNA ambassadors den, when I invented the fitting room. Steve wrote the specs, and the team coded it.
Now that Bondware and Renderosity bought the poser app, please let us have some mature and constructive discussions and help Poser go forward.
Now I have a new cloth building idea, but don't have a clue who to talk to any more.
Give both companies the time to sort things out and we will see from there.
The whole DS - Poser discussion, or Genesis implementation is pointless. DAZ chose to leave Poser compatibility, and one can not make one company depend on another companies technology.
As for why most left Poser in the past? That question is so simple to answer that most forget that all men (and women) want to date the most beautiful wo(men) in town. It was not the app, both apps have their strong and weaker points, it was the quality of the content provided.
While PE and La Femme tried to fill that gap, none come close to the pure content quality that DAZ has on offer (at this point in time). PE being a good figure, but technically too advanced for the average home-alone end user that opens Poser on a calm evening night, and wants to go to bed with a finished render an hr later. La Femme is a very popular figure because she is very flexible and renders very nicely, but technically speaking, this is not the way you want Poser content to go in the long run.
Give both companies time to sort the transfer out, and let us hope they can build a team and competent technical hardcore beta-testers to bring Poser successfully into 2020.
Best regards all, and have a nice W-End, Tony