My graphics machine is firewalled and not allowed on to the web. I still find that a physical air gap is the best security from viruses.

Does Poser 11.2 accommodate offline operation?

I would like to know if Poser 11.2 needs to check in on the web to continue operating. I've seen this question asked in a number of threads but have not seen the answer.

I'll let some from from Bondware give you an official answer, but the unofficial one is "yes". I expect my internet service to be disconnected anytime now. Frankly, I'm surprised it hasn't. Still, I put in a ticket and asked about it and they gave me an extended license, hopefully until I can restore my service. My suggestion is for you to put in a ticket and state your case to Bondware. They seem to be willing to deal with it on a case by case situation.

I just had my second 'unable to contact licence server' popup in 9 days. Allegedly it phones home every 4 weeks. Allegedly.

Contact support & request an extended lease/grace-period on your license Connect your computer to the Internet Register with your SN. After registering, you should then be able to use your computer off-line for the duration of the lease. Let them know your circumstances and I am sure they will work with you to reach an accommodation.

I'm hopeful, but also disappointed. The kill switch has been a real hassle under Smith Micro. I really thought Rendo would get rid of it. I can still run my older versions of Poser, those that are the pre-Smith Micro debacle.

I don't see what purpose a kill switch serves in a community like this, especially when competing against DAZ which is free. I'm not completely sorry I updated to Game Developer from Poser Pro 2014, but logging on to see the sudden planned death message unless I contort to keep it alive has been a large negative. I paid almost $200 ($189?) to buy 11.1 as an early adopter and I refuse to load it.

I think I would want a permanent lease on the machine before I upgrade to 11.2. I generally have not gone back to load old software on new machines, unless the old software had some features that were discontinued in newer versions, so the permanent lease on the machine would probably be an acceptable compromise.

The only way I would accept a kill switch is (a) if there were no other software alternative and I needed it professionally [think adobe] or if it were a "lease to buy", which means I couldn't afford to buy it outright, but once I did I'd be free of the kill switch from then on.

I'm thinking of switching to DAZ if my 'permanent license' on Game Developer becomes not so permanent.

For the moment my physical shipment of 11.1 will have to stay in its DVD case.

Hmm, just wondering. Aside from the non-kill switch thingie, what would Studio offer you that you can't get from Poser? I ask because if the kill switch were the only thing, why are you spending money on Poser anyway?

Actually if you read the System Requirements when you buy Poser at posersoftware.com it states clearly that

• Product requires your choice of online or offline activation.

this would make a customer think that he can work offline ... and my personal meaning is that it is misleading a customer and a edge-walk on Fraud I could not find any other statements or Eula about the usage of the new Poser

Quote Sell Page .....

Poser Pro 11

Price: $ 199.00 Poser Pro 11 is the complete solution for creating art and animation with 3D characters. Includes over 5 GB of human and animal figures and 3D elements. Render scenes into photorealistic images and video for web, print, and film projects. As a standalone character animation system, or as a component in your production pipeline, Poser Pro 11 is the most efficient way for content creation professionals and production teams to add pre-rigged, fully-textured, posable and animation ready 3D characters in any project.

System Requirements

System requirements for Poser installation are as follows:

Windows

• Windows 7, 8.1, or 10 (64-bit OS required for installation)

• 1.3 GHz Pentium 4 or newer, Athlon 64 or newer (1.65 GHz or faster recommended)

• 1 GB system RAM (4 GB or more recommended)

• OpenGL enabled graphics card or chipset recommended (recent nVIDIA GeForce and ATI Radeon required for advanced real-time preview features)

• 24-bit color display, 1440 x 900 minimum resolution

• 3 GB free hard disk space (6 GB recommended)

• DVD-ROM drive (physical product only)

• Windows® Internet Explorer® 9 or newer

• Product requires your choice of online or offline activation.

The following requirements are for Poser Pro only features:

• CUDA enabled device required for hardware accelerated final rendering (2 GB RAM minimum, Compute Capability 2.0 minimum)

Mac

• Mac OS X 10.9, 10.10 or 10.11

• 2 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo processor (64-bit CPU required)

• 1 GB system RAM (4 GB or more recommended)

• OpenGL enabled graphics card or chipset recommended (recent nVIDIA GeForce and ATI Radeon required for advanced real-time preview features)

• 24-bit color display, 1440 x 900 minimum resolution

• 3 GB free hard disk space (6 GB recommended)

• DVD-ROM drive (physical product only)

• Product requires your choice of online or offline activation.

The following requirements are for Poser Pro only features:

• CUDA enabled device required for hardware accelerated final rendering (2 GB RAM minimum, Compute Capability 2.0 minimum)

$349.99 USD 40% OFF Price: $199.00 USD.

If you are member of Renderosity please click the following button:

Well, to be honest, it doesn't explicitly say you can work offline. Just that you can activate it on OR offline, which, I think you can. So, no, I don't see any misleading information.

It actually does as if Poser is being disabled while being offline then the term Offline activation would not be true , else you could reactivate offline ( Or Not ? ) so let it expire , or have a shot by removing your licence and try to reactivate offline LOL I think that it will not happen!

actually it should state that Poser needs to be periodically connected Online else the licence would expire, this would be serious business !

Smith micro did not have to state that it needs a Internet connection! As it never would of been deactivated if the user was not connected or had it fire-walled.

this is how it should be explained and how Smith Micro is handling licences to make sure to avoid any conflicts !!!

You have a choice between online and offline activation. You will have a seven-day grace period before activation becomes mandatory.

If you perform an online activation, Moho will require an activation refresh every 45 days. If you’re connected to the internet, this refresh will be done automatically. If you’re not connected to the internet at the refresh point, you will have a seven-day grace period before the refresh becomes mandatory. If you choose to do an offline (“manual”) activation, Moho will require an activation refresh every 180 days and you will have a seven-day grace period to perform this manual refresh.

During any seven-day grace period, you will only be able to use the Moho Debut feature set. Moho single-seat license has a 'like a book' policy. If you purchase a single-seat license, Moho can be installed and activated on up to three devices or OS installations, but only one person can use the software at one time. If you wish to purchase a multi-seat license, please visit our website for volume pricing.

To ensure you are not blocked from installing and activating Moho on your computer after re-installing your OS or buying a new computer – please make sure to deactivate the application from within Moho via Help > Deactivate License.

this would answer many questions also there would be a grace Period the user is warned 7 day's before that he will need to connect for a check !!!

see also the differences between Manual and connected Activation , in the case of Bondware it does not seem to have a Offline activation at all !!! this sample shows that it also can be reactivated offline after the Period of 180 day's

so where the hell are the correct conditions of Bondware since they took over the Licence from Smith Micro ... I have to assume that the rules remained the same as there has not been any Updates on them.

gate posted at 4:41PM Thu, 17 October 2019 - #4367477

Smith micro did not have to state that it needs a Internet connection! As it never would of been deactivated if the user was not connected or had it fire-walled.

Not true. If you didn't get a permanent license, Poser would shut down permanently if it couldn't communicate with the server. PP2014GD and Poser 11.

This hasn't changed from SM - only the duration between "phone home" sessions has changed.

Glitterati3D posted at 10:48PM Thu, 17 October 2019 - #4367480

gate posted at 4:41PM Thu, 17 October 2019 - #4367477

Smith micro did not have to state that it needs a Internet connection! As it never would of been deactivated if the user was not connected or had it fire-walled.

Not true. If you didn't get a permanent license, Poser would shut down permanently if it couldn't communicate with the server. PP2014GD and Poser 11.

This hasn't changed from SM - only the duration between "phone home" sessions has changed.

Well then it sure is strange that I use a firewalled and blocked Poser 11.1 since the beginning without that I made a Permanent Licence as my Poser never connected to the servers after activation .... ( Must be a Glitch )

Still the Info given is Miss-leading and does not state anywhere the conditions about having to be connected or do you think that a customer first goes to these forums to be able to check that it needs Periodic activation else Poser goes Puff ???

gate posted at 5:09PM Thu, 17 October 2019 - #4367477

It actually does as if Poser is being disabled while being offline then the term Offline activation would not be true , else you could reactivate offline ( Or Not ? ) so let it expire, or have a shot by removing your licence and try to reactivate offline LOL I think that it will not happen!

You're reading something into it that isn't there. Yes, you can work with Poser offline, but you need to periodically connect to the internet to keep the activation going. And if you decide not to connect to the internet and let it expire, well then, that's YOUR choice.

gate posted at 5:58PM Thu, 17 October 2019 - #4367482

Glitterati3D posted at 10:48PM Thu, 17 October 2019 - #4367480

gate posted at 4:41PM Thu, 17 October 2019 - #4367477

Smith micro did not have to state that it needs a Internet connection! As it never would of been deactivated if the user was not connected or had it fire-walled.

Not true. If you didn't get a permanent license, Poser would shut down permanently if it couldn't communicate with the server. PP2014GD and Poser 11.

This hasn't changed from SM - only the duration between "phone home" sessions has changed.

Well then it sure is strange that I use a firewalled and blocked Poser 11.1 since the beginning without that I made a Permanent Licence as my Poser never connected to the servers after activation .... ( Must be a Glitch )

Still the Info given is Miss-leading and does not state anywhere the conditions about having to be connected or do you think that a customer first goes to these forums to be able to check that it needs Periodic activation else Poser goes Puff ???

I say again, nothing has changed except the duration of the phone home cycle.

Your saying otherwise does not make it so.

I got a permanent license, at the encouragement of SM, because I lived in an RV for a while traveling and did not have a reliable internet connection. They told me it would eventually become unusable unless I did so.

And now how would a customer Know ? by buying the software and then suddenly having a locked Poser ? well if just having a project and will have to figure out what is going on will sure not make happy at all , that user like many will have to submit a ticket and then he will be confronted with non written facts. this seems to be a contract that the seller of the software can just Interpreter the way he feels ( Like ... Oh Well we shut em down and then they have to buy a new Licence as it was not written anywhere )

Do you really think that with such conditions a School or a little enterprise would start off... and also make further Investments by buying Model expansions ? Would You ?

SM gave clear and gives clear information about the software but it seems that Bondware does not need to do so I mean it is not SM that states that Poser can be activated Offline it is Bondware ! Is it True or is it not True that it can be activated Offline?

I think a reasonable person would think it requires online activation, that is fine. Most programs require some type of basic registration. I also think a reasonable person, unless otherwise informed that I need to be online from time to time, would believe that it would work fine offline. Forever.

I do not remember being informed that I needed an internet connection for continued use of Poser. Even if it's every once in a while, then I should be informed. Were any of you informed of this requirement?

Moreover, the basic question I asked a while ago still hasn't been answered.

Why do we need to phone home at all, after the initial registration?

Don't you think that it would be much easier if Bondware would write the system requirements correctly ? by letting customers know how long the Periods are, what options there would be and if only Online then state it that way ect. actually a very simple thing , and it would save them allot of tickets and upset customers.

Or are you really the meaning that there is no need at all to give any Information about what you Purchase ? A customer is also protected in good Faith about what is sold and what the merchant told him about the product.

quietrob posted at 7:18PM Thu, 17 October 2019 - #4367494

I do not remember being informed that I needed an internet connection for continued use of Poser. Even if it's every once in a while, then I should be informed. Were any of you informed of this requirement?

Moreover, the basic question I asked a while ago still hasn't been answered.

Why do we need to phone home at all, after the initial registration?

We were informed that the phone home requirement was part of PP2014GD and Poser 11 by SM. Now, the PP2014GD requirement was not advised up front by them. It was only made public when copies of the software got bricked on offline computers. It was only then that SM owned up to the phone home requirement.

But it was a part of the system requirements list in all copies of Poser 11 on release.

Your last question has to be addressed to Bondware. I can't answer it and quite frankly, won't defend it.

I am just saying we knew going in...........

Glitterati3D posted at 5:16PM Thu, 17 October 2019 - #4367496

quietrob posted at 7:18PM Thu, 17 October 2019 - #4367494

Why do we need to phone home at all, after the initial registration?

We were informed that the phone home requirement was part of PP2014GD and Poser 11 by SM. Now, the PP2014GD requirement was not advised up front by them. It was only made public when copies of the software got bricked on offline computers. It was only then that SM owned up to the phone home requirement.

But it was a part of the system requirements list in all copies of Poser 11 on release.

Your last question has to be addressed to Bondware. I can't answer it and quite frankly, won't defend it.

I am just saying we knew going in...........

There is a chance it was in some documentation. I am tempted to say fine print but really I just wanted to get into Poser 11. Who read's that stuff? Even back in the day PP2014GD all act shocked that their software was being forced to call headquarters.

Anyway, I'll check the manual. I am sure you are right, Gliteratti, I didn't know but I suppose I should've.

Okay. Let's move forward. I have a friend who goes without an internet connection for MONTHS at a time. I may be without a connection as well. I think the next update should include, 1) Validate S/N. 2) Remove Check in or 3) Make the license permanent for those with Validated S/N's. Bondware! Can you hear me now?

Given that an awful lot of people have queried what has been one of SM's most detested Poser features which is not only being perpetuated by Bondware but has also been increased in frequency should answer your question. Yes! They probably can hear you and no, they are not listening. Had they been doing so we would not have needed this latest thread https://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/?thread_id=2938482 which simply repeats what has already common knowledge, instead of answering with openess and honesty about their intentions regarding this license debacle. Instead, we are left with speculation from other members (with all due respect to them) who, at the end of the day, are not privy to the inner workings of Bondwares corporate strategy. I must admit when Bondware announced their acquisition of Poser I saw it as a positive step in reviving the fortunes of my favourite 3D program. Now, I'm very much afraid, it's more along the lines of, "meet the new boss, same as the old boss" closely followed with a healthy dose of, "I'll believe it when I see it!". Perhaps Bondware should also bear in mind while planning the next version (if any) that those people they are alienating now with their blanket silence are the very same people they will be expecting to buy it!

Mythocentric posted at 10:02AM Fri, 25 October 2019 - #4368240

Given that an awful lot of people have queried what has been one of SM's most detested Poser features which is not only being perpetuated by Bondware but has also been increased in frequency should answer your question. Yes! They probably can hear you and no, they are not listening. Had they been doing so we would not have needed this latest thread https://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/?thread_id=2938482 which simply repeats what has already common knowledge, instead of answering with openess and honesty about their intentions regarding this license debacle. Instead, we are left with speculation from other members (with all due respect to them) who, at the end of the day, are not privy to the inner workings of Bondwares corporate strategy. I must admit when Bondware announced their acquisition of Poser I saw it as a positive step in reviving the fortunes of my favourite 3D program. Now, I'm very much afraid, it's more along the lines of, "meet the new boss, same as the old boss" closely followed with a healthy dose of, "I'll believe it when I see it!". Perhaps Bondware should also bear in mind while planning the next version (if any) that those people they are alienating now with their blanket silence are the very same people they will be expecting to buy it!

I haven't noticed any blanket silence from Bondware.

Surprise, surprise! A response from EClark1894. Perhaps then, in your infinite wisdom, you would like to direct us to the relevant posts in which Jenn Blake, or indeed, anyone from Bondware has addressed the many queries from users about not only the continuation of SM's detested 'phone-home' but has, in fact, increased the frequency to every nine days or so. I was going to follow that with, I await your reply with bated breath but I won't. What I will say is that this is Renderosity which has a much larger membership than Hivewire where this sort of snide remark (as usual never backed up by any evidence to the contrary) from you perhaps has more effect. In fact, that's why I blocked you over at Hivewire (and now, here!). As others have said elsewhere, and with which I agree (In a thread incidentally which you started https://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/?thread_id=2938932) Yes, you do supply some very useful information which is to be applauded. Unfortunately, you also have a tendency to let your ego lead you into believing that yours is the only opinion that counts. That has also been pointed out by other people elsewhere so please accept the fact that yours is just one of many opinions and try and refrain from making silly little remarks without at least trying to back them up with facts. That just makes you a troll.

I would point out to everyone that I have the greatest respect for the forum at Hivewire and Hivewire in particular. Chris and Lisa do a great job over there and I would advise anyone interested to visit

Whoa, now, do we have to turn all threads into whose...whatever it is better, please? Can we just all talk about, I don't know, the hope that after four months of ownership Bondware will now have time to address all issues in a comprehensive article/post so communication is to the satisfaction of all of those who measure such things with the immediate need of our age?

slinks back to her renders

Mythocentric posted at 3:00AM Sat, 26 October 2019 - #4368339

Surprise, surprise! A response from EClark1894. Perhaps then, in your infinite wisdom, you would like to direct us to the relevant posts in which Jenn Blake, or indeed, anyone from Bondware has addressed the many queries from users about not only the continuation of SM's detested 'phone-home' but has, in fact, increased the frequency to every nine days or so. I was going to follow that with, I await your reply with bated breath but I won't. What I will say is that this is Renderosity which has a much larger membership than Hivewire where this sort of snide remark (as usual never backed up by any evidence to the contrary) from you perhaps has more effect. In fact, that's why I blocked you over at Hivewire (and now, here!). As others have said elsewhere, and with which I agree (In a thread incidentally which you started https://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/?thread_id=2938932) Yes, you do supply some very useful information which is to be applauded. Unfortunately, you also have a tendency to let your ego lead you into believing that yours is the only opinion that counts. That has also been pointed out by other people elsewhere so please accept the fact that yours is just one of many opinions and try and refrain from making silly little remarks without at least trying to back them up with facts. That just makes you a troll.

Hmm, a personal shot at me. If you truly believe that, then perhaps I have been posting to this forum for too much. I thought I was helping. I'll stop, as I have a website of my own to deal with.

Hi Rhia474. Apologies if I came across as acerbic but to be honest I have had previous experience of our friend's snide one-liners designed to stifle debate. In fact, he is one of the reasons I have stopped posting over at Hivewire. I would be more than happy to take part in any debate conducted in a reasonable manner by all parties but I certainly don't intend to tolerate being driven away from one forum only to put up with the same stupid comments from one of the people responsible for that decision. As to your other point, I would like to make my position clear on Poser and its new owner in the hope that no one will be able to further misinterpret my concerns which are the actions Bondware have taken re the handling of the licencing issues. When Poser was purchased by Bondware I, like many others was delighted that we, at last, had an owner capable of reviving its fortunes and taking the program forward as it deserves. I still believe that this was a good move for all concerned, buyers and owners alike. However, that purchase came with impediments in the form of SM's unfortunate decision to impose its 'phone-home' feature which I believe was originally applied with the intention of putting certain versions of Poser on a subscription-only basis. That feature has been perpetuated and inherited by Bondware. Not an ideal situation and clearly a feature which is detested by many as countless posts here can attest both long before and after Bondwares purchase. That situation is further exacerbated when that feature is not only retained but extended from approximately once a month to every nine days with the added threat of purchasers losing access to the program they have purchased if they do not comply. I would remind you that we are talking about a permanent license here and that has a meaning in legal terms, in fact, at some point in the future could result in a legal challenge being mounted. (I should insert at this point that this is something I have verified with my lawyers, not with the intention of doing so but as a hypothetical test in order to be sure of my facts!). That's certainly not an ideal given that Poser has taken a considerable battering from various people, including to my regret, people within the Poser community itself. I am certain that in the hands of Bondware Poser does/could have a better future than the recent past would otherwise indicate. However, It does not help Posers cause when Bondware remain silent in response to so many queries about a feature which has caused such contention in the past and is leading to a build-up of anger in the present. As you rightly point out, Bondware has been in ownership for four months now so isn't that plenty of time not only to respond to the licensing problems or even acknowledge that a lot of people have justifiable concerns about it? In my opinion, I think it is for the simple reason that ignoring it causes unnecessary problems which could be easily solved with a little more openness on Bondwares behalf. Poser does not need that sort of bad publicity and as I stated before, the people they are alienating now are the same people they will be expecting to pay out for the next version of Poser. So yes, that is my opinion and I am quite willing to debate it openly and reasonably. Just don't expect me to shut up just because someone decides a snide one-liner constitutes a reasoned response! Respect!

Mythocentric posted at 6:16AM Sat, 26 October 2019 - #4368349

Hi Rhia474.

"... However, that purchase came with impediments in the form of SM's unfortunate decision to impose its 'phone-home' feature which I believe was originally applied with the intention of putting certain versions of Poser on a subscription-only basis. That feature has been perpetuated and inherited by Bondware. Not an ideal situation and clearly a feature which is detested by many as countless posts here can attest both long before and after Bondwares purchase. That situation is further exacerbated when that feature is not only retained but extended from approximately once a month to every nine days with the added threat of purchasers losing access to the program they have purchased if they do not comply. I would remind you that we are talking about a permanent license here and that has a meaning in legal terms, in fact, at some point in the future could result in a legal challenge being mounted. (I should insert at this point that this is something I have verified with my lawyers, not with the intention of doing so but as a hypothetical test in order to be sure of my facts!) ..."

Agreed. In addition, you'd think that the existence of a viable alternative that is not crippled by phone home would lend itself to a little "eye opening" on the part of the new owners. I do not use any Adobe products newer than CS6 (the last non phone home), I won't use Substance for the same reason. I don't care what app it is nor how much I love it, if they go "subscription" (i.e., analyzing, location, perusing your personal computer, collecting personal data etc., the truth of it) I'm out. Period.

Just a thought: has it occurred to anyone that the phone home feature is maybe taking time to detangle from the code? I am not a programmer, but I know what a mess Poser's code is with the owner changes, 3rd party room additions etc. maybe 4 months since the acquisition was not enough time to get it out in a manner that does not damage something else?

I would, though, agree on the communications lacking. I requested a few times that for heaven's sake at least add 'new home of Poser' to their main page so people don't see nothing but DAZ content on the fist landing here. I was assured something is being worked on, but official communication about such things would be nice, especially if it was done in a way that reaches a lot of people.

Mythocentric posted at 1:52PM Sat, 26 October 2019 - #4368349

Hi Rhia474. Apologies if I came across as acerbic but to be honest I have had previous experience of our friend's snide one-liners designed to stifle debate. In fact, he is one of the reasons I have stopped posting over at Hivewire. I would be more than happy to take part in any debate conducted in a reasonable manner by all parties but I certainly don't intend to tolerate being driven away from one forum only to put up with the same stupid comments from one of the people responsible for that decision.

I wasn't going to say anything, but to be honest, all I do at Hivewire is ask questions or post WIP screenshots. How is that being snide? For that matter, what was snide about not noticing any "blanket" silence on Bondware's part? However, trust me, if I'm ever snide to you, without a doubt, you'll know it.

@EClark1894

Let it go ;)

Rhia474 posted at 7:34PM Sat, 26 October 2019 - #4368376

Just a thought: has it occurred to anyone that the phone home feature is maybe taking time to detangle from the code? I am not a programmer, but I know what a mess Poser's code is with the owner changes, 3rd party room additions etc. maybe 4 months since the acquisition was not enough time to get it out in a manner that does not damage something else?

I would, though, agree on the communications lacking. I requested a few times that for heaven's sake at least add 'new home of Poser' to their main page so people don't see nothing but DAZ content on the fist landing here. I was assured something is being worked on, but official communication about such things would be nice, especially if it was done in a way that reaches a lot of people.

I have seen that put forward as a possible reason elsewhere Rhia474. I'm not a programmer either so I leave that to the people who are. However, that said does a presumably experienced coder find it so difficult to trace the 'guilty' code? Now admittedly, many people who have had firsthand experience of IT bods would instantly reply in the affirmative, but, joking aside, it doesn't explain why Bondware has been able to take that code and change it from SM's monthly 'phone-home' informing the user that they needed to reactivate their license to a thrice-monthly requirement to 'phone-home' to avoid losing their lease. Note that word 'lease'. That's one of the points which was emphasized by my lawyer friend. It could be argued that a simple continuation of SM's monthly activation requirement could have been allowed under the 'custom and practice' rules giving Bondware time to install their own system. However, what has happened is that Bondware has changed the rules. More importantly, they have changed them after the fact. In brief, we purchased Poser (from Bondware) on the basis that we were buying a permanent license. SM's backdoor introduction of the monthly activation notwithstanding. Now we are being told that unless we 'phone-home' every nine days or so we will lose our lease. The actual wording is 'renew your lease'. The fact that it appears on a pop-up window warning you to phone-home constitutes a statement of policy (implied) because it is a notification from the owners, Bondware and that makes it a statement of intent by Bondware. The implication is clear. Bondware has either changed the rules without the advanced notification they are required to give with regards to purchase and the form that purchase will take regarding terms and conditions after the purchase has been made (without consent) or somewhere along the way some coder has reached a point where they have decided, "that'll do". (The equivalent of an electrician poking the wires with his finger to find out which is the live one!) and Bondware has simply decided to run with it. That is just storing up a whole lot of trouble for the future and its something which is potentially liable to turn on its owners big time. Not exactly good business practice from a company who appears to want to reverse Posers fortunes and tun it into a viable and successful part of the 3D community. Remember also that this is with regard to a program which has already experienced a whole load of grief due to the previous owners ill-fated handling and their underestimation of the great regard with which Poser owners view it! That's why I view Bondwares blanket silence on the matter as something to deeply regret. As things stand, that silence is speaking volumes and creates a vacuum which is being filled with speculation and no small amount of misinformation together with the sort of glib answers like 'the answer to that is above my pay grade' and 'maybe it will be different in the next version of Poser!' which serve no purpose other than to further exacerbate an already fraught situation. The only people who can address that are Bondware and its well past time they stepped up to the plate of the many people whose concerns they have so far chosen to ignore! Rant over! Respect!

Quick edit: That last line should read, The only people who can address that are Bondware and its well past time they stepped up to the plate and addressed the legitimate concerns of the people they have so far chosen to ignore! Rant over! Respect!

Unfortunately, there seems to be a time limit on editing which I appear to have exceeded. Apologies!

I have been in the software business for close to 40 years. A Poser user since version 2. Renderosity since it was created. After this 11.2 disaster, I may be done with this product.

Mythocentric posted at 4:21AM Fri, 01 November 2019 - #4368421

Quick edit: That last line should read, The only people who can address that are Bondware and its well past time they stepped up to the plate and addressed the legitimate concerns of the people they have so far chosen to ignore! Rant over! Respect!

Unfortunately, there seems to be a time limit on editing which I appear to have exceeded. Apologies!

Actually, your edit got through! I read your entire rant. I agree. Respect to the Mytho.

3dCritter

What "disaster"? I'm sure the vast majority of users don't recognise any disaster and found the update easy to install with no problems, those who previously had poser 11 standard got a free update to pro, plus loads of free extra content.

Ok, I understand that some people have issues with the phone home situation, but this was something that was introduced in previous poser versions, 2014 game dev and poser 11, the only difference being that a permanent activation is not available, but longer activations can be requested.

Unfortunately a number of people seem to prefer to come on the forums to rant rather than have problems solved or at least ameliorated. For example on another board someone came on ranting how stupid Rendo was when if they had read the previous thread, which must have been the top thread when they wrote theirs, they would have had the answer about updating.

Ok my rant over, I just wish people could get behind poser, rather than being so negative all the time.

Nails60 posted at 12:21PM Fri, 01 November 2019 - #4368856

3dCritter

What "disaster"? I'm sure the vast majority of users don't recognise any disaster and found the update easy to install with no problems, those who previously had poser 11 standard got a free update to pro, plus loads of free extra content.

Same here. Had a permanent licence from SM, downloaded poser 11.2 as per instructions, and everything smooth as butter.

On a Mac, by the way, so it might possibly be a Windows glitch they're having. But I'll check the phonehome thing on this laptop by switching the WiFi off each time I use Poser from now on and see what happens.

OK! Sit back and think for a while. There's no problem with the updates, and incidentally A_Sunbeam, those who previously had Poser 11 did NOT get a free update to Poser Pro, myself included. Poser 11 users had to purchase an upgrade at $99 after which the upgrade to Poser Pro 11.2 was free as it was for everyone else.

3DCritter: Yes, you had a permanent license from SM, albeit one which required you to 'phone-home' every month which was a result of SM's ill-fated attempt to move Poser onto a subscription basis, and I'm sure you remember the controversy that caused, and incidentally started the downhill slide for Poser as far as SM were concerned. Enter Renderosity and suddenly things are looking much brighter. Until, that is you realise that their new license system is even worse than the old one because now, instead of having to contact the server to re-activate your license you are being told to contact the server to renew your lease three times a month in addition to which, if statements on the Daz forum are to be believed, Renderosity have removed the permanent license feature. Now I'm taking statements like that with a pinch of salt for now, but I have to ask, why did I have to read that on the Daz forum and not here? The simple answer is because no one with any authority here is talking, and supplying everyone with the information we need to clear the matter up. Instead we being told to 'show some patience' because they are all excited about how hunky-dory Poser 12's going to be. Do you honestly think thats true when no one is willing to explain why they have imposed a license regime which is even worse than the one which caused so much trouble in the first place? After all, unless there is a great seachange in Renderosity's thinking thats exactly the same license they'll impose on Poser 12. Thats what people are worried about. The rest of it is just hot air from those who think their opinions count more the the rest!

Mythocentric. I believe your first comment to be factually incorrect. Rendo made it clear that all users of poser 2014game dev, poser11 and poser 11 pro users, for instance see this thread

https://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/?thread_id=2938482

I'm not doubting your word that you paid to upgrade, just saying there was no need to once the 11.2 upgrade was released.

Poser 11, Poser Pro 11 and Poser 2014 Game Dev updates to Poser 11.2 were free.

https://www.renderosity.com/the-day-has-come-poser-pro-11-2-update-has-been-released-cms-21781

Please try to remain factually correct. If you had those 3 versions, it cost nothing to update--unless of course, you chose to pay. If you updated from an earlier version, it was your choice to upgrade, and $99 was a significantly reduced price compared to what it cost me when Poser 11 Pro came out originally and I upgraded my Poser 2014.

If you have Poser 2014 Game Dev, Poser 11, and Poser Pro 11, this update will convert your Poser to Poser Pro 11.2 at no additional cost.

If you have Poser 10 or below you are not required to update, but you can upgrade for $99.

Rhia474 posted at 4:41AM Sat, 02 November 2019 - #4368376

Just a thought: has it occurred to anyone that the phone home feature is maybe taking time to detangle from the code? I am not a programmer, but I know what a mess Poser's code is with the owner changes, 3rd party room additions etc. maybe 4 months since the acquisition was not enough time to get it out in a manner that does not damage something else?

Well - they succeeded in making it call home more often ... so I think they do know where that piece of code is, as they did change it.

I think that allot of members loose the Point of the worries , actually there would not be an issue on how a program needs to be activated, but if there is a Kill switch in a Program then people get uncomfortable. if it were just a other creation Program there is less to worry as files you mostly use can be shared between many . So if one goes down you can use another. In the case of Poser there is a Huge Investment issue from 3rd Party creators who suddenly depend on the fact that the Poser owner can do with the Investments made just as they wish . The Packages you buy are not supported by any other Program without conversion in Poser. This is allot of Power if one has to worry that one morning all he has bought goes down the drain because the Licence is not renewed.

Like said Bondware does not give a darn about these worries just by saying give it time and have no worries ... the issue is not resolved this way ( Smith micro sure had the online activator but there was a backdoor with the Manual and the Permanent licence to make sure that Poser does not stop working ... the Manual is still active Btw. ) Bondware removed all these options no backdoor no Permanent licence . and this is the Point that makes Costumers and Creators worry to loose all the Investments .... or could in case of a shutdown the user ask for a refund of every Poser model at Renderosity to minimize the loss in such a case?

the way it is set up now is a big responsibility and there is a big risc of loss if they would loose access to there investments. I have alone over 1000 own creations from the past 4 years. With the thought that if there is an issue with that licence I could loose it all makes me feel really uncomfortable it even makes my site depend on this licencing system !!! I have my options as every Poser I possess has no call home and no kill switch this allows me to continue , newcomers will not have that options.

Compared with Daz studio once you have installed that Program there is nothing to be worried about you can even reinstall it with no worries in case of a crash or a new Computer! Yo do not have to worry that you could loose access to your Purchases of models or creations whilst there is no kill switch built in. So where do you think Future costumers and creators will go ? The actual Bondware model sure seems to be Doomed the way it is set up!

@ Kerya they sure have the full access to that code as they can change it , change the time of call home , make it Permanent etc. they could remove the Manual activation, so the setup is clearly made on purpose, there is no excuse ! It is easy to Point the finger to Smith micro but at this point it is not possible any longer . it is clearly the Bondware model

Rhia474 posted at 10:46PM Sat, 02 November 2019 - #4368936

Poser 11, Poser Pro 11 and Poser 2014 Game Dev updates to Poser 11.2 were free.

https://www.renderosity.com/the-day-has-come-poser-pro-11-2-update-has-been-released-cms-21781

Please try to remain factually correct. If you had those 3 versions, it cost nothing to update--unless of course, you chose to pay. If you updated from an earlier version, it was your choice to upgrade, and $99 was a significantly reduced price compared to what it cost me when Poser 11 Pro came out originally and I upgraded my Poser 2014.

If you have Poser 2014 Game Dev, Poser 11, and Poser Pro 11, this update will convert your Poser to Poser Pro 11.2 at no additional cost.

If you have Poser 10 or below you are not required to update, but you can upgrade for $99.

Curiouser and curiouser! I’m glad you have decided to opt for factual correctness Rhia474 because what you have effectively told us is that Renderosity have taken payment for something people didn’t need to pay for! Let’s have a look at some facts:

After the buyout Renderosity released an offer to upgrade to Poser Pro 11 for $99 or purchase it for $199 if they didn’t already own any version of Poser. Nowhere in that offer did it state that Poser 11 would be upgraded free, although I’m sure that if it did you would be happy to point out the relevant statement saying that it did. In fact Poser 11 was not actually included in that initial upgrade offer. The result of queries from users with regards to Poser 11 lead Renderosity to change that initial offer of upgrade very quickly to include Poser 11 at the same price of $99. Again at no point in that offer did Renderosity point out that it was unnecessary for users to actually pay for that upgrade and again, I and many others would be grateful if you would refer us to the relevant statement in that upgrade offer! Sometime after that Renderosity released an update to change the terms of their license and corrects some minor bugs. This was the update resulting in Poser Pro 11.2. As this was well after the fact of the initial upgrades which I and many others paid for I am sure that they will be as surprised as myself to learn that we ‘volunteered’ to pay for something we didn’t need to and that Renderosity have knowingly taken payment for something we didn’t need to pay for! If that is indeed the case Renderosity have more questions to answer than what increasingly appears to be their ‘subscription by stealth’ licensing system. In all honesty, I believe you should think very carefully before appointing yourself as the unofficial spokesman for the people who should be addressing this matter and are steadfastly avoiding doing so. Meanwhile, I shall be be talking to my lawyers again about recovering the money I paid for something I didn’t need to or at least, trying to get an answer as to why Renderosity took payment for something they neglected to inform us was not actually necessary!

I'm afraid yours is a very spurious argument. As stated once poser 11.2 was released the upgrade was free. There is also a lot of content from the market place that is now free..At what point should Rendo have informed everybody that these items were to become free?

The statement you made that you were had to upgrade to poser pro and then the upgrade was free was untrue. There was no requirement to upgrade to poser pro to get the upgrade once released..

I'm not saying you don't have a valid argument that Rendo should have informed people that they would be getting the upgrade free, just that your statement was factually incorrect, there was no need to upgrade before getting the free upgrade. Anyone with poser 11 standard at the time 11.2 was released got a free upgrade.

Nails60 posted at 1:04PM Sun, 03 November 2019 - #4369020

I'm afraid yours is a very spurious argument. As stated once poser 11.2 was released the upgrade was free. There is also a lot of content from the market place that is now free..At what point should Rendo have informed everybody that these items were to become free?

The statement you made that you were had to upgrade to poser pro and then the upgrade was free was untrue. There was no requirement to upgrade to poser pro to get the upgrade once released..

I'm not saying you don't have a valid argument that Rendo should have informed people that they would be getting the upgrade free, just that your statement was factually incorrect, there was no need to upgrade before getting the free upgrade. Anyone with poser 11 standard at the time 11.2 was released got a free upgrade.

It's been said several times that the update was made primarily for two reasons, to "rebrand" Poser as a Bondware product, and to get everybody onto the same license server. I don't even think Bondware had it's Poser Dev team completely in place at that point.

The added content was an afterthought, and a gift from vendors.

I've altered the prefs so that Poser no longer checks for updates.

I will run Poser offline all November and see if it complains about not being able to connect to whatever.

By which time, with any luck, the next patch will be available; 11.2.307 was the last they issued.

A_Sunbeam posted at 3:36PM Thu, 14 November 2019 - #4369071

I've altered the prefs so that Poser no longer checks for updates.

I will run Poser offline all November and see if it complains about not being able to connect to whatever.

Update: Macbook still offine. Opened Poser just now and got the notice attached ... so it does phone home. Despite the message as soon as I switched the WiFi back on and clicked on poser it opened as normal. Just thought you'd like to know!

When DAZ introduced DRM products a couple of years ago there was similar back and forth about it. What you have to realize though is very few people use forums, so comments here are not significant. What was significant at DAZ is they couldn't sell DRM products. And when they figured that out, they stopped trying. They never admitted they were wrong, nobody cared anyway, but they started out saying that any DRM product would have the DRM removed after one year, and at that point there was no new DRM product being offered.

Rendo wants to sell you Poser. 11.2 was a bridge product, leaving all the other changes all they were trying to do is move from Smith Micros servers to theirs. There is going to be a next major Poser release. If it still phones home I think you can figure out the answer.

actually never had a announcement from smith micro that it would have to prolong a lease, I believe it was there plan to do it but it never happen so now it seems that Bondware took the idea over LOL.

Honestly in all the years when smith micro owned Poser there has never been a message to activate Poser again this just occurred since the take over so it sure is a strange thing that happen . meanwhile I do not care any longer just sit on the 11.1 version with permanent licence and no call home anymore. if there are further plans that Bondware wants to keep a kill switch call home or a lease well then they can keep it. would not spend a dime on such a setup as Poser basically is to use the models made for it that are sold, so if one needs to worry about hes purchases that depend on that system it would be a no go!

@ sunbeam it seems that this call home does not hold the mentioned period but seeing from your post dates just about 10 day's until it calls back home and might be even less. I really start wondering what else they set up into poser to check on your habits, and I would not wonder if one day you get pop up adds like google does in the browser with the great idea that customers know whats new in the store

It might still be calling the Smith Micro Server which doesn't recognize it, since the switch over.

EClark1894 posted at 11:54PM Thu, 14 November 2019 - #4370226

It might still be calling the Smith Micro Server which doesn't recognize it, since the switch over.

A_Sunbeam stated he has 11.2.307 ... which means Bondware.

He also stated that he altered the prefs. I'm just suggesting that it can't find the server it's supposed to call, so it's switched back to the default, which Poser seems to love to do.